Metaphor-processing Area Of The Brain Identified

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Metaphor-processing Area Of The Brain Identified Reposted from old

#1 Guest_StrungOutOnLifeUnlogged_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:31 PM

From New Scientist:
Metaphor-processing area of the brain identified

16 April 2005
From New Scientist Print Edition. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.

IS THERE a place in the brain where metaphors are understood? A study of patients with localised brain damage suggests there is.

Vilayanur Ramachandran and his colleagues at the University of California at San Diego were intrigued by four patients who were mentally lucid, fluent in English and highly intelligent, but could not understand proverbs.

When one of the patients was asked to explain the adage "all that glitters is not gold", for instance, he completely missed the metaphorical angle, replying that people should be careful when buying jewellery.

All the patients had damage to part of the brain called the left angular gyrus. This lies at the intersection of the brain's temporal, parietal and occipital lobes, which process tactile, auditory and visual information respectively. The findings were presented at a meeting of the Cognitive Neuroscience Society this week in New York.

This post has been edited by NavySurya: 27 May 2005 - 04:13 PM

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#2 Guest_StrungOutOnLifeUnlogged_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:38 PM

Lyssie, on Apr 18, 2005, 12:23 PM, said:

"All that glitters is not gold"?

What metaphorical angle? Being careful when buying jewlery is a perfectly logical explanation to that.

What's the metaphorical angle? Anybody?

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#3 Guest_StrungOutOnLifeUnlogged_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:41 PM

Jerod Poore, on Apr 18, 2005, 2:09 PM, said:

Lyssie, on Apr 18, 2005, 12:23 PM, said:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually jewlery would be a bit of a metaphor, because the expression traces back to discerning pyrite (fools' gold) from the real thing. Although with electrum and other tricks it can relate well to jewlery.

The meaning of the expression, though, is that you can't take things at face value based on appearances alone. Especially things as you want them to be. Something NTs frequently do

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#4 Guest_StrungOutOnLifeUnlogged_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:44 PM

pigsaflyin, on Apr 18, 2005, 2:22 PM, said:

On faith, I'm presuming you're not kidding on this one.

"All that glitters is not gold" as a metaphor is a warning against judging any thing, situation, person, etc. based on it's initial, superficial appeal:

"Just because she's pretty doesn't mean she's nice", for example, is a metaphorical equivalent to "All that glitters is not gold".

A similar maxim is "Don't judge a book by it's cover", a caution against making any judgement, positive or negative or neutral, about things, situations or people based on first impressions:

"I really liked that car and thought I might buy it, until I looked under the hood and saw the engine covered in oil."...or..."When I first saw him I was really not attracted to him, but after talking to him I find him really apealing."

Proverbs and maxims are multi-purpose analogies in phrase form, used to communicate/teach "common sense" ideals.

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#5 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:47 PM

Lyssie, on Apr 18, 2005, 03:02pm, said:

pigsaflyin, on Apr 18 2005, 02:22 PM, said:

Proverbs and maxims are multi-purpose analogies in phrase form, used to communicate/teach "common sense" ideals.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Except that they don't mean anything outside their original context. The thing talked about gold. Therefore, it applies to gold, and nothing else.

What is this asinine concept all about? Figurative speech, metaphors, proverbs - jesus christ, why the hell can't you people SAY WHAT YOU MEAN?

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#6 Guest_StrungOutOnLifeUnlogged_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:52 PM

StrungOutOnLife, on Apr 18, 2005, 3:49 PM, said:

Lyssie, on Apr 18, 2005, 3:02pm, said:

Except that they don't mean anything outside their original context. The thing talked about gold. Therefore, it applies to gold, and nothing else.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, it is applied to A LOT of other things besides gold. According to this page,

Quote

The saying all that glitters is not gold means that simply because something may appear priceless, pleasing or pretty, it's no sign that without a doubt it will be worth having once its true nature has been discovered. In other words don't rely on the superficial. The proverb has been around a long time in a mixture of forms; akin to the Latin: Non omne quod nitet aurum est or `Not all that shines is gold.'

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#7 Guest_StrungOutOnLifeUnlogged_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:56 PM

Kassiane, on Apr 18, 2005, 4:05 PM, said:

pigsaflyin, on Apr 18, 2005, 2:22 PM, said:

On faith, I'm presuming you're not kidding on this one.
<snip>
Proverbs and maxims are multi-purpose analogies in phrase form, used to communicate/teach "common sense" ideals.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but...they dont make sense outside their very literal interpretation.

Hell, even WITHIN their literal interpretation I cant make any sense of them half the time.

WHY do people insist on making poor innocent words say things other than what they say?

Kassiane

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#8 Guest_StrungOutOnLifeUnlogged_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 03:59 PM

Almighty Llama Mimi, on Apr 18, 2005, 4:09 Pm, said:

What??? I thought it meant that money isn't everything, other things are good, too. Dammit. Why don't they explain these things to people?

(edit: just saw this on the front page. that proverb in paritcular doesn't make any fucking sense. i hate that proverb)

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#9 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 04:03 PM

StrungOutOnLife, on Apr 18, 2005, 04:16 PM, said:

Almighty Llama Mimi, on Apr 18, 2005, 4:09 PM, said:

(edit: just saw this on the front page. that proverb in paritcular doesn't make any fucking sense. i hate that proverb)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do, too; it sounds like gold never, ever glitters.

StrungOutOnLife
*who prefers the Latin version for that reason*

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#10 Guest_StrungOutOnLifeUnlogged_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 04:06 PM

pigsaflyin, on Apr 19, 2005, 9:19 PM, said:

Personally, I try to avoid using them. They have been, however, a tradition in school children's education for a couple of hundred years, at least.

"Killing two birds with one stone (read: achieving two objectives through a single effort).", as it were - having children sumultaneouly learn to write and spell while memorizing the popular proverbs and maxims of the time.

Love 'em or hate 'em, they're probably here to stay. Even Aesop's fables are still around after 2000 years or so, give or take - and his "morals" are applied as maxims to this day.

Might be an interesting exercise to try and come up with some proverbs/maxims of your own.

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#11 Guest_StrungOutOnLifeUnlogged_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 04:08 PM

goose, on Apr 19, 2005, 11:11 PM, said:

I failed a "Are You Crazy " test at the mental health clinic when I was 20.

One of the questions was, explain this metaphor:

"a rolling stone gathers no moss"

agh! I get it now, but really, if you haven't heard it before in context, how are you to guess what it means?

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#12 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 04:13 PM

syncope, on Apr 21, 2005, 7:42 PM, said:

StrungOutOnLife, on Apr 18, 2005, 4:16 PM, said:

I do, too; it sounds like gold never, ever glitters.

StrungOutOnLife
*who prefers the Latin version for that reason*
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

StrungOut, that is an interesting parse. It goes against the grain of English, however (there's a metaphor in there, which may or may not be to your taste): English is an SVO language, in which the subject comes first (i.e., "All that glitters"); then verb, then object. But there isn't a grammatical object here, merely a predicate (i.e., verb phrase). 'Glitters' is a verb, of course, but it is part of the nominal phrase "All that glitters", which means that it is strictly speaking referential, and refers to all those THINGS that glitter, including gold. "Is not gold" is the verb phrase, or predicate, and is best interpreted as a function which either can or can not be applied to however many objects you want your predicate to apply to. So the parsing which hews to the SVO line includes the noun 'gold', sure, but it's subordinated to a verb phrase, which means that it cannot function as the subject (RULE IN ENGLISH AND EVERY OTHER LANGUAGE AFAIK: only nominal *phrases* can function as subjects), hence can't be about gold, it's about all the glittering things, some of which are certainly gold, but by no means all.

Sorry if this sounds like standard English teachers' crap (most of whom can't teach English properly, btw): I am a teacher, and have some of the intellectual stigmata of my profession, besides the MI stuff.

syncope
*who gets passionate about very few things, but does get worked up over his native tongue, and is also jealous as fuck of those who know Latin*

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#13 StrungOutOnLife

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 02:53 PM

Actually, I don't know that much Latin.

Just because some of us can read and write and do a little math, doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe.
--Kurt Vonnegut, Hocus Pocus

Anyone who expects you to "snap out of it" is essentially asking you to perform your own brain surgery via telekinesis.
--Me

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#14 LunaRufina

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 04:11 PM

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"a rolling stone gathers no moss"

agh! I get it now, but really, if you haven't heard it before in context, how are you to guess what it means?

ok, you know what? I STILL don't fucking understand that.

What??

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#15 StrungOutOnLife

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 04:40 PM

This post has been edited by StrungOutOnLife: 02 June 2005 - 09:12 AM

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#16 LunaRufina

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 04:53 PM

Quote

In this saying, gathering moss is a good thing. That much I remember.

NO sense. At all.
..that really pisses me off, actually

If there has to be a goddamn saying, popularize confucious, in the least.

"He who travels..." [something wise and vague]

This post has been edited by NavySurya: 27 May 2005 - 04:55 PM

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#17 peeej

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 07:10 PM

well i got a third way, i don't agree with either of the interpretations.

something on the move doesn't get damp, covered over with green plant matter, and lost in the undergrowth.

so a rolling stone, or a person on the move, is someone who hasn't become stagnant, and their entire surface shines for all to see.

i seem to come up with a myriad of ways to interpret the same thing. it means i also might fail these stupid tests. whatever.
is there a condition in which someone can ONLY think in metaphor? i'm speaking english, but no one gets it. im obtuse, i've been told. symbols are better than literal for me sometimes, cause then there's no one meaning, and then it can't be misinterpreted or, er, the interpretation is never wrong.

when stuff is literal, i get it wrong quite a lot.

pj

ACK! remember the nifty little pop-up warn feature that is on the other board- comes up when you go to edit a post? It's mal-functioning.
Good news: I have fire-fox, and I have it set to save my ass in case I screw up.

So i didn't muck up your post.
Sorry sorry!
~navy~

This post has been edited by NavySurya: 27 May 2005 - 07:30 PM

PJ AND BANANA!

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#18 LunaRufina

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 07:31 PM

All I know is that i have had several conversations surrounding the topic of metaphors and they piss me off every time.
Grr. Some of them are REALLY out there- no one can explain why they mean what they mean.

example: "If you believe that, than I have a bridge to sell you"

right. I have heard this a few times. No one could exactly explain to me what it meant or where it comes from. It is in general implying that somone is being gullible. But... What the fuck does it MEAN?!

Nothing. no one fucking knows.
bullshit.

rant rant rant.
blah

~navy~

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#19 Maddy

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 07:34 PM

I always hated having to finish proverbs. I had creative differences with my teachers, which would result in low scores for me.

Examples:

A penny saved is ______. And I would write in "one more." or "not alot."

You can lead a horse to water _____. And I would write in "but not if they're stubborn."

I don't understand alot of them. Although I've learned to memorize what they're supposed to mean. Although the whole moss and rock one is a new one on me. I just don't care.

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