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L-Theanine for schizophrenia actually WORKS. i actually feel like i'm 14 again (the shit hit the fan when i was 15)


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#1 Überpolarbear

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 09:17 AM

Yeah.
i'm sure you dont really love me talking about L-Theanine because i have been going psycho about it in the last few weeks.
so, basicly, i had this psychotic symptom called hyperreflexivity. it felt like nothing is really REAL and every thing vanishes and gets destroyed when i close my eyes. spooky shit. i dont even want you to feel this way for 1 sec. the shit hit the fan when i was 15 and i was feeling worse and worse till now. i tried ALL atypical AP and a few typical AP. Including FUCKING CLOZAPINE and nothing helped.
until now.
200mg twice daily l-threanine did nothing at the beginning but after 6 days... BAM i'm myself againd after 13 FUCKING YEARS. pleaseb cross your fingers for me that it lasts forever. and the 6 day latency is interesting too. according to one of the studies i posted on my website (you can find the link in my signature) it takes 5-7 days for l-theanine to activate that c-ß1 or whatever gene in the brains. just a coincidence? i dont think so.

i totally encourage everyone with presistant schizophrenia to add this shit to his regimen. (after talking with your doc of course ;))

CHEEEEEEEEEEEEERZ
polar bear

Edited by Überpolarbear, 25 June 2010 - 09:20 AM.

"humor is therapy" (Viktor Frankl)
Diagnosis: [/size][/size]bipolar ultradian rapid cycling, schizophrenia NOS, being a pervert. Yes. this is bipolar. fuck the docs who say i'm schizo. ok maybe it's schizo, Clearly Schizoaffective disorder. Spooky shit!
meds: Lithium 675mg, valproic acid (generic depakote) 1200mg, Clozapine 300mg, Trazodone 50mg, Zyprexa 20mg, Carbamazepine 600mg, lamictal 50mg, valproate (generic depakote stuff) 1750mg Seroquel 600mg (soon to be 800 probably). Zyprexa 30mg, Solian (Amisulpride (AAP)) 600 mg, Lyrica 150mg, Topamax 150mg
, lamictal 25mg
 

 



#2 Stickler

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 10:08 PM

Just, like, don't go off your AP's, ok? but hey, if it helps, rock on...like I said earlier, it's supposed to be pretty innocuous as far as interactions/side/effects go.

I'm given to understand it helps with ADD a little...I may start taking it daily for, say, two weeks to see if it's focusing effects build over time or not...
If its' effects on me are as minor as they have been, I'm not sure it's worth continuing.

Putting the fun back in dysfunctional, every damn day. :cool: 


#3 Überpolarbear

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 12:26 PM

yeah i'm on zyprexa too. i'm not really going to stop that (but i may replace it with a different one). btw, the in the triel done in israel, they added l-Theanine to the ongoing treatment with an antipsychotic and i'm "copy-catting" that.
but there is a chance that i'm effectively NOT on zyprexa at all. i smoke HEAVILY, that means 55% less zyprexa in the blood, and i take carbamazepine, that means 50% less zyprexa in the blood. 50% +55% = 105%.... WTF. it's a paradox. how can you have more than 100% LESS of something in your blood serum? that defies logic ;)
my doc said he will check the zyprexa level on the next ap to see whether i'm flushing down 450bucks a month down the toilet.

btw: that you or other folks taking it feel no benefits dosent mean that it has no antipsychotic properties.
a non psychotic person would probably not feel better on invega or something and a non bipolar person (e.g. epileptics) wont feel any difference in their mood after taking depakote or tegretol.
maybe you have to BE psychotic to feel the benefits. or even maybe just some people with a particular rare form of psychosis feel benefits. what the hell, maybe it's just me. but for me it's a miracle drug.

Edited by Überpolarbear, 27 June 2010 - 12:39 PM.

"humor is therapy" (Viktor Frankl)
Diagnosis: [/size][/size]bipolar ultradian rapid cycling, schizophrenia NOS, being a pervert. Yes. this is bipolar. fuck the docs who say i'm schizo. ok maybe it's schizo, Clearly Schizoaffective disorder. Spooky shit!
meds: Lithium 675mg, valproic acid (generic depakote) 1200mg, Clozapine 300mg, Trazodone 50mg, Zyprexa 20mg, Carbamazepine 600mg, lamictal 50mg, valproate (generic depakote stuff) 1750mg Seroquel 600mg (soon to be 800 probably). Zyprexa 30mg, Solian (Amisulpride (AAP)) 600 mg, Lyrica 150mg, Topamax 150mg
, lamictal 25mg
 

 


#4 null0trooper

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:21 PM

but there is a chance that i'm effectively NOT on zyprexa at all. i smoke HEAVILY, that means 55% less zyprexa in the blood, and i take carbamazepine, that means 50% less zyprexa in the blood. 50% +55% = 105%.... WTF. it's a paradox. how can you have more than 100% LESS of something in your blood serum? that defies logic ;)


It's not a paradox, just poor math. A 50% reduction of something that's been reduced by 55% leaves: (1 - 0.55) * (1 - 0.5) = 0.225 or 22.5% of the original.

btw: that you or other folks taking it feel no benefits dosent mean that it has no antipsychotic properties.


Actually, yes it does mean that it has no antipsychotic properties. It's one thing to let people know you feel better taking it, it's another to bullshit people about what a medication or supplement actually is.

It could well be that you're experiencing the placebo effect - whether you want to hear that or not - or the stuff could be offsetting the effects of smoking (or the carbamazepine) on your Zyprexa levels. Or something else could be going on - but it's not an AP.

Proof once again that we are the only adventurers for whom the letters "AD&D" stand for "Attention Deficit Disorder" - Roy Greenhilt, Order of the Stick

Rule your own nation at Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game! Yes, I do waste spend a lot of time on it, especially the Viridian Entente's alliance boards.


#5 jarn

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:39 PM

Maybe your anti-psychotics haven't been working because you've been countering their efficacy through smoking and other meds?

Current meds: Saphris 25mg, Latuda 40mg, Lamotrigine 250mg, Pristiq 50mg, Ativan 1mg


#6 null0trooper

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:54 PM

Maybe your anti-psychotics haven't been working because you've been countering their efficacy through smoking and other meds?


I think he and his doctor know that - but smoking is damned hard to stop for schizophrenics. I think that's because it counters some of the nastier side effects of the APs, but I haven't read up enough to be sure on that.

Proof once again that we are the only adventurers for whom the letters "AD&D" stand for "Attention Deficit Disorder" - Roy Greenhilt, Order of the Stick

Rule your own nation at Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game! Yes, I do waste spend a lot of time on it, especially the Viridian Entente's alliance boards.


#7 jarn

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 09:58 PM

Oh, I'm not trying to suggest it would be easy to stop - I know it can be incredibly difficult. I was just wondering if though that maybe the anti-psychotics aren't the issue. Not that that would make quitting any easier, but that maybe it's something worth focusing on ;)

Current meds: Saphris 25mg, Latuda 40mg, Lamotrigine 250mg, Pristiq 50mg, Ativan 1mg


#8 Überpolarbear

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 03:08 PM

It could well be that you're experiencing the placebo effect - whether you want to hear that or not - or the stuff could be offsetting the effects of smoking (or the carbamazepine) on your Zyprexa levels. Or something else could be going on - but it's not an AP.


i'm not making this shit up. there have been a real double blind ramdomized placebo cotrolled study on this. and if you think i'm bullshitting people you may think whatever you want. i dont see the logic why i shouldnt want to get other schizophrenics to take this. there is the study with 60 patients and it's helping me really much. if that is called bullshitting, then yes. i make great use of my possibility to fucking bullshit people. chances are some other folks may benefit from my BULLSHITTING after all.
yeah you and your "it' not an AP". how can you know THAT? have you ever tried that? are you a pharmacologist or have you studied biotechnology? maybe you have done your very own double blind placepo controlled study and found out it's not effective? you even sound as if you have had my bloodwork results at hand and know well about my zyprexa level. you are making shit up about why i'm feeling better. that is in contradiction with you wanting me to not make stuff up. the difference is you are making stuff up and i'm not
you may consider su.. clicking on thuis: http://www.stanleyre...ail.aspx?id=252

Edited by Überpolarbear, 06 July 2010 - 03:17 PM.

"humor is therapy" (Viktor Frankl)
Diagnosis: [/size][/size]bipolar ultradian rapid cycling, schizophrenia NOS, being a pervert. Yes. this is bipolar. fuck the docs who say i'm schizo. ok maybe it's schizo, Clearly Schizoaffective disorder. Spooky shit!
meds: Lithium 675mg, valproic acid (generic depakote) 1200mg, Clozapine 300mg, Trazodone 50mg, Zyprexa 20mg, Carbamazepine 600mg, lamictal 50mg, valproate (generic depakote stuff) 1750mg Seroquel 600mg (soon to be 800 probably). Zyprexa 30mg, Solian (Amisulpride (AAP)) 600 mg, Lyrica 150mg, Topamax 150mg
, lamictal 25mg
 

 


#9 null0trooper

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 05:03 PM

the difference is you are making stuff up and i'm not
you may consider su.. clicking on thuis: http://www.stanleyre...ail.aspx?id=252


The link you provided does not call l-theanine an antipsychotic. The full description of the trial, at http://clinicaltrial...how/NCT00372151 does not call l-theanine an antipsychotic, either. In fact, the study was conducted to evaluate l-theanine as an ADD-ON to "regular ongoing antipsychotic medication", not as an antipsychotic medication itself.

The results were "Those on L-theanine had a significant improvement in anxiety, PANSS-positive, and general psychopathology symptoms." But the researchers have NOT published anything suggesting l-theanine is a antipsychotic medication by itself. I'll take their word and wording for their results over yours.

Proof once again that we are the only adventurers for whom the letters "AD&D" stand for "Attention Deficit Disorder" - Roy Greenhilt, Order of the Stick

Rule your own nation at Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game! Yes, I do waste spend a lot of time on it, especially the Viridian Entente's alliance boards.


#10 Überpolarbear

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 04:14 AM

dude you are crazy..
so if you like playing with words it's ok with me.
if you look at my words, closely, i said it has "antipsychotic properties". that's not exactly the same thing as "OH SHIT OH SHIT ITS AN ANTIPSYCHOTIC BY ITS OWN BY ANY MEANS AND IT HAS TO BE TAKEN ALONE SO STOP YOUR ANTIPSYCHOTICS AND TAKE IT ALONE I AM SERIOUS LOL ROFLMAO PWEND"
antipsychotic properties means it can be good for schizophrenia in one way or another. that includes taking it along with an antipsychotic what i'm actually doing.
i really wish we could stop this conversation. it's pointless. you dont want L-Theanine to be Not good for schizophrenia for some reason. i respect that. i think it's helpful and you should respect that too. and i have the study. PWND.
lets stop this and do meaningful things instead ok? thanks.

"humor is therapy" (Viktor Frankl)
Diagnosis: [/size][/size]bipolar ultradian rapid cycling, schizophrenia NOS, being a pervert. Yes. this is bipolar. fuck the docs who say i'm schizo. ok maybe it's schizo, Clearly Schizoaffective disorder. Spooky shit!
meds: Lithium 675mg, valproic acid (generic depakote) 1200mg, Clozapine 300mg, Trazodone 50mg, Zyprexa 20mg, Carbamazepine 600mg, lamictal 50mg, valproate (generic depakote stuff) 1750mg Seroquel 600mg (soon to be 800 probably). Zyprexa 30mg, Solian (Amisulpride (AAP)) 600 mg, Lyrica 150mg, Topamax 150mg
, lamictal 25mg
 

 


#11 null0trooper

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 10:49 AM

i really wish we could stop this conversation. it's pointless. you dont want L-Theanine to be Not good for schizophrenia for some reason. i respect that.


I'm saying it's not an antipsychotic medication until proven otherwise. I did not at any point state that I "dont want L-Theanine to be Not good for schizophrenia for some reason", so you can keep your "respect"

Proof once again that we are the only adventurers for whom the letters "AD&D" stand for "Attention Deficit Disorder" - Roy Greenhilt, Order of the Stick

Rule your own nation at Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game! Yes, I do waste spend a lot of time on it, especially the Viridian Entente's alliance boards.


#12 OscillateWildly

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:25 PM

This entire forum is ridiculous since nulltrooper basically just comes by and smashes any recommendation for any supplement without regard for truth.

Nulltrooper isn't happy unless you post some ridiculous BS like "take calcium for strong bones... but don't attempt to do anything for mental problems other than medication" which is completely at odds with reality as research does suggest various diets and supplements may be beneficial for some mental health problems. Not cures, beneficial.

Considering the role of glutamate in schizophrenia, l-theanine MIGHT be useful, and it probably won't be any more harmful than medication, so why not encourage people to try it? The preliminary results are promising.

I don't get the point of this forum if nulltrooper is going to come by and argue every valid suggestion.

It would be one thing if people were sayig crazy crap like "vitamin C cures schizophrenia" which has no basis in reality, but saying l-theanine might help schizophrenia is completely rational... and anyone with psychotic episodes/disorder should probably take it IMO, since as previously stated it is unlikely to hurt, it is relatively safe and could offer some benefits according to research.

#13 Überpolarbear

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:29 PM

1. it's actually somewhat proven that it works for the "management of schizophrenia" i dont know the difference between a substance that is good for the "management of schizophrenia" and an antipsychotic.
2. if you want to get me in a fight i'm not into this kind of shit. go fight with occilatewidely or someone else.

btw: i keep my respect regardless of what you say.

edit: i typed this actually before OscillateWildly came along. HELLO OscillateWildly WAZZZUUUUP!

i can forsee the future since i'm on L-Theanine. i see something like this comming.

some admin other than nulltrooper will close this thread and say yea nulltrooper is a genious and you all suck...

Edited by Überpolarbear, 07 July 2010 - 12:38 PM.

"humor is therapy" (Viktor Frankl)
Diagnosis: [/size][/size]bipolar ultradian rapid cycling, schizophrenia NOS, being a pervert. Yes. this is bipolar. fuck the docs who say i'm schizo. ok maybe it's schizo, Clearly Schizoaffective disorder. Spooky shit!
meds: Lithium 675mg, valproic acid (generic depakote) 1200mg, Clozapine 300mg, Trazodone 50mg, Zyprexa 20mg, Carbamazepine 600mg, lamictal 50mg, valproate (generic depakote stuff) 1750mg Seroquel 600mg (soon to be 800 probably). Zyprexa 30mg, Solian (Amisulpride (AAP)) 600 mg, Lyrica 150mg, Topamax 150mg
, lamictal 25mg
 

 


#14 jarn

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:54 PM

My biggest concern is how someone would know what an appropriate dosage would be given their size and medications they were on (and any possible interactions). I would think this is the kind of thing a doctor should be involved in prescribing.

Current meds: Saphris 25mg, Latuda 40mg, Lamotrigine 250mg, Pristiq 50mg, Ativan 1mg


#15 Überpolarbear

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:13 PM

My biggest concern is how someone would know what an appropriate dosage would be given their size and medications they were on (and any possible interactions). I would think this is the kind of thing a doctor should be involved in prescribing.

absolutely. my doc also knows i'm taking it and he said it's ok. everyone should discuss it with his doc if he is going to take this. as for the dose, i'd rather go for the 400mg they tried in the study mentioned above

Edited by Überpolarbear, 07 July 2010 - 01:14 PM.

"humor is therapy" (Viktor Frankl)
Diagnosis: [/size][/size]bipolar ultradian rapid cycling, schizophrenia NOS, being a pervert. Yes. this is bipolar. fuck the docs who say i'm schizo. ok maybe it's schizo, Clearly Schizoaffective disorder. Spooky shit!
meds: Lithium 675mg, valproic acid (generic depakote) 1200mg, Clozapine 300mg, Trazodone 50mg, Zyprexa 20mg, Carbamazepine 600mg, lamictal 50mg, valproate (generic depakote stuff) 1750mg Seroquel 600mg (soon to be 800 probably). Zyprexa 30mg, Solian (Amisulpride (AAP)) 600 mg, Lyrica 150mg, Topamax 150mg
, lamictal 25mg
 

 


#16 null0trooper

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 03:07 PM

1. it's actually somewhat proven that it works for the "management of schizophrenia" i dont know the difference between a substance that is good for the "management of schizophrenia" and an antipsychotic.


The antipsychotics are two groups of medications that are routinely used directly against psychosis. The wikipedia definition prefaces that with "tranquilizer" but some of the atypical antipsychotics aren't supposed to be heavily sedating. The "major tranquilizers", like Haldol, achieve that by antagonizing dopamine receptors (blocking the triggers for dopamine release). The "atypical antipsychotics" are targeted more towards specific serotonin receptors, like 5HT2, which is thought to be the target for most hallucinogens.

l-theanine, even in massive doses, just isn't going to put a halt on a psychotic break or bring someone down from a bad trip like the APs. However, to the extent that glutamate plays a role in the process - either initiating the positive disease symptoms or by making things by damaging nerve cells through over-excitation - the results suggest that l-theanine may help slow things down or reduce the damage or both.

There's research that doesn't directly address schizophrenia that suggests it's neuroprotective. Very recent work on l-theanine's known anxiolytic properties question whether it affects GABA the way a benzo would (link) but at this point it seems that researchers are still trying to figure out how it manages to relax people.



2. if you want to get me in a fight i'm not into this kind of shit. go fight with occilatewidely or someone else.


You say that, and then you and OscillateWildly proceed to keep the fight going.

But if you two want to make me personally the target of the discussion, this topic can be locked too.

My biggest concern is how someone would know what an appropriate dosage would be given their size and medications they were on (and any possible interactions). I would think this is the kind of thing a doctor should be involved in prescribing.


l-theanine is available over the counter in the US as a dietary supplement, so a prescription isn't currently needed. The GRAS notice for a commercial l-theanine product notes that it's metabolized primarily in the kidneys, so liver enzyme interactions may be minimal.

As far as dosing goes, UPB mentioned the dose used in the study he's referring to. Drugs.com notes that 200-250 mg has an anxiolytic effect, and that "Theanine is sold in the United States as a dietary supplement and has been granted GRAS status in doses up to 250 mg per serving by the FDA"

Edited by null0trooper, 07 July 2010 - 03:47 PM.

Proof once again that we are the only adventurers for whom the letters "AD&D" stand for "Attention Deficit Disorder" - Roy Greenhilt, Order of the Stick

Rule your own nation at Cyber Nations, A nation simulation game! Yes, I do waste spend a lot of time on it, especially the Viridian Entente's alliance boards.


#17 jarn

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 04:05 PM


My biggest concern is how someone would know what an appropriate dosage would be given their size and medications they were on (and any possible interactions). I would think this is the kind of thing a doctor should be involved in prescribing.


l-theanine is available over the counter in the US as a dietary supplement, so a prescription isn't currently needed. The GRAS notice for a commercial l-theanine product notes that it's metabolized primarily in the kidneys, so liver enzyme interactions may be minimal.

As far as dosing goes, UPB mentioned the dose used in the study he's referring to. Drugs.com notes that 200-250 mg has an anxiolytic effect, and that "Theanine is sold in the United States as a dietary supplement and has been granted GRAS status in doses up to 250 mg per serving by the FDA"


That it's sold over the counter is what concerns me. You can get it without being under a doctor's supervision. I wouldn't want to add anything like that in without knowing any possible interactions with my meds. It seems like there is a potential for problems because of it's accessibility.

Current meds: Saphris 25mg, Latuda 40mg, Lamotrigine 250mg, Pristiq 50mg, Ativan 1mg


#18 AirMarshall

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 04:10 PM

Uber, glad to hear that you have experienced improvement. ;)

I don't have time to even run thru this entire thread as I'm traveling. I think your results are interesting. I know that you do a lot of in depth reading on treatment and illness. I must admit that I have not done any reading on L-theanine, as you are the first who have really brought it to my attention. When I get home I will put it on my list to research.

Don't get your hopes too high, as there is always the chance that this is placebo effect. But hey, placebo is ok if it makes you feel better. Just stay connected with your pdoc and don't quit the normal meds.

best, a.m.

**My work is done.  Swimming for the nearest shore.**


#19 Stickler

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 05:39 PM

From what I've read so far, L-theanine has not, *so far* been found to interact with prescription meds period, whether psych or not, if anyone can find different, please tell me so.
From what I remember reading, it produces a calming effect, similar to but somewhat milder than benzos.
It also produces some focusing effects for ADD /ADHD people; adding caffiene may heighten this effect.
I'm not having anxiety ATM since the last med adjustment (yay), so I am seeing if the stuff I bought to try for anxiety/anger will help with concentration, since I bought it and it's taking up room in my crowded supplement drawer, and if it doesn't work, I might as well find that out and declutter also.

Since I'm not schizo spectrum, I haven't looked into what it does for schizo people.

i can forsee the future since i'm on L-Theanine. i see something like this comming.


Mister Bear, I hope you don't really think you can see the future, b/c if so something manic-ish and a bit delusive may be going on. I think you're being metaphoric, but I have to ask. Sorry.
Your replies also seem, well, irritable, which can also be a manic indicator. You know. Mixed state.

Just an observation, but this board seems to actually beat out the politics board for vitriolic arguments.
As Rodney King said: "Can't we all just get along?"

Putting the fun back in dysfunctional, every damn day. :cool: 


#20 Überpolarbear

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 04:36 AM

Mister Bear, I hope you don't really think you can see the future, b/c if so something manic-ish and a bit delusive may be going on. I think you're being metaphoric, but I have to ask. Sorry.
Your replies also seem, well, irritable, which can also be a manic indicator. You know. Mixed state.

Just an observation, but this board seems to actually beat out the politics board for vitriolic arguments.
As Rodney King said: "Can't we all just get along?"


that was metaphoric! and i'm not irritable at all... or maybe very much less irritable than like 6 months ago. i was just defending my point of view. ok maybe i have a rather not so normal personality but there is no mania or psychosis going on here. i'm just a bad person ;) but it seems that everything is ok now.
hello Null0trooper wazzzuppp have a nice day and stuff :)

Uber, glad to hear that you have experienced improvement. :)

I don't have time to even run thru this entire thread as I'm traveling. I think your results are interesting. I know that you do a lot of in depth reading on treatment and illness. I must admit that I have not done any reading on L-theanine, as you are the first who have really brought it to my attention. When I get home I will put it on my list to research.

Don't get your hopes too high, as there is always the chance that this is placebo effect. But hey, placebo is ok if it makes you feel better. Just stay connected with your pdoc and don't quit the normal meds.

best, a.m.


you may want to take a look at this (yeah i has website lol): http://sites.google....e/teaforschizo/
click on "An amateur Meta-analysis sort of article". the home webpage is rather crap. i have to redo that.
i'm not going to stop my other meds. in fact, it pretty much looks like it works best when taken with a dopamine receptor antagonist (antipsychotic) because it may increase dopamine

Edited by Überpolarbear, 08 July 2010 - 08:02 AM.

"humor is therapy" (Viktor Frankl)
Diagnosis: [/size][/size]bipolar ultradian rapid cycling, schizophrenia NOS, being a pervert. Yes. this is bipolar. fuck the docs who say i'm schizo. ok maybe it's schizo, Clearly Schizoaffective disorder. Spooky shit!
meds: Lithium 675mg, valproic acid (generic depakote) 1200mg, Clozapine 300mg, Trazodone 50mg, Zyprexa 20mg, Carbamazepine 600mg, lamictal 50mg, valproate (generic depakote stuff) 1750mg Seroquel 600mg (soon to be 800 probably). Zyprexa 30mg, Solian (Amisulpride (AAP)) 600 mg, Lyrica 150mg, Topamax 150mg
, lamictal 25mg
 

 






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