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Narcissistic mother, will she ever stop trying to hurt me?


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#1 Birdee

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 05:34 AM

Over a year ago, I finally chose "no contact" with this vicious woman. It was way overdue. In a way, I've grieved her loss… well the loss of hoping she'd ever be a REAL mom. But in a way it's been freeing. I'm not subject to her particular brand of crazy anymore. Or so I thought.

I am done with her but apparently she's not done with me yet. And by "done" I mean she's not done belittling and slandering me to anyone and everyone who will listen to her.

Over the holidays one of my cousins caught my ear and proceeded to regurgitate nasty, derogatory rumors about me that were started by my mother. They are flying all over the entire extended family grape vine. Seriously?

She's been this way my whole life. I've long since wearied of reacting to, justifying or defending myself against her cruel remarks. So I just try to shrug them off as her undiagnosed mental illness. And while I wish I could say that I've become numb or immune to her venom. I haven't… not completely. It still stings.

I doubt she will ever stop being a mean, nasty gossip. She's the kind of person who says something bad about everyone behind their back. But her own daughter? Really? It shouldn't surprise me anymore. But it still does. I try my best not to play her game and not retaliate by dishing out a heaping portion of verbal spew against her. I mean, why give her just cause to play the justified victim? But she sure doesn't make it easy.

Will she EVER stop?

- Some days I miss being numb from the brain down… but for today, I'm still sober
- Favorite quote - When your ass falls of… and it will… pick it up… put it in a bag… and just carry it with you - (Grams)

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#2 Phoenix_Rising

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 11:33 AM

I'm sorry...I know how hurtful a parent with NPD can be. Unfortunately, she won't stop being so hateful. She will probably talk about you much less as time goes by, but for now this is her only way to spread her poison to you. My advice is that when your other family starts to tell you what she has said, politely stop them and say you're not interested. If they continue to try to tell you, explain that it is very hurtful to you to hear these things.

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#3 bpladybug

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 01:04 PM

No Birdee, I am so sorry. I certainly understand your pain and suffering.
They never change. My mother in law is awful, just horrid. She is living in Assisted
Living and has a legtimate diagnosis for NPD. A diagnosis from two therapists.
She was fired by 3, three!! different doctors. Now her HMO, where she is a
Medicaid patient, sends out a therapist every other week just to monitor her behavior
so she will not be kicked out of the Assisted Living home.

She threw a fit last spring and we were called to the manager's office at the
Assisted Living to listen to their complaints about her and promise she would
try to do better. It was like being called to the principal's office. I had to take an
emergency hour off work.

And my friend is away this week trying to help her NPD mother, who is vicious,
VICIOUS, and now diagnosed with dementia. Totally non cooperative in making
arrangements for her future. My friend will probably have to take her mother
to court to be declared incompetent. This woman is still mean at 80.
I hope some of these links work. They have NO incentive to change
because of their total lack of empathy. Remember, she has no empathy.

I don't think of it as a mental illness, it is a disorder. Her brain is not normal.
With mental illness we can seek treatment and have improvement.
With NPD there is no desire to change because they do not have the
ability to care for other. They are really just a step or two away from sociopath.

This post might piss someone off but I have a lot of experience with NPD
in personal and professional life - and I have read a lot about it and spent
HOURS in therapy discussing them. No Empathy. Even dogs and cats
have sympathy if you are sick or injured. But NOT the NPD mother.

http://narcissisticp...tic-parent.html

http://www.daughters...ticmothers.com/

http://narcissists-s...sists-suck.html

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#4 Birdee

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 03:28 PM

Thanks for your responses. Like anything else, I dunno if anyone can fully understand a situation like this unless they've lived it or been close to someone who's lived it. To know about it, read about it, hear about it is one thing. But to live it is another thing altogether.

I can't imagine ever intentionally trying to hurt my own kids. Most people probably feel the same. But this kind of mother thrives on it. Inflicting pain, by words, verbal tone, a disapproving look is only one of the ways they use to control you. It's all a game of manipulation. It's like they HAVE TO try to make others look bad so they can feel better about themselves. In school they are known as the "mean girls". In a mother/daughter situation it gets kinda complicated and messy. You can walk away from a "mean girl" and never look back. It's much harder to do with a parent. You want to believe they love you. They tell you they love you. They are supposed to love you. But in actuality, they don't love the way you and I do. If they even have the capacity to love at all.

My own mother has told me how she never wanted me. How close she came to putting me up for adoption… Like I'm supposed to be beholding to her that she didn't? I wish she had. She also told me about the time she contemplated killing me, MURDERING ME, my siblings and herself. Seriously… who tells their child these things? That's just messed up! No wonder I ended up half crazy myself!

Phoenix: You nailed it!
"My advice is that when your other family starts to tell you what she has said, politely stop them and say you're not interested. If they continue to try to tell you, explain that it is very hurtful to you to hear these things."
That's pretty much what I have already decided to do.

bplady: Pretty sad that they treat us as the enemy when all we really want is to love and be loved in return huh? At one point I got manipulated/guilted into letting her move in with us. What was I thinking??? She acted like a guest in our home… expecting me to wait on her hand and foot. All the while complaining about pretty much EVERYTHING. The original plan was that she'd only stay with us until we built an apartment on our property for her to live in. I already knew (and told her) I could NOT share a home with her long term. Big mistake. HUGE! Life laughed in our face and let a storm wreak havoc on our home… putting off building her apartment while we repaired the house. I did what I had to and found her a cute, clean, spacious, affordable apartment only 3 miles away from us. Naturally, that made me the bad guy… again. She was PISSED, indignant, played the martyr and refused the apartment. She wanted and expected to be able to stay with us indefinitely. She pretty much was just nasty to us to the point we told her to leave. She opted to go back to the deplorable conditions she lived in before/her old home rather than to take the apartment. What a blizzard of gossip that created! All I wanted to do was to help her without losing my sanity. But it wasn't good enough. It will never be good enough. sigh

Thanks for the links too. I've been to the first 2 links before (googled about NPD) but haven't seen the last one… which is awesome from what I've seen so far.

- Some days I miss being numb from the brain down… but for today, I'm still sober
- Favorite quote - When your ass falls of… and it will… pick it up… put it in a bag… and just carry it with you - (Grams)

- Bipolar with psychosis & PTSD updated from Bipolar, PTSD updated from Mood Disorder NOS
- July 2011: Lamictal 100mg BID
- Feb. 2012: Atarax PRN added (doc wanted abilify too but it's too costly for me)
- April 2012: Prazosin 1mg added
- October 2012: Seroquel XR 50mg added


#5 hallowedink

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 04:00 PM

I'm sorry you're going through this.

I also know what it's like to have a narcissistic parent - and I haven't escaped my Dad yet. I think one of the things that's the hardest is managing to let go of the hurt/regret/whatever at your parent not having been a proper parent. I still wish that my Dad would turn around and apologise, or even just acknowledge how hard I've worked, despite the fact that a decade of experience tells me that he won't do that.

I don't know what to say beyond that. I understand, sort of? I think the others made good suggestions, and there's nothing really that I can add except that cutting ties is probably the best way forward. She isn't going to stop hurting you, so you need to do what you have to do to protect yourself from that hurt.

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#6 crtclms

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 05:48 AM

My own mother has told me how she never wanted me. How close she came to putting me up for adoption… Like I'm supposed to be beholding to her that she didn't?


My mother has told me several times that she could have aborted me, and strongly considered it. She first said this to me when I was between the ages of 7 and 9, I can't remember exactly when, but I do remember the scene, which was in a house we moved out of when I was 9.

I remember thinking even at that age she must not realize how hurtful it was to hear that, but of course she did know. I knew the implicit message was "You are lucky to be alive, and it is all because of me." But I couldn't understand why nothing I did ever "made up" for that. And that was how I thought of it, that I had to be extra good, because she had sacrificed graduate school for me.

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#7 Birdee

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 03:56 PM

the implicit message was "You are lucky to be alive, and it is all because of me." But I couldn't understand why nothing I did ever "made up" for that. And that was how I thought of it, that I had to be extra good, because she had sacrificed graduate school for me.

crtclms: I understand what you're saying completely! Who tells their kid this shit? And I hate to point out the obvious… but your mom did NOT have to sacrifice graduate school for you. She chose to. How do I know this? Cuz I went to AND completed college with ALL of my kids in tow! SOME "MOTHERS" - SHEESH!

Ya know, by law ya hafta pass a test to become a licensed driver… but they'll let any ole asshat become a parent!

ps… how do you do that quote thing?

Edited by Birdee, 28 December 2011 - 03:57 PM.

- Some days I miss being numb from the brain down… but for today, I'm still sober
- Favorite quote - When your ass falls of… and it will… pick it up… put it in a bag… and just carry it with you - (Grams)

- Bipolar with psychosis & PTSD updated from Bipolar, PTSD updated from Mood Disorder NOS
- July 2011: Lamictal 100mg BID
- Feb. 2012: Atarax PRN added (doc wanted abilify too but it's too costly for me)
- April 2012: Prazosin 1mg added
- October 2012: Seroquel XR 50mg added


#8 Indigo 'n dye

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 03:42 PM

I don't think of it as a mental illness, it is a disorder. Her brain is not normal.With mental illness we can seek treatment and have improvement. With NPD there is no desire to change because they do not have the ability to care for other. They are really just a step or two away from sociopath.

This post might piss someone off but I have a lot of experience with NPD in personal and professional life - and I have read a lot about it and spent HOURS in therapy discussing them. No empathy. Even dogs and cats have sympathy if you are sick or injured. But NOT the NPD mother.


So, please define and explain the difference between MI and the disorder of NPD. There is more and more evidence that those of us who are diagnosed as MDD have less than normal brains, so is my MDD therefore a disorder? It is interesting that you can find it in your kind heart to tell everyone, seemingly, who has a personality disorder that we are just a step or two away from being a sociopath and those members of CB who may have been diagnosed as some variety or another of NPD are now told that change is simply out of the questions, as we have no ability to care for others...and there it is again: sociopath.

You, LB, have taken it upon yourself recently to tell a member that they just needed to stop the psychodrama, JUST STOP, now you are condemning other members to the role of sociopath. I do not care how much time you have devoted to studying personality disorders nor do I care that you deal with sociopathic NPD's in your life, you need to pull your fangs back in, step back a few paces and serious consider not allowing your personal prejudices and your personal dislikes from painting others as worthless members of society.

Yes, I know that TG's mother has made your life miserable, but it is not OK to condemn others here on CB for what you judge as your mother-in-laws shortcomings.

I am willing to be that many of the members of CB with BPD are trying just as hard as anyone else to move beyond the focus of their MI, or as you prefer, their disorder, and to be productive members of society.

I know how difficult it is to be a child of a narcissist, but damn can we kinda set the wholesale condemnation aside and exert an once or so of human kindness to EVERYONE with MI? or must that be conserved for those diagnosed with bipolar?

No, you did not piss me off, but you did disappoint me.


 


#9 gonenative

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:25 PM

My own mother has told me how she never wanted me. How close she came to putting me up for adoption… Like I'm supposed to be beholding to her that she didn't?


My mother has told me several times that she could have aborted me, and strongly considered it. She first said this to me when I was between the ages of 7 and 9, I can't remember exactly when, but I do remember the scene, which was in a house we moved out of when I was 9.

I remember thinking even at that age she must not realize how hurtful it was to hear that, but of course she did know. I knew the implicit message was "You are lucky to be alive, and it is all because of me."


thank you so much for saying!!! I had the same things said to me and I did not understand until now how she say this as anything but damaging to me, but you brought some perspective to it. I do really think she thought she was propping herself up as martyr of my existance.

I don't think she will ever change, but I think she went so long w/out anyone standing up to her that she learned for years that she was by default "right". I think she was capable of change, but she has chose to stay with what she knows.

Birdee, I am sorry you had to experience such a terrible form of a mother. Her ugliness is her disease talking and not anything a young child is deserving. These days I am always triggered by her meanness but relieved too, because when we have an out between us, she usually sends an ugly letter and then leaves me alone for a few months and oh do I love those months.

Edited by gonenative, 01 March 2012 - 05:40 PM.


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#10 gonenative

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:55 PM

I apologize for my additional post, I wanted to add this too

I wonder what is feels like to be a NPD mom. My mom as an example has no close positive lasting relationships. She gains new friends easily but will ultimately destroy them with huge inapropriate anger. I feel she must be miserable for all the anger and hate she wields. I've talked about this with my last tdoc and my sister and they seemed to disagree with me. My tdoc says she does not have an "I'm a bad person" script, as I do. Is it that she feels no negative emotions?? I have a hard time understanding this.


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#11 reddog

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 02:17 AM

My grandma is like this. She doesn't have the "I'm a bad person" script, but I she is bitter, resentful, envious and full of anger, all of which are unpleasant emotions. So I do agree that your mom is indeed miserable, but not because she thinks she's a bad person. My grandma feels the world 'owes' her something that she's never received...that she is the good person who is owed something.
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#12 Fromsmurf

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:30 PM

you are right about it being one step away from sociopath- 'M' took that step. I can't talk about it here or now. It's just too disturbing. Please visit the ptsd private thread as I can't make mention of it here. (I'll try to post something there later on).
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#13 xxyercutexx

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 12:24 AM

my grandmother on my mom side is exactly like that. she and my mom do not speak and she is constantly playing the victim and talking about people. now that I am older I am seeing how insane my grandma is, she has turned against me too. we are currently not speaking and I know she is talking about me too. I even made an attempt to be mature and just apologize but she holds grudges and won't forgive her own granddaughter! it really hurts. I don't know what else to do but wait, my mom always said "it's like walking on egg shells with her." and she is right.

stay strong.

#14 joachim

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 03:16 PM

It's taken almost 50 years and my doc to realize what has been wrong with my mother (she had me convinced there was something horribly wrong with me)

so I've read a lot about it, even though I had to go "no contact" several years ago

they are very insecure...I think of "the mother" as a tiny little person in a big concrete box with very thick walls...supposedly narcissists breed narcissists which really worries me, but that would mean my beloved grandmother was dysfunctional...and I can see that she did have a tendancy to smother (and I read that is usually low self-esteem, and there's lot's of reason for that too)

so, yes I banged my head against the brick wall for years, and she kept slipping that knife between my ribs, and no matter what, that tape runs in my head and the voice is hers...but looking back and trying to see where all this came from...somehow helps me

we're dealing with generations of crap on top of/or in addition to our brain circuitry...we have a lot more knowledge and resources now, so hopefully we'll break the pattern

...stephanie
"MAD, adj. Affected with a high degree of intellectual independence; not conforming to standards of thought, speech and action derived by the conformants from the study of themselves; at odds with the majority; in short, unusual. It is noteworthy that persons are pronounced mad by officials destitute of evidence that they themselves are sane..."
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

#15 AirMarshall

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 10:26 AM

...supposedly narcissists breed narcissists which really worries me, but that would mean my beloved grandmother was dysfunctional...and I can see that she did have a tendancy to smother (and I read that is usually low self-esteem, and there's lot's of reason for that too)

Don't worry, you mother can't 'turn you into a narcissist'. The fact that you have enough insight and empathy to be concerned is almost proof enough you aren't one. :)

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#16 joachim

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 08:44 PM

thank you AirMarshal,

I think any insight comes just from searching for years...

here's a really icky part :surprised: :

anyone ever hear that thing about using relationships to try to resolve conflict with original caretaker?
well, it proved completely true in my case, but I was too stupid to see it except in retrospect....as I look back, he was a narcissist too, maybe not the full-blown disorder but some pretty pronounced traits...I was devastated when he kicked me to the curb because I "got too close" (hey, I was trained to read minds)

...but I guess I did make some progress in being able to say "no more" to her, to throw away letters, cards, gave an unopened gift sent to my friend...can't even read email...amazing how that tone can come across even in email!

I just ache for for anyone dealing with this, know that it can be done...not necessarily painlessly though...I read there's not much hope of treating them...the mother has never given 1 second's consideration to the possibility there could be any fault on her side...if they can't see it, they aren't very well going to accept any kind of treatment

we've already stood on our heads and beat ourselves senseless and as mentioned above "it's never enough"
and never will be

I hope everyone can get this a lot faster than I did...learn to mother yourself! :wub:

...stephanie
"MAD, adj. Affected with a high degree of intellectual independence; not conforming to standards of thought, speech and action derived by the conformants from the study of themselves; at odds with the majority; in short, unusual. It is noteworthy that persons are pronounced mad by officials destitute of evidence that they themselves are sane..."
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

#17 Mrs. Brady

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 09:05 PM

Sorry, no good news here. It's now been nearly 8 years since I had to go no contact with my mother. The woman is just evil. I can't imagine we will reunite in her lifetime as she's just too ill ( and untreated and in denial) for me to be around or for me to expose my kids to.

But I do know what you mean about grieving the mother she will never be... I'm in my 40's and all my friends have their mums in their lives and I wish it could be the same for me.. But it simply never will.

It's been this way my entire life..I always used to "adopt" my friends families when I was a kid because I just wanted it so bad... But when I had kids of my own I finally realized that if I wanted family I was going to have to build it from scratch. So it's me, hubby, our kids and the small "urban family" we have gathered over the years.

I hope you can find peace, or at least acceptance in this.. It's a sucky thing.
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#18 Lizette

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:22 AM

I know exactly how you feel, your story sounds like my life. My Mother has NPD (undiagnosed) She has been bad mouthing me since I was a child in school. Our family and people she knows thinks nothing of me, I am 38 and by now, my brother (golden child) and sister (golden child) believe that I am the problem, my enabling Father is her puppet on a string. I am alone and I live with the damage that she has done every day of my life. I don't ....no CANT even visit them, I hate being there or even thinking about going there because of all the gossip, every time someone walks into the house I am left wondering what this person thinks of me, I have had the stare me downs from complete strangers many times (the bad daughter is here, O so this is her?????) My Mother ( I don't really want to refer to her as my Mother, she is nothing of the kind, but for the record I will) constantly tries to hurt me as well, it will never stop, she feeds of it, it is like food to a N

She has completely destroyed my career, I am left with a cv that means nothing, she has destroyed me financialy a couple of times in my life, she never get's exposed for who she is, she lies and denies everything she did to me and everyone believes her and she is the victim.

I have had black on white proof of things she has done to me (voice loggings, people that told me things she did) even that did not work, she still denies it and my family does not believe me. They think I am crazy (Mommy dearest worked on that one for 38 years and succeeded to convince people of that) I am not flawed and I do not need fixing, I was abused emotionally all my life and I simply needed healing. She has kicked me when I was down so many times in my life. I got fired twice in my life from my job because of her and then she tells people that I have problems everywhere I work. She is a huge Christian and likes to deny things by saying "I swear to God I did not do this or that?" that was directly after I played the voice logging to her with her voice on it?????? and a grin on her face.

I have given up on confronting her, it blows up in my face every time, I am then left to deal with the hurt of what ever she has done this time as well as being blamed by everyone she can find to manipulate for being mean to Mommy dearest. I just work through the pain and pretend that everything is fine, it works well, she gets no reaction from me and cant handle it, I realised now that, that is what she wanted, I am NO LONGER her NS - narcissistic supply. I share nothing about my life, I don't allow her to notice that she has hurt me by her snide remarks, I don't allow her to manipulate me any more (Because I realised that she will never change or be a Mother to me) and it freaks her out. No emotional or financial links to a N is all you can do. I never want to see her again. it took long to get here, I look back on a life destroyed, many tears, many crazy days - Never again.

"Evil" is the only word I can think of when it comes to this woman that refers to herself as my Mother. It was very hard to come to the point of realizing that she is not a Mother and you need to stop thinking of her as that. I know it hurts, I KNOW! but it brings you freedom. As long as you are looking for a Mother in her you will go through hell over and over again. You are NS to her and that is all you will ever be, until you stop it.

I lost my income again recently due to her constant sympathy seeking and using me to gain it, that was the last time I walked into destruction of my life because of her. I predicted it a year ago, she will never change.

Edited by Lizette, 09 October 2012 - 04:24 AM.


#19 Birdee

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:02 AM

Lizette... OMG! If I didn't know better, I'd swear they cloned my mother and sent her to you. Seriously.. the way you describe your mom sounds nearly identical to mine... including the hyper-religiousness. Full of the love of WHOOOOO? lol & geez

YK? It makes me sad that you've suffered under her madness. I understand completely. But at the same time I'm proud of you for choosing sanity over family obligation. Sometimes... you just hafta walk away. I did. And so did one of my siblings. We're pretty happy with our decisions... but you know how it goes... according to "mom"... WE'RE the sick ones. whatever...

- Some days I miss being numb from the brain down… but for today, I'm still sober
- Favorite quote - When your ass falls of… and it will… pick it up… put it in a bag… and just carry it with you - (Grams)

- Bipolar with psychosis & PTSD updated from Bipolar, PTSD updated from Mood Disorder NOS
- July 2011: Lamictal 100mg BID
- Feb. 2012: Atarax PRN added (doc wanted abilify too but it's too costly for me)
- April 2012: Prazosin 1mg added
- October 2012: Seroquel XR 50mg added


#20 Cade

Cade

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:49 AM

I have a close family member who is like that, and it's hard to deal with. 29 years of that behavior - I don't remember what it was like before that - and while it's improved somewhat since I moved out, it hasn't gone away. Personality disorders are difficult to treat. She's been in therapy before and been on meds and it only helped a little bit. Sometimes you have to cut off contact for your own mental health. I couldn't do that personally, but I limit my exposure. I see her once or twice a month and only for a couple of hours. That seems to be the perfect amount of time for her to vent to me about everybody else and not have time to start in on me yet since she loves complaining about her co-workers and my dad and my sister. I respond neutrally ("yeah, that sounds like a stressful situation," etc.) Every situation is going to be different.

I feel kind of guilty because on one hand it's not her fault she's the way she is, but on the other hand she still doesn't have the right to treat others like something stuck on the bottom of her shoe and those people aren't obligated to put up with it. I trained her for awhile by leaving immediately and depriving her of her of someone to complain to every time she was rude to me, and now she does it a lot less as long as I don't stick around too long. But she hasn't changed much, she's just learned that if she wants occasional compliments and someone to bitch to, then she needs to at least pretend to be nice to me. The occasional hurtful comment still comes out once in awhile. If she's just being her self-centered self and not thinking about her words' effect on others, I can ignore it. When she heard my weight - which is on the low side of normal - she immediately went into a speech about how fat she'd be if she weighed that and it's not fair that I'm only a little chubby and the same height (I'm 3 inches taller), when I have a history of ED-NOS, rather severe when I was having mixed episodes. Not a smart thing to say, but she's not trying to be mean, she just thinks everything revolves around her. If she's being intentionally cruel, I'm gone. No thanks.

Dx: GAD, Bipolar I with rapid cycling, inattentive-type ADD, ED-NOS
Daily Rx: Abilify 10mg, Adderall XR 20mg

 

There is no great genius without a touch of madness.






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