Igoryok

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  1. I wish I'd never done ECT. Far too many horror stories and lives ruined - I highly suggest you look at both sides of the coin before considering it. I don't know a single person that has benefited long-term from ECT, but I know many who either relapsed or became far worse then they were prior to doing ECT. I had a friend on FB who recently killed herself because of the effects of ECT.
  2. Are you serious? I said "possibly" permanent. I just showed you a study that talks about cognitive impairment that may cause significant functional difficulties and prevent patients to return to work. This is at least 6 months post-treatment, and nowhere in the study does it say that cognitive impairments "eventually improve" as you so boldly stated, or that these patients can ever work again (I know some that cannot). The researcher of the study furthermore writes, "the literature on cognitive side effects of ECT and maintenance ECT is sparse and there is a lack of randomised data,” and “The loss of autobiographical memory has not been adequately investigated.” (this is where personal patient testimonials come in handy, at least for me). “Cognitive side effects of ECT can persist for an extended period of time,” and “Robertson and Pryor consider that patients should be told that permanent amnesia is one of possible, frequent and serious side effects of ECT which affects at least one-third of patients.” __________ Now if you'll permit me a question - someone please show me a single study that has ever shown that ECT can ‘prevent suicide’ when compared to placebo. On the other hand, I know of people who have committed suicide after ECT (Ernest Hemingway being one of them).
  3. Traumatic brain injury also causes "side effects." But it's still a TBI (usually called "brain damage" in layman's terms). The cognitive side effects don't always necessarily improve. And the study I just linked doesn't prove that they "eventually go away," either. I've spoken with several people personally who weren't able to return to their careers (or do much of anything really) due to cognitive impairments from ECT that they've had many years ago. Lamictal and most anticonvulstants generally don't cause the same cognitive impairments as ECT does. And once you stop the medication, you often recover whatever side effects you've incurred on account of the med - this may not be the case with ECT, unfortunately. My psychiatrist said the same thing, "all meds have side effects, but nothing is as serious and severe as ECT."
  4. I ask again, what do you call persisting (possibly permanent) cognitive impairments, then, if not brain damage? Attentional issues, inability to do simple math in one's head, inability to take in new information years after ECT, blunted/flat affect - what do you call this? Here are some excerpts from a recent study, published in 2017: “ECT is one of the most controversial treatments in medicine, particularly because of the still unknown mechanism of action and uncertainty about cognitive side effects.” (making this indeed an "experimental treatment" with many complaining of severe side effects). "“Cognitive side effects of ECT are sometimes underestimated and may last much longer after completed treatment than it is usually expected. These cognitive impairments associated with ECT may cause significant functional difficulties and prevent patients to return to work.” - What would you call that, if not brain damage? Maybe I've used the wrong term; I think Traumatic Brain Injury is more apt. (The effects from the latter mimic many of the effects people often get from ECT). - Kolar, D. (2017). Current status of electroconvulsive therapy for mood disorders: A clinical review. Evid Based Ment Health, 20(1), 12-14. doi: 10.1136/eb-2016-102498 Once again, my main point is that patients routinely receive inadequate informed consent that does not mention the risk of persisting (possibly permanent) impairment. Psychiatrists need to warn their patients of these possible consequences, which they very seldom do. How can you call a treatment "safe" if it can can cause cognitive impairments that result in people not being able to function normally and/or return to work?
  5. I don't know. You said you did ECT. Has it really helped you, or were the benefits short-lived? Do you plan on doing it again?
  6. No, people can judge brain damage by neuropsych testing and sometimes by scans (the study that showed reduced frontal cortical connectivity after ECT). Nobody's "guessing" their IQ - this woman was obviously tested, and the fact that she couldn't help her 8-year old daughter do homework confirmed her cognitive deficits as a result from ECT. But it seems like you don't want to hear others' experience, just the ones that "worked," right? Are you suggesting lobotomy didn't cause brain damage?? Why would this poor woman who's now suicidal because of her ECT experience make any of this up? Yea, there's a study from 2007 (and another recent one that I can link) that shows lasting (possibly permament) cognitive dysfunction and memory loss, preventing many people from ever going back to work. Among other side effects aforementioned, this sounds like brain damage. What else would you call it? What would you call it, then, especially when these symptoms (among others) are persistent and happen as a direct result of ECT? I'm blaming them for not providing adequate informed consent, yes, among other things. I never said "psychiatrists are evil" or deliberately force people into stupidity, damaging their brains. Unfortunately, however, it happens, and people should be made aware of these possible consequences of ECT. You're literally making up stuff and putting words into my mouth, things I never even said. Maybe it was your IQ that has dropped. Finally, people should be able to hear both sides of the story, but whenever someone mentions a terrible experience and yes, brain damage confirmed by neuropsychologists, you immediately dismiss it with indignation and delete people's posts. You admitted yourself that you saw or knew people that have had a horrible experience with ECT. Someone here posted of his wife's experience, but his post was deleted simply because it wasn't his personal experience. Are you serious? So one is not even allowed to post the experience of one's spouse? What a travesty. My previous psychiatrist herself considers ECT to induce brain damage, and she's quite well-known and respected here. She urged me not to do it, and I wish I'd listened to her. I'm not blaming my last psychiatrist for deliberately damaging me or calling him evil, but I'm certainly blaming him for not doing enough research and informing me of all possible side effects. I wasn't even depressed, let alone suicidal, before ECT. Now I'm both.
  7. Biased? They're the ones receiving the treatment and reporting the aftereffects. That's not bias, that's reporting their first-hand experience. The neurologist, psychiatrist, psychologist, etc. is not the one receiving the treatment. Persistent, long-term (possibly permanent) shortened attention span and the other "side" effects I've included doesn't sound like brain damage to you? Well, I beg to differ. I also know someone who's developed a seizure disorder due to ECT, and plenty of others who can no longer do simple math in their heads (not to mention other side effects) years after ECT. What is that if not brain damage? They've never had these problems prior to ECT. You've just proved my point in that there is no real informed consent. Psychiatrists generally don't tell patients that they can have a bad or horrible experience, which many have, and do. Lobotomy was also once legal... Doctors take the Hippocratic oath, "first do no harm." If there is at least one patient that's been harmed by ECT - and there are countless - then the least that all psychiatrists prescribing ECT should do is warn their patient of the various harmful, devastating effects they may experience. Unfortunately, most don't. ___________ Here is another study, by the way: “The cognitive effects of electroconvulsive therapy in community settings.” Neuropsychopharmacology, 32, 244-254. Sackeim, H., Prudic, J., Fuller, R., Keilp, J., Lavori, P. and Olfson, M. (2007). Based on numerous standardized psychological tests, six months after the last ECT every form of the treatment was found to cause lasting memory and mental dysfunction. In the summary words of the investigators, “Thus, adverse cognitive effects were detected six months following the acute treatment course.” They concluded, “this study provides the first evidence in a large, prospective sample that adverse cognitive effects can persist for an extended period, and that they characterize routine treatment with ECT in community settings.” Some more sources to look at: `Electroshock as head injury’, – Linda Andre;`The Sham ECT Literature: Implications for Consent to ECT’, – Dr Colin Ross`The effectiveness of electroconvulsive therapy: A literature review’, – Dr John Read & Dr Richard Bentall (One of the best)`Time to Abandon Electroconvulsion as a Treatment in Modern Psychiatry’, – Hanafy Youseff, Fatma Youseff.`Memory and cognitive effects of ECT: informing and assessing patients’, – Harold Robertson & Robin Pryor`ECT Anonymous – Research Information’, May 1999`Brain Damage and Memory Loss form ECT’, Peter Sterling, neurologist.`Electroshock’, Dr John Breeding`Psychiatry’s Electroconvulsive Shock Treatment A Crime Against Humanity’, Lawrence Stevens`ECT: Sham Statistics, the Myth of Convulsive Therapy, and the Case for Consumer Misinformation – Douglas G Cameron`A Shocking treatment?’ – Dr Lucy Johnstone. `Adverse psychological effects of ECT’, Dr Lucy Johnstone`Waiting for Oblivion: Women’s Experiences with Electroshock’, Prof Cheryl Leslie van Daarlen-Smith.
  8. @mellifluous - thank you, and the feeling is mutual. If it saved your life, I'm really glad. @jt07 - yes, he may be antipsychiatry, but the article I linked to is not really about his opinion, but rather the study he cites that shows "disconnectivity" in the brain resulting from ECT - aka brain damage. I've also spoken with quite a few people - and read accounts from others - who talk about persisting cognitive deficits, lack of emotions/flatness, inability to form new memories, shortened attention span, loss of personality/self, inability to feel love, etc. as a result of ECT. Surely sounds like brain damage to me. Even my previous psychiatrist had urged me not to do it, and I wish more than anything that I'd listened to her. I also think a major problem is that most psychiatrists will never tell you of these possible devastating effects. There is no truly "informed consent." All I was told by my psychiatrist was that it was a "safe" procedure and all I had to lose was some short-term memory loss. Nothing could be further from the truth. If there is at least one person who's life has been ruined by ECT - and there are many - then psychiatrists should warn you of this possibility. It's truly tragic that most don't.
  9. I'm also an actual patient. If it saved your life, I'm really glad. For me, it may have very well ruined it. After my 5th session, my emotions felt blunted, and I spiraled into a deep depression. Then I had a short "enlightenment" phase as I like to call it, which was very short-lived, unfortunately. I then relapsed into dissociation/depression, and only got worse from there. I now have a "blank mind"/loss of inner monologue, and I don't know who I am. A loss of personality and sense of self, if you will. I was never like this before ECT, and I believe it was the worst decision I've made in my entire life. This has happened, and continues to happen, to many other folks undergoing this "treatment." You can find such testimonials under the comments section in various articles about ECT posted online, from actual patients. You will also find them on Youtube videos about ECT. Every single article and Youtube video I've seen about ECT that allows for comments, there are much more negative testimonials than positive ones. Like I said, OP can do the research. There's also a Facebook group for survivors of ECT, where the majority of members have been devastated by the effects of this "therapy." One member recently committed suicide because of what ECT had done to her. As for the "benefits" being short-lived, most who've actually feel they benefited from it, will report as much. Even the user Geek here reported as much, and now he is - according to what he posted himself - in a worse state than he was prior to ECT. Finally, you can read this article, which talks about ECT causing brain damage: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-peter-breggin/electroshock-treatment_b_1373619.html
  10. I wouldn't do it. The possible long-term side effects are too risky and for most, if not all, the "positive" effects (if you get any) are short-lived, anyway. Personally, I believe it's brain damage. Do your research and read about actual patient testimonials.
  11. I guess it's a possibility, but of course I can't say for sure...
  12. Thank you, best wishes to you too for finding a way out. I can totally relate...If you find something (meds or otherwise) that helps, please let me know!
  13. Но, конечно, меня зовут Игорь в конце концов :0) Спасибо, еще раз, и то же самое для вас!
  14. Thank you, I appreciate that. К вашему здоровью, -Igor
  15. Like I said, nothing resolved with the ECT. I used condition in quotation marks because different psychiatrists gave me different diagnoses. Many didn't give me a proper diagnosis at all. Obviously I thought there was something wrong with me if I opted for ECT, don't you think? And naturally I tried various medications beforehand. As for ECT given "unless it is needed," when I voluntarily hospitallized myself before, the leading psychiatrist there would not allow me to have ECT (obviously believing my condition didn't warrant it, and since I wasn't even depressed, to begin with). I wish I listened to the psychiatrists and others who tried to dissuade me from having it done. Now my only hope is that there was no permanent damage done and that G-d willing I can regain my old self and feel pleasure and positive emotions again.