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Vyvanse

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Posted

Anyone have any experience with this ADHD drug? I'm thinking about asking my pdoc to switch me to it and wanted to get some feedback from you guys.

TIA

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Posted

it was only approved this july, so it will be interesting to hear what people think of it. from what i've read the advantages are that it lasts a long time (12 hours supposedly) and that you can not snort it, you have to digest it, so it has less abuse potential. other than that it is a stimulant like dexidrine and adderall. oh. and apparently it has a higher side effect profile than adderall.

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Posted

The main selling point is the abuse profile. It's Dexedrine that's been bonded to some other molecule which makes it inert until acted upon by a particular digestive enzyme. In other words you can't snort it or cook it up and shoot it. It's a lot harder to turn into meth.

You can't OD on it because it depends on your metabolism to become chemically active. The amount of active dextroamphetimine available in your body is limited by the amount of the naturally occurring enzyme required to activate it. A seeming downside of this is that if you actually need a higher dose for it to work, you can't be prescribed a higher amount. It wouldn't work. It also seems like there would be even more variation than usual for how long it takes it to wear off, since how much you eat during the day is going to factor into it.

This is speculation on my part. I need to look into it some more.

For the most part, it looks to me like this is yet another scam to get new patent coverage for an old drug.

ADD is giving the pharma companies fits. There has been an explosion in the number of cases diagnosed, but they can't come up with anything that works better than the meds that are over 50 years old so they keep reformulating those over and over again and spend millions on marketing them as revolutionary.

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Posted

For the most part, it looks to me like this is yet another scam to get new patent coverage for an old drug.

ADD is giving the pharma companies fits. There has been an explosion in the number of cases diagnosed, but they can't come up with anything that works better than the meds that are over 50 years old so they keep reformulating those over and over again and spend millions on marketing them as revolutionary.

you mean you don't think it's a coincidence that this is being released RIGHT before adderall xr goes off-patent? *gasp*

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Posted

i took vyvanse during the month of june while i was in summer school, and for a couple of weeks in july, and i liked it for the days when i needed to be up from 5:30 AM because it wouldn't wear off until about 6 or 7 PM and i was working until 9 every night.. so it was good for that. it made me not think about eating, but when i got headaches from not eating, people would try to get me to eat. i only felt extremely nauseous when anyone even mentioned food or if i smelled it or thought about it, and lost about 20 lbs those 4 or 5 weeks when i took it. i drank lots of water and powerade to keep electrolytes and sugar, ,but i just couldn't bring myself to eat. the only thing i could eat was a smoothie.

now i'm back on regular old school adderall 3 times a day, and it's great. i still lose weight steadily on it, but it doesn't take as long as the vyvanse to kick in and it's much easier to take just to get me through a few hours of class and be done with it for the day.

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Posted

I see no benefit over my adderal xr...

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Posted

Hi, I have been taking vyvance for 11 days. I think it's good, I have no appetite whatsoever. Eating (or shopping for food or cooking for my family) has no priority in my life anymore. But I did walk 3 miles today...Why don't drug companies market these things as diet drugs? I still don't think I am actually "focusing" better...in fact I have been more forgetful. This is the 1st add med I have ever tried. Doc suggests I may be manic, which I may be. But I've never been depressed a day in my life...just hyper and pissy. Is it possibe to be uni-polar as opposed to bi-polar? Oh well...I also ramble.

Kim

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Posted

I've only been on this for 3 days. Adderall IR had stopped working for me and most XR's metabolize to fast to get a chance to work for me. I was started on 70mgs right off the bat. Haven't had any side effects and seems to be working well so no complaints so far... Guys we will see how long it lasts. Adderall only lasted about 3 weeks...

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Posted

Keep us updated, if you don't mind. I am curious as to how this works for people long-term.

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Posted

In April 2007, I was diagnosed with ADD and was prescribed Adderall XR. It changed my life for the better, including losing 20 pounds which I thought I could never lose. But as many people have reported, only after four months, the effectiveness of it started to wear out. My doctor only wanted to give me 30 mg. He suggested I try Vyvanse instead. Personally, it just doesn't seem to work for me. I have projects I have been sitting around for two weeks, left unfinished just like before when I wasn't on meds. Also, seem very scattered. Another reason I don't think it's working: no symptoms like dry mouth. Maybe the problem could be that the 70 mg. is the equivilent to the Adderall XR which I was on.

I have been taking Vyvanse for three weeks now. The one thing I have noticed is, I have developed this weird habit of taking single strands of my hair and feeling the texture. Sometimes, I then pull it out. Even my 15 year-old asked me, "Why do you keep messing with your hair?" My husband also asked me "Are you pulling your hair out, literally?"

At my next appointment, I am going to ask to switch back to Adderall XR and try 40 mg.

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Posted

This is interesting. So what is vyvanse? Is it dexdrine and is dexidrine dextroamphetamine spansules? What is adderall and concerta then and what is everyone's thoughts on these meds? Is concerta and adderall the new standards where dexidrine is so old?

Is dexidrine low on the side effect profile compared to adderall, ritalin, or concerta?

How safe is the dexidrine since it is so old and the last question is what is up with all of the black box warnings on all of these meds with sudden death becoming a BIG problem? Is that for people with issues already or just random?

In April 2007, I was diagnosed with ADD and was prescribed Adderall XR. It changed my life for the better, including losing 20 pounds which I thought I could never lose. But as many people have reported, only after four months, the effectiveness of it started to wear out. My doctor only wanted to give me 30 mg. He suggested I try Vyvanse instead. Personally, it just doesn't seem to work for me. I have projects I have been sitting around for two weeks, left unfinished just like before when I wasn't on meds. Also, seem very scattered. Another reason I don't think it's working: no symptoms like dry mouth. Maybe the problem could be that the 70 mg. is the equivilent to the Adderall XR which I was on.

I have been taking Vyvanse for three weeks now. The one thing I have noticed is, I have developed this weird habit of taking single strands of my hair and feeling the texture. Sometimes, I then pull it out. Even my 15 year-old asked me, "Why do you keep messing with your hair?" My husband also asked me "Are you pulling your hair out, literally?"

At my next appointment, I am going to ask to switch back to Adderall XR and try 40 mg.

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Posted

This is interesting. So what is vyvanse? Is it dexdrine and is dexidrine dextroamphetamine spansules? What is adderall and concerta then and what is everyone's thoughts on these meds? Is concerta and adderall the new standards where dexidrine is so old?

Is dexidrine low on the side effect profile compared to adderall, ritalin, or concerta?

How safe is the dexidrine since it is so old and the last question is what is up with all of the black box warnings on all of these meds with sudden death becoming a BIG problem? Is that for people with issues already or just random

A lot of this has been discussed on the Stimulants board. Searching the drug names should bring up lots of things to read.

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Posted

http://wwww.myspace.com/ddorton_25I was just prescribed Vyvanse and thus far I feel as though its giving me all the goods I got from Ritalin and missing the bads. I can understand all of some of the questions above about what you asked because 1. I have a pre med degree and 2. my psychiatrist just explained it to me. I don't remember the biochemistry exactly, but I do understand enough to maybe help you. The good thing for you's guys is that although I have a degree in Pre Med Im dumb enough to understand it so hopfully I can get you to understand it too. ;)

From what I understood, the major appeal to this med, (at least for folks like me), its its unlikely hood of dependence and abuse. Though all meds including chapstick and tums run some risk for dependence its harder for this one to be abused becuase although it is a stimulant it is attched to a ammino acid, lysine, I think which much be cleaved (split) in your stomach where the enzyme is located to free the medicine portion of the drug. There fore if u put it in your nose or in your veins......no enzyme...no reaction because when lysine is attatched my guess is the active site of the drug is already filled and won't react.

This still leaves some huge questions for me.........since reading your posts and that jogging/sparking my brain here are some of my questions.........

1. If we boost our metabolism, will that cause us to metabolize and get a kick outta this med faster?

I"ve just assembled a lot of tidbits of info on this drug...read the little white sheet inclduded w/ the drug....you can see exactly how it works....Diet does not effect it just so u know.....nor does fasting......

I guess my question is what enzyme in the body cleaves the lis

2. What if our bodies naturally are low on producing the "cleaving" enzyme. (not possible its an essential)

3. What happens to the unused/uncleaved meds if the enzyme doesn't cleave them in time? Do we transfer them outtish our bootish so that some poor river slug can quote "Hamlet" (just answered my question reading that white paper... it does)

Lisdexamfetamine (medicine with lysine) inert

dextroamphetamine (medicine after cleaved away from lysine) active (same drug as in adderall)

FYI-this drug according to its site won't go generic till 2023...yikes if I didn't get the 30 day free trial my bill today was $155.91

Dietary Sources

Good sources of lysine are foods rich in protein including meat (specifically red meat, pork, and poultry), cheese (particularly parmesan), certain fish (such as cod and sardines), nuts, eggs, soybeans (particularly tofu, isolated soy protein, and defatted soybean flour), spirulina, and fenugreek seed.

Overview

Lysine is an essential amino acid, which means that it is essential to human health but cannot be manufactured by the body. For this reason, lysine must be obtained from food. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein. Lysine is important for proper growth and it plays an essential role in the production of carnitine, a nutrient responsible for converting fatty acids into energy and helping to lower cholesterol. Lysine appears to help the body absorb and conserve calcium and it plays an important role in the formation of collagen, a substance important for bones and connective tissues including skin, tendon, and cartilage.

If there is too little lysine in the diet, kidney stones and other health related problems may develop including fatigue, nausea, dizziness, loss of appetite, agitation, bloodshot eyes, slow growth, anemia, and reproductive disorders. It is extremely rare, however, to obtain insufficient amounts of lysine through the diet. Generally, only vegetarians who follow a macrobiotic diet and certain athletes involved in frequent vigorous exercise are at risk for lysine deficiency. For vegetarians, legumes (beans, peas and lentils) are the best sources of lysine.

Lysine is involved in the browning reaction, or carmelization, in foods such as pastries, doughnuts, cookies and cereals. In this process, lysine and sugar become linked together in a way that makes lysine difficult for the body to absorb. As a result, a diet high in cereals and baked goods, especially those that contain a lot of simple sugars, can result in low lysine intake.

I"ve just assembled a lot of tidbits of info on this drug...read the little white sheet inclduded w/ the drug....you can see exactly how it works....Diet does not effect it just so u know.....nor does fasting......

I guess my question is what enzyme in the body cleaves the lisdexamfetamine and what happens if there are probs w/ this or what can we do to do to effect this enzyme.......I'll add ya'll to my faves and keep ya up to date hope some of this helps.

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Posted

Just added as a member so if ya wanna dialouge on these topics send me a shout....I've got a lot of good input...and a Pre Med degree so I cause usually wade through the medical jargon and put it in laymans terms for ya...good to meet others who have been where I am.....Just no more Ritalin for me....ever....ever.....

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Posted (edited)

Ok i was just put on vyvanse 70mg. I was just told i was add and im 26. first day i took it i felt awsome. my energy went up and everything was great ,steady smiling i had few side effects where i couldn't sleep due to the energy level and loss or desire for food. now im on my forth day now im seeing a conversion from that day to it being good for about 5 or 6 hours then almost get the zombie feeling. im still just as alert focus'd and don't get distracted. im also feeling kinda clouded and my social experiences are changing. where my first day i took it since i had the energy i was quick witted and talking more in social groups but that slowly demishes. what suggestions would u guys give me.Ron

now my 5th day im noticing whats going on my window on low end are dropping everyday i was in a complete zombie stage today almost even drueling, irritation and agitation got real bad. I miss the first dose im going to contact doctor and see what she says ill update.

(update) talked to doctor she stated the highs and lows are normal when getting used to it and to take it for another week. I then talked to my pharmacy and they stated if u take it with warm liquids it would cause that and would make siense. i drink hot tea or coffee when i take it he stated wait about 45 min to drink anything warm ill try and see what happens. Hopefully this helps and im sure other might be having same problems so i helps u too.

(update)Yea no warm drinks while u take the meds actually helped .Now it works all day but doesn't seem strong enough im not getting the energy or wittyness i was getting before my conversations are just like they was before i started. Thinking 70mg might not be enough will talk with doctor next time i go. i have no side effects besides slight loss of appitite but that seems thats going aways also

ron

Edited by ron43140

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Posted

My father (PhD organic chemist) and I (half-assed molecular biologist) had ridiculously long and complicated discussions about the metabolism (transformation) of Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine) into regular old D-amphetamine. Literally, we've got a couple of 100-page notebooks filled with potential chemical reactions we came up with that could be occurring in the stomach and intestine (I believe the latter is where the manufacturer believes that the cleavage takes place).

My personal experience on the stuff is that it nullified the effect of the Ditropan I was taking for parkinsonian sweating issues. It also gave me slight depression. Dad and I theorized that in regions of very mild acidity (like the small intestine, me moreso since I'm on antacid drugs for severe GERD), that a cholinergic molecule is briefly formed (one that mimicks the actions of acetylcholine, which would in theory nullify the actions of Ditropan, which is an anticholinergic). Little information has been published about lisdexamfetamine so far, so this is venturing into the great unknowns of speculation (even by my standards).

I'm off my rockers again, time for my night dose of clonazepam.

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Posted

its harder for this one to be abused becuase although it is a stimulant it is attched to a ammino acid, lysine, I think which much be cleaved (split) in your stomach where the enzyme is located to free the medicine portion of the drug. There fore if u put it in your nose or in your veins......no enzyme...no reaction because when lysine is attatched my guess is the active site of the drug is already filled and won't react.

It's likely that, as it is, the molecule simply will not fit to the receptors that amphetamine and methylphenidate work on.

It's a carboxylic acid ester, so all that's needed to cleave the lysine unit is a moderately strong aqueous acid solution. No enzyme is needed, just wash the pill down with fruit juice or an acidic soda... The catch is that excess acid is known to inhibit amphetamine absorption. One step forward, two steps back.

As far as energy levels not staying up and appetite suppression not holding up - that's to be expected if you are taking more than you are used to or just too much. These meds cause neurochemicals to be released without making replacements. Like withdrawing money from an ATM, once the account runs dry that's IT until you put some money back in (make more neurotransmitters - which is even less likely to happen if you're not eating much)

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Posted

It's a carboxylic acid ester, so all that's needed to cleave the lysine unit is a moderately strong aqueous acid solution. No enzyme is needed, just wash the pill down with fruit juice or an acidic soda... The catch is that excess acid is known to inhibit amphetamine absorption. One step forward, two steps back

Yeah, my father and I pretty much assumed that the cleavage (hehehe, cleavage) was performed automatically under even weak acidic (pH = 6) conditions.... which is where the acetylcholine-like molecule is briefly made. I.e. (in layman's terms), Vyvanse turns into D-amphetamine spontaneously in your gut, and during this transformation, there might or might not be something that has other neurological activity.

And nobody get me started on mixing Vyvanse with soda/pop... bad experience.

Okay, off the rockers again, time for my morning dose of clonazepam...

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Posted

im adding to what i posted above im not motivated anymore, still have a little anxiety and depression issues mostly feel like i should explode in some form of emotion and can't .im contacting my employers eap and getting a good mind doctor. Ive been dignosed with add inattentive then given meds for it and still feel all kinds of messed up maybe just a bad day.i deffently miss the being happy and talking all the time like i used to. maybe i need more then 70mg on vyvanse we will see.

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Posted

im adding to what i posted above im not motivated anymore, still have a little anxiety and depression issues mostly feel like i should explode in some form of emotion and can't .im contacting my employers eap and getting a good mind doctor. Ive been dignosed with add inattentive then given meds for it and still feel all kinds of messed up maybe just a bad day.i deffently miss the being happy and talking all the time like i used to. maybe i need more then 70mg on vyvanse we will see.

Regardless of the stupid chemistry rambling you're hearing from null and I, you need to weigh a clinical decision here. Ask yourself if the med is really working for you, and if the side effects are bothersome. If so, you'll probably want to discuss with your doctor about changing medications or other assorted advice on Vyvanse.

Anyways, good luck, and keep us posted!

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Posted

Hey... I came across an interesting article the other day and showed it to my doctor. Pretty much says This:

amphetamine = Vyvnase

45 mg per day 115 mg per day

55 mg per day 140 mg per day

65 mg per day 165 mg per day

75 mg per day 190 mg per day

80 mg per day 200 mg per day

90 mg per day 225 mg per day

But that sounds rather off we think... I'm on 70 and it's not enough yet. i'm 6'6" 250 and i'm on the baby dose moving up slowly due to my anxiety/bi-polar history.

I found that chart on http://www.adultadd.info/HighDoseMedication.htm

Also adult dosing info for vyvanse that seems reasonable if your doctor trusts you:http://adultadd.info/VyvanseC.htm

I'm pretty sure these pages are for people who do not have any anxiety, bi-polar, or any other condition that stimulates can effect besides the ADD/ADHD, Sleeping Problems, Weight Loss etc.

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Posted

Hey... I came across an interesting article the other day and showed it to my doctor. Pretty much says This:

amphetamine = Vyvnase

45 mg per day 115 mg per day

55 mg per day 140 mg per day

65 mg per day 165 mg per day

75 mg per day 190 mg per day

80 mg per day 200 mg per day

90 mg per day 225 mg per day

But that sounds rather off we think... I'm on 70 and it's not enough yet. i'm 6'6" 250 and i'm on the baby dose moving up slowly due to my anxiety/bi-polar history.

I found that chart on [link=http://www.adultadd.info/HighDoseMedication.htm"'>http://www.adultadd.info/HighDoseMedication.htm" target="_blank]http://www.adultadd.info/HighDoseMedication.htm[/link]

Also adult dosing info for vyvanse that seems reasonable if your doctor trusts you:[link=http://adultadd.info/VyvanseC.htm"'>http://adultadd.info/VyvanseC.htm" target="_blank]http://adultadd.info/VyvanseC.htm[/link]

I'm pretty sure these pages are for people who do not have any anxiety, bi-polar, or any other condition that stimulates can effect besides the ADD/ADHD, Sleeping Problems, Weight Loss etc.

Awsome thanks for that it will deffiently come up my next doctor visit. I got a really fast metabolism almost super fast and it makes sense i would metabolize faster im 6'3 155lbs and eat all the time

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Posted

Well today and lastnight i did have anxiety still but for some reason i was able to work through it in a productive way like it didn't bottle up but maybe meds or it just worked out that way i got dr appointment 4-30 ill let u guys know whats up

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Posted

Awsome thanks for that it will deffiently come up my next doctor visit. I got a really fast metabolism almost super fast and it makes sense i would metabolize faster im 6'3 155lbs and eat all the time

For most psych meds, the issue is how insane your liver is. You could be thin as a rail on five full meals a day and still be a "slow metabolizer" for some medications. Still, amphetamine leaves mostly via the kidneys - you piss it away.

Seeing a different doctor for evaluation IS a good idea for a couple of reasons.

1. The symptoms may match ADHD, but may be coming from a different problem.

For example, thyroid hormone levels are a common cause of "depression". Or the symptoms could be partly from a different MI. Depression/dysthymia overlaps with ADHD, and not many people have good luck with treating only one side of an ADHD/something-else-disordered combination.

2. Not everyone with ADHD does so well with stimulants long-term. You might have better results by including or swapping to the "second-line" meds, like Wellbutrin (bupropion) or Strattera (atomoxetine), or simply adding an inexpensive SSRI to deal with the remaining crud.

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Posted (edited)

I know its not thyroid i went to doctor prior to all this cause i was having problems sleeping,depression,anxiety and weight gaining issues. I'm a corrections officer and at the time i was working really hard for a few extra pounds of lean muscle to asist with my job. she stated she was going to test for it right off. She also stated something with my eye socket placement also gave her a hunch of that. well she tested and said everything came back fine she also said my good cholesterol was a little low so do a little more exercise. It was like T3,T4 test and some others she tested.

someone did mention to me at work if i was still having problems gaining to check for crones. I think its just a simple problem of keeping my leg from bouncing and burning those calories. lol

After my doctor said she believed i had adhd attentive it kinda made sense.

ive never finished reading a book in my entire life im 26.

Ages between 5-15 i was very hyper bouncing off the walls.

(ive watched home videos and say i can't believe i was that all over the place...or if i had a kid that acted like that i think i might have had to put him in time out all the time or strap him down)

i dropped out in the 8th grade due to i was sleeping in class so i got held back alot. I got in a little trouble but wasn't bad kid.

(it only took me 2 weeks to get my GED after that)

between the ages of 18-22 i had maybe 15-20 different jobs

I had a drug addiction problem for a few yrs i just smoked pot but i got some pills from some people i was working with at the time, after a while of that i checked myself in to rehab.

theres a few others like putting my foot in my own mouth sometimes,Rambling thoughts (not able to put what i think down on a piece of paper it always sounds better in my head., And for the longest time it sounded crazy for even me saying it to myself is that "I feel i have a Gift that no one could compare to right out in front of me and i can never grab it" Or "I feel Like i have a better purpose in life then what im doing"

I do understand what you're saying though In combination to my current symptoms they all may not be just from adhd which is why i still have those certain problems even being treated.

again i got doctors appointment 4-30-08 ill see what she says another thing is im taking my first break from meds tommrow for a couple days see what i get back from that.

Life is too short to be mad all the time

All im trying to do is enjoy life and be happy doing it!

peace out

ron

Awsome thanks for that it will deffiently come up my next doctor visit. I got a really fast metabolism almost super fast and it makes sense i would metabolize faster im 6'3 155lbs and eat all the time

For most psych meds, the issue is how insane your liver is. You could be thin as a rail on five full meals a day and still be a "slow metabolizer" for some medications. Still, amphetamine leaves mostly via the kidneys - you piss it away.

Seeing a different doctor for evaluation IS a good idea for a couple of reasons.

1. The symptoms may match ADHD, but may be coming from a different problem.

For example, thyroid hormone levels are a common cause of "depression". Or the symptoms could be partly from a different MI. Depression/dysthymia overlaps with ADHD, and not many people have good luck with treating only one side of an ADHD/something-else-disordered combination.

2. Not everyone with ADHD does so well with stimulants long-term. You might have better results by including or swapping to the "second-line" meds, like Wellbutrin (bupropion) or Strattera (atomoxetine), or simply adding an inexpensive SSRI to deal with the remaining crud.

Edited by ron43140

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