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psychotic eyes and their significance

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Posted (edited)

when i was in the ward, i noticed that many of the psychotic patients had a very weird sort of glance (eyes basicly. is that the right word?)

i was then basicly convinced that i could tell psychotic people from nonpsychotic by looking in their eyes fairly easily.

the eyes (to me) basicly look a bit angry, very vigilant and they stay the same regardless to the emotions being expressed (or being tried to express).

NOW. i was trying to make a decent pic of myself to put on facebook (which was a totally futile attempt) and i noticed I EXACTLY have the same eyes. and then i looked at my older picks from like two years ago and the eyes were quite normal at that time. which is confusing to me because at the time the old pics where made i was in a much worse shape than today. and wait. something else was different too! I weren't on meds! particularly not on the currently huge dose of Zyprexa.

so i'm basicly wondering:

1. have i become psychotic or generally sicker without noticing?

2. Is this CAUSED by antipsychotic medication and i was an asshole thinking that psychotics look this way because of their illness?

3. have you ever noticed that the eyes of the psychotic people look weird or am i making this stuff up?

cheerz

polar bear

edit:

ok i just found something. it rather sais eye contact and gazing is not a predictor for whatever but at least someone docs have came up with my idea.

go there and scroll up to eye contact. http://books.google.de/books?id=AtXXTItDH0QC&pg=PA174&lpg=PA174&dq=schizophrenia+gaze&source=bl&ots=qMtC30QUB7&sig=oX3MP851jLgi8FVBqeYFa21EOWs&hl=de&ei=IPxhS6G4H8j2-AaW4cjsAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=schizophrenia%20gaze&f=false

here is a rather crappy and biased compressed version for the lazy.

...poor eye contact ... criterion for affect flattening. ....he found.... both schizophrenics and depressive spenr a significantly smaller proportion of their time gazing at the intervierwer....they found schizophrenics amount of direct gazing to be slightly more than normals...the important discriminator of schizophrenics from normals in this sturdy was not the absolute amount of direct gazing ... but the inconsistency between the pattern of gazing and the intended affect.....NO direct evidence about the relation of eye contact to affective flattening (DUH!)...does not exclude the pissibility that a subsample of schizophrenics, those with flat affect, might exhibit aberrant gazing behaviours, that is, gaze aversion or EXCESSIVE STARING (now that's what i was talking about)

Edited by Überpolarbear

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Posted

Maybe what you are noticing is other psychotic patients being very vigilant because of paranoia.

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Posted

Okay.

So being in a hospital is stressful. And being psychotic is stressful. And stressed people have stressed expressions. Of stress. Normal, human stress that everyone goes through, including you, now and in the past. So what you assumed you saw (some kind of psychosis eye correlation) is probably just you picking up on stressed body language.

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Posted (edited)

Okay.

So being in a hospital is stressful. And being psychotic is stressful. And stressed people have stressed expressions. Of stress. Normal, human stress that everyone goes through, including you, now and in the past. So what you assumed you saw (some kind of psychosis eye correlation) is probably just you picking up on stressed body language.

NO. there were depressive patients, patients with bipolar, anorectics, people who could not cope with death of a loved one and all sort of people other than psychotic. they were all grately stressed but ONLY the psychotics had this kind of eyes i explained. and one particular person i knew there was psychotic but absolutely relaxed and nice and polite and all that but he HAD the eyes i described.

and i was once in ANOTHER ward where they didn't accept schizophrenics (all had mood disorder, personality disorders and anorexia basicly) and i didnt see that kind of eyes there once and there were a lot of patients there.

Edited by Überpolarbear

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Posted

I've seen a correlation between people who commit murders and eyes fro watching forensic files on tru tv. The whites of their eyes are visible on the top, bottom, or both. There are other differences but they are too vague.

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Posted (edited)

I've seen a correlation between people who commit murders and eyes fro watching forensic files on tru tv. The whites of their eyes are visible on the top, bottom, or both. There are other differences but they are too vague.

ok looked at my pics and thank god i'm at least not a murderer.

I'm quite sure bringing this up in this thread will piss off some people really badly if they are not pissed by my thread already. we are talking about schizophrenics who are most of the time not murderers ;)

ant to the other folks. you are missing the "could it be medication induced" part totally.

Edited by Überpolarbear

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Posted

This topic seems rather silly.

I'm not hypothetizing ANYTHING i'm just talking about my personal EXPERIENCE (which could as well be wrong) and i think its a legit topic.

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Posted

This is a link to [link=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/]PubMed[/link]. If there is anything to support what you say, it will be in here. Search. Cite some studies.

I doubt you will find anything because the look of someone's eyes is not a diagnostic tool. It is not a diagnostic tool because the look of a person's eyes can be due to many things and many states of mind or disease can produce similar looks of people's eyes.

The thing about the whites of a person's eyes correlating with violence is urban legend as far as I know. Cite some studies if proposing this is not so.

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Posted (edited)

This is a link to [link=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/]PubMed[/link]. If there is anything to support what you say, it will be in here. Search. Cite some studies.

I doubt you will find anything because the look of someone's eyes is not a diagnostic tool. It is not a diagnostic tool because the look of a person's eyes can be due to many things and many states of mind or disease can produce similar looks of people's eyes.

The thing about the whites of a person's eyes correlating with violence is urban legend as far as I know. Cite some studies if proposing this is not so.

do you even bother reading the thread before posting? i said i'm talking about my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. i made that clear as well as in my first post

3. have you ever noticed that the eyes of the psychotic people look weird or am i making this stuff up?

and i said that later too. i'm not trying to PROVE ANYTHING so i dont need to cite pubmed or something. i just posted it to see whether some other people have experienced it too.

and i agree the thing with the murderer and eyes is urban legend so i dont need to prove that either. dont ask me to prove something i didnt say.

and i never said it's a diagnostic tool either. i never said everyone with wierd eyes is schizophrenic. i rather said some people with schizophrenia look in some different way in MY opinion. thats a HUGE difference.

your call

Edited by Überpolarbear

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Uber, I guess I just jumped to places. I thought you meant that what you observed was how you thought psychosis appeared. That's why the reference to PubMed. If other people had drawn the same conclusion, there would be studies. It'd be where you could get an answer or find support for you observation. I also said that I didn't think you'd find anything, but I gave the link because I know my knowledge is limited.

The comment on whites of the eyes was not directed to you. It was to the poster who suggested it. I should have made that clearer.

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ok i just found something. it rather sais eye contact and gazing is not a predictor for whatever but at least someone docs have came up with my idea.

go there and scroll up to eye contact. http://books.google.de/books?id=AtXXTItDH0QC&pg=PA174&lpg=PA174&dq=schizophrenia+gaze&source=bl&ots=qMtC30QUB7&sig=oX3MP851jLgi8FVBqeYFa21EOWs&hl=de&ei=IPxhS6G4H8j2-AaW4cjsAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=schizophrenia%20gaze&f=false

here is a rather crappy and biased compressed version for the lazy.

...poor eye contact ... criterion for affect flattening. ....he found.... both schizophrenics and depressive spenr a significantly smaller proportion of their time gazing at the intervierwer....they found schizophrenics amount of direct gazing to be slightly more than normals...the important discriminator of schizophrenics from normals in this sturdy was not the absolute amount of direct gazing ... but the inconsistency between the pattern of gazing and the intended affect.....NO direct evidence about the relation of eye contact to affective flattening (DUH!)...does not exclude the pissibility that a subsample of schizophrenics, those with flat affect, might exhibit aberrant gazing behaviours, that is, gaze aversion or EXCESSIVE STARING (now that's what i was talking about)

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Posted

Combat Veterans are often noted for having the "thousand yard stare".

Is this anything like what you've seen, Uber?

521px-WW2_Marine_after_Eniwetok_assault.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Combat Veterans are often noted for having the "thousand yard stare".

Is this anything like what you've seen, Uber?

no not really. the thousand yard stare looks as the person is mentally absent or lost in thoughts or something. the stare i wa was rather interested and direct. maybe too direct. it's the constant same gaze all the time. the weird thing about it is that it stays the same no matter what.

this picture: http://chipmunkapublishing.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=853 is somewhat what i'm talking about. not exactly but somewhat

Edited by Überpolarbear

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Posted (edited)

I haven't read this whole thread, I'm tired. When my father used to go manic, his eyes would go glossy and almost sparkle. My brother said he saw the same in me when I first cracked up.

I remember his glazed stare...it was fecking scary as a kid!

Edited by Slicey

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Posted

Uberpolarbear

I know exactly what you mean, you are talking about the crazy eye. I call it the crazy eye and I have noticed it in other crazy people and others have seen it in me when I experienced severe psychosis. It's like a bugged out stare but the expression is flat, and yes the eyes do sparkle.

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If the whites of the eyes are true, then for reasons of public stafety, I should be locked up ;P

When I was in the mental hospital, I saw what you saw and what the commentor above referred to as Crazy Eye. I chaled it down to either medication or they were in extreme psychosis. I don't know. My brother has it, but he's an ex-drug addict. It's weird, I can't explain it. It's very unnerving though. It's definitely not the same as the thousand yard stare mudpuppy refrenced, or the look McKey was saying people she has.

Of course this is all anecdotal. If I see some one with crazy eyes, I know that doesn't necessarily mean that they are crazy. And not all crazy people have it! So yeah, it's just interesting to talk about.

Now when I was in the mental hospital, one of my friends there was a carribean schizophrenic trans (M to F) crack-addict with not only Crazy Eye, but a Lazy eye as well. That was quite a trip. I miss her actually. She and my roommate at the time protected me while I was in there and made sure I was OK. I have a feeling both are dead now. OK, now I'm depressed.

Sorry, I totally hi-jacked the thread.

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Posted

Kind of off topic, but kind of related...when i started taking meds for my illness especially the anti psychotics my mom would comment that my eyes look dead. Like they lost the life from them and even some of my family noticed it too and said something to my mom about it. So idunno if it's legit or not, but medication did seem to change something in my eyes. Now that i'm off them my mom says they are starting to look back to normal.

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When I am acutely ill, I get the crazy eye. Definitely agree that they sparkle, and appear distanced. To me, it really exists.

When I am on meds, my pupils take up a bigger space than normal, at the moment my pupils are massive, thanks to meds... so my eyes can't win! They look weird whether I am psychotic or medicated.

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Posted

Uberpolarbear

I know exactly what you mean, you are talking about the crazy eye. I call it the crazy eye and I have noticed it in other crazy people and others have seen it in me when I experienced severe psychosis. It's like a bugged out stare but the expression is flat, and yes the eyes do sparkle.

Yes yes yes! I have seen this too!

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Posted

SO I'm like way late to the party and maybe someone already asked this, but did you go around with a clipboard and verify everyone's diagnosis?

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I know this thread's a little old, but wanted to give some links....

As recent as 2009, there are studies affirming that people with Sz have difficulties with facial recognition, social cognition, interpreting body language, displaying emotion physically, all of which might cause a person to have difficulties with eye contact.

This study here (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8817705) tested for eye contact and smile size with an 80% accuracy, so there's definately SOMETHING going on, but it's not a single variable - it's not JUST "crazy eyes".

One study also says: "Compared to the control patients, the nonparanoid schizophrenic patients spoke significantly fewer words and had significantly less eye contact, while the paranoid schizophrenic patients had significantly fewer eyebrow and lower facial movements." This proves that there's no one thing that's true for everyone.

(As a side note, I've always known my levels of eye contact are often inappropriate for the circumstances, and have unintentionally made people uncomfortable or confused because of it. Jury's still out on what exactly my issue is, though.)

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Posted

I know exactly what you are talking about. I had an ex-gf that was a sociopath and when she went through phases of psychosis she would have this angry expression in her eyes. There is indeed a distinct gaze that is associated with psychosis

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Posted (edited)

this the top #1 thing people always comment on about me. my eyes.

 

its the first thing doctors and therapists notice. my paranoid look and my lack of eye contact.

 

a lot of people say i talk with my eyes - they are so bugged out paranoid.

Edited by Michai

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Posted

I've seen a correlation between people who commit murders and eyes fro watching forensic files on tru tv. The whites of their eyes are visible on the top, bottom, or both. There are other differences but they are too vague.

ok looked at my pics and thank god i'm at least not a murderer.

I'm quite sure bringing this up in this thread will piss off some people really badly if they are not pissed by my thread already. we are talking about schizophrenics who are most of the time not murderers :dunce:

ant to the other folks. you are missing the "could it be medication induced" part totally.

This (medication-induced) is the first thing that came to my mind when reading the original post.  My eyes were glazed a lot, I stare (still do), etc.  It has gotten better though since my cocktail has been really good.

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Posted

A three year old zombie thread forced back to life...

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