Trepanist

L-Theanine vs. Benzos, A good alternative?

12 posts in this topic

Hi all. I am currently taking 1.5 mg Klonopin and 20 mg Lexapro daily for OCD.

Both meds work really well. Although 'Special K' has lost it's efficacy after I inadvisedly attempted to taper last year. i couldn't handle the withdrawal symptoms and resumed at a higher dose.

Now I really want to get off of K because I am concerned about long term affects, and my memory is now being afffected by the higher dose. But things go 'real bad' for me when I don't have a a potent benzo in my system.

Up until now I had the view that even if K shortend my life, that the peace it brings makes it worth it. Now I am not so sure.

Anyway, I am considering a much slower taper this time using the Ashton method. And I am pinning my sanity on the use of L-Theanine, an amino acid that calms me as well. The only problem there is that I have to take it every hour to maintain the effects. A thin tightrope to walk every day. Also, when I'm off K, it may not compensate enough.

So.....I am wondering what other's experience is with L-Theanin eis. For those with sever OCD or anxiety, does it work well as a benzo substitute for you?

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, I think it would be better to stay on what is working, I don't see how it could shorten your life. If your dead set on changing meds maybe try Ativan at 2mg or so and see if you can get by with less side effects.

BTW special K is a name used for ketamine as a street drug, you threw me off for a moment there :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't imagine that overloading your body with an amino acid is good while klonopin is bad. I have never read that benzos shorten your life span so if I were you, I wouldn't worry about that. I have never tried L-Theanine so I can't speak to its efficacy, but I would suspect that if it is so efficacious we would have heard about it all over the news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are going to use L-Theanine (which I do not advise), please call your pdoc before starting it, and see if it is okay. Supplements can screw up psychiatric medication.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have used it. Have a whole bottle of it with Suntheanine a trademark. Theanine is a derivitive of green tea and there is considerable research indicating efficacy do a pubmed search and you will see quite a good bit of research supporting it; however my personal experience with it is that it cannot hold a candle to a benzo-any benzo for serious anxiety. That said it does have some distinct calming effect and I think for someone seriously trying a withdrawel schedule it might not be a bad idea to discuss it with your doctor because it does seem to me to ease the negative effects. I am currently trying to ease off Klonpin 3 x .5 mg a day to a PRN status

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do not take benzodiazepines. They open up the chlorine ion channel for GABA transmission and can cause serious cognitive defects and memory problems. Try a natural substitute called Curcumin, coupled with an SSRI such as Prozac and also take L-theanine. I completely solved my severe anxiety, social anxiety, depression and other psychological problems with this above combination. Testaments of serotonin syndrome from combining Curcumin with SSRI's are floating around the web, but I assure you they pose nothing to worry about. I take this combination and I am more than well. xD. Try listening to Alpha or Gamma brainwaves (binaural beats). They certainly work but they must be listened to using headphones. If you are afraid of serotonin syndrome, remember that L-Theanine actually decreases serotonin. Curcumin, although a mild MAO-A and MAO-B inhibitor, modulates serotonin signalling therefore if there is too much; it will down-regulate serotonin release so there is nothing to worry about. It also balances dopaminergic receptor sites as well as cholinergic systems. Acute administration of SSRI's as well as Curcumin both exhibit GABA releasing properties. L-Theanine does increase GABA transmission, mainly by increasing Alpha brainwave activity in the Neocortex of the brain whilst stimulating Gamma transmission in the Limbic system and Amygdala. 

Meditation, exercise and sufficient sleep in combination have been proven countless times to exhibit multiple health benefits equivalent to most pharmaceutical drugs. Exercise up-regulates dopaminergic receptor sites, protects against Amanoid-beta plaques and improves blood flow and increased Hippocampus size. Sleep improves vocabulary and is indeed very useful in the consolidation of information into the long term memory (specifically deep wave, Delta sleep.). meditation increases Melatonin, Serotonin, Dopamine, GABA release by 22%, increased acetylcholine receptor binding affinity and most importantly; cognition, memory and processing speed as well as an increase in satisfaction with life. I hope this information helps you and please do not take Benzodiazepines. Benzo's are tranquilizers and do not treat the underlying cause: they just mask it

Good luck!!!

Jonathon

Edited by SecondaryMrSnox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not proud, but if Benzo shortens life I would be negative years and I'm not even counting the decade I smoked at least two packs of cigarettes a day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SecondaryMrSnox said:

Do not take benzodiazepines.

Benzos can be used safely and effectively for some people.

1 hour ago, SecondaryMrSnox said:

Try a natural substitute called Curcumin, coupled with an SSRI such as Prozac and also take L-theanine.

^^ (I would consult with your DR first before trying anything natural.

1 hour ago, SecondaryMrSnox said:

Try listening to Alpha or Gamma brainwaves (binaural beats). They certainly work but they must be listened to using headphones.

How did you do this (actually listen to brainwaves using headphones)? 

1 hour ago, SecondaryMrSnox said:

 

Meditation, exercise and sufficient sleep in combination have been proven countless times to exhibit multiple health benefits equivalent to most pharmaceutical drugs.

These things may work for people without meds, but not everyone.  Some people need pharmaceutical drugs to get sufficient sleep.  And it is hard when you have depression to do any meditation, exercise, or get any sleep.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SecondaryMrSnox said:

 I take this combination and I am more than well. 

Meditation, exercise and sufficient sleep in combination have been proven countless times to exhibit multiple health benefits equivalent to most pharmaceutical drugs. 

You are more than well? Then you have no business being on a peer support site. We're all crazy all the time, over here, and your more than wellness has nothing to do with us. Fuck off with your wellness, since we're all about the batshit insane.

Also, you don't think that any one of us crazy-ass folks has never heard of meditation, exercise, nor sleep? You don't think that we're not trying our best in this regard, since people like you keep telling us to do them all the damn time? They're either not working, aren't enough, or ain't cutting it for whatever reason. That's why it's called mental illness not mental lack-of-mediation, or mental laziness, or mental more-sleep-needed. 

We're ill, and you're still an unwelcome idiot.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, WinterRosie said:

That's why it's called mental illness not mental lack-of-mediation, or mental laziness, or mental more-sleep-needed

I need to use this line on a few people!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

13 hours ago, SecondaryMrSnox said:

 Testaments of serotonin syndrome from combining Curcumin with SSRI's are floating around the web, but I assure you they pose nothing to worry about. I take this combination and I am more than well.

So...you take Curcumin and an SSRI, and that's fine? It's not OK for the rest of us to take the meds we need, but as long as you approve of a combo, all is hunky-dory?

Fuck off with your anti-med attitude. We are a pro-med and a pro-treatment site, and if you keep this shit up, you will be shown the door in very short order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • By Annad
      Hi guys,
      This is my first time asking the internet for advice so apologies if I screw anything up and for the novel-length post.
      I’m not at immediate risk - things are getting rocky again but I have already made appointments to see a doctor and therapist.
      I would appreciate any feedback, comments, similar experiences, or being pointed towards useful resources.
      In terms of background, I think things went a little off for me around 13. My sleep has been shoddy since. When I was 14 for a year I barely left my room, didn't go to school (not a country where it mattered), would occasionally run away, punched walls and experimented with various forms of self-harm, would spend most of my time in bed staring at the ceiling, often very badly wanted to end it but couldn't inflict that disaster on my parents who then bore the brunt of my anger when I decided that they were to blame for standing in my way. So I thought often about killing them too because that's logical. In retrospect a pretty classic case of angsty teenage depression.
      At one point my sleep was very disturbed for almost a week. I went downstairs to get a yoghurt and insects started crawling all over me and I saw lots of blood. I very vividly remember that I used my fingers to push through my eardrums into my head and then pushed out my eyeballs from behind. I was terrified but internalised it and was probably in denial that it had happened or that it was me who saw that (if that makes sense). I’ve never watched horror films, have never witnessed a car accident, or in fact had anything traumatic happen to me at all. Who knows.
      I eventually got over the worst of it and aside from occasional periods of depression and self-harm nothing much happened until about 2013 when things went south a little bit.
      I felt like I was moving through slush and that people were talking to me underwater. It took a little bit of time, probably around two weeks, for me to get myself to a doctor (I’m stubborn and I thought I might be getting sick again and I was scared I would end up like a close relative whose mental illness has turned her into a zombie). I was immediately diagnosed with depression and prescribed ssris that I took at best sporadically, since I had a deep-down belief that relying on them would mean I was weak (more logic).
      From there on things degenerated somewhat. I began to hear the radio, or someone slamming the door and moving around, but I would head on over to switch the radio off or say hello to my roommate and the radio would already be off and no-one had come home. Then I began to have episodes where I would again feel my hands were pushing through my ears to pop out my eyeballs, and I would dig holes in my chest til I could see my exposed ribs and snap them, and mushy bits would ooze everywhere and there would be a lot of blood and a lot of pain. Seeing this would often trigger a panic attack. I sometimes had panic attacks without images but never images that didn’t trigger absolute panic, since they were fairly terrifying things to witness. Once I had to be physically restrained because I was trying to scratch something out of my arm with my fingernails and by the time someone noticed I had scratched a deep enough wound to leave a pretty gross scar that won’t go away no matter how much bloody bio oil I massage into it. During another episode my boyfriend at the time had come up for a cup of tea or something and I apparently told him things were coming and that he had to take a knife and kill me before things happened. Sometimes I had to self-harm quickly because I could feel things coming and if I could see and feel my hands doing something like that then it was easier to believe that they weren’t doing something else, if that makes any sense.
      I was hospitalised twice in crisis situations but the psychiatric wards were mindnumbing and I was scared that being surrounded by people with serious issues would somehow trigger or emphasise mine so I always got out as soon as I could. I was variously diagnosed with severe anxiety with intrusive thoughts, depression, bpd, psychosis, or preschizophrenic symptoms. At the time I didn’t read anything on the internet or in books as I thought I might be influenced by what I read so I let the doctors do their thing, but at a later date I started reading around and although I identify strongly with descriptions of depression and anxiety (then again I already knew that) and partially with some descriptions of psychosis, I think the diagnoses of schizophrenia or bpd were patently bollocks which has shaken my trust in doctors a little. I was prescribed with anti-depressants, benzodiazepines, and anti-psychotics but even aside from my inherent stubbornness against medication I was in no fit state to stick to a treatment plan so took them erratically, I wouldn’t take them and them someone would notice and force me to take them for a while and then I would stop again etc.
      At some point I moved home and got a very manual job which left me physically exhausted and with no free time so I was in a comforting cycle of work sleep work sleep etc. I was screened again for psychosis but the symptoms had begun to subside and I found that recounting the experience was very distressing so didn’t take any form of treatment further - I was just grateful that it seemed to have stopped and that the whole thing was over.
      Things have been alright for a long time now but I’m having some wobbles and in any case I can’t keep working to the point of exhaustion just to keep from spiralling. I want to be able to have free time and enjoy it without immediately sinking into a cycle where I feel happy and energetic and then flip flop into comatose and then when I get energy again I can’t enjoy it because I have to catch up on everything I didn’t do when I was comatose. I want to be able to do things that are intellectually demanding without grinding to a halt and have happy, fun relationships and most of all I want to seek treatment and finally fess up to what happened and do everything I can so that it doesn't happen again because it's terrifying and it's kind of bollocks that the fear I have of these images is enough to trigger a panic attack because honestly the way these things feed off each other is fairly toxic.
      I know I’ve got depression and anxiety and panic attacks and I’ve read many accounts I identify with and that have helped me consider these things difficult but approachable and certainly not the end of the world.
      It’s the episodes I’d appreciate talking through. I’ve read accounts of intrusive images in relation to OCD and anxiety and I think it must be that, but these accounts haven’t quite rung true in the same way that accounts of depression have with me. I suppose they’re not psychosis or delusions because it’s pretty obvious after that they didn’t happen (or I’d have spent a lot of 2013/14 just splopping my eyeballs back into their sockets like some deranged bungee jumper). Also they just sort of went away after a while but these recent wobbles have me paranoid that they’ll come back.
      Please help me pinpoint what happened so I can try and fix it.
      And if you've made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read.

       
    • By Poem
      I've been on a checking spree. I check that my door is locked multiple times a day. Check, and double check that my oven is off at night (even if I haven't used it at all that day!).
      I also find that I have to do certain things again or I don't feel right/things won't be right (rituals). I have to touch certain things when I go for a walk, I have to say goodnight to certain inanimate objects, I have to thank certain inanimate objects for doing what they are supposed to do anyway...*sigh*
      It has been awhile since this has been so pronounced. At least I am not morbidly obsessing or washing my hands ten times over or going up and down stairs repeatedly! Although I am still very germ cautious and always change from outdoor to indoor clothes, and if rewearing (like jeans) I have a separate place to put them because they are "contaminated."
      Silly brain of mine...I guess I just needed to vent a bit. It all seems so silly, but then it is not.
    • By Closure
      One thing I have discovered over the past several months is that my OCD is very strongly obsessional in character (my other OCD symptoms are comparatively mild), and probably the biggest thing I obsess about is MI itself, including OCD itself. This is to the point that any MI symptoms that I become newly aware of I obsess about intensely, until it becomes not as novel anymore or the symptoms go away altogether. And I really do not know how to think about MI symptoms without obsessing. The problem with this is that people, e.g. in chat, will notice that I am obsessing intensely and point it out, which while making me feel intense shame (I feel shame whenever I become aware of my obsessing), also feels very invalidating, because, after all, these are real symptoms, and if they did not matter I would not be obsessing about them in the first place.
      Case in point, I relatively recently gained insight into my avolition and other negative and disorganized symptoms, which I had been previously oblivious to. As a result I started obsessing about them considerably. And when I was told I was obsessing, it made it feel like my actual concerns about said symptoms were being invalidated, as when I tried to think about them rationally, I could not see how they could not be a problem; after all, it is definitely not normal to, when not nagged to do so, brush one's teeth only once a week (or sometimes, once every two weeks), simply not try to take one's meds on a regular basis at regular times, leave bills unpaid or even unopened for months on end, let one's environment fall into a complete and utter mess without trying to do anything about it, not even try to get any exercise, not be able to maintain regular hours, and so on. I recently have been trying to build structure, through logging and reporting to an accountabilibuddy (my best friend), for actually trying to do these things on a daily basis. But if this is really just all OCD at work, then should I not even try, as these are not actually a problem then? (Other symptoms which are not simply a lack of doing things that are still obvious problems which I try to think about them rationally are feeling like there is an invisible wall around me separating me from everyone else, having inappropriate affect, being unable to understand English or whole conversations which are spoken loudly enough, and so on.)
      So I do not know what to do about this. I am obviously obsessing, but then what I am obsessing about are real problems. Yet being told that I am obsessing makes me feel like the real problems are being dismissed. So what do I do about real problems so that, on one hand, I do not obsess about them, and on the other hand, that I do not let other people dismiss the underlying problems in pointing out that I am obsessing? But I don't know how not to obsess in the first place. I know that I stop obsessing for a while when someone points out that I am obsessing, but it always leaks back in without me noticing, so I have to be told about it again, and again later, and so on. (I do not have insight into it when I have not been told about it recently.)
    • By grape.guice
      Can I ask how does weed affect you? And if you'd say what "disorder(s)" you deal with? Just wondering, it seems too have different affects on different people.. Wonder if it's got something to do with how you're already wired. Personally,. PLEASE INPUT?
    • By grape.guice
      Too in your head to be voices, too loud to be normal thoughts? MAybe i'm talking about different  things here... Do you know what I'm saying if I say thoughts that won't stop talking? Not always a bad thing, but I'm very unresponsive to outside stimulation when I'm like this. It's llike all this information just goes into your mind like BAAM BAM usually accompanied by visuals in the brain (not usually literally visual) just being  supper "absorbed" idk is that the right word? sometimes its random "voices", "loud thoughts" NOT auditory. saying something just plain random.ex "Jerome, I kow you aint been at the grocery store!" or. .. "that's why old ladies don't buy eachhothers facewash" etc... maybe I'm all over the place here maybe I'm looking for some direction. ALso idk I this is EVEN RELATED but hearing the wrong the wrong words out of people's mouths. Like, they say "something" nd I hear "what a fuckin bitch" or I hear "that  was in ur head" and I say "wtf did u just say?!" and they sa y "something"..................... one more thing is that I SOMETIMES INVOLUNTARILY repeat the same phrase over n over(in my head or outloud) . why. if u have ny insight into one or more of these things I woud like to hear about it.. thnx for reading ttyl