Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Überpolarbear

Cymbalta (Duloxetine) for ADHD or other concentration issues?

9 posts in this topic

Hi,

(now that i'm free of mood swings and (maybe) psychosis or whatever) I have realized that i have probably a very massive case of AD(H)D.

The problem is that my doc is totally convinced that i have some sort of psychosis so i'm absolutely not going to get any sort of stimulant out of him although he also mentioned the possibility of ADHD. He didn't directly mentioned that I could have ADHD per se. The thing is i was diagnosed with Asperger's before and he believes the Asperger's diagnosis is Bullshit and he said you know sometimes people with ADHD produce positive Asperger's ... test results or diagnoses or whatever.

So i'm seriously "doing my homeworks" to find out what i could take for the inattention and concentration problems i have (which i have always had but when you are totally depressed or agitated as hell you dont really care but now i do care)

I'm basicly looking for some sort of ADHD relief which is not an stimulant and not Strattera (cant tolerate and insurance wont pay for it) so it will most probably be an antidepressant (which the insurance will also pay). And doc would also not prescribe wellbutrin because it's a dopamin reuptake inhibitor (psychosis)

So long story short, I went through all the possible antidepressants and Cymbalta looks quite good. It inhibits the uptake of both noradrenalin and serotonin (1:1) and to lesser extent dopamin (which is good). Note that it inhibits the uptake of noradrenalin 20 times as much as Venlafaxine (effexor) and the Nor. is the thing good for ADD. as well as dopamin.

And then there is this small study where they tested it on some kids with ADD and it worked: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hup.1188/abstract

Ok whatever, Have anyone ever tried cymbalta for ADHD or any other sort of problem with concentration or attention?

Cheerz

bear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm no expert, but have worked as a Pharmacy Tech on and off since I was 18 and I have never heard of it being used for ADD. Also being ADD myself have never been told about it. I may ask my dad (pharmacist) if he has heard of anything like that though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your pdoc is concerned about ADHD but won't prescribe a stim, what are his plans going forward? I think his plans are probably going to be more sound than internet research done with us, none of us have anything more than unreliable anecdotal thoughts on this. I am concerned that you are minimizing what I saw to be pretty heavy psychosis from a lot of what you posted and have self diagnosed with something you now want to figure out how to treat without really listening to your pdoc.

You don't sound well, tbh.

well i'm having a shitty day. i'm indeed not well. but you are assuming i'm having heavy psychosis by reading a handful of posts (are you a doctor?)

i have been diagnosed with ADHD before and have been prescribed ritalin and strattera before. ritalin was good but doctor pushed me to take 50 mg which was too much and strattera was bad. and changing doctor lead to different diagnosis and ... whatever.

i'm wondering which is more psychotic. my old posts or diagnosing me with "heavy psychosis" by just reading them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got off the phone with my dad I needed to ask him something else, but I asked him about the Cymbalta for ADD. Cymbalta and Prozac are basically the same thing, one generic fluoxetine the other is duloxotine. The Cymbalta also being used for Fybromyalga. He has never heard of Cymbalta being used for ADD. He does keep up on current drug uses and new uses. But as a disclaimer* he is not a complete expert, just a pharmacist that I think does his job darn well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may or may not be myself (maybe old self) because i have done (and am still doing) a great deal of (IMHO very successful) talk therapy and have changed my meds quite a bit (muchas less zyprexa with doc's direction). I admit that i have a rather unique personality and it might have become even "uniquer" due to "being more myself" (because of less zyprexa but much more due to the psychoanalysis i do). I don't really belive in the Schizophrenia diagnosis anymore really. It's quite possible that i have schizoid or maybe a pinch of schizotypical PD and that would explain why i sound weird (apart from english being my third or fourth language and the possible ADHD ;-) AND it's 1 am AND i've had an extremely bad day. i'm indeed confused. but the ADHD idea is all but new. it goes back to 1999.

Edited by Überpolarbear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got off the phone with my dad I needed to ask him something else, but I asked him about the Cymbalta for ADD. Cymbalta and Prozac are basically the same thing, one generic fluoxetine the other is duloxotine. The Cymbalta also being used for Fybromyalga. He has never heard of Cymbalta being used for ADD. He does keep up on current drug uses and new uses. But as a disclaimer* he is not a complete expert, just a pharmacist that I think does his job darn well.

Thank you very much. i just saw the study and went yay ok cool. I found cymbalta quite compelling also because there are all these studies around that it can be given to schizophrenics. in case that i actually have it as my doc says. I cant see why it shouldn't work because it does the same thing as desipramin (particularly muchas noradrenalin RE).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got off the phone with my dad I needed to ask him something else, but I asked him about the Cymbalta for ADD. Cymbalta and Prozac are basically the same thing, one generic fluoxetine the other is duloxotine. The Cymbalta also being used for Fybromyalga. He has never heard of Cymbalta being used for ADD. He does keep up on current drug uses and new uses. But as a disclaimer* he is not a complete expert, just a pharmacist that I think does his job darn well.

Cymbalta is almost the same as prozac? I was considering switching to cymbalta, but if this is true it likely won't be of much help to me then :( Isn't Cymbalta a SNRI? I know prozac has a higher affinity for NE than many other SSRIs, but I guess I assumed ADs in two different classes would be more different.

Edited by chicchick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cymbalta is almost the same as prozac? I was considering switching to cymbalta, but if this is true it likely won't be of much help to me then :( Isn't Cymbalta a SNRI? I know prozac has a higher affinity for NE than many other SSRIs, but I guess I assumed ADs in two different classes would be more different.

Cymbalta is NOT the same as prozac. it has very high afinity for NE. even very much higher than effexor. 20x 3x higher. and a little of afinity for dopamine. prozac doesnt have ANY afinity for NE.

Oh i'm so stupid. Cymbalta has 3 times higher affinity than effexor not 20 times. I mistaked it with Milnacipran. Sorrryyyyy

source:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18622372

Edited by Überpolarbear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cymbalta is almost the same as prozac? I was considering switching to cymbalta, but if this is true it likely won't be of much help to me then :( Isn't Cymbalta a SNRI? I know prozac has a higher affinity for NE than many other SSRIs, but I guess I assumed ADs in two different classes would be more different.

Cymbalta is NOT the same as prozac. it has very high afinity for NE. even very much higher than effexor. 20x higher. and a little of afinity for dopamine. prozac doesnt have ANY afinity for NE.

My mistake, I should have clarified, I meant 5-HT which often leads to indirectly effecting NE. As far as I believe (I could be wrong, not a doctor) I know Prozac has a realtively high affinity for 5-HT and is one of the less selective of the SSRIs, with Paxil being the only AD that is even less selective than Prozac. Prozac, and to a greater extent, Zoloft, also has a higher affinity (Though likely insignificant) for DA than other SSRIs, such as Luvox, Celexa, and Lexapro. Because DA is converted into NE, I would assume the indirect effects of these two factors combined, more so the 5-HT effect, would lead to a general increase in NE levels.

That's interesting about Cymbalta though. I wonder what the NE affinity of that drug is like compared to conventional stimulants like amphetamine.

EDIT: I just wanted to add sources to justify these claims.

Sources-

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v28/n2/full/1300057a.html

http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/7/3/170.full

Edited by chicchick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Similar Content

    • By cloudmonger
      I'm feeling so down & hopeless. This Lamictal... It doesn't seem to be doing much.
      I went up to 150mg and it doesn't seem to be helping my symptoms much....if anything i just feel more blah & apathetic. I want to lay in bed all day :-( My pdoc is always booked up and i can't see her for 2-3 weeks....She doesn't have any other suggestions really considering everything I've tried (with bad side effects). Only random thing she suggested was Lyrica (seems for people with Pain or anxiety - which is not my main problem??!)
      Also, I'm trying to get into a new therapist and the woman has not replied. I've emailed, called twice and nothing??? I hope she contacts me tomorrow I'm getting desperate.
      I hate taking medications when they don't really help.
    • By cloudmonger
      Just increased to 150mg. I had been on 100mg for 6 weeks. I don't know if it's just coincidence, but I've been feeling more "Blah" ever since. Not sedated or tired - just that increased apathy-I-don't-care-just-stare-fog that never seems to go away.
      Question is: Do you feel that Lamictal at lower doses is more activating that at high doses? I will continue to titrate upwards - just having a tough time figuring out if it's working for me and what dose I should stay at. If I continue at this level of depression (with the apathy) I really need to come up with a solution & add-on that works for me.
      I feel I'm running of good options considering what I've already tried.
    • By t3chhy_guy92
      Hi guys so im starting my first day of treatment tomorrow, 1/20/17. I must say I am extremely happy to be at this stage and be fully functional. I will give you an insight as to my past. I have struggled with substance abuse for about the past 7 years or so. 
      I wont get into too much details, but I had my share of tough patches...blackouts, chain smoking, near death experiences. Anyway the point being is im still alive today and I am taking medicine to cope with everything. I am writing to you to give me some advice on what to expect while taking this and how to make it through the rough patches, so I've have heard. 
      Please comment in this thread below I would really appreciate it. I am taking Citalopram.
    • By Markusseven77
      Before I get into the neurological symptoms, let me give you a synopsis of my background and family history. Both my parents smoke and my dad was always a heavy drinker. My mom had GERD / Acid Reflux pretty much her whole life and it should be noted that she's basically 100% Norwegian (I've read that Northern Europeans have GERD and gastrointestinal issues more than anyone else - same with the Irish). My mom was also recently tested positive for Celiac Disease (our diets growing up was filled with wheat products, so connecting the dots here, I think she was being bombarded with gluten and her body couldn't handle it). She would have severe mood swings, especially towards my dad (who is now passed on). Her acid reflux got so bad that she went in for an endoscopy and they told her that she had Barrett's Esophagus. She's still alive to this day though and seems to be holding up reasonably well. My sister also has severe acid reflux and panic attacks. Now to get to my own history. I was born in 1983. As a baby, I had severe eczema, and would rub certain areas of my body (such as my wrists) raw on the carpet, because I was constantly itchy. I would also constantly spit up breast-milk and even the baby formula. My parents had a hard time figuring out what to feed me! We would also drink tons of cow's milk. That finally hit a brick wall around age 25 (in 2008), when I started noticing that if I drank straight cow's milk I would end up with (and still do end up with if I drink it) sulfur burps which taste and smell like rotten eggs. I even tried drinking raw cow's milk one time and the result was the same, I was burping rotten egg smelling burps and would get diarrhea! This is also around the time when I noticed my acid reflux getting worse and worse. 
      In 2009, I started lifting weights again after taking a long break from high school. When I would do any squatting motion exercises such as dead-lifts or squats, I'd almost pass out because I couldn't catch my breath afterwards. I finally went in for an endoscopy and they told me that my esophagus was raw and red. I also should note that I've read getting anesthesia and all the drugs they give you during that time, can cause long-term psychological issues, especially anxiety, which I never really had until after that year. I realized that I couldn't do those squatting exercises or anything that put pressure on the abdomen area, since it would push acid back up into my esophagus. I decided to start lifting weights on an empty stomach and that did work for awhile but I couldn't figure out why my acid reflux was still so bad. Acid shooting back up into the esophagus, is caused by inflammation. This affects the Vagus Nerve (which is the longest cranial nerve). Some of the main functions of the Vagus Nerve include,
      1. Breathing
      2. Speech
      3. Sweating
      4. Helping in keeping the larynx open during breathing
      5. Monitoring and regulating the heartbeat
      6. Informing the brain of the food that is ingested and food that has been digested
      7. The Vagus Nerve performs the major function of emptying the gastric region of food
      Any damage to the vagus nerve causes Gastroparesis which is losing the muscular function in the stomach and intestines. This results in food being emptied slowly, that leads to other problems such as fermentation of food in the stomach and food getting compressed into hard pellets which can cause severe problems if the pellets get stuck in the intestine. Especially in people with diabetes, when sugar levels get high and are not well controlled, it can result in the vagus nerve damage. This can result in anxiety / panic attacks, OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder), trouble swallowing, chills, asthma-like symptoms, heart palpitations, tingling / numbness in extremities and limbs, blood in the stool, hard of breathing, anxiety attack-like symptoms, canker sores, nightmares (including hypnogogic and hypnopompic auditory / visual hallucinations, such as hearing a gun shot upon waking up, even though no gun was fired), dry mouth, heart attack-like symptoms, and more (I had all these symptoms too btw). I believe that since our bodies are intolerant to wheat and dairy products, it is causing inflammation in the body, which then causes all these other symptoms. 
      So at that point, I began having hallucinations (including hypnopompic and hypnagogic hallucinations). They were mainly auditory hallucinations and some (but fewer) visual hallucinations. They started around 2013, when I got sick with the flu and also had an in-grown toenail (I had to get it cut out by the doctor and it was the worst pain of my life!). I was extremely religious back then (I left my faith last year at end of 2015) and felt like these were omens or signs for some of the things that were deemed ‘sinful’. I then had a breakup with a gluten-free who lived in Montana and the auditory hallucinations continued. I’ve been having them again starting in 2016 after getting sick with a chest respiratory infection (I’m seeing a trend here with getting sick and having these), which I believe were caused by the Autumn Rhinitis / Hay Fever Allergies. I was at the gym around the start of August 2016, and I felt like I couldn’t catch my breath after each set of lifting. I went home and haven’t been back to the gym since. I was having trouble breathing just walking up a flight of stairs, and it was a daily nightmare until I started looking into ways to help solve my issues (which I’ll get into in a minute). I also don’t have a great sleep schedule from working late night shifts, so I’m typically always sleep deprived. I should also mention that I think I have formed P.T.S.D. (PTSD - Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) from watching a music video where it showed a death. The image of the woman dying kept playing in my head (this also happened around August 2016).
      Then on top of all that, I was lifting weights 2 times a week (full body workouts), doing H.I.I.T. (High Intensity Interval Training) a couple times a week in the morning, AND working night shifts. On top of all that, my dad died last year (October 3, 2015) and within a week afterwards around October 10th, I ended up with appendicitis so I had to get the appendectomy surgery to get my appendix removed. A few weeks later, I walked away from my faith (not due to emotional reasons, but due to extensive research, which was already in the process starting at the beginning of 2015). So I lost my dad, my faith and my appendix within a month's time period. It put a lot of stress on me I think. I’m 33 years old, so still somewhat young, but I think I was pushing my body to the limit, and it’s been affecting my brain chemistry. Not only that, but recently, I put the other dots to the puzzle and found out that I also have gluten intolerance / Celiac / Coeliac, so I’ve stopped eating gluten (and dairy) products. I also have done a few sessions of AAT (Advanced Allergy Therapy), by a doctor named Dr. Jill Cohn in the San Francisco / Berkeley / Oakland Bay Area. You don’t even have to be there in person for her to treat you, she does it all online through a conference call on a site similar to Skype. You can watch testimonials on YouTube as well, and I’m here to tell you that her system did cure me of Ragweed allergies. I now understand that because I was pushing my body to the limit as well as trying to stay 500 calories below maintenance (to cut fat and get shredded), that my body wasn’t getting the proper nutrients and vitamins due to eating wheat and gluten (as well as dairy). This damages the alveoli and villi in the intestinal tract which are crucial for absorbing the nutrients from your food. I also found out that my body reacts poorly to chocolate as well. Chocolate is a 'stimulant' and has been proven to affect the brain the same way that cannabis / marijuana will. This could be some of the problems you all are facing as well. At that point, your body is so run down, that it will start attacking ‘harmless’ invaders, such as ragweed pollen, pet dander or even just simple dust particles, which this process of your body in attack mode, will cause inflammation, hence the reason I was having trouble breathing (my body developed exercise-induced / allergy-induced asthma). Not only that, but when your body is so run down and not getting the proper nutrition, it can cause psychosis and schizophrenic symptoms as well! I started taking a ton of supplements and they’ve helped tremendously.
      Here are a few to get you started. Try these and eat a balanced diet for a couple months. I’ll bet you start to feel better and the hallucinations diminish.
      1. Vitamin D3 (Jarrow Brand 5,000IU – take two to four per day) – This is especially necessary if you live above the 37 degree parallel (latitude) in the Fall and Winter (typically from September to March). The sun only produces Vitamin D3 in our body when it is 50 degrees (altitude not temperature) above the horizon and even during the Spring and Summer, this only occurs from around 10AM in the morning to 2-3PM in the afternoon. So you have only a 4 to 5 hour window in the morning to afternoon when the sun is producing Vitamin D3, which most people aren't really out during those times, because of work schedule. This is why around 75 to 80% of the world population are D3 deficient! A good source of information on this is Dr. John Cannell. Go research how vital and important D3 is for us! You want your ng/ml (nano-grams per milliliter of blood) to be from 50 to 100 (or even slightly over 100 is fine too!).
      2. Magnesium (CALM BRAND) – Magnesium is the driver for Vitamin D3. It’s very important and we don’t get enough of it in our diet on average.
      3. Vitamin C (take around 2,000mg per day) – Look up Dr. Thomas Levy and Dr. Linus Pauling for good information on this. The Liposomal type of Vitamin C is the best kind!
      4. Vitamin K2 (different from Vitamin K1 – Get the Jarrow Brand called Vitamin K-Right) – Millions of people take calcium supplements to maintain healthy bones. Yet few patients or physicians realize that optimizing bone integrity involves more than taking a single mineral supplement. A critical additional component for bone and cardiovascular health is vitamin K2. Recent research has revealed that, without vitamin K2, calcium regulation is disrupted. In fact, low levels of vitamin K2 are associated with an increased risk of heart disease and atherosclerosis. K2 is the gateway that allows calcium to get to your bones. When you take vitamin D3, your body creates more of these vitamin K2-dependent proteins, the proteins that will move the calcium around. They have a lot of potential health benefits. But until the K2 comes in to activate those proteins, those benefits aren't realized. So, really, if you're taking vitamin D, you're creating an increased demand for K2. And vitamin D and K2 work together to strengthen your bones and improve your heart health.For so long, we've been told to take calcium for osteoporosis... and vitamin D3, which we know is helpful. But then, more studies are coming out showing that increased calcium intake is causing more heart attacks and strokes. That created a lot of confusion around whether calcium is safe or not. But that's the wrong question to be asking, because we'll never properly understand the health benefits of calcium or vitamin D3, unless we take into consideration K2. That's what keeps the calcium in its right place.
      5. Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) Ubiquinol – it’s a substance similar to a vitamin. It is found in every cell of the body. Your body makes CoQ10, and your cells use it to produce energy your body needs for cell growth and maintenance. It also functions as an antioxidant, which protects the body from damage caused by harmful molecules. (Get the Jarrow Brand – no I don’t work for them, but I’ve heard they are the best in all of these, and it’s what I take).
      6. Vitamin B-Right (Jarrow) which has all of the B vitamins in it. Niacin (B3) has proven to be very helpful for those with Schizophrenia and Psychosis. Look up Dr. Abram Hoffer and his research on mental illness and Niacin. Careful with Niacin in huge quantities, as it will cause a 'flushing' effect, but you still want enough to get the benefits.
      7. Oxylent (which is one of the best tasting and best multi-vitamins out there in my opinion). It’s got most of all you need in there when included with what I mentioned above.
      (Those are the main ones above, but here are a few other supplements I take. ChlorOxygen, Serrapeptase {SerraGold Brand}, mushroom supplement called 'Breathe' by New Chapter Life-shield, HealthForce Green Alchemy Protein Powder, HealthForce Vitamineral Green, Probiotics, MSM, Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar, local honey, and avocados for potassium, along with getting at least a half gallon of water per day - which I drink at least 32 oz. to 50 oz. of water on an empty stomach every morning). Get a good sleep regimen as well!
      Within a month of taking all this (I started on November 2nd, 2016), I’m now feeling about 95% back to my normal self. The other 5% is caused by my poor sleeping habits, as well as stress. I now realize that these psychological issues were all subconscious from the heavy religious indoctrination. If I had never been introduced to these religious ideas, I’m sure I’d not have these particular religious themed hypnopompic and hypnagogic hallucinations. When it first started, I was seeing visuals such as numbers and objects floating in the air upon waking up, which, they’d disappear within a few seconds. I also hear voices, which would say terrible things, and then the voices would continue in my head as if it were having dialogue with me in my own mind. I would feel like God hated me, due to the content of what was being said. I’m pretty sure I have some sort of religious trauma after leaving my faith and also, after my dad dying within the last year (2015). They actually have a name for this type of PTSD and it’s RTS (Religious Trauma Syndrome). You can find some good material through Dr. Marlene Winell online if you suffer from the religious form of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). Anyways, I hope all of this helps someone else who may be going through similar! Just know you’re not alone and it’s more than likely happening because of nutrient deficiency and/or a traumatic experience you suffered as well as your diet if you are gluten intolerant / lactose intolerant. These aren’t devils, demons, hobgoblins or ghouls harassing you, this is all natural phenomena and it can be treated with the right diet, the right supplements and proper sleep! I am still getting cross-contaminated (or there is a cross-reactor food that mimics gluten and/or dairy) somewhere in my diet, so my psychological issues persist, including waking up feeling like something is trying to talk to me in my mind. I am trying to figure that out now. But they also have supplements you can take that will break down gluten if you are accidentally 'glutened.' Here is a study I found from WW2, that correlates to mental disease and gluten / wheat below. 
      "One of the first hints that these circumstances could have implications for the psychological sciences was the observation that, in several countries, hospitalization rates for schizophrenia during World War II dropped in direct proportion to wheat shortages. In the United States, where over that same period the consumption of wheat rose rather than diminished, such rates increased instead (Dohan, 1966a,b). In South Pacific islands with a traditionally low consumption of wheat, schizophrenia was only found in 1 person out of 30,000. When Western grain products were introduced into their society, it dramatically rose to 1 person out of 100! (Dohan et al., 1984)."
    • By enriquegm82
      Hello,
      I have bipolar II diagnosis and I'm trying Lamictal 100mg (lamotrigine) and I don't feel any antidepressant effect.  I would like to know what dose do you take and what dose do you consider to be a range where it mostly works for bipolar depression.  My pdoc has told me that for bipolar depression the range is usually between 100 and 200mg.  I have read people that takes even up to 900mg!!
      How much time should I stay on 100mg before I realize that I need to increase the dose?
      Please share with me your experiences with Lamictal.
      Thanks!
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Dx: Bipolar II, OCD, Insomnia.
      Current Meds: Paxil 40mg, Mirtazapine 30mg, Klonopin 4mg, Lyrica 75mg TID, Amisulpride 50mg, Lamictal 100mg