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I am actually a FIRM believer in not allowing people with MI to own guns. The dangerous risks outweigh the safety that they may bring. There are definite risks, - suicide, mass murder... anything could happen when you are psychotic or in a state of panic or rage. It's just not good. I don't think we should be allowed guns. I know my mate won't allow a gun in the house because of me. We'd like one for safety, but can't have one because I am unpredictable. MI stigma sucks but in this case, I feel it is real.

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I have no desire to ever own or shoot a gun. I also think there should be a bit more “gun control” in some form in the US—although I’m not sure what form(s) that would take. However, I don’t think my MI should preclude me from being able to buy or shoot a gun. Not sure how panic disorder or anxiety with agoraphobia for instance make me more dangerous with a gun than an average person or say, a person with poor impulse control or anger management issues who doesn’t technically have an MI but maybe also isn’t the ideal gun owner.

I’m also not sure how enforcing a stricter rule about MI and guns would work exactly. How would the authorities know who has an MI? Would they pull up everyone’s health records and look at the diagnostic codes? Would it be all or just some diagnostic codes that would disqualify someone? Or just people who had been inpatient? What about IOP/PHP programs?

Or would doctors be in charge of reporting patients they don’t think should have access to a gun? What about people who are undiagnosed and untreated? Or people seeing a therapist but not a doctor?

What about people who are well-treated by meds/therapy and haven’t been symptomatic for years? And would anyone who was ever diagnosed with anything be permanently banned from owning a gun? What about someone who was depressed for a couple years but then got "better" via meds or therapy or whatever? Could they apply to have their gun rights reinstated and would their doctor(s) have to certify that they’re safe to own a gun again?

Edited by aquarian
Changed typo "stricture" to "stricter"

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i'm in support of very strong gun control and basically repealing the second amendment. american is gun fucking crazy and the police are militarized!

that said, i should never be allowed to have a gun really. and not because i would go shoot up a school or shoot someone generally. i would totally use it to kill myself, though, and it'd be a lot easier than my current plans. if it were in the garage or something, there're so many times i would've just been dead. so i think it really plays on those without impulse control who become actively suicidal at times. or struggle with it generally. i do also though think we should have a right to die. but that's a separate issue. 

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When my family came over here to visit, my Dad kept talking to guests at the motels or hostels about gun control. Unprompted. He was adamant that stricter gun control is unneeded in the US because there are only ten thousand or so deaths a year due to guns. As though that were a winning point in any gun control argument.

I usually fled the room at the first sniff of this topic because these were always foreigners from countries with strict gun control. Just like the country he was visiting. I also didn't want to be seen as related to the man saying these things. 

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I am still a firm believer that a MI person should not own a gun. Simply for the fact of suicide, not necessarily shooting up places.

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The evidence is mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violence, including gun violence, than perpetrators of violence. Where a motivation can be be determined among mass murderers it is highly unlikely it is mental illness. I feel sometimes mental illness is being used as a scapegoat. The problem is complex and people want short, pat answers. Mass murders are rare considering all forms of gun violence so there may not be a common link. Each may be unique in it its' motivation.

    

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2 hours ago, notloki said:

The evidence is mentally ill are more likely to be victims of violence, including gun violence, than perpetrators of violence. Where a motivation can be be determined among mass murderers it is highly unlikely it is mental illness. I feel sometimes mental illness is being used as a scapegoat. The problem is complex and people want short, pat answers. Mass murders are rare considering all forms of gun violence so there may not be a common link. Each may be unique in it its' motivation.

    

You are right. The mentally ill are used as scapegoats. The "we're not like them" othering comes into play here. How many mass murders were committed because because the murderer was depressed or delusional? The only one that comes to mind is Andrea Yates and she turned out to be more of a tragic figure than a monster. The fact is that most people who commit mass murder do so out of anger or political reasons (terrorism) or hatred (racism or homophobia). But it's all to easy to blame the mentally ill. 

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On 6/15/2016 at 11:32 AM, water said:

Of course they people are mentally ill. But it doesn't matter. 

The takeaway for me is: BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN AUTOMATIC RIFLES.

Everyone can keep their damn handguns for ';protection' - though many endup in the hands of kids who accidentally shoot themselves.

Why do we need automatic rifles????They are not used to shoot deer, they are not used for self defense. They are used for mass murder. 

Not sure about commenting but why do evil people get a pass?  Why does murder = MI?  I know more then a couple people who have MI and they are kind gentle types who wouldn't hurt a fly.  Is there some chance that for whatever reason people think its perfectly "ok" to murder people because of their belief in something.  I don't know that they think they are evil.  And maybe sometimes we define Evil wrong but I just don't think every killer is mentally ill.  I lived next to a Biker gang that murdered people and it was all rational to them.   And being around them I "understood" while not agreeing of course.

And I know gun talk is the death of conversations but the idea of having guns has nothing to do with hunting.  Nothing to do with protecting your family.  The intent was to make it impossible for an evil government to roll over the population.  At least not easily.  Every dictatorship starts with gathering up all the guns and in some cases failure to do so was death.  Oh!  And we don't have automatic rifles or Military assault rifles.  Those have been banned a long time ago.  A military rifle fires as long as you hold the trigger down.  *Some just 3 shot bursts.  Every civilian gun (With a few exceptions for things pre ban) requires pressing the trigger for each shot. 

There are enough guns floating around to arm everyone.  A "ban" is just a law to make us feel better about ourselves.  Its not (possible) or practical its not right.

I don't hunt.  But I do know that some hunters use military (Non Full Auto) rifles like the SKS to hunt.  I think a hunter would laugh at someone using an AR15 to hunt with because its a piece of junk.  It "looks" like a Military rifle (The M16) which is also a piece of garbage.

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Since then I've learned that people use semi automatic weapons for fun.

At shooting galleries.

Trump is speaking today for the NRA. In front of a huge american flag.
How wonderful. YES to guns. NO to health insurance. 

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Does anyone remember Andrea Yates? She didn't use a gun to kill her children, but she was delusional and drowned them. She had a psychotic disorder and they speculated she had bipolar as well.

Stigma sucks, but there's always a little bit of fact in a rumor. A lot of violent crimes have unfortunately been committed by those who were mentally ill at the time. They usually end up in regular prison though, when they should be in a hospital, where they can be treated and rehabilitated. Sad, but true. James Holmes is another one. He was off his rocker when he shot up the Batman movie.I could name more mentally ill people who used guns violently but my point is, the stigma the general public gives us sucks, but what sucks even more is that a lot of violent offenders often do have some form of MI.

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People who have a mental illness are significantly more likely to be the victims of violent crime than the perpetrators.

Quote

Myth: People with mental health problems are violent and unpredictable.

Fact: The vast majority of people with mental health problems are no more likely to be violent than anyone else. Most people with mental illness are not violent and only 3%-5% of violent acts can be attributed to individuals living with a serious mental illness. In fact, people with severe mental illnesses are over 10 times more likely to be victims of violent crime than the general population. You probably know someone with a mental health problem and don't even realize it, because many people with mental health problems are highly active and productive members of our communities.

https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/index.html

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On 1/4/2017 at 0:35 AM, aquarian said:

I’m also not sure how enforcing a stricture rule about MI and guns would work exactly. How would the authorities know who has an MI? Would they pull up everyone’s health records and look at the diagnostic codes? Would it be all or just some diagnostic codes that would disqualify someone? Or just people who had been inpatient? What about IOP/PHP programs?

Here's how it works now.

When you fill out a background check form, they ask if you have ever been  adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a mental institution. The key word is adjudicated. If the courts have never gotten involved in your treatment, you can honestly answer that question no, and any MI you might have is irrelevant to your right to purchase a gun. 

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

Question 11f  is the relevant item. L

It's the FBI the gun shop is calling to run your background check, and the Bureau is using NICS, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. (Yeah, I think they forced the acronym, too.) NICS aggregates information from three different sources: their own database, which is comprised of information on criminal records submitted by state and local law enforcement agencies, the Interstate Identification Index, which records people's criminal histories, and NCIC, the National Crime Information Center, which does basically more of the same. 

The states are responsible for submitting mental health records on those they've adjudicated as mentally defective, or committed, but there isn't any federal law requiring them to do it, and some states have actively resisted because of privacy concerns. 

Records of who bought what are immediately deleted from the FBI system as soon as permission is granted or denied. The only records that continue to exist are the actual paper forms you fill out at your gun dealer. Those go into three ring binders they have to keep for 20 years. I imagine most of them end up in stacks in basements. NICS has been in use for 18 years and in that time about 28,000 people have been denied for mental health reasons. 

In my state, if you have a concealed carry permit, so long as you pass the background check you can walk out of a gun store with anything you want at any time. Anyone can purchase a long gun at any time-hell, you can buy hunting rifles at the local feed stores. Without a carry permit there's a seven day waiting period on handguns.

 

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On 8/3/2017 at 5:09 PM, Gearhead said:

 

In my state, if you have a concealed carry permit, so long as you pass the background check you can walk out of a gun store with anything you want at any time. Anyone can purchase a long gun at any time-hell, you can buy hunting rifles at the local feed stores. Without a carry permit there's a seven day waiting period on handguns.

 

In my state, if you have a weapons carry licence you don't even have to go through a background check, I just used mine to buy a sweet Taurus TCP at the gigantic gunshop next to my house.

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