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mellifluous

SZ/SZA diagnosis? Q: do you believe you/we actually have a brain disease?

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I would say psychosis is the result of a chemical imbalance. I say this because when I began hearing voices a year and a half ago, it felt eerily familiar- like anxiety and depression with which I was diagnosed at 12. I decided a long time ago that anxiety and depression are just chemical imbalances. Why else would depression respond to medications and anxiety send hot chills through my legs like every other time I experienced severe anxiety or legitimate danger. Anxiety causes an adrenaline spike. They say depression is caused by a loss of seratonin, norepinephrine, dopamine... 

But I don't think that makes us bad. There are tons of incredible people who happen to have MIs. Check it: http://www.biography.com/people/groups/mental-illness

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I personally do not believe in the chemical imbalance theory, because MI may very well be due to, say, miswiring of one sort or another, rather than just too much or too little of certain neurotransmitters.

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No.

 

I believe we have an opening to another reality. The causal plane. It presents in each of us differently because it has to first filter through our subconscious before it reaches our conscious state.

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50 minutes ago, tiredg said:

No.

 

I believe we have an opening to another reality. The causal plane. It presents in each of us differently because it has to first filter through our subconscious before it reaches our conscious state.

That's pretty out there, tiredg. Not sure this is a helpful comment. 

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For those speculating about the causes of the symptoms discussed in this thread (or indeed any thread on these boards) belief doesn't enter into it. The brain is a physical organ of the body, and our ability to think and feel in a normal way is dependent upon it functioning properly. As a physical object, its structure and processes can be observed, measured and, eventually, understood and predicted. That process is called science, and as far as the brain is concerned, it still has a ways to go. Belief based upon observations made via the scientific process is called hypothesis. Hypotheses validated by testing are called theories. Theories further validated by additional testing have the status of accepted theories, at least until further information arises to cast doubt on them. Here at Crazyboards, we give very little credit to speculation that doesn't have at least a hypothetical basis behind it put forward by a qualified researcher. If you have come across a new theory about the causes of your MI, by all means share it with us, but cite your sources. Otherwise, we have no reason to assume you're not just guessing.

Also, tiredg, I might gently suggest the aphorism that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs" and ask whether in this case might it not be possible that the fact that you are entertaining an extraordinary belief could be a symptom of the condition itself? You might wish to give it some thought.

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Cerberus, here we are talking about what ideas our (likely psychotic) brains have come up with for our MIs, not whether those ideas have any validity whatsoever from a scientific standpoint. It is like when I have been feeling like everyone was watching me the last two days. Of course rationally they were not, but it still very much felt that way nonetheless, to the point that I was actually acting on my delusions. This is the same sort of thing. We may rationally know things as you stated it, but that does not stop us from feeling differently and from even acting on how we feel.

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Closure -

Understood. And in that case, when you feel and, particularly, act upon what you know rationally to be false, it becomes a clear symptom of MI. The OP is searching for real answers. Providing responses that you know to be rationally false does not help the OP arrive at a realistic self-assessment. The OP did clearly state an interest in hearing whether people's views were based on studies or not. And here on CB we do not indulge in wild speculation about MI, on any board, lest it derail another member from following a course of treatment.

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On 1/2/2017 at 4:24 AM, saintalto said:

In good times it tells me I'm making everything up and I don't need any pills. 

 

This is the story of my life. 

I don't have any hallucinations so I can't relate completely but yeah...

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On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 2:47 PM, heilmania said:

That's pretty out there, tiredg. Not sure this is a helpful comment. 

I answered the op exactly how he/she wanted. A yes/no and a short "why" explanation.

 

 

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On 2/3/2017 at 8:44 PM, Cerberus said:

Also, tiredg, I might gently suggest the aphorism that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs" and ask whether in this case might it not be possible that the fact that you are entertaining an extraordinary belief could be a symptom of the condition itself? You might wish to give it some thought.

 

28 minutes ago, tiredg said:

I answered the op exactly how he/she wanted. A yes/no and a short "why" explanation.

Please see Cerberus' comment(s) above. 

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On 2/4/2017 at 11:14 AM, Cerberus said:

The OP is searching for real answers

From the OP, my understanding is that she wants opinions, as well as other information ...

The title of her post is:

"do you believe you/we actually have a brain disease?"   ... She is asking for our beliefs about it.

On 2/4/2017 at 11:14 AM, Cerberus said:

not indulge in wild speculation about MI,

I don't think anyone is speculating ... OP just wanted quick opinions, as said below:

Quote

and i'm looking for a very simple (yes, no, in part/among other things) answer

then, if you don't mind, in as few words as possible, please answer: why? is it a particular study or do you just feel diseased or is that what you believe of the medical model of mental illness to be saying or...?

I think she is looking for both opinions in addition to whether a person's thoughts are based on science or not.

Am I missing something?

I'm NOT saying you are wrong, just that I think there is another aspect to it all that OP is asking for, where she wants our ideas about it also.

Edited by melissaw72
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melissa, you've been with us a long time, and you know how we roll here. We are not mental health professionals, but peers-in-suffering, and we make no bones about the fact that the vast majority of us have not earned a sheepskin in psychiatry, psychology or any other discipline that would qualify us to make definitive statements of our own accord about the nature of the brain or its maladies. That is why we place place such a value on, and set such a high bar for, documented research to give us answers.

Opinions that are not based on medical rigor are at best distracting and at worst potentially harmful to people who come to Crazyboards seeking reliable information. Two or three days ago I checked to see who was using the site when I logged on; there were 15 members, but 435 guests. What good does it do the OP, or any of those hundreds of visitors and potential members, to hear an exchange of baseless supposition? Asking "Do you believe you actually have a brain disease?" is akin to asking "Do you think all those highly educated doctors we're seeing are charlatans?"

If a member has a dx and is under treatment, and the member questions the diagnosis, then we should be encouraging the member to educate him- or herself about the known science about the illness so that the person can become an active participant in his or her own treatment.

I don't have schizophrenia, but two members of my family were profoundly affected by it. Yes, they had a brain disease.  It devastated their lives. Belief had nothing to do with it. No amount of believing or not believing was going to change it.

I realize this may sound like a harsh line to take, and that sometimes a mind in distress tries to cope by denial - by imagining a possible reality in which the struggle we face is an illusion that will vanish if we only realize it. I wish recovery were as easy as a moment of clarity. Instead, it's long, hard, real-life work, and often discouraging and dispiriting, and that's why we have, and need, each other here at Crazyboards.

 

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22 hours ago, Cerberus said:

melissa, you've been with us a long time, and you know how we roll here. We are not mental health professionals, but peers-in-suffering, and we make no bones about the fact that the vast majority of us have not earned a sheepskin in psychiatry, psychology or any other discipline that would qualify us to make definitive statements of our own accord about the nature of the brain or its maladies. That is why we place place such a value on, and set such a high bar for, documented research to give us answers.

You're right, I already know this, what you wrote in your previous post above this one ... I know exactly how things are here.  I was talking about one post only, the OP here.  I wasn't talking about the site in general, about giving scientific references vs personal beliefs.

In my previous post, I was actually just honestly questioning you, purely because I didn't understand what you said in your former post.  I wrote, "From my understanding ..." which meant I was really just trying to understand what was going on.  I had looked at the first page of this thread, and it seemed to me like people were giving their own opinions (please correct me if I am wrong, because I honestly read the posts that way).  That was how I was interpreted it.

I even said:

On 2/6/2017 at 9:13 PM, melissaw72 said:

Am I missing something?

Which again, meant was there something I wasn't seeing as I was reading the whole post.  I was questioning what the OP was asking for from all of us.  That is all.

I was hoping someone was going to post to that question.

 

So I apologize if what I wrote came out the wrong way, but I just asked a few honest questions; I didn't imply anything that I see when I look back at that post I wrote. 

I wasn't even going against what you said.  I just didn't understand what you'd said, and needed clarification on it.  Sorry I didn't understand what you wrote.

Edited by melissaw72
ETA: Reading comprehention isn't my best subject.
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The question I have is talking about one's delusions about one's own mental health - regardless of whether one is aware that they are delusions or not - verboten here?

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On 1/1/2017 at 11:19 PM, mellifluous said:

i'm serious.

and i'm looking for a very simple (yes, no, in part/among other things) answer

then, if you don't mind, in as few words as possible, please answer: why? is it a particular study or do you just feel diseased or is that what you believe of the medical model of mental illness to be saying or...?

NB: i'm not here to debate or have others debate the topic here. i'm more wanting to know others' position on this and why, because i think that might be a big part of my hang up about my diagnosis. obviously there's the discrediting and the way it's characterized in our culture... but i also just don't believe i'm "sick". unwell me definitely doesn't. more stable me can kinda see it, but it simply has nothing to do with my life and my problems are not symptoms they're circumstances/events. i'm not there yet, but, i'm curious if others are or aren't and why.

cheers,

xx melli 

I'm not SZA yet, but I do get psychosis outside of mood episodes sometimes, so I may be headed there. I do not know the biological and biochemical reasons behind these types of disorders, but I definitely feel like something is definitely screwed up in paradise. I feel like my brain is trying to kill me. My last few psychotic episodes have been really, really bad. I don't think it's psychological in my case, although I definitely had enough damage done to me that way to do a big number on me. But I feel I'm pretty resilient when it comes to that, honestly. I have a bunch of mental illness on both sides of my family, including plenty of bipolar. So I tend to think of it as genetic susceptibility, that I unfortunately inherited. Strangely, it only runs in the men on both sides of my family. The women were all completely normal. I suppose that's probably a coincidence, but it sometime makes me wonder. I have a tremendous number of health complications, and potential complications as well. But the brain stuff is the thing that does the biggest whammy on me. It has become extremely worse with time. And yeah, I definitely think there's something seriously screwed up there. I don't know the cause, but I suspect it's multi-factorial. But, yeah, I definitely think it's a disease. And a really awful one at that.

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3 hours ago, Closure said:

The question I have is talking about one's delusions about one's own mental health - regardless of whether one is aware that they are delusions or not - verboten here?

Not sure where this question is coming from. Also, by "here", do you mean in this post or on CB in general?

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Just now, heilmania said:

Not sure where this question is coming from. Also, by "here", do you mean in this post or on CB in general?

CB in general.

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Just now, Closure said:

CB in general.

Of course not. Am I correct that you're taking a shot at Cerb?

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3 minutes ago, heilmania said:

Of course not. Am I correct that you're taking a shot at Cerb?

I just wanted some clarification, because I was not sure if that was what Cerb was implying or not.

Thanks.

Edited by Closure

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23 minutes ago, Closure said:

I just wanted some clarification, because I was not sure if that was what Cerb was implying or not.

I seriously doubt that's what was meant, and I'm still not sure where you got that idea based off what you read... Anyway, I believe Cerb is the type of person who values science and facts rather than speculation and was expressing that. The whole point of CB is to have a space to talk about our craziness and learn from people who've been there, and it may behoove us to base conversations on fact (experienced first-hand or through reliable sources). 

Edited by heilmania
*I believe

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3 minutes ago, heilmania said:

I seriously doubt that's what was meant, and I'm still not sure where you got that idea based off what you read... Anyway, I believe Cerb is the type of person who values science and facts rather than speculation and was expressing that. The whole point of CB is to have a space to talk about our craziness and learn from people who've been there, and it may behoove us to base conversations on fact (experienced first-hand or through reliable sources). 

I read it this way because I interpreted this thread - largely because of what I have talked to the OP about the topic in the past - as being about what ideas we have about our MI, be they scientific or be they whatever delusional crap our MIs have put in our heads, so I interpreted what Cerb said as putting a kibosh on that.

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Just now, Closure said:

I read it this way because I interpreted this thread - largely because of what I have talked to the OP about the topic in the past - as being about what ideas we have about our MI, be they scientific or be they whatever delusional crap our MIs have put in our heads, so I interpreted what Cerb said as putting a kibosh on that.

Huh. 

Well, the OP did ask people to say why they believed what they did, and mentioned wanting to know if it came from a particular study or wherever. I guess I interpreted that differently than you did, based on your prior convos with the OP. 

Either way, there's no way Cerb meant that we shouldn't talk about mental health on crazyboards. But, I'll leave it up to him to further explain what he meant, should he feel the need to do so. 

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Closure -

We are not in the habit of telling our members what they may speak about or how they may speak about it. Our early motto was that crazy meds suck donkey dong, but we've had to clean up our potty mouth (slightly) now that we serve Google ads, and not talk as freely about nipple clamps. We still do, just not as freely. I'm not fond of them myself.

Nevertheless! There is a short list of exceptions to the free flow of yammer, some of which are catalogued in the User Agreement, and some of which we've picked up as they have reared their hideous heads. This short list includes (but is not necessarily limited to, you cheeky monkeys):

  • The buying, selling, finding, or making of illicit pharmaceuticals
  • Advocacy of soundly debunked claims regarding vaccines
  • Polemics that seek to persuade members to discontinue treatment for any reason
  • Anti-medication, anti-psychiatry, or anti-psychology propaganda
  • Any speech that constitutes sexual harrassment or stalking of any individual member
  • Divulging another member's private personal information without his or her consent ("outing", "doxing")

All of the above have been the cause for at least one person to go ban-a-bye-bye at one time or another. Other no-nos along these lines will occur to anyone with a modicum of common sense.

To your immediate question: Is it forbidden to talk about your delusional ideas about why you're mentally interesting? Of course you can talk about that. Talk about it till you're blue, but here's the thing - if you're talking about that, we'd also very much like to hear how you realized that your delusion was exactly that, and how you came to accept the reality and have learned to cope with it in a healthy way. Your personal delusion is not helpful, except as backstory to actual recovery.

Crazyboards isn't a padded cell. It isn't an inpatient psych ward, either. Crazyboards is a place where we meet to work on getting better and staying better. Our best service to one another is to challenge each other's delusions and self-defeating thinking. We grow and progress most swiftly when we call each other on our shit, and it has been that way here for heading into a dozen years now. It does no one any good if we validate the symptoms of disease in the same way that we validate hard-won progress.

This is not my board to mod. I don't suffer from the kinds of delusions that you folks do, and my heart goes out to you and your suffering. Those like me who labor under crippling Major Depression experience delusional thinking of a different sort, the kind that causes one to believe that the cruelest imaginable things about oneself are true. There are no voices speaking to us; God is not pronouncing this; the cruel ideas have the ring of inarguable truth because they sound exactly like our own thoughts telling us the truth. There is no defense against it except to reach a point where one accepts that delusion is delusion, and must be identified, labeled, and set aside in favor of actual truth that can be proven with science and with logic.

Perhaps I get a bit over-worked about this sort of thing, but to my mind, it touches the very center of why Crazyboards means enough to me that I've made it a significant part of my life. Mental Illness is the Enemy. If we indulge in any of the kinds of discussions in the short list above - or if we give equal time to delusion and place it on an equal footing with fact - then we give aid and comfort to that Enemy. The Enemy has no mercy and gives no quarter. It plunders the joy and vitality and beauty and promise from human lives and leaves ruin behind it, and even in 2017 we have no more real power to stop its forward march than a village in the west of France had to halt the onslaught Hitler's Panzers. Crazyboards isn't about VE Day (sorry, VE), at least, not yet - It's about the Resistance during the occupation. It's about triage and trenches, hunkering down and lifting up spirits, patching wounds and taking meds and making sure our fellows make it through the day in one piece. Because one day...

~Listen~

 

Edited by Cerberus

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I had to come online to reply to this thread I started when I saw it get nuts with people being told off and so forth. 

 

Look, I'm glad tiredg posted the truth of her experience. I can relate to that. I don't need to judge her and her comment IS helpful. 

 

And jusy hecayse youve you've known people with SZ/SZA, Cerberus, you are not and it's propagation of mental health stigma against those of us with certain diagnoses/symptoms that we need to be shielded for your own sakes. We are still people who shouldn't be scolded for having perspectives on a personal level and sharing them. 

 

Things like this, the more effort to tell me what to think or what's proper NOT from personal experience diagnostically similar enough to mine...just fans the flames of some of my delusions, so I'd also advise against it on a "if you really want to help" basis as well  

 

can we we return to the subject of the thread?

 

i wanted to update and say that my ailment...I don't buy the medical model exclusively at all. However, I have to actively choose consensus reality. For me that involves a fair amount of reality checking. 

This didn't used to be as necessary. Not at all. I spent years without therapy or groups or reality checking and breakthrough symptoms. That frightens me. But I definitely see having a perspective that's dysfunctional. And there are a few things I think that I really do see why that's definitely involving "magical thinking" but I believe it to the point of acting with it in mind. 

I still maintain that I've had something done to me, but I can also see that even thinking my capsules protect me by some blood brain barrier internal tinfoil hat, of sorts, is how I rationalize taking meds but also that's pretty loopy at the same time. 

Anyway, I appreciate everyone taking the time and sorry I bit your heads off those who seemed to be shutting down the sharing honestly. I need that, though; it's of immense value to hear the spectrum of lived experience and analysis by those on my "spectrum", which I do think that's the best of the various models. It's just also inadequate. 

The trauma thing also makes sense. I think Oliver is proof that it can be trauma induced and I know I've had some truly horrible things in my life that definitely scarred me. But in my case I think it's mostly some sort of chronic ailment due to something chemical that medication addresses and maybe something structural that the psychosis has damaged. Like, in my case it might open portals and I 100% know certain things are the case that sound delusional but aren't...but it's mostly made me scar myself up and ruin my life and hospitalize me and rob me of time and trust and memory and others. 

 

So I set aside. And I do so because of the meds, but I take those because I have a small girl. Full stop. I have to be able to want to live just for the sake of life, though, because it'd be too much to put on such a small person I'm guiding to think my life means so little to me innately 

I used to have command hallucinations. I don't currently. I might again. I might not ever again. I'm more well now than I've been in several years. 

That's all I can say. If I write much on here when I'm doing better, when I return if I'm doing poorly it'll aggravate me. 

 

Xx melli

 

ps: sorry if I started this thread in a huff. It was weird getting email updates about new posts on it and seeing things accumulate and it just hit a threshold in me. I'm not trying to be a dick I'm just blunt because I'm defensive about people without telling people with to stay silent. x

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Melli -

You never have to apologize here for being honest. Thank you for coming back to your thread and clarifying your needs.

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