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benzo to benzo

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Do you think switching benzos reduces some  of the tolerance you have to them ex. If I went to  valium from  a long stretch on  klonipin would the valium work normally or  not  cuz they all hit the same receptor? Ive tried all the usuals and my doc doesn't  want to go to far off the path. the klonipin sedative properties have worn off so now I need thorazine to sleep which is very suck-y...ive tried all the usual sleeping suspects and got nothing...any ideas or experience with the benzo switch would  be  very welcome

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Good question. I don't know the answer, but I have found in the past that I would need to take a break from benzos from time to time to clear tolerance.

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There is cross tolerance between benzos and my experience switching between benzos (ativan,klonopin, valium, and alprazolam) is that it remains the same. 

Valium is sedating for a different or additional reason from Klonopin, at least to some point, because it is metabolized into temazepam, a hypnotic. Valium would be a better choice in that it is more sedating than Klonopin, but I see you have tried Valium and temazepam at a significant dose.

Time off the benzo is the only way I know to reset tolerance. 

 

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The problem is what to take during the break to sleep (or stay calm)

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Posted (edited)

What break ? I've cold switched benzos several times. As long as you have been on a benzo for a while it will work. The trick is figuring the conversion so you have no withdrawals. I just did a switch between Klonopin and Valium. I just stopped the Klonopin and took an equivalent dose instead of Valium. 

Edited by notloki

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My experience has been that I react differently to certain benzos. I get almost zero benefit from Valium or Klonopin, even at max dosages, but 0.25mg of Xanax usually kills my anxiety. 0.5mg is the highest I can take without needing a nap. I wonder if the half-life of the drugs has any effect. I've seen the equivalency chart plenty of times, and I get the theory behind all of it, but my body disagrees with the chart.

On the hypnotic side, temazepam did very little for me, while triazolam works consistently. Only downside is I get rebound insomnia if I take it for more than 2 nights in a row and then d/c. Z-drugs are just as fussy -- Ambien only works 1/10 times, but Lunesta 8/10.

It seems you're looking for an insomnia treatment, and you've been through almost all of the usual suspects. Perhaps zaleplon or doxepin, or possibly Belsomra? I've been through a lot of the same meds trying to treat insomnia, and it sucks. Benzos haven't been super-effective for night-time sleep.

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@notloki what was the equivalent you took. I'm not worried about withdrawal just that it won't work due to the klonipin tolerance. Idk what the Max for Valium is (for psych not seizures) 

@dtac yes that's very true...I would be switching to something I know works 

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3 Mg Klonopin is 30 mg Valium. I found that too sedating and moved down to 10 mg. 40 mg seems the usual limit.

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Yeah I've been at forty...it just seems like I'm one of those who needs a high dose of benzo to even feel it...that's the other side...I've maxed on most benzos so why change 

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I just switched from klonz to valium and am on a tapering schedule to avoid klon withdrawals. The valium dosage given is 5mg, which sounds like it won't do anything for me. If, after i wean off the klonz altogether and the valium 5mg doesn't do anything, should I ask about going up in dose? 

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You shouldn't have much issue at all tapering from Klonopin to Valium. Both are long-acting benzos, so the transition should be pretty smooth. But, yes, 5mg is a starting dose for Valium, so it wouldn't hurt to go up on it if you need it.

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Thanks dtac! I hope once and for all to quash this anxiety, it is horrible. I've been missing work and been going home and curling up into a ball. 

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I've switched between benzo's a bunch of times.. I can also go up and down doses no problem.. I'm lucky I suppose?

I went from 1mg Ativan (lorazepam) to 20mg Valium (diazepam) a day.. then was switched to Xanax  (alprazolam) , and it went up to 0.5mg x 4/day, which was later switched to up to x 4 a day, and I tapered to 1.5mg/day (0.5mg x 3/day) and had no problem. Then I was switched to Valium, 30mg/day (10mg am, 20mg pm) and had a really shitty few days and my pdoc was out of town, so after 2 days, he finally called in the Xanax, at 0.5mg, 4x's a day PRN (as needed) and I returned the valium to the pharmacy and got my Xanax back..

I was on Xanax from 2008-2013, my pdoc retired, my new pdoc said Klonopin (clonazepam) was longer acting, and he put me on 1.5mg/day (0.5mg x 3) and I tapered over with no problems, and eventually due to akathisia and anxiety, he raised it to up to 3mg a day (1mg x 3) and I took it like that for a bit, then switched meds around, felt less anxious, so he said I could take up to 3mg/day, so I went to 0.5mg when I got up, 0.5mg in the afternoon and 1mg at night.

I currently take 0.5mg as needed with an Rx of up to 3mg a day, I rarely take anywhere near that.

When I switched from Xanax to Klonopin, the first dose of 0.5mg klonopin I took knocked me right out, but only the first dose!

The only trouble I've had switching was from Xanax to Valium. 

Xanax and Ativan are the faster acting, short life spans, harder to get off, benzo's, while Klonopin and Valium have longer half lives and kick in slower, and stay in longer.

I've had no problems with klonopin. 

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