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Britton777

Have tried EVERYTHING! Any thoughts on Thorazine or chloral hydrate? Looking for suggestions

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Hi everyone. Im new here. I have been struggling with severe insomnia since October 2014. It has left me in a state of anxiety, panic, derealization, dizziness, depression and severe brain fog. I am completely non functional and need help. 

I have tried EVERYTHING with paradoxical effects. Everything makes me wired. I’m not even sure I should attempt to name everything I’ve tried. But let’s just says benzos, all hypnotics, trazadone, elavil, Xyrem, remeron, phenobarbital, all herbs and supplements etc etc. 

I am seeing a new doctor next week. We had a phone consult today and I threw out the few things I have not tried. Chloral hydrate, haldol and Thorazine (I’ve actually never tried any of the older antipsychotics) 

i am wondering, if we decide to try chloral hydrate, if I had paradoxical reactions to benzos and barbiturates, would I likely have the same reaction to chloral hydrate? What about the older antipsychotics like Thorazine and haldol? 

Any other thoughts? I read about nozinan, but I don’t think it’s available in the US. 

 

Edited by Britton777

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do you know what's at the root of the insomnia?  is it possible that the depression is causing it and therefore the gameplan would need to be to treat the depression and therefore eliminate the insomnia?

just a thought.  it makes me think of things like amitryptaline.

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Ya, I’ve tried amatyptaline. It doesn’t help me sleep. None of the older antidepressants or newer ones help me. I’m actually currently tapering Zoloft and remeron (remeron used to help my insomnia but stopped working in 2014)

i don’t know what to do. I am sooooo tired but can’t sleep. 

Edited by Britton777

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I have five star reviews for Thorazine when I'm manic or really cannot sleep. Got the effect at low dose but there is a huge dosing range. It's more sedating than haldol but that could be worth a shot too. I'd really hold off on the choral hydrate until last due to the possible  side effects/interactions and the fact that you can build tolerance super quickly which can hurt sleep structure 

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Phenibut? Info here -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenibut

Worth a try. Works on GABA receptors and is pretty tolerable. Low doses may cause a mild stimulant effect. It has addictive properties. On the upside it's available without a doctor note. Is a popular workout supplement.

Sleep study?

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9 hours ago, Iceberg said:

I have five star reviews for Thorazine when I'm manic or really cannot sleep. 

I second trying the Thorazine......It knocks most people out at relatively low doses......Worth a try, IMO.

As @Happy ^_^ mentioned, have you had a sleep study done?.....If not, might be a good idea.

Edited by CrazyRedhead

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I have had 3 sleep studies done over the past 4 years. Last one was in February. Unfortunately for my case, I slept pretty good that night. 4 hours which they said was typical given being in a strange place and hooked up to all the wires. They were just satisfied knowing by bipap was working perfectly to control my apnea. I tried to desperately tell them how bad my sleep is, but they just don’t get it. 

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BIG QUESTION....if Seroquel, zyprexa, depakote, geodon (which I’m on) and other atypical antipsychotics don’t help me sleep or calm, does that mean I’ll have the same response to Thorazine? Can Thorazine cause restlessness and mania? 

Weird thing is that my body chemistry has completely changed. Back in 2005 when I was experiencing insomnia, 10 mg of Seroquel knocked me out cold. I ended up switching to trazadone due to weight gain. Trazadone knocked me out too.

In 2007 I stopped taking trazadone. I don’t remember why. 

In 2010 insomnia got really really bad like it is now. After many trials of typical sleeping medications and psych meds, we finally found remeron which worked like a charm. 

In 2014 remeron stopped working completely. I tried Seroquel again, 3 different times, different doses, but it made me manic and caused severe restlessness. I have tried trazadone again and it causes my blood pressure to go through the roof and did not help me sleep at all. I tried stopping remeron and restarting it in hopes for a reboot. Didn’t work. 

I don’t know what to do friends. I didn’t sleep for even a minute last night. I’m having severe derealization, brain fog and anxiety. I’m scared, but I don’t want to go to the psych hospital. I’ve been there so many times. They can’t help me and the environment makes my anxiety much worse. 

Edited by Britton777

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1 hour ago, Britton777 said:

BIG QUESTION....if Seroquel, zyprexa, depakote, geodon (which I’m on) and other atypical antipsychotics don’t help me sleep or calm, does that mean I’ll have the same response to Thorazine? Can Thorazine cause restlessness and mania?     

I can't really predict how you would react to Thorazine, because we are all different....Typically, it is used in low doses for insomnia.

I'm not a doctor, but IMO, since you have already tried just about everything else for sleep, it couldn't hurt to just try it..........If you have side effects from it that you can't tolerate, you always have the option of stopping the medication.

If you don't mind me asking, do you have any other diagnosed psychiatric conditions, other than the sleep issues?

Edited by CrazyRedhead

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Oh yes. I am diagnosed GAD, major depression and OCD. I have had some doctors who have only met me briefly think I am bipolar. But when I was inpatient for 6 weeks, they did not think bipolar. They think it’s the anxiety, ocd and sleep deprivation which looks like bipolar. 

I have tried mood stabilizers, but they make worse. 

I am on 20 mg geodon X2, Ativan x3, Zoloft which I’m weaning and remeron which I’m weaning since neither where helping for their intesensions. My sleep problems started way before I started titrating, but weaning has been a beast. Right now I don’t feel the worst I’ve ever felt during these 4 years, but I feel as bad as the worst I’ve ever felt, if that makes sense. 

I need sleep. 

Edited by Britton777

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Thorazine is different than the AAPs you listed and isn't activating as an effect but can cause Restlessness as a side effect but that's typically at doses above what's required for sleep. The biggest side effect is being a zombie...which might benefit you anyway

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lol! At this point a zombie might be good. It scares to to think about losing my personality, but I do need sleep and I’m often a zombie frozen by anxiety and sleep deprivation anyway 

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1 hour ago, Britton777 said:

Oh yes. I am diagnosed GAD, major depression and OCD. I have had some doctors who have only met me briefly think I am bipolar. But when I was inpatient for 6 weeks, they did not think bipolar. They think it’s the anxiety, ocd and sleep deprivation which looks like bipolar. 

I have tried mood stabilizers, but they make worse. 

I am on 20 mg geodon X2, Ativan x3, Zoloft which I’m weaning and remeron which I’m weaning since neither where helping for their intesensions. My sleep problems started way before I started titrating, but weaning has been a beast. Right now I don’t feel the worst I’ve ever felt during these 4 years, but I feel as bad as the worst I’ve ever felt, if that makes sense. 

I need sleep. 

Thinking that if you have gad, overactive thoughts could be keeping you up.

otherwise have you tried anything like buspar for anxiety?

most mood stabilizers help anxiety. Which ones have you tried?

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I’ve tried many including buspar. I’ve tried lamictal, topomax, depakote, zyprexa, geodon (which I’m on) lithium, latuda, ability and probably more I can’t think of. 

Miya like my brain physically won't shut down no matter how much meditation I do, deep breathing, CBT, mindfulness,  listening to the calm app....

?????♥️

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19 hours ago, Britton777 said:

Hi everyone. Im new here. I have been struggling with severe insomnia since October 2014. It has left me in a state of anxiety, panic, derealization, dizziness, depression and severe brain fog. I am completely non functional and need help. 

I have tried EVERYTHING with paradoxical effects. Everything makes me wired. I’m not even sure I should attempt to name everything I’ve tried. But let’s just says benzos, all hypnotics, trazadone, elavil, Xyrem, remeron, phenobarbital, all herbs and supplements etc etc. 

I am seeing a new doctor next week. We had a phone consult today and I threw out the few things I have not tried. Chloral hydrate, haldol and Thorazine (I’ve actually never tried any of the older antipsychotics) 

i am wondering, if we decide to try chloral hydrate, if I had paradoxical reactions to benzos and barbiturates, would I likely have the same reaction to chloral hydrate? What about the older antipsychotics like Thorazine and haldol? 

Any other thoughts? I read about nozinan, but I don’t think it’s available in the US. 

 

Can you describe your insomnia a bit more?

is it delayed sleep, as in it takes you forever to fall asleep?

is it the inability to stay asleep?

is it actually more like hypersomnia, where you are actually unconscious for a good long while but it feels like didn’t actually sleep?

I think dances might be on to something with depression. Atypical and melancholic depression both have sleep difficulties, but can respond to treatment a bit differently.

 

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5 minutes ago, Britton777 said:

I’ve tried many including buspar. I’ve tried lamictal, topomax, depakote, zyprexa, geodon (which I’m on) lithium, latuda, ability and probably more I can’t think of. 

Miya like my brain physically won't shut down no matter how much meditation I do, deep breathing, CBT, mindfulness,  listening to the calm app....

?????♥️

How about a GABA analogue like lyrica? Just thinking of anxiolytics with different moa than what you’ve tried so far.

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I know i sound impossible! But I am! That’s the problem. I tried gabapentin and it made me crazy manic, even at a compounded low dose. Isn’t lyrica similar? 

Janeinf said all this argh, do you think I would have a bad time with thorazine or chloral hydrate (I know they’re 2 completely different medications) but maybe my body just doesn’t tolerate medications? Or do you think there’s SOMETHING out there that could help me? 

 

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2 hours ago, argh said:

Can you describe your insomnia a bit more?

is it delayed sleep, as in it takes you forever to fall asleep?

is it the inability to stay asleep?

is it actually more like hypersomnia, where you are actually unconscious for a good long while but it feels like didn’t actually sleep?

I think dances might be on to something with depression. Atypical and melancholic depression both have sleep difficulties, but can respond to treatment a bit differently.

 

It’s a bit of everything. I can say for certain I haven’t slept a wink for 3 nights now. But sometimes I’ll get sleepy around 9-11 and I’ll be able to sleep hard until 12-1. Many nights it the hypersomnia feeling you’re saying. But I’m not unconscious for a long while. I’m up and down all night with weird vivid dreams and nightmares. Lucid dreaming. I know I’m up a lot as I’ll lay up in bed and look around to gather my surroundings. Never in 4 years have I had a restful, peaceful sleep. I’ve never had more than 3-4 hours of sleep in a night since this started 4 years ago. And if I do get some sleep, I’m up wife awake by 4-5, even if I ididnt fall asleep until the middle of the night.  It’s a complete mystery to the doctors. Nobody has been able to help me. 

Every morning, whether I got some sleep or didn’t sleep at all, severe anxiety kicks in between 4-7 am. It’s unbearable physical anxiety. 

Any ideas?🙏♥️

Edited by Britton777

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39 minutes ago, Britton777 said:

I know i sound impossible! But I am! That’s the problem. I tried gabapentin and it made me crazy manic, even at a compounded low dose. Isn’t lyrica similar? 

Janeinf said all this argh, do you think I would have a bad time with thorazine or chloral hydrate (I know they’re 2 completely different medications) but maybe my body just doesn’t tolerate medications? Or do you think there’s SOMETHING out there that could help me? 

 

Yeah, Lyrica is sort of the more efficient, more bioavailable sister drug of gabapentin. Figured you might as well go to the more effective one, by all accounts, but I can't say for certain that they are exactly alike in their effects.

I'd say thorazine is definitely worth a shot as @CrazyRedhead

mentioned above. Based on what you've taken thus far, it couldn't hurt. Supposedly sedates via the anticholinergic (M1/M2 antagonism) and histamine (H1) antagonism. 

How about hydroxyzine? About the same deal though instead of H1 antagonism, it's an inverse agonist. It's actually an anxiolytic so perhaps some benefits with that one too.

 

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2 hours ago, argh said:

Yeah, Lyrica is sort of the more efficient, more bioavailable sister drug of gabapentin. Figured you might as well go to the more effective one, by all accounts, but I can't say for certain that they are exactly alike in their effects.

I'd say thorazine is definitely worth a shot as @CrazyRedhead

mentioned above. Based on what you've taken thus far, it couldn't hurt. Supposedly sedates via the anticholinergic (M1/M2 antagonism) and histamine (H1) antagonism. 

How about hydroxyzine? About the same deal though instead of H1 antagonism, it's an inverse agonist. It's actually an anxiolytic so perhaps some benefits with that one too.

 

I have adverse reactions to hydroxyzine too! Wired me. Do you think Thorazine would be similar? 

Halcion....I’ve tried Xanax, Valium, klonopin and Ativan (which I’m on) none help me sleep or relive anxiety. You’re probably wondering why I’m in Ativan then....long convoluted story. I want off of it, but my body is physically addicted. Plan to do a slow taper once I start sleeping. Is halcion different from other benzos, or would I likely react the same? 

Am I screwed? 😞

Edited by Britton777

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It's different. More potent/very fast acting...supposedly not great for sleep maintaince but it actually helps for me with that too

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1 hour ago, Iceberg said:

It's different. More potent/very fast acting...supposedly not great for sleep maintaince but it actually helps for me with that too

What med are you talking about iceberg? 

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8 minutes ago, Britton777 said:

What med are you talking about iceberg? 

Talking about halcion- I failed with basically all the other benzos too 

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2 hours ago, Britton777 said:

I have adverse reactions to hydroxyzine too! Wired me. Do you think Thorazine would be similar? 

Halcion....I’ve tried Xanax, Valium, klonopin and Ativan (which I’m on) none help me sleep or relive anxiety. You’re probably wondering why I’m in Ativan then....long convoluted story. I want off of it, but my body is physically addicted. Plan to do a slow taper once I start sleeping. Is halcion different from other benzos, or would I likely react the same? 

Am I screwed? 😞

Hydroxyzine actually screwed me up too. Something about it my head doesn't like. Regardless, it works for some so i figured i'd toss that out there.

You're not screwed until you've literally, not figuratively, tried everything out there.

Keeping going, buddy. There's hope till there ain't.

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