In the US it seems like these drugs are handed out like sweeties.  Hell, I even heard somebody on this board getting xanax for Paxil withdrawl effects - I would have to be dying of an anxiety attack to get this drug.

I take benzo's for a complex eye problem (that I'm not even going to get into) that causes me tremendous amounts of pain.  This is no problem because I low dose will solve the problem quite easily.  60 (5mg) diazapam tablets will last me 4 months - I only take it when I feel that the pain is too much.

I also suffer from horrible anxiety and panic attacks and there isn't a damn thing that I can do about it.  I won't even ask my doctor for a large supply of a benzo in case he thinks that I am abusing his trust (and he may not even be allowed to give me large amounts or repeat prescriptions).  I have been on SSRIs which help the anxiety but not the panic attacks, but am now on Effexor (does nothing for my anxiety).  Perhaps I will try beta blockers.

I've posted on the anxiety board but I would like this topic to remain here.  How many of you takers are allowed to use a benzo everyday?  Just curious, because I am going to have a serious talk with my psychiatrist about this.  It would probably be far better for me to have a slight addiction (as in a dependance issue - not abuse) to a benzo than to go on in this ridiculous condition.


I'm in the UK by the way.

DH takes 6 mg daily.

I don't know what it is about the pdocs there. From everything I've heard, they don't do polypharmacology and they don't do benzos. It makes no sense to me at all. Lots of medications can potentially be addictive or abused.

My anxiety level doesn't really interfere with my life. My pdoc has been hinting at anxiety for a while, but it's only been more recently that I'm starting to see what he's talking about. I finally agreed to try Xanax for insomnia because we'd been through every other med. It was only by accident that I found out it helped my mood.

When I told him this at my last visit, he wanted me to try taking 1 mg of Xanax XR and then .25 mg of immediate release in the late afternoon (the XR lasts about 17 hours). And I gotta tell you... I feel good. Not "high" good, rather "not depressed" good. I've been on it for about six weeks and don't feel like I need to take a higher dose. I sometimes miss the late afternoon dose and don't really notice it. Though some days I can totally tell when the XR is wearing off.

I'm staying on this stuff. In combination with the ADs, I'm finally feeling like I'm getting better (it's been two years).

Good luck!

~Sunshine

So let me get this striaght.  He WANTED you to take Xanax?  HA!  Unbelieveable!

well, i'm on klonopin at least .5mg daily.... and then I have to take it as needed.  my doc didnt just hand it out like candy...he made sure that i really needed it. 

maybe some effexor withdrawal will help you out...I heard from someone that the brain zaps were better than sex...

http://www.crazyboards.org/index.php?showt...062&#entry15062

...unfortunately, I cannot say the same for the current effexor withdrawal I am experiencing at the moment...

I take 2-3mg of klonopin a day, with the third 1mg dose depending on how bad the anxiety is that day. I have GAD, also BP and ADD. My pdoc has had me on and off benzo's but never fails to write a new Rx or write a refill if my anxiety is messing with my ability to function. I occcasionaly have to take valium 10mg on top of the klonopin when things get really bad, when I am in the midst of an panic attack and the klonopimn is just not cutting it.  I have never abused the valium, one Rx will last me for half a year. The klonopin though that I take every day with my pdoc's blessing.

Erika

Just ask your drug dealer, WHOOPS I mean doctor (cough cough) for more benzos - I'm sure that he'll give you a ton.

Correct. I've been seeing him for 7 years, though and have no abuse history. But yes, he's the one that suggested Xanax. Both times.

You should all think yourselfs lucky that you are in the States.  You would all be told to fuck-off if you were in the UK!

IMHO, the abuse/addiction issues related to benzos are mostly hype and hysteria. Anyone remember the big Prozac scare way back when? If you don't have any abuse/addiction history, they are as safe as any other psychiatric medication.

Like I said, I don't understand what's up with the pdocs in the U.K. Do they not read the current pharmaceutical literature? Someone else here from the U.K. once said their pdoc had never even heard of Wellbutrin. I know it has a different brand name in the U.K., but still. Geesh.

The only thing I can suggest is that you do some research... print off the PI sheets.... and try and educate them. Or move to the States!

Is all of Europe like this, or just the U.K.?

I had Xanax XR, 1mg script and was taking 1 per day, rarely 2 if it was a killer day.  My need decreased as other meds took hold, and I worked hard to get off it.  I can go weeks sometimes without using it, then maybe one or two days. However I did have a script renewal recently, no problems from the Pdoc regarding my request.

A.M.

QUOTE

You should all think yourselfs lucky that you are in the States.  You would all be told to fuck-off if you were in the UK!

[sorry] is that from you because you are aggravated or the pdocs are that aggravating and would blow you off?

...IS there any situation in which the doctors feel that benzos are appropriate?

I am prescribed klonopin, .5mg 2x a day +1mg  prn. However, since I have started taking it, a while ago,  I have decreased my use to very seldom.

Honestly, though there are a lot of people who may abuse them at one point or another, the people who need benzodiazepines and use them responsibly is still a majority.  The ones who 'eat them like candy' are the ones who piss off the poeple that really need them.

I am wondering if there are only specific cases in with pdocs in your country will prescribed them.

~navy~

Seriously though, a benzo must be a pretty crap drug to abuse - they just make you a little sleepy, don't they.  A benzo has never made me feel euphoric.  NEVER.

I here some people who take heroin use benzos to prolongue their high, but I can't see anyone muching a pack of benzos on there own.

Over here they are called "club drugs".  Well, I'm affraid that I would be asleep on the dance floor!

I might as well chime in.

My pdoc was the one who suggested (re: nearly shoved the damn things down my throat himself) both benzos I've tried.

15mg Restoril *almost* caused me some abuse problems (tolerance within two days) when I took it for insomnia, but I got paranoid about it, and started taking it PRN, no more than twice weekly, at least three days apart. I felt like crap taking any more, actually.

I got Klonopin (which I was also paranoid about) when I was on a recent tripping out mania. He gave me a script for a month's worth of 0.75mg daily, and told me to titrate at will. I was a good little girl about it, and got another (worse) paradoxical reaction after being on it for a couple of weeks.

Both were discontinued at my request.

My doctor would not be qualified as a drug dealer, despite randomly using benzos. He has a big orange bill and webbed feet.


Mimi
*quacks, runs around*

It's pretty much the same here in Sweden as in the UK, though it really depends a lot on the doctor - some are much more willing to prescribe benzodiazepines than others.

In the past, I have been on Valium 2.5 mg PRN for about eight months, and on another occasion Klonopin .5 daily for 3-4 months. Also had flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) for sleep for a month or so. This was during times when I was frequently hospitalized. I didn't ask for them, the hospital doctors suggested it.

My current pdoc isn't too keen on prescribing benzos, and I haven't had any for a year or so. I'm scared to ask for them, because lately I got a BPD label, so if I ask for benzos they are likely to call me drug-seeking (despite the fact that I have never in my 42-year life been dependent on drugs, legal or illegal). I did get some Atarax (Vistaril) the last time I saw him, to use occasionally for sleep.

It's also true that doctors here often don't prescribe med cocktails, at least not as frequently as they seem to do in the US. Usually, I have been on monotherapy, or one "main" med (AD, mood stabilizer or atypical) and a sleep med or benzo.

I take klonopin .5 x2 daily at my pdoc's request. She just didn't hand them out to me, she encouraged me to take them after I had a panic attack in her waiting room. I have GAD and BP. I don't abuse them, I don't get high from them. I do have a history of drug abuse, and despite that my pdoc still thinks I should take them.  It has helped my anxiety so much, allowing me to do many more things like get through a work day without locking myself in the bathroom with a full-blown panic attack.

Is it even possible to get high of a benzo?

I am prescribed .25 mgs of xanax twice a day.  SHe also rx'd me a few extra in case I need them. 

I can't imagine abusing them bc they do make me tired. 

Nevermind

I take 4mg of Ativan at night and 1mg of Klonopin 3x daily.

Cheers,
Chris

My pdoc  told me to take them as needed.  Its just not the kind of drug for recrational use for me.  Frankly, balance would be ideal.  There are days when i take zanax  at higher doses thatn ohters.

Well I'll see my psyc on Thursday but if I can't get any from him I will have to see about getting them illegally.  I'm pissed off because I'm in law school and I should not have to risk getting a criminal conviction for this shit, however unlikely it is. I'll just have to be careful.

QUOTE (username @ Jun 28 2005, 11:32 AM)

Well I'll see my psyc on Thursday but if I can't get any from him I will have to see about getting them illegally.  I'm pissed off because I'm in law school and I should not have to risk getting a criminal conviction for this shit, however unlikely it is. I'll just have to be careful.

Maybe a better strategy would be to look at specifics situations in which these meds can help- choose one or two that, after reading, seem like they would be most appropriate.  Know your information and have supporting reasons to be taking something.  I don't know what you and your doctor have talked about before, but if you can show him that they would be beneficial, he may be more willing.

If your doc finds that you are taking benzos- he won't trust you at all.Which may come up at some point because of med interactions, or simply because he could think you are improving without the help of them-  and he may start medicating differently.

Either way- if you are having issues which would be appropriate for these meds- state as much.

Well... hopefully he will listen.
~navy~

I thought I'd chime in here too...I live in Canada and have also encountered a lot of resistance with regards to benzos.  I don't know if it's because of my age (23) or the fact that I haven't yet gotten in to see a pdoc, but it gets pretty ridiculous.  I've got GAD and I have nightime panic attacks and trouble sleeping, and I haven't responded well to SSRIs at all, yet the doctors here would rather get me on an atypical anti-psychotic than a benzo.  I keep making the argument that I'd much rather the benzo since there are so few side effects compared to some of the other ones, but to no avail.

I'm always told that they don't want to risk addiction in someone so young.  It's so frustrating because as you said...who would abuse these drugs? you don't get any plesaurable effects from them! 

I finally had one doc willing to give me 0.5mg ativan to take at night for sleep, but it wouldn't do anything.  Right now I'm allowed to take 1mg 3xdaily but that's only because I'm going through really nasty Effexor withdrawal, my doc has made it clear that as soon as the withdrawal is over, so are the benzos

Good luck, I hope you find a doc willing to listen!

Not really a great option - I'm a big guy, have a huge natural resistance to most drugs and the amounts that they are willing to hand out are minute as far as I'm concerned.  If I get the meds that I need then trust is a non-issue - I come first.

I'd happily tell my doc that I was obtaining meds illegally, and if he didn't like it, I would find someone else.  Anyhow, it is unlikey that he would ever find out.  Very unlikely.

QUOTE (username @ Jun 28 2005, 02:39 PM)

I'd happily tell my doc that I was obtaining meds illegally, and if he didn't like it, I would find someone else.  Anyhow, it is unlikey that he would ever find out.  Very unlikely.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but what are the things that are stopping you from finding another doctor right now? It just doesn't sound as though he is a very effective one for you, and you seem to not trust his judgement... but that also means you aren't getting the most beneficial treatment out of all of this.  If that is the case,  could you find another one now and avoid any further frustration?  I don't know how difficult it is or you to find another doctor, or how long you have been with this guy,  but it sounds like this patient/doctor relationship is really inneffective.
sorry to digress. You just seem really aggravated at this guy, and have several reasons for it. Or do you generally get along with him but are now having problems because of this specific issue?

As for people who abuse the drugs- I don't get it. People, for some reason, are into painkillers and benzos because they like to take large amounts of them, way more than would be prescribed, and fight off the sedation effect. And lay there like idiots.  Often also drink with them to get more intoxicated faster. Happens a lot in college. But in college- kids try to grab anything that will give them a quick altered state. Cough syrup and general cold medicines are popular.  It seems especially attractive if it has a presciption label attached ot it.  I had to watch my meds. People wanted to buy them from me... or steal them.

~navy~

Getting another doc is easy, but I can't get another psychiatrist.  I have a great relationship with my doc and he claims that he wouldn't give most people the small amount of benzo's that I am allowed for my eye problem that is muscular and related to tourettes.  It really is nothing personal at all, its just that UK docs do not prescribe large amounts of this type of drug.  I really wouldn't ask him for any more than I'm getting - it is obvious that he does not see benzo treatment as an option.

Same with my psychiatrist.

My GP prescribed me an exorbitantly large amount of xanax and told me I could go as high as 4-6 mg per day. :huh:  But this is the same guy who wouldn't give me and rx for physical therapy because he thinks I just need exercise. Oh yeah ,, he also gave me a year's supply of painkillers. He has recently been FIRED!! mel

I was taking 3mg xanax daily for about a year, and then went off it cold turkey. Ouch, had a seizure and some EPS symptoms.

Then I went on diazepam.  Initially 20mg daily but went up yo 40mg daily.

Now I am tapering off that. Am down to 20mg, start on 15mg today.  Within a week or 2 I will be down to 0, taking casually (no more than say 3-4 times per week).

My p-doc has replaced it with seroquel (i am also on paxil) and it has worked wonders for me.  Not only does it have an anti-depressant effect but its a mellow high and do not build tolerance to its anti-anxiety and anti-obsessional properties like you do with benzos.

Benzos are great for those of us with mental illness.  They are best taken for short periods or long periods casually, but some of us need them daily, whether it be for a period of time or indefinitely.

My only advice to everyone out there is do not get hooked on xanax daily.  It is a bitch to come off.  The others, especially diazepam, are much better for daily dosing.

Try taking this to your doctor:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15762817

Gretyl, HUH?

This is the key point. 

i take about 20mg of xanax a month i am prescribed 60 1mg tablets. Only take as needed never had any issues with them.

I take Xanax XR daily.  I have been on it for 2 years now.  My anxiety diagnoses are GAD, Panic Disorder with previous episodes of agoraphobia, and social anxiety disorder.  I tried all the SSRI's without luck.  I did also try a TCA.  My doctor put me on Buspar and we fiddled with the dosage for some time with no positive result.  At the time at which I initiated benzo therapy, I had been seeing my pdoc for 2 years.  I have had concerns about taking Xanax XR, but my pdoc will convince me to stay on it by reminding me that I have tremendous amounts of anxiety which are being helped by the medicine.  I  met another patient of hers and when she told me her medicines she mentioned that it sucked that the pdoc never prescribed benzos.  I agreed.

I wish you luck in being prescribed a benzo for daily use.  It does sound like it is pretty darn hard to do.

Katie

I take 2mg of Ativan three times per day.  I have GAD.  I would never take benzos for years until it became absolutley necessary.  I told my pdoc recently that I think I'm addicted now.  She said that's the least of my worries right now.  Guess it is a quality of life issue.

Rhonda

Nope, Sweden is pretty updated in my opinion. My pdoc has no problem with polypharmacy or benzos (after she realized I really needed them, that is).

Hi,

I take benzo, now I am taking 0,5 to 1 mg klono a day since 2 years, I can take more if I want. I also have zopiclone (lunesta) as a sleep pill, since many months, but it's my emergcey pill when DR is too hard, I take a pill and become OK. Even if the day. My doc doesn't care if it's in the day, as long as it helps.

I tried all benzos: librium, serax, valium, tranxene, xanax....they all game me depression, more depersonalization and confusion (real one), But my doc agreed to let me try it, one by one.

I have to say I suffer from depersonalization and derealization, and my problem give me MAJOR anxiety, memory problems, major depression, confusion. I all had this at nmy delivery, and wasn't taking any meds, besides epidural.

I'm bipolar and have sleep & anxiety issues.  I take Lamictal as my primary mood stabilizer.

I take Ativan PRN for anxiety (several times per week) and I take the Klonopin PRN for "quieting my brain" so I can sleep, and for controlling the mania on *really* bad days.

Every 4 months my pdoc gives me a scrip for 60 1mg Ativan tablets with 2 refills and 30 1mg Klonopin tablets with 3 refills. 

Two 60-tablet bottles of Ativan will last me 12 months. The Klonopin I refill every other month.

I never asked to be put on Ativan, but rather my doc suggested it after we tried to control the anxiety with a number of AD's.

We arrived at using Klonopin for insomnia/brain noise and as an adjunct for mania after trying to control the insomnia with Trazodone, Remeron, Elavil, Serquel, Ambien, Sonata, extra Ativan, and Temazepam/Restoril (didn't work and gave me hangovers from hell).

It seems like a lot of medication, and maybe it is. Yes, the potential for abuse exists.  But, in my case, I have developed a good relationship with my pdoc and she trusts me enough to know I won't abuse the meds.  She's given me the ability to have some level of control over my medication (more some days, less or none on others).  In the end, it all goes back to the fact that no doctor or therapist knows my anxiety and mania as well as I do.

Saw my pdoc yesterday and he said that he does not mind benzos being used as long as one does not take them "too often".  I got a short (very short) supply of diazapam.

I can buy 150 10mg tablets from an acquaintance, so I shall do that to ensure that I have something to help me incase of panic attacks - screw the doctors!

Saying that, he put me on seroquel, so I'm hoping that this will work for my anxiety.  I've read some great things about it.

Actually, my GP wouldn't even fill out the prescription for benzos (my pdoc just gives him a note), so I got nothing from him.  Must of been because I got 10 zopiclone tablets a month ago (eye roll).

I'm in the states, and feel that just trying a benzo would help me immensely.  I'm on my third anti depressant, the other two didn't help me with anxiety at all, yet I can't get a single benzo to try for a day.  I've been to two general doctors, one psychologist and two psychiatrists, and all have said NO.  I've spend a ton of money just in the last year, and all they want to do is push anti depressants on me, and tell me that if it doesn't work for anxiety, just up the dosage.  Yikes!  I've had bad withdrawal effects from Effexor and even Prozac, and I hate going through the alphabet of AD's just to appease my psychiatrist.  End rant

Hi, especially to Username,

I've seen your posts here and about Seroquel. I, too take seroquel and the occasional Xanax XR.

However, I get these medicines legally, from my pdoc. I understand you may have some problems obtaining xanax or another benzo from your current doctors. and unfortunately i am unfamilair w/ UK's health system. However, telling people here that you might get xanax from an "accquaintance" isnt gonna win you any supporters.

i know you are not the only person who has obtained these medicines from "unconventional" sources. But, you are gonna have a really hard time explaining your situation and having people here support you when you do something that is "illegal."

december

Don't worry - I am very unpopular here as it is.  Besides, this is the internet, not real life.

Sometimes it is necessary to be unconventional.

I had a pdoc mention to me one time that the pdocs in the UK and Oz. are often 10-20 years behind the rest of the world.  My gf wanted to do graduate studies in the UK and ultimately decided that she couldn't because it was too unlikely that she'd be able to get the meds she needs there.  Apparently the Benzo thing isn't quite so bad in Ireland but they are still pretty backwards with regards to the cultlike obsession with monotherapy.

My pdoc seemed to think that I would die if I took Wellbutrin and an SSRI.  LOL!

have had the ill luck of falling in the anti-benzo camp of pdocs, so I've been forced to deal with my severe panic disorder and bpd with just paxil and seroquel, which have increasingly not been enoght to keep the wolves at bay...  Friday, I couldn't stop the urges to cut and burn and the wall of emotional overload broke and I ended up in the ER. They gave me some Ativan to keep me from chewing the equipment off the walls and then 2mgs of Klonipin, which I am to take daily...I'm new to the med, but it does seem to help so far

[quote=dreamless,Jun 28 2005, 12:42 AM]
[quote=Sunshine,Jun 28 2005, 03:27 AM]Is all of Europe like this, or just the U.K.?
[/quote]

FWIW, I'm in the U.S. and haven't yet managed to convince a doctor (either the primary or shrink varieties) that I would probably benefit from benzodiazapenes.  (Although, since I have no self-esteem, the manner in which I attempt to convey that I might need this stuff probably could not be called "assertive.") 

When I told my primary care doc that my anxiety was totally out of control (and holy crap was it ever), he told me that could be caused by the Concerta I'm went on for ADD a few months prior.  Maybe I should have mentioned that I've had these sorts of all-out panic episodes for years...

Anyway, he gave me Wellbutrin for the anxiety, which I found odd.  It hasn't helped, or else I can't tell to what degree it may have been helping before I quit it a few weeks ago (just started taking it again out of desperation, though, like, maybe this time it will work, or maybe it was working before and I just managed to avoid noticing the change...).

Maybe I should look for another doc?  Because this is only getting worse.

Hello Queen!  Just finished reading your story on the Miscellaneous board (yes it was long and wordy, but in a good way  )  I'm wondering if you've discussed this all this with your current pdoc yet?  Does he/she know that you stopped the Wellbutrin?  I agree that it's crazy that some people prescribe that one for anxiety.  <shaking my head>  Maybe you got it because of your potential for cycling; it is supposed to be the safest for bipolars.  And yeah, benzos might be helpful (BTW I somehow doubt that "agressiveness" LOL would help you get one!)  You might also discuss atypical antipsychotics like Seroquel, which has the potential to mitigate anxiety, depression, AND mood cycling.

Anyhow, I'd say yes, you definitely need some med tweaks, but whether or not that means a new pdoc, only you can guess.  Welcome!

I'm in the US and my pdocs have all treated the benzo issue differently. My first pdoc gave me Ativan at 2mg/day, and the second made it as needed, which continued for about 2 years to be 2mg/day. My third pdoc didn't like benzos and cut me off of them, I had no withdrawl, and started me on trying all these atypical antipsycotics and even Gabatril to try to control my huge anxiety issue. When I was on the phone with him during an EMERGENCY session to prevent my most recent (2 weeks ago) hospitalization, he finally gave me a script for Klonipin at 1mg 3xday.

Anyway, I ended up in the nut house and saw many different pdocs there. They pretty much agreed that because of my lack of any substance abuse issues (I don't even smoke and never misused Ativan) that they were okay with me being on 2mg klonipin/day.

Since I got out of the hospital I dumped the anti-benzo pdoc and have a new one. He mentioned wanting to take me off of Klonipin, but I will need to emphasize my history and make the case that I am responsible and this is a very good drug for me. My cocktail of Lamictal, Paxil, and Klonipin would not be complete without Klonipin! Nothing has ever helped me so much with my anxiety. The abusers hurt the rest of us who can be responsible and benefit from these drugs.

Hello gretl,

Thank you so much for the constructive feedback.  I'm really in a kind of self-imposed distant wilderness when it comes to navigating these issues - I really have no clue about what I'm doing, I just know that I'm generally not right in the head, and that I have to stop pretending these issues aren't materially impacting me every day, and that it doesn't mean I'm stupid, etc. Anyway, if the average IQ level of participants on this message board - not to get into the hairy issue of "measuring" "intelligence" - is any indication, then "crazy" has clearly never meant "stupid" and I should really sever my cognitive connection between the two.  (Though it bears mentioning that, in almost all cases, I have only applied this "crazy = stupid" equation to myself; I tend to regard most other identifiably nutso individuals as mad geniuses, in point of fact.)

I've probably known that I'm this thing called "bipolar" ever since 1990, when I first read Kate Millett's memoir "Flying" and wondered if, in fact, Kate had somehow insinuated herself into my noggin and wandered out of there with my very own specific thought patterns, and then committed these to paper, and then published that book.  (In which case, she would have required an early start, since the first edition of that book came out when I was four.)

In other words, I had never before read anyone whose writing style was so closely in synch with the way my brain works, and Kate Millett is textbook bipolar (even if, in "The Loony Bin Trip," she makes a convincing case for a different, much more politicized interpretation - a case that is explicitly against the psychiatric industry and everything it stands for).  Later, in 1993, I was a resident at her art colony for women in Poughkeepsie, NY; the next year I had an extremely surreal confrontation with her in her St. Paul flat (which culminated in her passing out, drunk, on her bedroom floor).  The woman is at least as brilliant (and artistically/politically relevant) as she is bug-fuck crazy, which terrifies me to my core because there is still no writer/artist in this world with whom I feel such an authentic affinity. 

(Okay, now where was I?  Oh yeah, responding to your erudite and benevolently rendered comments re: BP and meds.)

I guess now that I've done a bit more reading throughout this board and on the main site, a BP diagnosis (to add to my, ahem, collection now comprised of ADHD, PTSD, & GAD) seems like it could be more of a constructive thing than a kiss of death, or a betrayal of my political impulses (which still cannot help but be suspicious of an industry that seems to be led around, in classically sadomasochistic fashion, by a kind of dog collar, with a Pharmoceutical Industry composite behemoth holding the leash in its very firm grasp). 

So thank you - you in particular for these comments, and everybody else here for challenging me to open up my thinking, to consider ways I might actually achieve a less acutely miserable emotional life.