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Anger Management fail

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Consistent consistent failing at this.. Just had a screaming match at a pedestrian on my bicycle. I am sad because he had a dog with him so it would have been so easy to stop and compliment the dog and then explain to him gently why he was wrong, why very very wide pedestrian area was large enough for the both of us and the doggie, and why cycling there and not on the very dangerous road to the left where several cyclists have been knocked down is the safest option for everybody. IT could have gone so so well and he woudl have learned something about road safety and about starting fights when yo udon't have all the information but NO i had to scream and shout at him like an absolute... who even shouts like that? Like Connor McGreggor without the racisim? Like a viral video of someone having a bad day?  :( WHEN am I going to internalize these lessons.

Just in case yuo think this might have been in any way my fault, it really is an incredibly wide pedestrian area, say about 6 cars in width, and I was no where near him when he started shouting and gesturing at me to get onto the busy road instead

You guys who are going through or have gone through anger management.. have you managed to walk the walk?

The Cow in the PArking lot* described anger as a tennant in my head that I have to evict, but every now and then he will come back in unannounced and just start wrecking things and I'll have to keep evicting him, it will be an ongoing thing, i can't change teh locks, but the idea is he'll come back less often as he gets the message that I live with someone else now



*this is the name of a book, I do not know any talking Cows unfortunately

Edited by Antecedent
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5 hours ago, Antecedent said:

Consistent consistent failing at this.. Just had a screaming match at a pedestrian on my bicycle. I am sad because he had a dog with him so it would have been so easy to stop and compliment the dog and then explain to him gently why he was wrong, why very very wide pedestrian area was large enough for the both of us and the doggie, and why cycling there and not on the very dangerous road to the left where several cyclists have been knocked down is the safest option for everybody. IT could have gone so so well and he woudl have learned something about road safety and about starting fights when yo udon't have all the information but NO i had to scream and shout at him like an absolute... who even shouts like that? Like Connor McGreggor without the racisim? Like a viral video of someone having a bad day?  :( WHEN am I going to internalize these lessons.

Just in case yuo think this might have been in any way my fault, it really is an incredibly wide pedestrian area, say about 6 cars in width, and I was no where near him when he started shouting and gesturing at me to get onto the busy road instead

You guys who are going through or have gone through anger management.. have you managed to walk the walk?

The Cow in the PArking lot* described anger as a tennant in my head that I have to evict, but every now and then he will come back in unannounced and just start wrecking things and I'll have to keep evicting him, it will be an ongoing thing, i can't change teh locks, but the idea is he'll come back less often as he gets the message that I live with someone else now



*this is the name of a book, I do not know any talking Cows unfortunately

Same. I have to keep re-reading it. 

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Another fail today. shouted at some racists. Not that I wish I hadn't engaged with the racists, that I should have let it go, i just think it would have gone better if i'd stayed calm

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4 hours ago, Antecedent said:

Another fail today. shouted at some racists. Not that I wish I hadn't engaged with the racists, that I should have let it go, i just think it would have gone better if i'd stayed calm

Some anger is justified. Nobody is anger free. You've got to be careful when repressing healthy anger.

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Posted (edited)

You are probably right, most of my anger isn't justified though, and it all seems equally justified until afterwards.

Even if my anger is justified sometimes, it doesn't mean it is ever helpful for me, for anyone else, or necessary.

Edited by Antecedent

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1 hour ago, Antecedent said:

Even if my anger is justified sometimes, it doesn't mean it is ever helpful for me, for anyone else, or necessary.

Sometimes it is very helpful because it spurs one to action. If the action is healthy (I mean, not shooting up a lot of people but voicing your opinion, protesting, etc.) then the anger is good. It can even help you to take steps to protect yourself. Anger also helps protect you against emotional pain.

When I was going through a break-up that I neither desired nor expected, my therapist told me that it was time to stop feeling sorry and time to get angry.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah maybe it is helpful for people who haven't got any to see the value of anger, but anger is ruining my life, i nearly lost my job, it is putting my relationship with my partner at risk,  there is no place for it in my life any more and I have to evict it. I can protest and voice my opinion without relying on anger, though I do agree being angry makes it easier to do that, the problem is my anger gets out of control and does  far more damage than work every time it's let out

it's good to have a house cat or maybe even a lynx living with you, maybe even a mountain lion paying the odd visit is ok, so long as it stays in the garden, but there's this Siberian tiger that has set up shop in my bath and I can't get rid of him

Edited by Antecedent
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2 hours ago, Antecedent said:

Yeah maybe it is helpful for people who haven't got any to see the value of anger, but anger is ruining my life, i nearly lost my job, it is putting my relationship with my partner at risk,  there is no place for it in my life any more and I have to evict it. I can protest and voice my opinion without relying on anger, though I do agree being angry makes it easier to do that, the problem is my anger gets out of control and does  far more damage than work every time it's let out

it's good to have a house cat or maybe even a lynx living with you, maybe even a mountain lion paying the odd visit is ok, so long as it stays in the garden, but there's this Siberian tiger that has set up shop in my bath and I can't get rid of him

Well, I wish you luck. I'm skeptical, though, because anger is a basic human emotion. You can manage it but not eradicate it. It's like trying to get rid of sadness. I've never been successful at that.

I understand that unmanaged anger has given you problems in your life. My point is that simply having anger doesn't make you a bad person, and the way your first two posts come off is that you think you are somehow guilty of something horrible. You are not. I think you have fallen short of goals you have set for yourself and you are beating yourself up over it. My secondary point is that I think the goal you have set for yourself is unrealistic. I don't want you to be constantly down on yourself when you don't meet it.

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I fully understand your points but I am not really looking for advice, especially as you don't know the full story, you don't know what I do for a living etc. etc. I hope this doesn't come off as rude, I really don't mean it to, I really appreciate that someone is trying to help me, but you don't have the necessary information to form an opinion on what kinds of decisions I should be making or what kinds of philosophies I should be taking on. I know you didn't mean to, and this might be me being over sensitive, but it is coming over as a little pushy, like you really really want me to say that I'm wrong and adapt my world view to fit yours... and.. well... you know.... feeling like people are trying to control me is one of my anger triggers and as a result I see it everywhere, often where it isn't, so I apologise if this is totally off base. At the same time I do want you to know that I really appreciate you taking the time to listen to me and to reply to my posts

Edited by Antecedent
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Ok. I'm out. I was never trying to control you and was not telling you what to do. I was just offering the best advice I could after years of living. I certainly am not pushing anything on you. All I wanted is for you to go easy on yourself because getting down on oneself is a sure way to lead to depression.

You're right, I don't know the backstory. However, I still feel like I'm right, again based on years of living. So I will once again wish you well and take my leave.

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Sorry for suggesting you wanted to control me, it's just I see that everywhere. you didn't want to control me you just wanted me to accept your advice and go against what feels right for me at this point in my life and do what you say instead because what you say is better for me and you want what's better for me. That is really kind, as I said before it is good having people who care and want good things for me.

You have more years of living your life, you have 0 years, 0 minutes, 0 seconds of living my life, I gotta make my own mistakes, sorry! I am probably doing the wrong thing and I'll probably regret it, but there is no such thing as a regret free life and the worst regrets are the ones when you acted in bad faith by not doing what you thought was right at the time

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10 hours ago, Antecedent said:

Sorry for suggesting you wanted to control me, it's just I see that everywhere. 

Perhaps that’s something else you should be working on in therapy.

10 hours ago, Antecedent said:

You have more years of living your life, you have 0 years, 0 minutes, 0 seconds of living my life, I gotta make my own mistakes, sorry! I am probably doing the wrong thing and I'll probably regret it, but there is no such thing as a regret free life and the worst regrets are the ones when you acted in bad faith by not doing what you thought was right at the time

This suggests to me that nothing anyone says to you is going to be helpful to you, because you’re just going to do what you’re going to do, regardless of anyone’s advice. 

If all you want is a place to vent, I suggest you use your blog.

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10 hours ago, Iguana said:

Perhaps that’s something else you should be working on in therapy.

This suggests to me that nothing anyone says to you is going to be helpful to you, because you’re just going to do what you’re going to do, regardless of anyone’s advice. 

If all you want is a place to vent, I suggest you use your blog.

I  never asked for advice, and you are trying to force it on me. And yes I am working on this in my anger management part of therapy, hence the thread. That was a very snide and nasty remark to make when it is obviuos from the context that that is exactly what I am working on, that plus the fact taht I specifically said earlier that i knew taht percieving i was being controlled was one of my triggers and that i am ususlalyy wron gabout it.  Why don't you just say "go take your happy pills" while you are at it!? you know i am doing my best, oh no, you don't, you think what i am doing is not good enough because it is not what you think i should do and want to make sure i know that i'm f***ing it all up

 

this is a CONFESSIONAL i CONFESSED something. And people give advice in blogs as well.... I WORK WITH MANY RACISTS AND I WILL LOSE MY JOB IF I GET ANGRY AT THEM

Can you udnerstand that? I am allowed to calmly discuss with them or tell them I disagree or I am allowed to let it go IF I GET ANGRY I WILL LOSE MY JOB

And someone comes in here telling me no no no, anger is healthy, you should have it, you were right to get angry at those racists

I have already gotten warnings about this, if I get another one there is a really good chance I will be fired


But no no no, the mods are teh god damned expert and you get to insult me and gang up on me because i didn't treat one of you like a magical oracle who can see into my life and offer me advice whether asked for or not

Why do you want me to be unemployed? Do you not think people with anger issues shoudl have jobs? Is that it? Why do you want me to destroy my life by doing what I did in this post?

And then you tell be to basically f*** off your board and onto my blog, but all i did was what the purpose of this board is, I confessed a mistake. So I'm not welcome here unless i treat everyone as if they were some kind of magical all seeing oracle that somehow knew about my life and what i should do based on a short post. Do you come here to support people or do you come here to stroke your own ego and feel like an expert?

and I am very very very angry right now I am sure you are both delighted because you want me to be angry, was that the purpose of all of this pushyness/ all of this forcing your world view and yoru philosophy on to me? Was it to make me angry and make me see that i am a complete and utter failure and i will never ever ever manage to deal with this and i might as well just quit my job and quit college nad give up on all my dreams because anger will follow me everywhere because i am always going to meet people like you who just can't live and let live and have to have everyone agree with them on everything and have everyone think all their opinions are brilliant and universally and objectively ture

I really really feel ganged up on. what is the point in being here if it is just a board to give bad advice and get people fired. I had the "anger is healthy" philosophy my entire life and it destroyed relationships and friendships and jobs and now you are telling me to hold onto it, thanks, that's great advice, sure, i'll follow it, wonderful

self rigthous anger is just as toxic as all other kinds of anger, i am feeling loads of it right now, i should thank you for giving me a chance to practice trying to talk myself out of this. I'd rather delete my account and never come back but thanks to my anger management i know that by doing that i would be hurting myself in order to hurt you (even though you would just roll your eyes) and that it is a form of passive aggression that would really not help anything*




*that's not the only reason why someone might delete their account, it just just the reason why I would do it at this moment and it is 100% personal for me and anyone who has thought about doing this, don't think that I would think that about you, it is just something i know about myself

Edited by Antecedent
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i feel calm now and i really want to delete that post but you guys think that anger is valuable so i'll leave it :( I really don't think that was valuable, i didn't say anything that wasn't already in the thread and i did misrepresent your positions and attack you and get overly defensive and do all the things i do when i'm angry, and i wasn't even that angry, if i had gotten really angry i wouldn't be calm yet and i'd be still crying and pacing around  40 minutes later and i might have broken something

the other problem with that is because it's an attack people might feel they need to defend themselves and so this will just keep going when the discussion really should have ended when i basically said "thanks but no thanks". I firmly believe people have the right to say no to advice, or to anything for that matter.

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I feel very compelled to jump in here and give my perspective, as I can fully understand and relate to Antecedent’s perspective and dilemma. 

I can relate because I couldv written her OP easily and could also easily see myself reacting and feeling the same way she did in her replies. 

But I care deeply for all of you here so I am going to try to be as gentle and objective as possible because losing people I care about is extremely painful to me. 

That said, I’d like to share the view that this board is specifically labeled The Confessional. When confessing something, it’s not always advice you are seeking, but something that is eating at your soul and need to express it somewhere so it’s not just sitting there, rotting your self-worth. 

The OP may have been seeking advice... but probably was hoping for something more along the lines of how to deal with that anger. 

There is healthy anger that is very good for spurring action. But there is definitely a line where it becomes extremely unhealthy and detrimental to almost every aspect of one’s life. When it’s chronic, and feeling like it’s uncontrollable, and that it’s affecting your very livelihood, there is a serious problem. That’s why there is court ordered anger management classes. It’s also responsible for increased risk of health problems including an 8% increased risk of having a heart attack. 

The OP made it clear that it was having a negative effect on close to every aspect of her life. Losing important relationships, jeopardizing her livelihood, isn’t healthy anger. The line has been crossed. Out of control anger becomes rage. Rage is an extremely scary, awful, out of control feeling. I’m speaking of my own experiences here throughout. And feeling/being out of control would be a very good explanation of a person being sensitive to having what control he/she possesses being taken away or feeling controlled since it’s something that is so lacking.

I feel sad that the OP was told to keep her venting reserved for her blog. The way she explained her anger was indeed a sign of very unhealthy anger and probably felt invalidated when the seriousness was not addressed. Again, I’m speaking from personal experience here and the post hit so close to home I could’ve easily written it myself. Perhaps if someone reads the post and hasn’t personally suffered the effects of extreme anger/rage the seriousness could be hard to understand.

We all want to help each other here...so the responses, I feel, came from a genuine desire to help. But I do think some missed the point. 

Anger that is all-consuming, wrecking important relationships, and on the verge of losing one’s job is something worthy of a confession in my humble opinion...

To be told that said person obviously doesn’t want help would be extremely painful to hear. I think she needed help with her predicament where the seriousness didn’t fully register. 

To be told to keep your confessions to your  blog, feels like utter rejection. Feels like one has been suddenly ostracized from a place that has always been a refuge from constant agony and a real life of constantly being ostracized. To suddenly feel that here is heartbreaking. I say that because that is exactly how I would be feeling right now. 

I’m sorry this ended up being a novella...it hit me hard and deep.

I really hope this isn’t going to be the norm. I personally feel more scared now to post a confession that I’ve already been too scared to post for fear of judgment or being misunderstood.

I am really hoping that I didn’t hurt anyone with my own confession via this reply...

As I said I cherish every one of you and couldn’t bear suddenly being shunned to my blog.

I really, really hope.

Edit: I should note, my irritability and rage has drastically improved since being increased on estrogen...so there can also be physiological reasons for this. But there are so many origins, that to explore where the origins lie, to be able to effectively start to heal. 

Edited by DammitJanet
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Side note: Evidence (and my current tdoc) suggests that breaking dishes, beating pillows, or any violent expression does not help alleviate extreme anger...the opposite actually...often intensifies it. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/overcoming-destructive-anger/201705/should-you-visit-anger-room

Edited by DammitJanet
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Just to clarify (and you can read the rules of The Confessional yourself). The Confessional is a place where people can post without fear of judgment and being attacked for what they confessed. You can and should expect supportive advice unless you request a moderator to lock the thread immediately which you can do only in The Confessional.

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It wasn't so much that your advice wasn't welcome so much as the insistence that I follow it and your attack on my life and my thoughts and my philosophy and my goals. I said thanks but no thanks and got really pushy and you even told me my therapy goals were unrealistic. I̶ ̶a̶m̶ ̶g̶l̶a̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶e̶l̶s̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶V̶I̶C̶I̶O̶U̶S̶.̶ ̶I still can't believe you haven't apologised, not for your initial advice and perspective, which I still appreciate, but for this relentless insistence that I am wrong about my life (and that my counsellor is wrong and that my anger management books are wrong). I have apologised numerous times for my part in this and at no point have you acknowledged the fact that you being so rude


". I'm skeptical"
" I think the goal you have set for yourself is unrealistic. "
"I still feel like I'm right, again based on years of living. "

If you knew my life you would realise how monumentally wrong and unfollowable and your advice would be applied to my life and my situation, seriously, what your therapist told you in your situation based on a lot of knowledge of you  is not relevant to me and your (almost) zero knowledge of me and your therapist would never have said those words to me, believe me.


D̶o̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶h̶o̶w̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶h̶u̶r̶t̶s̶  I felt very hurt when you said these things because for me to be told I could train myself to deal with anger and not act on it was to be offered a life line by therapy and books and ̶t̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶e̶l̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶u̶n̶r̶e̶a̶l̶i̶s̶t̶i̶c̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶i̶c̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶h̶o̶p̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶m̶e̶?̶ ̶D̶o̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶i̶z̶e̶ ̶h̶o̶w̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶h̶u̶r̶t̶s̶?̶  when I read you saying that this life line was unrealistic what that meant to me was that there was no hope for me. I have this tightness in my chest from it from the fear that you are right because I spent decades beliving what you said, that anger is healthy, and anger just ruined so much of my  life. I lost so many friends, i spent years without friends, i lost a relationship (it was doomed anyway, but that still casts a shadow over the current one), and as I said i'm on the point of losing my current job and as i put in my blog my partner told me if i don't sort this anger problem out he'd leave me and then you come along and tell me it's impossible and give up and i say basically "thanks but no thanks" and you say "i still feel like i'm right" t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶r̶u̶d̶e̶.̶  ̶I I did not have good feelings when  I read that. I really want y̶o̶u̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶r̶n̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶  to help you understand but it doesn't seem like i'm getting through. i really don't want to cause any upset to you but i̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶r̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶o̶k̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶*̶*̶*̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶h̶o̶p̶e̶.̶ I felt as though someone were s***ing on my only hope and it was not a good feeling and I would feel better if i knew you understood that because right now your not understanding this is making me feel... i don't know how to say it... frustrated, the way people feel when they are gaslit, though i know your intention is not to gaslight

*edit: tried to cross out the angry language and rephrase this using anger management skills making it about my feelings and not about you and what you did, left in the original because of your feelings about anger

Edited by Antecedent

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Everyone -

The nature of this particular board, The Confessional, is such that gripping fears, strong emotions, and reflexive rebuttal combine to make both contributors and readers more vulnerable than usual. The Moderating Team understands this dynamic, and its tendency to result in conflict. The actions and feelings herein "confessed" often generate a sympathy and desire to both help and validate a member's struggle with an eagerness proportional to the distress. Unfortunately, this eagerness and concern is sometimes misconstrued as overbearing. We Moderators are not immune to this, as we are members first, and may suffer in similar ways to a member posting.

In the present case, it appears that some of the standard methods we Moderators use to both guide the direction of threads and challenge members to new perspectives on their struggle did not have the desired effect. As a result of the defensive reaction (not uncommon when a person posting is already predisposed to fear judgment) the actions and comments of our Moderators in this thread have been incorrectly characterized as having particular motivations. We are gratified that Antecedent was able to come to this conclusion independently. In a broader sense, though, we still feel we must address the particulars to alleviate any misunderstanding by the general reader.

jt07 and Iguana(Gearhead) both suggested that Antecedent take the discussion to a blog - not in an attempt to silence or divert the discussion, but because many of our members have found our blogspace a very effective means of self-expression and self-therapy. Indeed, Antecedent commented on feeling better having written in the blog, afterward.

The issue of unsolicited advice seems important here, and in need of clarification. Crazyboards is a peer-support forum. By definition and by inference, a person posting to the boards here should expect advice from peers, even here in The Confessional. A claim that a person did not ask for advice seems inconsistent with this interactive nature of the forum. Our blogspace, on the other hand, is intended for more freeform and open expression, and members have the ability to control whether comments (and the advice they may contain) are accepted at all.

No Mod or Admin is going to insist that any member change a belief, habit, or treatment - we have neither that power nor that authority, and are first and foremost members here ourselves. If we err in seeming to be too emphatic, it is out of genuine concern for members' well-being... and because we're also human. (Well, some are. I don't think I'm entirely human, but have no proof.) Regardless, none of us is ever motivated to force any kind of change in a member, and we trust that an understanding of that basic truism may help prevent future misunderstanding. The last thing we want is for our members to come here and feel worse when they leave then when they arrive. Because, yes, we do know how much it hurts. We're just trying to help keep peace in the asylum.

With this, we consider the matter closed.

 

Cerberus
For the Moderating Team

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