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MattMVS7

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Posts posted by MattMVS7


  1. By the importance you put on pleasure, and now anhedonia... Welcome to the paradox of hedonism.

    Over stimulation leads to numbness... It takes time and life changes to appreciation of simple things like breathing...If you lose that ability

    Guaranteed you will want that breath within a few minutes more than anything else on Earth.

    I was a alcoholic for 30 years, I wasn't able to stop untill I found something positive to replace that need. But it took over a year till I could get myself stabilized and thinking straight.

    For me it was education, I found that learning can be fun. You never run out of things to learn, or how to apply what you learn to your life. I have been doing it for 8 1/2 years, and still sober.

    All you have to do is change your mind on what you find enjoyable, and make it something that helps you in a positive way.

     

    I'm glad you have found something in your life of good value and have moved on.  However, that does not and will never apply to me.  My pleasure is my own true defined personal good value and greatness in life and nothing can ever change that no matter what.


  2. Anhedonia can indeed be a negative symptom of schizophrenia or really any psychosis, and it can be difficult to treat. I'm assuming that you don't have psychosis because you are posting in the Depression Forum. Anhedonia due to depression generally resolves when the underlying depression resolves. If yours hasn't resolved, I suspect the underlying depression is not being effectively treated.

     

    I am no longer depressed (or, at least, there are only brief moments of mild depression that last from either 20 minutes to an hour each day).  My anhedonia did result from an episode of severe depression though which was an episode that has completely passed.  But as the depression from that episode continued to get better and better, my anhedonia has gotten worse and worse.  Therefore, it wouldn't make any sense to say that this depression being unresolved is causing my anhedonia to perpetuate.  Therefore, my anhedonia must of been caused by schizophrenia or could of resulted from my depression in a different way such as that the depression has caused me brain damage and that the mind is turning off my emotions in order to try and repair itself since stress and depression are known to cause damage to the brain.


  3. (NOTE TO READER:  I AM ON THE VERGE OF GOING INTO SOME PSYCHOTIC RAGE.  PLEASE READ EVERYTHING I'M SAYING HERE.  I KNOW IT IS LONG-WINDED LIKE MY OTHER POSTS.  BUT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT HERE AND NO ONE SHOULD HAVE DISRESPECT AND BELITTLE MY SITUATION BY TELLING ME THINGS SUCH AS THAT I AM JUST WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME HERE AND THAT I SHOULD JUST TAKE THIS ELSEWHERE AND/OR KEEP IT TO MYSELF):

     

    My anhedonia (chronic absence of pleasure) that is there all the time 24/7 in which there are never any brief moments of pleasure, I was told by my doctor (psychiatrist) that this is a negative symptom of schizophrenia since I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia and that there is no validated treatment for it and that I am just going to have to learn to live with it.  There is no way I could ever possibly accept living a life in which I have no pleasure to enjoy anything in my life.  My pleasure, to me, is more important than the air I breathe to stay alive.  I live off my pleasure.  It's more important to me than my heart which beats to keep me alive.  Me having this strong desire to have my full pleasure back in life is not just some want.  It is far more important than a want and is far more important than a need.  Needs are defined as being more important than wants since needs are things that we use to survive such as the air we breathe and such.  But since my pleasure is far more important to me than any of those other needs to survive, then my pleasure is more important than some need.  It is an intrinsic part of me that defines me and my life as being good and worth living.  I would rather be dead from lack of air and other things than to live a life of no pleasure.

     

    To me, how I feel is the only thing that matters in terms of my personal life.  In other words, if I feel good, then that means me and my life are going great.  But if I feel bad or if I don't feel anything, then me and my life are nothing good at all.  It doesn't matter how much I help others and make their lives good without my pleasure, me and my own personal life are still nothing good at all without my pleasure.  All my personality traits such as my intelligence, creativity, and everything else in life are nothing good at all in terms of my own personal life without my pleasure.  This is a strict value and belief I hold.  Please do not try and change it at all.  Otherwise, that will cause me to become enraged and psychotic.  This is because I MUST have my life of full pleasure back and I could never possibly accept my absence of pleasure and to live for other things in life instead without my pleasure.  Yes, I still value other good people such as my family.  But since I have just as much good value as any other good person, then that gives me every right to have focus towards myself and to want my own personal life of pleasure given back to me.  To say that I have no right to have value and focus towards that and that I should instead focus and live for other things and for other people would be no different than if I came up to you and told you to have all the attention and focus towards me.  

     

    Therefore, it would be selfish of you to tell me so and it would be selfish and offensive for me to tell you to abandon your own values in life just so you could live a life that is not only nothing good at all without that said thing in your life which was the one and only thing that made your life good and worth living, but is also a life in which you have abandoned your own value (focus) towards yourself and are catering to me.  So if I can never recover my pleasure, then that gives me every right to end my life since I have just as much good value as any other good person.  Since I am a good person, then why keep me alive just to suffer with a life that is nothing good at all?  Also, I wouldn't be having lesser good value towards my family and other people in me choosing to end my life.  Rather, the good value that I once invested towards the message of me living for my family and helping them out, this good value has been redirected towards another message of value towards my family.  This new message would say that I just wish for them to move on and find their own ways and strengths in life without me and that I still have full good value towards them even though I have chosen to end my life.  I wouldn't of chosen to end my life with a message towards my family such as that I just don't care for them anymore and that I am the only one who matters in life.  Therefore, since I wouldn't be having such a thought towards my family in me choosing to end my life, then I wouldn't be having lesser good value towards them if I were to choose to end my life.  If I can't get my pleasure back, then I will end my life.  I won't have it any other way.

     

    I was on some other depression forum with a user who went by the name "itstrevor."  He said that even though anhedonia does tend to recover for many people, those people who have anhedonia due to schizophrenia tend to not fully recover.  He said that many people with anhedonia do tend to fully recover and that once they recover, it tends to remain recovered.  But as for people with schizophrenia, the anhedonia in schizophrenia tends to be an intractable problem.  He says that anhedonia that is a result of other things in life besides mental illnesses such as Parkinson's disease and schizophrenia, that this version of anhedonia tends to recover since there has been no loss/damage of axons in the brain.  But as for something such as Parkinson's disease and schizophrenia, these mental illnesses cause damage/loss of axons.  Which is why I am asking here if there is some intelligent expert in the mental health field who can tell me if there is any chance of recovery from this anhedonia, what my chances of recovery are, and if it is really due to schizophrenia.  If it's due to something else, then it just might be likely to fully recover.

     

    But in the event that it doesn't recover or doesn't sufficiently recover, then to tell me to accept this anhedonia and that I am just going to have to learn to live with it, this would be a complete mockery and insult to me and to the one and only good and greatest life there is to me which would be a life of as much pleasure and as little suffering/little absence of pleasure as possible.  It says to me that I am just going to have to accept and learn to live a life that is nothing good at all without my pleasure.  How we accept problems and move forward in life can only happen if we have found other things in life that makes our lives good despite our problems.  Some people might claim that they can still live their lives even if there is nothing good about them and their lives.  However, these people would of attributed a good value towards living such a life such as them saying that they are fine accepting and moving on in such a life.  Otherwise, if they didn't attribute any good value at all, then they would find no reason to accept and move forward in such a life.  Therefore, since my pleasure has and always will be the only good thing in my personal life, then I can never accept this anhedonia.

     

    I am going to tell you just how much my pleasure matters to me and how enraged I would be if I were to lose it for life.  If there was some ferocious lion who somehow took my pleasure away from me and told me that I am just going to have to accept and learn to live with this loss of pleasure, then I would become an enraged psychopath and would slaughter this lion.  I don't care how dangerous and ferocious this lion is.  My pleasure is the one and only thing that defines me and my personal life as being good and I would fearlessly go and slaughter that lion even if it meant me being mauled to death since my life wouldn't matter without my pleasure.  Even the most elite trained warriors might have fear facing something such as lion.  But not me.  I would become so enraged that there would be no trace of fear.

     

    My pleasure is so vehemently important to me since it was a very profound good experience for me and my life and made me and my personal life good and worth living.  My personal experience of depression and anhedonia also made me realize just how important it is to have pleasure in life and just how devastating it is to lose your pleasure.  You can take away my limbs, you can take away my sight, and you can take away my hearing.  But if you take away my pleasure, then...

     

    So as you can clearly see here, my pleasure is what personally defines my human existence as being good and worth living.  Absolutely nothing is going to take that away from me and leave me in a permanent anhedonic state.  No one or anything else in this life is going to take away and try and change my personal values and beliefs regarding my pleasure either.


  4. This anhedonia is the result of brain damage due to stress since depression is stress. When the brain is damaged due to stress, the brain then turns off your pleasure and/or other emotions in order to repair this damage because having those emotions turned on anyway might cause serious and/or fatal problems.  As for the depression, this is a natural stress response in response to my anhedonia since I feel depressed since my pleasure was the one and only good thing in my life that made me and my life good and worth living.  Taking care of the depression is not going to help this anhedonia any since this anhedonia has something to do instead with brain damage and the brain trying to repair/restore itself.  Even though I did have a moment of severe chronic depression in the past and my anhedonia has immediately resulted from that depression, as this moment of severe chronic depression went away completely, my anhedonia has gotten worse and I am now stuck with complete anhedonia.  I was depressed in the past about my panic disorder being treatment resistant since there are people who have treatment resistant panic disorders.  But that severe depression has past and I am now left with severe chronic anhedonia.  I now feel only mildly depressed now having this anhedonia.  This depression was also somewhat severe at first.  But this depression has now been reduced to a minimal state while my anhedonia has been increased to the maximum chronic state.

     

    Therefore, the depression is not the problem here.  I know that people do say that anhedonia is a symptom of depression.  But I'm not thinking the depression is the problem here anymore.  Rather, I think I might need to find ways that will help my brain repair itself more quickly so that I can recover my pleasure more quickly.


  5. Depression (including anhedonia which is an absence of pleasure) are, in a way, sort of like the flu. It comes and goes. You first get sick. But over time, the mind and body heal themselves and you are back to being completely well. This is because it is vital to get back to the state of your full normal well-being. Otherwise, your chances of survival (thriving in life) are slim. So it is vital that your mind and body restore its survival mechanisms. This would even include pleasure since pleasure is something vital for our thriving and survival in life. Far more people feel depressed having an absence of pleasure than there are people who are fine with and accept an absence of pleasure. This would be because pleasure is so vital to our survival as I've said before. Depression, in addition to being perhaps a chemical imbalance, can also be a natural stressful response. Depression can sometimes be a response that warns us that something is wrong in our lives that we need to change. This holds true in my case since my depression is not a chemical imbalance or anything of the sort at all. Rather, it is a response to my anhedonia (absence of pleasure). This depression response (feeling of hopelessness) is warning me that I must have my life of full pleasure that I solely value so much in order for me to live a good worthwhile life.

    Therefore, since pleasure is so very important for me and my life and is very important for many other people, then this is why the mind restores itself back to normal and that your full normal amount of pleasure should soon be fully restored back to you. You should be able to soon fully recover from depression and/or anhedonia and live the life of full pleasure that makes a vital part of your one and only life good and worth living. However, my anhedonia has been going on for 7 months, there are never any brief moments of pleasure, and it still hasn't gotten any better. As a matter of fact, it has only gotten worse over time and I am now left with complete chronic anhedonia. Therefore, I think I might have some condition that is preventing me from recovering. Usually, when you get the flu, you soon recover over time. But you then have some people who have the flu for prolonged periods due to some other type of condition/abnormality perpetuating the flu. Therefore, this might be what is going on with me here. Therefore, once I take care of this condition that is preventing me from recovering from this anhedonia, then I should have my full pleasure back to me in life.


  6. So...are you recruiting for your cult of personality? I ask because you clearly don't want advice on how to help yourself, just unquestioning support for your warped worldview.

    It doesn't work that way here. You've been given some excellent advice. Now it's up to you whether you take it or not.

     

    Those philosophical values and beliefs I have and their arguments are long out of the way now which is the reason why I am obviously now engaging in an actual conversation with others here (which is what this forum is intended for).


  7.  

    The medication I was on was prozac, olanzipine, and clonapine.  But since I heard that medication can make anhedonia worse than what it already is and can actually make your anhedonia permanent, then this is why I have stopped those medications completely and have been off of them for 5 months so far.  Many people have had years of anhedonia just from medication alone since those medications have damaged their brains since medication is a marketing scam that damages many people's lives, but does help some other people.  However, my anhedonia wasn't caused by the medication at all and was instead triggered by that depression.  

     

     

    I feel for you.  Anhedonia and depression are terrible.  However, you were on three medications.  Three.  Compared to the number of medications that are out there, you have just scratched the surface, and then gave up because "you heard that medication can... make your anhedonia permanent."   Well, it kind of sounds like your anhedonia is pretty permanent already, to the point that you are seriously considering killing yourself (you have even constructed an entire value system to justify this act) so what are you afraid of, exactly?  

     

    I get it, though.  I think the current paradigm that people need to stay on medication all of their lives and should never, ever try to go off of them is misguided.  But I don't think that that means all big pharma is evil and you shouldn't take medication and it can't help people.  

     

    You yourself say that your anhedonia was not caused by medication, so I'm not exactly sure why you didn't keep trying other medications if your experience wasn't showing that medication was causing anhedonia or making it worse.

     

    You also say that medication can help some people.  Why are you convinced it can't help you?  It really sounds like you are desperate and shouldn't be turning down help right now, even if that help comes in pill form.  Or in the form of a swift kick in the arse from Olga.  I can tell you that olga has a fair amount of what you want and value most, pleasure, in spite of having experienced depression, so perhaps you might consider what she has to say.  

     

    I haven't had exactly the same problems as you, but my negative symptoms and depression (somewhat similar to anhedonia perhaps) were greatly improved when I started taking Wellbutrin.  There are countless other members on here who would tell you that medication has helped them, if not saved their lives.

     

    You dismiss Cerberus' well thought out response about the value of suffering as just him asserting values, yet you make this statement

     

     

     

     

     

    Well, rage is a feeling.

     

    I've lost three people to suicide in the last two years, and let me say that neither I nor any other any of their other survivors have found inspiration in their deaths. Just pain and loss and grief and confusion. And guilt. Let's not forget the guilt.

     

    Even my own family is just going to die in the end of old age anyway.  Therefore, they might as well just kill themselves too and there would be no sense in living for them either.  This does not mean I have less good value towards them.  It means that my good value that has been invested towards the message of living for them, this good value has instead been redirected towards a different message (a different good value towards them) which would be for them to find their own ways and strengths in life without me and also that they should die in peace as well even though I still have full good value towards them.  I might have already said this, though I am not sure.  

     

     

    Which, I don't know...  Is just you expressing your values.  I'm not sure why you use the idea of a statement being subjective or an opinion as a reason for you to totally dismiss any merits it may have.  

     

     

     

    I would be inspiring to people around the world and would have made the best of my life in me choosing to end my life and this would have at least made me the greater person despite my anhedonia.  I would be inspiring because I inspire people to never accept anything inferior in their lives and to destroy all problems in their lives that keep them from living the true lives they want to live.  My true life that I wanted to live would just be having my full normal pleasure back to me in life.  So if I can never recover that, then the inspiring message now would be for me to end my life since me living this life anyway would be an utter mockery and insult to the one and only good and greatest life I wanted to live.

     

    By ending your life, you would be eliminating the possibility of you ever achieving greatness as you define it, which is you regaining your sense of pleasure.  Although I disagree with your value system of placing pleasure above all else.

     

    If you are unwilling to hear anyone challenge your antipsychiatry rants, your philosophy or your poor attitude, perhaps you should find a different site on which to post.  As Wooster said, sometimes the most compassionate response is challenging someone's beliefs/assertions.  We don't walk on eggshells here.  So far I am not seeing your time on this site as having been very productive.

     

     

    The reason why I am only choosing to take Parnate and not any other medication is because there is no way I am taking the risk of having my already existing anhedonia become permanent through SSRIS and antipsychotics.  I will wait for this anhedonia to recover without such medication that might make it permanent.

     

    As for my values, those other values people have might very well have merit and might be true.  However, even if I were aware that those values others have are true, then I would still fully stick to my own values anyway since I live by my own values and no one else's and won't live by and/or be dictated by the values of others.  Again, think of how demeaning and offensive it would be for me to tell you to live by and be dictated by my values.


  8. Well, rage is a feeling.

     

    I've lost three people to suicide in the last two years, and let me say that neither I nor any other any of their other survivors have found inspiration in their deaths. Just pain and loss and grief and confusion. And guilt. Let's not forget the guilt.

     

    Even my own family is just going to die in the end of old age anyway.  Therefore, they might as well just kill themselves too and there would be no sense in living for them either.  This does not mean I have less good value towards them.  It means that my good value that has been invested towards the message of living for them, this good value has instead been redirected towards a different message (a different good value towards them) which would be for them to find their own ways and strengths in life without me and also that they should die in peace as well even though I still have full good value towards them.  I might have already said this, though I am not sure.  


  9.  

     

     

    If I end my life in the event that my anhedonia never seems to recover, then I would also be glad...

     

    If you end your life, there is no guarantee there will be an entity known as "you" to experience the gladness you expect or hope to achieve, nor the relief from lack of pleasure.

     

     

    I'd much rather be dead than live such a life of mockery and insult.  Also, since I am just going to die anyway of old age and that there is no afterlife of eternal pleasure as a reward for my worthless inferior life of no pleasure, then I might as well die anyway.  There is no sense in me living a full life that is nothing more than a mockery and an insult to me.  So I might as well end it.  But only providing that my anhedonia doesn't recover.  I will live for the future first for a possible recovery.  If there doesn't seem to be any recovery, then I would end my life.

     

    Now about what I said earlier in which I was acting out towards one of the mods here, it's just that people who are not like my family and therapist and do have at least some agitation/scorn towards me, I become enraged towards such people.  They did not have full respect and compassion towards me like my family and therapist did.  And neither should I in return.  Especially since this is a very serious situation I am in and is not just some situation in which I have a very minor loss in life and that I am just simply being some spoiled brat. 


  10.  

    MattMVS7 -

     

    I have read through your polemic, and it is clear that you have considered it deeply and constructed an elaborate array of logical props to support it.  I, too, suffer from Depression and anhedonia, though my experience of it has lasted a bit longer - nearly 30 years - so I will offer you the possible benefit of my greater experience and longer effort in intellectualizing the reasons for my suffering.

     

    The reason that your base argument fails to persuade others is that it stands upon a misunderstanding of what life is for.  Human life is a crucible - a place where our spirit is tested against both the temptations of pleasure and the trials of suffering until the dross is cast away and the true metal of our selves is revealed.  Without suffering, there is no change, no growth, no improvement.  In this material realm, unmitigated pleasure inevitably leads to suffering either through excess or through becoming so accustomed to the pleasure that one is then numb to it and no longer finds it pleasurable, leading to a yearning for something else unobtainable.

     

    Without this fundamental underpinning, your many paragraphs of argument are simply syllable soup with a side of logical hash.  Some of your statements are absurd on their face, but you are unable to see this because you have invested so heavily in the false premise.  For instance, you claim that only through pleasure can anyone appreciate beauty.  That's not only wrong, but oftentimes the beauty of a thing only becomes evident to those who have experienced suffering.  Another skyhook upon which you hang your arguments is the notion that you have a life of pleasure that you could return to, or worse, that you are owed.  Every human being, whether afflicted with depression or not, has both positive and negative experiences, and there is no formula or accounting for their number.  And neither Life, nor God, nor Fate owes any of us a damn thing.  Our gift is the gift of the opportunity to live and make the most of what we have while we're here.

     

    Suffering is, if anything, another gift that allows us to grow and change.  Biologically, no organism changes the status quo on the basis of pleasure and abundance; only scarcity and need.  I have suffered a great deal in my time - perhaps more than many, perhaps more than I deserved - but I do not resent it.  I am a better person for it.  Anhedonia is a constant with me, and continues to dull my existence more and more, but even though I will not live forever, I don't try rushing to end my life because I know that the duller this life becomes, the more fantastic and blissful the next will seem by comparison.

     

    If you consider yours to be an objective and logical mind, I challenge you to step back to your base premise and - if only as a thought exercise - think through the argument from a different perspective.  You are certainly not weak; you mind is strong, if misdirected.  And no one is inferior.

     

    Now this is just all your own values and beliefs and I am glad that you have made the best of your life.  However, I live by my own rules and my own values and beliefs which do say to me that my pleasure is the one and only good and greatest thing in life.  I live by my own defined greatness which would be my pleasure.  I will not attempt to change your values and beliefs just as you would not try and change mine.  For me, the true metal of myself that is revealed through my suffering (my true greatness in terms of my attitude and personality), this would be me choosing to end my life in the event that my anhedonia does not seem to recover.  I would be inspiring to people around the world and would have made the best of my life in me choosing to end my life and this would have at least made me the greater person despite my anhedonia.  I would be inspiring because I inspire people to never accept anything inferior in their lives and to destroy all problems in their lives that keep them from living the true lives they want to live.  My true life that I wanted to live would just be having my full normal pleasure back to me in life.  So if I can never recover that, then the inspiring message now would be for me to end my life since me living this life anyway would be an utter mockery and insult to the one and only good and greatest life I wanted to live.

     

    If I end my life in the event that my anhedonia never seems to recover, then I would also be glad since I would no longer have to live by the rules and values of others who tell me that I should live to make the best of my life anyway and to live for other good things in my life besides my pleasure.  I will not live by such loathsome values that only deny my own values and make me a slave to instead living a life I do not want at all.


  11. And by the way, your diatribe against one of our mods including not caring if she dies makes you a bigger asshole than the mods and violates our user agreement. I realize that you are in pain, so consider this an informal warning.

     

    If you are cool towards me, then I will be cool in return.  But if you are not cool towards me, then I won't be in return and I have every right to not be cool in return.  Only if you are cool towards me in the first place would I then have no right to not be cool in return.  But since you were not cool towards me by belittling my situation and such while I was cool towards you in the first place, then I have every right to act the way I did.


  12. You say you are doing everything to recover, but you don't say what it is. Maybe you said something a long time ago, but it would be helpful to know what you are doing now. What kind of antidepressants are you taking? SSRIs can cause anhedonia, but there are other antidepressants that don't and there are ways to reduce the anhedonia caused by SSRIs. But we have no way of knowing what you are taking. We also have no way of knowing what kind of therapy you are getting. There are many different therapeutic modalities out there. But we have no way of knowing what you are doing to get well because you don't tell us. Instead, you write long essays expounding on the value of your life with anhedonia.

     

    Suicide is not an option. Anhedonia is not permanent in depression and can be combated. Anhedonia sucks; there's no doubt about that. But you don't give up. You keep fighting until you find the right meds and the right therapy for you.

     

    The medication I was on was prozac, olanzipine, and clonapine.  But since I heard that medication can make anhedonia worse than what it already is and can actually make your anhedonia permanent, then this is why I have stopped those medications completely and have been off of them for 5 months so far.  Many people have had years of anhedonia just from medication alone since those medications have damaged their brains since medication is a marketing scam that damages many people's lives, but does help some other people.  However, my anhedonia wasn't caused by the medication at all and was instead triggered by that depression.  I have every reason to believe that my anhedonia was caused by the depression because I never had anhedonia in my entire life being on these medications.  But immediately in that exact given moment when I began to have that moment of severe depression, that is when my anhedonia was there.  My depression has gotten better and has faded away.  But my anhedonia has gotten worse and now it is at its worst stage in which I am completely absent of all feelings of pleasure.  So this is why I am getting Parnate instead because I don't think I've heard of it causing brain damage.  As for therapy, I am doing relaxation techniques because I think anhedonia might be a stress response in my case that turns off your pleasure and that calming that stress response down over time might help the anhedonia get better (though I am not sure).

     

    As for anhedonia not being a permanent state of mind, I'm not too sure on this.  There are many people who report having anhedonia last for years and years (even decades) with hardly any to no relief (recovery).  Although there are people who have depression that lasts for years and years with hardly any relief, I think these would be the few people since depression is something I think tends to come and go with some people (it does in my case).  But as for anhedonia, that always tends to linger on and never recover since it is the result of an abnormal complete change in the brain and isn't a normal stress response like depression can sometimes be in response to a normal stressful life event that tends to pass over time for some people.


  13.  

    Matt...what have you done so far to fix the pain you are in?

    What steps will you commit to to fix the pain you are in?

    Stickler, he's doing nothing.

    He's talking to hear himself talk and isn't interested in any advice, assistance or suggestions.

    Reminds me of kids in college who wrote 30-page papers for their philosophy classes and didn't understand why the professor gave them failing grades.  30 pages of gibberish is still gibberish.  Just because you can ramble on for pages and pages, doesn't mean you are saying anything profound.

     

    I save my sympathy for people here at CB who are trying hard to get treatment and try to be as healthy as they can.

     

    olga

     

     

    I HAVE CLEARLY DISCUSSED SOMETHING VITAL AND IMPORTANT IN MY PREVIOUS POST!!!  I COULD CARE LESS IF YOU FUCKING DIE!!!  YOU JUST BELITTLE AND DISREGARD THAT AND OTHER POSTS OF MINE AS UNIMPORTANT GIBBERISH/NONSENSE!!!

     

    I HAVE ALSO CLEARLY STATED MULTIPLE TIMES THAT I AM ALREADY DOING EVERYTHING I CAN TO HELP ME RECOVER FROM THIS ANHEDONIA!!! DO I NEED TO MAKE YOU GO THROUGH AN AGONIZING TORMENT AND BEG FOR MERCY IN ORDER TO GET IT THROUGH YOUR FUCKING SKULL???


  14. Now putting everything else I've said aside since I have gotten all of that out of the way, we can now focus on non-blog material for me to now discuss in this topic.

     

    In the event that this anhedonia doesn't seem to recover, then me choosing to end my life would make me the better person.  Me choosing to live on in this life of mockery and insult would make me and my life inferior even if I were to live for others.  This is because no one should expect me to live on for others and their lives without a personal life of my own to enjoy.  I have just as much value as anyone else which gives me the right to think this way as I said before and to have focus and to want to live for my own self as well.  Me living on for others is not a personal life of my own because my own personal life for me comes from having pleasure in my life as I said before.

     

    If there is anything great at all that has come from this anhedonia/depression, then it would be from realizing just how inferior and worthless it makes me and my life.  But if it weren't for this anhedonia/depression, then I would of never realized that I should just end my life.  I would of never made this great decision that would of made me the greater person in life.  As a matter of fact, I should feel excited to end my life (if I had my ability to experience pleasure to feel excited).

     

    But as for now, I am not going to decide to end my life just yet.  I am still trying ways to help me recover from this.  I am going to try a medication known as Parnate sometime eventually when I can get it.

     

    To conclude this post, I would like to say that my level of being suicidal comes from my level of anhedonia/depression.  If I have half pleasure, then I would be half suicidal.  But if I have my full normal pleasure back to me in life, then I won't be suicidal at all.


  15. So you can choose base her worth on behavior other than the pleasure she takes in life, but that doesn't count in your case?

     

    It's easy to distance yourself from help when you over-intellectualize. You are not a unique human being because you suffer anhedonia, and your not making any effort to get well is not unique to you either.

     

    You say you wanted sympathy and compassion, but you don't value it, remember? So what is the point of empathizing with you?

     

    Oh, and that last post? TL;DR When you post on CBs, you have to realize people are on medications and have illnesses that make long paragraphs and never-ending posts difficult to read.

     

    This might fit better in your blog.

     

    Because who I am as a person is separate from my values and beliefs.  In other words, just because I say that pleasure is the only good thing in life and that nothing else is good in my life (which is something I believe), this does not mean that I have no value towards empathy.  I still have full empathy and value towards my family and other good people just as much value as I would have towards myself.  Therefore, since I am not some psychopath who wishes to harm anyone innocent, then you would have no right to have very little to no empathy towards me.  It would also go against your own personal values to have very little to no empathy towards someone like me who is innocent and compassionate.  

     

    For example, if an innocent and compassionate person who was suffering from depression/anhedonia and all he/she wanted to do was just to talk out his/her problems for others to listen, would you then make this person feel worse by scorning and feeling agitated with him/her and belittling him/her and his/her situation through your scorn and lack of empathy?  Especially if his/her situation (issue) was that he/she believed that he/she as well as everyone else who suffers from depression/anhedonia were inferior.  You would have no right to scorn and feel agitated with him/her and his/her beliefs since he/she is still an innocent and compassionate person his/herself who has not had scorn towards you.  He/she was just simply sharing his/her values and beliefs for others to listen and sympathize with.  He/she has every right to speak his/her mind since they are his/her personal values and beliefs he/she wishes others would just listen and sympathize with and you would also have no right to be offended by them and to have scorn towards this person.

     

    I have also clearly stated that I am already seeking help in getting better which is why I have a therapist in the first place and is the reason why I am also doing everything else I can to get better.  The reason why I am talking here on these forums is just simply for other people to listen and sympathize as I said before.  I am already well aware of any suggestions others could make such as what medication I might need, etc.  So I do not need any suggestions.  I also do not need any advice either in how to think or how to change my thinking since these are my true values and beliefs I will never change and it would be offensive and demeaning for others to try and change them.  I also never said I was anyone unique.  I am well aware that there are many people who suffer from anhedonia and depression like me.

     

    Finally, as for a blog, there is hardly anyone who comes in and posts responses in blogs.  There are only very few responses in blogs.  Therefore, if someone is depressed and/or has other mental health issues and he/she just really wishes for others to listen, give their responses, sympathize, etc., then he/she has every right to instead go to the forums and post.


  16. First of all, Rocky Balboa was a character, not an actor. Secondly, I am going to stop responding to you because you are so stuck in dysfunctional thinking that you sound like a broken record. Want to think that way, then good luck to you. But what do you expect us to do here on a peer support site when you shoot down every suggestion and continue to say the same thing over and over?

     

    All I was wanting was for people to listen and sympathize with me like a fully compassionate and respectful person would.  My family and the therapist I am seeing listen to me, have full respect, and have full compassion towards me.  They don't scorn, feel irritated, or agitated at all when I talk and present everything I'm saying in my writing to them (even though it is repetitious).  Therefore, since they do not scorn upon me and have full compassion and respect towards me, then what gives you the right here to scorn upon me?  If you scorn and feel agitated with me like you are doing now, then that means you are not a fully compassionate and fully respectful person like my family and therapist.  You might very well have some level of respect and compassion towards me and my situation.  But as long as you continue to scorn and feel agitated, then you are not a fully compassionate and fully respectful person.  Sometimes, compassion and respect does come from telling other people to get off their rears and do something to help themselves.  However, I am already trying to do all I can to help myself and I am just talking here in the meantime for other people to sympathize and listen to me.  Therefore, your scorning and such only serves to make you a less compassionate and less respectful person since it is all just aimed towards my values, beliefs, etc. and not in trying to help me at all.


  17. I never said that it's not important to live for ourselves. You are the one using the terms "good," "bad," "inferior," etc. which most people understand to relate to other people or other things. In fact, the word "inferior" directly relates to someone else since we cannot be inferior to ourselves. Also, there is no scientific concept of "good" or "bad." Those are values attributed to things by people. I guarantee you that no scientist speaking as a scientist will use the term good or bad. I challenge you to prove your thesis by providing me any evidence that "good" and "bad" are scientific concepts. Arguments are not evidence.

     

    You are not the only one who suffers from anhedonia. My depression primarily manifests itself as anhedonia and apathy. You want to say that I am inferior because of it? I find that offensive.

     

    You are so set in your worldview, but how is that working for you? It seems to me that it is causing you to suffer even more. This is why I say you need to talk this over with a professional. You need to challenge these thoughts. You will never overcome your anhedonia unless you change your thinking.

     

    Actually, my anhedonia isn't caused or even perpetuated by my thinking at all.  It was caused by that depressive episode I had in the past.  This depression caused a malfunction in my brain (the malfunctioning of the pleasure center and other areas) which has resulted in this anhedonia.  So no amount of me changing my thinking is going to help it at all.  Nor is my thinking preventing me from taking the necessary actions to try and help me recover from this anhedonia.

     

    Now there is a quote by a famous movie actor known as Rocky Balboa who says:
     
    “Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!” 
     
    First off, before I give my personal opinion on that quote, I would like to say that Rocky Balboa is a great person and this quote is great and inspring to many people around the world.  However, I am the exception.  All good people deserve to have the full amount of the good and greatest things in their lives.  Especially if it's something that defines their very human value and lives.  So even though Rocky's quote demeans the good value towards living a happy perfect life and redirecting that good value towards accepting your problems and being tough and moving forward in life, it is a great and inspiring message to those people who are able to find other things in life to be of good and greater value than living some perfectly happy fantasy life who can fully compensate the loss of good value towards living a perfect happy life with other good values instead.  However, as for people like me who only find the one and only good and greatest value in living such a perfect happy life and that me living such a life is the only thing that defines me as a good and great human being, then this message would be demeaning and insulting towards people such as me (not that I have any scorn towards Rocky Balboa because I don't.  He is still a great person who helps others).  So you can see why it is only insulting and a mockery to me for people to tell me that there are good and greater things in my own personal life besides my pleasure that I can live for and that I should accept my anhedonia and move on in life.  This is the one and only good and greatest value people such as me have and it would, therefore, be cruel and demeaning to belittle it by telling people such as me to just stop feeling sorry for myself, just accept and move on, that we all have problems we must deal with and that I should also just deal with my problems, etc.  It would also be a mockery and an insult for people to tell me to change my values and beliefs (my thinking and attitude) just as it would be a mockery and an insult to you if I told you to change your values and beliefs.

  18.  

    My good and bad value as a human being is solely based on the level of pleasure (good value) I have in life while my bad value is solely based on the level of suffering I have in my life.  

     

    I wholly and categorically reject that premise. I really think you need to work on your worldview with a therapist because it is seriously skewed. I don't know how you will recover without challenging this type of thinking.

     

    The fact is that most people view good/bad as objective properties or at least objective relative to a particular society's norms. You want to make good/bad entirely subjective and relative to you alone. Well, you can do that but you will get caught up in a depressive cycle where you think you are bad and feel even worse leading you to conclude once again that you are bad. In my opinion, that is a pathological way of thinking and you really need to address this with a professional.

     

    A person's base value derives from their being a unique human being unlike anyone else in the world either in the past or the present or in the future, a one of a kind. If you really think about this, it is a tremendous value and any other value just adds onto this.

     

     

    Now, first off, we are of just as much value to ourselves as we are to each other.  We have every right to live for ourselves just as much as we would for other good people.  Therefore, for me to shift focus away from my absence of pleasure, to accept my absence of pleasure, and to just move on in life, then this would be demeaning of my own personal value since I would have less focus on myself and more focus on other people and other things in life.  People who tell me to just accept and move on and to focus on other people and other things would be no different than me saying to these people for them to stop focusing on themselves, living for themselves, and have all the attention focused on me.  So as you can see here, it would be selfish of those people to tell me so and it would be selfish of me to tell them so.  Therefore, having an equal value towards yourself and others is the right thing to do here.  Which means that I have every right to want to have my own personal good life of pleasure back.  If I can't get that, then I have every right to end my life since I have every right to have focus on myself.  Me living for others without my pleasure is not what I define as my own personal life since my own personal life would just be me living for myself and finding things to experience pleasure from in my own life.

     

    Now please bear with me as I explain a lot more things here.  I explain how my pleasure really is the only good thing to me in my life and that everything else in life is only good and bad in a neutral sense which means that they are really not good or bad at all.  They are only good and bad in a fake (neutral) sense while the real version of good and bad comes from our pleasure and suffering.  Also, I may appear to be targeting the general audience, but it is all my own personal values and beliefs targeted towards myself instead:

     

    Therefore, I would like to begin by saying that since our conscious is who we are, then to lose a part of your conscious would make you a lesser inferior person.  Therefore, since depression and anhedonia shut down pleasure as well as other conscious experiences, then that would make me a lesser inferior person.  Also, if there was no such thing as pleasure and suffering and all human beings never had any pleasure and suffering, then value judgements such as good and bad would never exist.  This is because how we perceive something as good or bad is all a result of our pleasure and suffering.  Value judgements such as good and bad are derived from our pleasure and suffering.  These value judgements are actually not good or bad at all and it is only our own pleasure and suffering that is good and bad and it is only our own pleasure and suffering that defines us as human beings and our lives as being either good or bad.  This is because pleasure and suffering are the only things that encourage and discourage our survival.  Our thoughts and personal created meanings are nothing more than the functioning of our brains used for problem solving and analysis and are not our encouraged or discouraged survival.  Rather, our value judgments of good and bad refer to what is truly good and bad which would be our pleasure and suffering.  If you never had any pleasure or suffering in your life and you were to witness someone else having pleasure or suffering, then you would not be able to perceive their pleasure or suffering as being good or bad.  Someone might be able to tell you that their pleasure and suffering are good and bad and you might very well acknowledge it as such.  But acknowledging something as good or bad is different than perceiving it as good or bad.  
     
    Acknowledging something as being good or bad just comes from simply saying thoughts to yourself such as that "Oh, this is something good or bad, but whatever."  But perceiving something as being good or bad is when you actually truly recognize that thing as being good or bad.  The only way you can perceive the pleasure or suffering of others as being good or bad is if you were to have pleasure or suffering in your own life.  
     
    Also, what goes on in the brain is that our pleasure and suffering which feel good and bad to us, they create emotional memories that make us recognize certain events and things as being good or bad.  I will bring up my example here again which is that if you were to experience pleasure from witnessing someone else experiencing pleasure, then this is the only way you would actually recognize this other person experiencing pleasure as being something good since your own pleasure has created an emotional memory of this experience you had.  Therefore, if it weren't for your pleasure, then you would not recognize this other person's pleasure as being something good which means that it was only your own pleasure that makes you and your lives good and nothing else and it is only your own pleasure that defines any good meanings you have in life.  Without your pleasure, then nothing is good about you and your life and that would even include the emotional memories alone by themselves.  If you had no pleasure and just had emotional memories of something being good in your life, then these emotional memories are nothing more than just memories and thoughts telling you that something is good in life when, in reality, these are nothing more than just memories and thoughts and that it is only your own pleasure that is good.  The fact is, the only way you were able to recognize things as being good in your life was because you experienced pleasure and that pleasure felt good to you.  
     
    Therefore, it's the fact that pleasure feels good which makes it the only good thing in your life.  All our emotional memories themselves are nothing more than just memories (references) to the very thing that was the one and only truly good thing in our lives which would be our pleasure.  This whole concept also applies to bad in that only our suffering is bad since it feels bad.  Therefore, since pleasure and suffering feel good and bad, then that means pleasure and suffering are the only good and bad things in life.  Since pleasure and suffering are a scientific property which would be the combined functioning of all the atoms and particles in our brains that give us pleasure and suffering, then that means good and bad are also these scientific properties which would be the functioning of the atoms and particles in our minds that give us pleasure and suffering.  This is because our pleasure and suffering are the only true good and bad things.
     
    Now some might try to refute me here by saying something such as that how we obtain pleasure in the first place comes from perceiving something as being good and that if what I'm saying is true in that pleasure is the only thing that allows us to perceive good, then this would mean that we would never have pleasure in the first place since we cannot obtain pleasure in the first place without recognizing something as being good since it is our perceptions of something being good in life that sends a pleasurable emotional signal to our brains which allows us to experience pleasure.  However, that version of good that comes from our thoughts and such alone is not truly good at all and is only good in a neutral sense while our pleasure is still the only truly good thing.  I am now going to explain how this is:
     
    If I were to take one of the functions of our brains such as the functioning of our brains that allows us to think, then we could call this the main function.  All our different thoughts we would then call the sub-functions.  Same thing for pleasure in that pleasure would be the main function here while all our different feelings of pleasure would all be the sub-functions.  Now if we were to take just one sub-function of our pleasure such as a feeling of love, then this feeling obviously feels good.  Therefore, all other feelings of pleasure feel good as well since all the sub-functions (all our different feelings of pleasure), they all adhere to the main function in that if one sub-function feels good, then we can immediately conclude that the main function (which would be all other sub-functions), that this main function also feels good.  So, in short, if one feeling of pleasure feels good, then that means all other feelings of pleasure feel good as well.  Now if we were to take one of the sub-functions of our thinking (such as the word "the"), then if you were to say that word in your mind, that experience would be nothing more than a neutral experience to you and would be neutral to you in which the word "the" is nothing more than just a word to you.  Therefore, all other thoughts (all other words, sounds, images, etc.), they are all neutral as well and are nothing truly good or bad at all and are nothing more than just words, sounds, images, etc.  If you were to have no knowledge or intelligence and you were to then think of the word 'good' in your mind, then that word would be nothing more than just a word to you (it would be nothing more than a thought).  And this would hold true for all other words you have thought up in your mind associated with that word 'good' if you did have knowledge and intelligence to do so.  In other words, if you have thought up the phrase in your mind that "Helping others is good," then the word "helping" is neutral, the word "others" is neutral, the word "is" is neutral, and, of course, the word "good" is neutral as I've just said.  Therefore, this entire personal meaning you have created in your life (this entire phrase of "Helping others is good"), then that phrase itself is neutral and is nothing more than a neutral experience as well.  
     
    Therefore, all our own personal created meanings in life including everything else in life are all neutral (neither good or bad) while only our own pleasure and suffering are good and bad and define us and our lives as being good or bad.  Just like how if one of the sub-functions of our pleasure feels good which makes the main function itself as feeling good, then this also holds true in terms of our thoughts in that if just one thought is neutral, then all the rest are neutral as well.  Even us recognizing the phrase "Helping others is good" as having meaning to us and as being something good, even our own recognizing of that quoted message as having meaning and being something good is neutral as well.  Any other created good meanings we have towards that quoted message or towards anything else in life are all neutral as well.  All our created meanings of good and bad are only good and bad in a neutral sense.  They are good and bad in the sense that they are just simply the words (thoughts) good and bad.  But they are all neutral since they are nothing more than just simply different words, sounds, images, etc. and are nothing more than neutral experiences.  So you might be asking that if our own created meanings of good and bad are both good and bad as well as neutral, then would that make them good or bad, or would it make them neutral?  The answer to that would be that they are not truly good or bad at all.  They are all good and bad only in a fake (neutral) sense as I've just said before.  They are just simply references to the things that are truly good and bad which would be our pleasure and suffering.
     
    Also, what I mean by neutral is not the same thing as meaningless.  Neutral and meaningless are two different things here.  If, for example, you had no knowledge and intelligence and just thought up the word 'good' in your mind, then that word would be meaningless to you since you do not have the necessary knowledge and intelligence to attribute any meanings to that word.  However, that is not the same thing as that word being neutral.  What I mean by neutral is that when words, sounds, and images are just simply nothing more than just words, sounds, and images even when they do have meaning to you and that even the meanings themselves we have created for those words, sounds, and images are nothing more than just different words, sounds, and images themselves as well.  And that entire phrases and entire personal created meanings we have are all nothing more than phrases and personal created meanings.  So this is what I mean by neutral in that all our personal created meanings in life do not make us or our lives anything good or greater since they are just nothing more than just thoughts and neutral experiences.  Only our pleasure is what allows us to experience the beauty of this universe.  As for people who tell me things such as that I can still experience the beauty of this universe through just my thoughts alone and that I can still live a good and beautiful life through just my thoughts and actions alone, these people would obviously be false.  I ask you, without my pleasure and if I were to then just sit there and think to myself "Wow, what a beautiful universe and life this is," then what the hell is that?  It's nothing more than just a neutral and dead lifeless thought and experience.  Pleasure is the only experience that gives us good life and good value as human beings and is the only good experience we can have in life.  Even our own actions such as helping others without our pleasure are nothing more than neutral actions and all our good values (thoughts) towards those said actions are neutral as well.  Some might tell me that the only reason why all my personal created meanings in life are all neutral to me is only because of the fact that I am attributing a neutral value to them by saying that they are all neutral and nothing more than just different sounds, images, etc.  But this would be false.  All our thoughts and personal created meanings being neutral has nothing to do with any neutral values we attribute to them.  They are all neutral in of themselves and are nothing more than phrases and different words, sounds, and images in of themselves while pleasure and suffering are the only truly good and bad things in life.
     
    Now there is a difference between our personal created meanings being words and phrases in our minds that do have profound and good meaning to us as opposed to the conscious experience of those meanings.  What I mean by this is that some people might say that feelings of pleasure are nothing more than the functioning of atoms, chemicals, and particles in our brains and that they are nothing special for this very reason.  So if we were to look at pleasure from that perspective alone, then these people would be right in saying that it is nothing special.  However, as for the conscious experience of pleasure, that is a very profound experience for many people including myself and is the most good and greatest thing in the world for people like me.  Therefore, this would mean that pleasure, in terms of a conscious experience, is good since it always feels good.  For you to say that pleasure isn't all that great and important simply because it is just a bunch of atoms, particles, and chemicals would be no different than me saying that a member in your own family who is very important to you due to a profound experience you had of her, that he/she as well as this personal profound experience you had isn't all that great and important simply because it is all a bunch of atoms, particles, and chemicals.  He/she might not be all that important in terms of he/she just being the functioning of atoms and particles.  However, he/she is important because he/she has a conscious who has conscious experiences such as pain, pleasure, and love.
     
    Now as for pleasure in terms of it being nothing more than atoms, particles, and chemicals, then it would be neutral just from that perspective alone.  Therefore, even though our personal created meanings of good and bad are conscious experiences, this conscious experience is actually neutral (meaning, that they are nothing more than just simply different phrases, words, sounds, images, etc.).  This conscious experience is neutral even though this conscious experience is actually those words good and bad themselves or any other personal created good or bad meanings.  This would be because the only difference between how we perceive something as being good vs perceiving it as being bad or neutral is all based on our attitude which is neutral itself.  I am going to give an example of how our attitude is neutral.  
     
    If you say to yourself the meaningful phrase of "Helping others is good," then you can look at that 3 ways.  You could look at it as being something good in which your facial expression would present a smile and your actions would be geared towards helping others and such.  You could look at it as being neutral in which you would have a blank facial expression and won't do anything.  Or you could look at it as being something bad in which your facial expression presents a frown and you would do bad deeds and such.  But here's the thing.  The only difference between those 3 perspectives (attitudes) is that they are just simply a different series of actions and facial expressions while the different thoughts that caused those said facial expressions and actions are still nothing more than just thoughts because our actions and facial expressions are the separate combined functioning of atoms and particles than the combined functioning of atoms and particles that make up our thoughts.  Therefore, the thoughts stand alone by themselves as being nothing more than different thoughts while our facial expressions and actions stand alone as being nothing more than different facial expressions and actions.  As I said sometime before, everything in this universe is just a bunch of atoms and particles that cannot be defined by our thoughts of good and bad since they are the different combined functioning of atoms and particles that have different function and different properties than the combined atoms and particles that make up our thoughts of good and bad in our minds.  I am going to bring up what I said before so you know here as well:
     
    "Since all atoms and particles are separate from the atoms and particles of our pleasure, then to say that harming someone in order to give you pleasure makes your pleasure bad, this would be false because the combined atoms and particles of the person suffering and the combined atoms and particles of our thoughts of good and bad as well as other things do not have the same properties of the combined atoms and particles as a whole that make up our pleasure.  It would be no different than saying that, since the combined atoms and particles of a piece of metal possess a certain function and properties (which, in this case, we would call "bad"), then that also makes the combined atoms and particles of other materials the same as well (that this also makes them "bad") which is false."
     
    Therefore, our actions and facial expressions are all just the result of the functioning of atoms and particles that are nothing good or bad at all since our thoughts cannot define them as being such.  Even if those things were somehow good or bad in of themselves and even if our thoughts of good and bad could somehow define those things as being good or bad, then it would all still come back to our thoughts alone towards those actions and facial expressions which are still nothing more than just thoughts as I just said here earlier.  It all comes back to our thoughts because our minds are what define our perceptions of life.  Therefore, it doesn't matter what attitude you have towards any personal created meanings in your life.  All those meanings stand alone as just simply being nothing more than different meanings (just simply different words, sounds, phrases, images, etc.) while our attitudes are just simply nothing more than just different facial expressions and different actions.
     
    Now let's pretend that you had no pleasure, no suffering, and no ability to perform actions or to have any facial expressions whatsoever and that you were in a vegetative state 24/7.  If you were to then think to yourself the phrase "My life is good and worth living anyway," then that phrase is nothing more than just a spoken phrase in your mind.  Any other created good or bad personal meanings in your mind are also nothing more than just phrases, words, sounds, images, etc.  Again, me saying that these things are all neutral (nothing more than phrases, words, sounds, images, etc.), this has nothing to do with me attributing a neutral value to those things by saying they are nothing more than phrases, words, sounds, images, etc.  They are all nothing more than neutral phrases, words, sounds, images, etc. in of themselves.  Let me give an example of how that is.  If you attribute a neutral value to any personal created meaning in your mind, then that neutral value does not actually neutralize that meaning you have created.  In other words, the atoms and particles in your brain that have created this neutral value do not shut down the atoms and particles in your brain that have created any other personal created meanings in your mind.  Any neutral attributed values to your personal created meanings would make them neutral.  But only in the sense of them being just words, sounds, images, and phrases.  To neutralize something in terms of science would be to either shut something down or to leave it in an unenergized state.  Therefore, this does not happen which would mean that the version of neutral that just comes from our value judgments alone has no scientific truth whatsoever to it and is nothing but a thought.  What I mean here is that if you created any personal meaning in your mind and then, after attributing a neutral value to it, you then say that this personal created meaning has become neutral, then this would be false.  It's false because there is no neutralizing process going on whatsoever in terms of science (your neutral attributed values are not shutting down the atoms and particles of your other created meanings).  The true version of neutral would not only be just what I defined in this paragraph, but also in terms of comparison to pleasure being the only good thing in life (that pleasure is the scientific property 'good').  You would then say that everything besides our pleasure and suffering is all neutral when comparing those things to the only true good and bad things in life which would be our pleasure and suffering.
     
    Now when people attribute good value to any personal created meanings in their minds, they think that it somehow makes those personal created meanings something "more."  But this would be false.  Any attributed good meanings to those personal created meanings do not make them any more or less in any sense whatsoever in terms of science.  In other words,  the atoms and particles of your good meanings do not increase the function of the atoms and particles of your other personal created meanings.  This same concept in this paragraph also applies to bad in that our bad meanings cannot make our personal created meanings or anything else in life any less whatsoever.  More and less in terms of science either means more atoms and particles and/or an increase in scientific properties such as mass, energy, etc.  Actually, the functioning of the atoms and particles of any good meanings you apply to any other of your personal created meanings I think do technically cause the atoms and particles of those personal created meanings to increase in function since the atoms and particles of your attributed good meanings would gain a connection to those other atoms and particles that created those other meanings.  However, bad or neutral values that are attributed would do the same exact thing and increase the functioning of the atoms and particles of those other meanings.  So as you can see here.  We can only use the words more, less, and neutral in terms of science.  But the value judgements that people think of such as good, bad, and neutral are not scientific which would mean that they are false since everything in this universe is the scientific functioning of atoms, particles, etc. that can only be explained through science.  People think that meanings such as good make them and their lives including others something "more," that bad makes these things "less," while neutral makes those things "neutral."  But this is false as I said before.  Therefore, the value judgement version of those words good, bad, and neutral are false while the scientific version of those words are true.  The scientific version being pleasure (good), suffering (bad), and the shutting down or disabling of scientific functioning as well as the comparison of other things in life to pleasure and suffering (which we would define here as neutral).  The words "more" and "less" can also only be scientific as well since everything in this universe is scientific as I've just explained before.  Even words such as "strength" and "weakness" can only be defined in terms of science.  If a person is depressed and they then get over it, then this state of mind this person is in of having gotten over his/her depression would be a strong state of mind since how it is that this person has gotten over his/her depression would be because his/her brain has developed more neurons and stronger connections (such as more neurons and stronger connections of areas of the brain that are responsible for turning off the stress and depression responses in the brain).  But if this person had to live with his/her depression and it could never recover or fully recover like how it did with this other person, then this person would be weak in terms of science since his/her brain was unable to create the neccessary neurons and connections.
     
    Now I could easily say that pleasure does not feel good and that it instead feels pleasant.  Therefore, you might then question my claims of pleasure really being the truly good thing in life and that it instead might not be considered good at all.  Rather, that it might be considered pleasant.  However, what we define as good is a perceivable favorable outcome.  Pleasure is a perceivable favorable outcome in of itself.  It is a perceivable good in of itself that has nothing to do with our value judgments.  The version of good that comes from our thoughts and actions are nothing more than thoughts and actions as I've said before.  But the version of good that comes from our pleasure is the real version of good and that our thoughts of good are only references to this real version of good.  Pleasure is something intrinsically good just as hedonism states and it has nothing to do with our thoughts and values as I just said here.
     
    Now, actually, let me correct myself here and say that our thoughts of good and bad are the scientific properties good and bad (since our thoughts of good and bad are the combined functioning of those atoms and particles in our brains that create those thoughts).  However, they are the neutral scientific properties good and bad while the scientific properties good and bad that come from our pleasure and suffering are the actual version of good and bad (which would be the version that many people refer to when saying good and bad which would be the version that really does make them and their lives truly good or bad and is not the neutral version of good and bad).  I am going to walk you through an example of how all our thoughts are neutral.  For example, go ahead and say a word in your mind that is nothing more than just a word to you (which would obviously be a thought).  Maybe you can say a number in your mind such as the number 16 which would be nothing more than just a number to you that is neither good or bad.  Therefore, all other thoughts we have in life are all the same in that sense as well since they are also nothing more than neutral sounds, images, numbers, words, etc. that cannot make us or our lives anything actually good without our pleasure and it's only our own pleasure that makes us and our lives anything good.  You might be thinking something such as that the only reason why that number you created in your mind in that given example was neutral was only because of the fact that you have attributed a neutral value to it.  But this would be false.  There was no attributed value whatsoever to it.  
     
    Therefore, the only reason why it was neutral to you was because of the fact that you were able to see that number for what it really was.  And that would be the fact that it was nothing more than just a number.  You were not blinded by any other attributed meanings of good and bad to fool yourself into thinking that number was something good or bad.  You have first said that number to yourself in your mind and at the time it was neither neutral and neither good or bad (it was nothing more than just a number to you).  Then, from there, based on that experience, you have then concluded that it was neutral.  This neutral value judgement you have given is not false at all and doesn't make anything I'm saying false.  This would be because, when we say something is neutral (such as our thoughts and personal created meanings in life being neutral), then what we are saying here is that these thoughts are nothing more than just thoughts.  That they are nothing more than words, sounds, images, etc.  So this would be true.  Therefore, this also applies to all other thoughts and personal created meanings we have in life as well since they are also nothing more than just neutral sounds, words, images, etc.  Even our own thoughts of good and bad are nothing more than just neutral sounds, words, images, etc. just like that neutral number you created in your mind in that given example.  Even our own attributed meanings of good and bad to our thoughts of good and bad are all neutral as well.  So people are only fooling themselves into thinking that they and their lives are still somehow good without their pleasure.  They are fooled by thoughts of good and bad and other created meanings that are perceived as good or bad when, in reality, all these thoughts and created meanings are all neutral.
     
     But even now as I am speaking here and saying that number you created in your mind was neutral (including me saying that all our thoughts are neutral), I am attributing a neutral value to them.  So you might then be thinking something such as that number and all thoughts and personal created meanings we have in life aren't neutral at all since it was just my attributed neutral value to that number and all other thoughts and was all just my own personal opinion.  But this would be false.  Here, again, I will say that what I mean by neutral is that when thoughts are nothing more than just thoughts here (that they are no different than that number you created in your mind in that given example which was nothing more than just a number).  So what I'm saying is true.  Our thoughts are only different in the sense that they are different words, sounds, images, etc. and that they make us perform different actions.  But that is it.  They are all still neutral.  They are simply the different activity of the functioning of our brains that come up with these different thoughts.  It would be no different than the different activity of the parts of our brain that make us blink and breathe in different ways and nothing more.  
     
    Any perceived logical fallacies in my argument here might hold true for other things in life, but not for what I'm saying here. You might say something such as that "Your logic is false and what you are saying is that you can create an 'ooooh' vowel sound when you sing. Therefore all words you sing have 'oooooh' vowel sounds" in order to try and disprove my argument here. But the fact is that all things in life besides pleasure, pain, and despair are nothing but atoms and particles that are neutral (neither good or bad). But it is only pleasure, pain, and despair in of themselves that are the only good and bad things despite the fact that these things are also the functioning of atoms and particles.
     
    Finally, the reason why I state that pleasure is the only good thing is because of the fact that it always feels good in of itself no matter what and no matter what value we attribute to it.  Even if we had no knowledge, thoughts, or intelligence whatsoever, and we were to then experience pleasure, our pleasure would still feel good to us anyway.  So good is a scientific property which would be our pleasure which would be the combined functioning of the atoms and particles in our brains that give us pleasure as I've stated before and am also stating here to make myself absolutely clear.  Same concept applies for bad since pain and despair always feel bad in of themselves no matter what as well. 

  19. I have developed severe chronic anhedonia as a result of depression.  It has lasted for over 7 months, still hasn't gotten any better, and there are never any brief moments of pleasure.  My feelings of pleasure (such as love, joy, motivation, etc.) are the most important things about me as a person.  They are far more important than my attitude, actions, personality, etc.  As a matter of fact, my attitude, actions, and personality do not matter at all without my pleasure and are neutral (neither good or bad).  My good and bad value as a human being is solely based on the level of pleasure (good value) I have in life while my bad value is solely based on the level of suffering I have in my life.  In other words, if I suffer alot from anhedonia/depression and help many people out around the world, then even that wouldn't make me a good person at all and my life would still be nothing good at all.  I would still be a bad, weak, and inferior person regardless of the fact that depression and anhedonia are mental illnesses and that they are not choices in which people can snap themselves out of it.  I would have helped others and made their lives good.  But without my own pleasure in life, then my own personal life is nothing good at all.  My thoughts, actions, and everything else in life are nothing more than just sounds, words, images, phrases, gestures, etc. without my pleasure. 

     

    For example, if I think of a good thought in my mind (such as a profound loving thought towards my family) without my pleasure, then that good thought is nothing more than just a thought.  There is no sense of empowerment, "high," or any profound experience whatsoever from any of those thoughts since they are nothing more than just thoughts.  They may make us do certain actions and such as well as other important things, but that is it.  So all my thoughts and personal created meanings in life including my attitude and actions are nothing profound or anything good since they are all neutral experiences without my pleasure.  It has nothing to do with me having a bad attitude and attributing a neutral value to those things that is making them neutral.  They are all actually neutral in of themselves and it has nothing to do with me attributing a neutral value judgment to them since they are all neutral experiences as I've said before.  If I were to create a very profound good meaning (thought) in my mind, then the meaning itself would be something very good and profound (but only in the sense that they are nothing more than just words, sounds, images, phrases, etc.).  However, the conscious experience of that meaning is a neutral (neither good or bad) experience and it is only my conscious experience of pleasure that is good while it is only my conscious experience of suffering that is bad.

     

    Therefore, who I am as a person and what my actions are do not matter at all.  As long as I have my full pleasure back to me in life, then that is all that matters to me.  Growing as a person and becoming more of an empathetic, compassionate, understanding, intelligent, insightful, creative, etc. person through my suffering does not matter at all to me either without my pleasure and I could care less about growing as a person or who I am for that matter.  As long as I am happy (have my full pleasure in life), then that is all that matters to me and that is the one and only thing that defines me and my life as being good.  The one and only greatest life there is and is the one and only life that matters to me and nothing else would be a life of as much pleasure and as little suffering as possible.  If I can't get that life, then I would end my life since I would be living a life that mocks and insults me and the one and only greatest life I wanted to live.  Therefore, I must have my life back in which I had a normal full amount of pleasure before.  If I can't get that life, then I would end my life.

     

    In conclusion, I would like to say something very important here which is that I am absolutely convinced that my pleasure is the only thing that makes me good and my life good while my suffering is the only thing that makes me bad and my life bad.  There is nothing anyone else here can tell me that can make me change my mind on this.  These are my own personal values and beliefs.  But the reason why I came here and talked about it anyway is simply because I want others here to listen, relate, and sympathize with me and my described situation.


  20.  

     

    Asking for people to cite sources for their claims of fact is completely unrelated to one's desire or ability to be a compassionate individual.

     

    It is simply seeking to make sure we are putting out factual information for people who read the boards here.

     

    Your suffering is not incidental.

     

    Many people here suffer with the same symptoms and seek solutions. 

     

    Your questions are not unreasonable. Addressing or answering your questions to try to clarify your thinking does not negate your suffering.

     

    You would be right in saying that others asking these questions does not make them less compassionate people.  However, the tonality in which these people ask these questions is what determines whether they are fully compassionate people or not.

     

    Now what do you mean by saying that my suffering is not incidental?  Do you mean that my anhedonia just happened spontaneously without any stressful event in my life that caused it to happen?  If that is what you are saying, then this would be false.  I had a severe panic disorder in the past and immediately when I felt that this panic disorder might last my entire life and that it could get very severe to the point of hospitalization, that caused me severe chronic depression at the same time as well.  Immediately when I experienced this severe chronic depression, the panic from this panic disorder has completely shut down and my ability to experience pleasure was also a bit shut down as well.  However, when this severe chronic depression went away completely, that is when my ability to experience pleasure also completely shut down with my panic as well.  Now both my panic and pleasure are completely shut down.  Therefore, that severe chronic depression I had in the past was the cause of this anhedonia.

     

    However, I am thinking that if I didn't have this panic disorder at all and that I just had the severe chronic depression alone, then I wouldn't have this anhedonia at all.  I am thinking this because I never had anhedonia in my entire life and I have had many moments of severe and chronic depression in my life and they have never caused anhedonia to any given degree either.  Therefore, that panic disorder being there must of had something to do with my anhedonia happening.  Perhaps having two chronic stress responses happening at once is never a good thing and can disrupt one another and cause anhedonia as a result (maybe they can only disrupt one another when one of these stress responses is severe enough and also when these two stress responses are both at the proper level of severity that would be necessary to cause anhedonia).  Therefore, since I had a chronic panic disorder in the past and since I then had chronic depression that was severe at that same time, this chronic depression was severe enough to disrupt the panic stress response in my brain which resulted in an abnormal physiological change in my brain (which would be the anhedonia).

     

    Now why is it that I am making all of these claims with no scientific evidence to back them up?  It would be because I am trying to find out what the problem is and what caused my anhedonia so that I can properly address it.  This claim right here in my post is something I came up with entirely on my own.  However, the claim in my opening post was something made by another user on another forum who suffered from anhedonia and tried to help many others who also suffered from anhedonia:

     

    http://www.depressionforums.org/forums/topic/83323-answers-to-curing-anhedonianumbnessapathy-no-1/ You make a bleepload of assumptions. And correlation is not the same thing as causation. As someone who currently is experiencing anhedonia, I feel for you. But you should probably step back and stop trying to over-analyze everything. It is entirely possible for anhedonia to come out of nowhere, or at least out of another flavor of depression. You are searching for a quick and easy fix where one might not be forthcoming. Rather than lecturing us about your theories of the origin of your anhedonia, why don't you describe what you feel (or don't), why it sucks so much, and which treatment(s) you found successful or not? This is a support site, not a platform to launch academic ambitions or wax on philosophically about what causes this, that, or the other. I also suggest you also shorten your replies. A lot of people here will have their eyes glaze over when they see a long post, especially if it doesn't conform to the nature of the site.

     

     

    I will go ahead and now describe my anhedonia in terms of me personally.  I have lost all feelings of pleasure and I don't have a single one.  I am a hedonist and all I ask for is just one single feeling of pleasure I can live by right now and to have as a part of my daily life.  But I don't even get a single one (not even for a brief few seconds).  I am on Prozac, olanzipine, and clonapin and none of these medications have eased up this anhedonia at all.


  21. Asking for people to cite sources for their claims of fact is completely unrelated to one's desire or ability to be a compassionate individual.

     

    It is simply seeking to make sure we are putting out factual information for people who read the boards here.

     

    Your suffering is not incidental.

     

    Many people here suffer with the same symptoms and seek solutions. 

     

    Your questions are not unreasonable. Addressing or answering your questions to try to clarify your thinking does not negate your suffering.

     

    You would be right in saying that others asking these questions does not make them less compassionate people.  However, the tonality in which these people ask these questions is what determines whether they are fully compassionate people or not.

     

    Now what do you mean by saying that my suffering is not incidental?  Do you mean that my anhedonia just happened spontaneously without any stressful event in my life that caused it to happen?  If that is what you are saying, then this would be false.  I had a severe panic disorder in the past and immediately when I felt that this panic disorder might last my entire life and that it could get very severe to the point of hospitalization, that caused me severe chronic depression at the same time as well.  Immediately when I experienced this severe chronic depression, the panic from this panic disorder has completely shut down and my ability to experience pleasure was also a bit shut down as well.  However, when this severe chronic depression went away completely, that is when my ability to experience pleasure also completely shut down with my panic as well.  Now both my panic and pleasure are completely shut down.  Therefore, that severe chronic depression I had in the past was the cause of this anhedonia.

     

    However, I am thinking that if I didn't have this panic disorder at all and that I just had the severe chronic depression alone, then I wouldn't have this anhedonia at all.  I am thinking this because I never had anhedonia in my entire life and I have had many moments of severe and chronic depression in my life and they have never caused anhedonia to any given degree either.  Therefore, that panic disorder being there must of had something to do with my anhedonia happening.  Perhaps having two chronic stress responses happening at once is never a good thing and can disrupt one another and cause anhedonia as a result (maybe they can only disrupt one another when one of these stress responses is severe enough and also when these two stress responses are both at the proper level of severity that would be necessary to cause anhedonia).  Therefore, since I had a chronic panic disorder in the past and since I then had chronic depression that was severe at that same time, this chronic depression was severe enough to disrupt the panic stress response in my brain which resulted in an abnormal physiological change in my brain (which would be the anhedonia).

     

    Now why is it that I am making all of these claims with no scientific evidence to back them up?  It would be because I am trying to find out what the problem is and what caused my anhedonia so that I can properly address it.  This claim right here in my post is something I came up with entirely on my own.  However, the claim in my opening post was something made by another user on another forum who suffered from anhedonia and tried to help many others who also suffered from anhedonia:

     

    http://www.depressionforums.org/forums/topic/83323-answers-to-curing-anhedonianumbnessapathy-no-1/


  22. A lot of people on this site, myself included, suffer from anhedonia. It is a symptom not a disease. It may be temporary and relent when the underlying condition is treated effectively, and it can come in ebbs and flows throughout life. If it were so simple as getting yourself "shot up" on meds then a lot of us here would not be suffering from it. A lot of us here have received shots of tranquilizers or APs and still suffer from anhedonia.

     

    I agree with everyone else that you need to stop putting forth your ideas as though they were facts. If you want to convince us that you are right then back them up by science. Also, you will get plenty of compassion if you come here and talk about your feelings and present us with a practical real-time problem rather than an academic discussion.

     

    In that case, I have presented my previous post which talks about my personal issue.  Also, even though it is highly likely that I am wrong that a shot and/or a tranquilizer gun would alleviate this anhedonia, I think it would be worth a try anyway since I have nothing to lose (I literally have nothing to lose since everything else in life without my pleasure is all nothing and neutral to me anyway).


  23. If you want compassion, talk about your feelings.

    Having anhedonia sucks.

    How about you tell us about how it sucks for you?

    If you want to talk about neuroscience, talk about neuroscience.

     

    Thanks for your full respect and full compassion.  I am a hedonist (which means that I have a belief that states that pleasure and suffering are the only true good and bad things in life and are the only things that determine the amount of good and bad value we as human beings have and in our lives while everything else in life besides our pleasure and suffering is neither good or bad and are only good and bad in a neutral sense which means they are not truly good or bad things at all).  Therefore, since I have lost all my pleasure and there are never any brief moments of pleasure whatsoever, then me and my life have no good value whatsoever regardless of how much I help others and do great things in my life anyway without my pleasure.  My hedonistic belief is something that will never change since my personal and profound meaningful experience of pleasure I had in the past when I had my full pleasure back then vehemently says to me that my pleasure is the only thing in life that defines the amount of good value me and my life have.  My personal experience of depression and anhedonia also vehemently make pleasure that much more important for me in life.  Also, even though I can live for others and their pleasure, we are only in our own minds and cannot experience the pleasure of others.  Therefore, the pleasure and suffering of others from my own perspective is nothing more than a neutral thought that is neither good or bad.  Only my own pleasure makes me and my life anything good.  However, I still have full compassion and respect towards others anyway even despite knowing the fact that there is nothing good about that without my pleasure.


  24.  

    Now how anhedonia is a stress response would be because of the fact that the ability to experience pleasure cannot just simply turn off by itself.  Another area of the brain has to become active in order to turn off the ability to experience pleasure.  This other area of the brain that has become active would be the stress response that has turned off the ability to experience pleasure.  Which is why I am wondering if shooting myself with a tranquilizer gun or getting myself shot up at the hospital would ease up or rid this anhedonia completely.

     

    You calling things a fact doesn't mean they are facts.  Produce a study explaining this fact of yours.

     

    Oh.  How do you plan on obtaining drugged darts that are intended to paralyze animals? 

     

     

    I have a severe mental illness (anhedonia) as I said before and all I was ever asking here was for a possible hope (a cure) here that just might help ease up or even possibly rid this anhedonia once and for all.  If you don't have full respect and full compassion towards my issue by not helping me out here by ignoring my vital request and instead focusing on a far less important matter such as the mere fact that I have not provided evidence for those claims I mentioned in a perhaps annoyed manner, then this would mean that you are not a fully respectful and fully compassionate person here.  This would be because you have just simply brushed off my anhedonia and have brushed off my desire to have it eased up or possibly cured right now and that you have instead deemed other things I've said to be the more important matter.  But if you have asked this in a fully respectful and fully compassionate matter, then I will have full respect and full compassion towards you in return.  But if you have asked this in a less compassionate and less respectful and perhaps annoyed manner, then I will not have any respect or compassion towards you.  Especially the tone in your last sentence I think tells me that you do not have full respect and full compassion because rather than trying to find out and tell me where I can get these drugged darts and trying to find out whether they would even work or not and presenting yourself in a fully respectful and fully compassionate manner, you instead just ask me in a sarcastic manner how I would go about obtaining them.  

     

    So which is it?  Do you have full respect and full compassion towards me or not?  (NOTE:  Any less compassionate and/or less respectful and annoyed/offended/irratated attitude you present to me here on in either through answering this very question I am now presenting and/or in any other of your posts here that address my very issue (providing that my issue is not intended to criticize and offend anyone which it is not and I am just simply asking a very important question here not only in terms of my issue, but also to see who you really are as a person here, and also because I am presenting some information regarding anhedonia), then you will be deemed by me as a person not worth my time as long as you have this less compassionate and less respectful attitude and that you do not reconcile).

     

    What I just said here in my post also applies to anyone else here.

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