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Everything posted by Spiny

  1. sometimes I feel like my sleep deprivation is a form of relapse

  2. Hi, I am still here. Glad to be here. Headed into the deep woods (literally) without internet for a couple months tho. Looking forward. Honestly I have a hard time living indoors for reasons. So I may be away again for awhile but just wanted to check in.

    1. jarn


      That sounds exciting!  

  3. So I was feeling better, and then yesterday I felt tired with the fever like I did a week ago. I really hope this is not round two, like when people feel better and then get worse.

  4. I just wanted to stop back in here having given this whole thing some more thought. The thing I'm really conscious of is how self-hateful the whole framing of "pathetic baby ego" is. It's like, of course I feel inferior to everyone and obsessed about it. My whole babyhood, childhood, and teenage years, not to mention adulthood, I wasn't good enough for the abusive people who were literally my gods. There was no respite from my parents. The entire community was just as bad or worse. No wonder something very small and ashamed in me feels threatened any time I think I might not be "the best" - being "the best", in my mother's eyes, was the only time she acted like she loved me. (As long as I wasn't "better" than her - then things went badly.) And that'd just for starters. We won't even get into the rest of them, here. I think part of what's hard is that it seems "narcissist" is bandied about on the net and elsewhere like it is the worst thing anyone can be. So that if I think some part of me is one, or an inverted one, well, I'd better hide that. Otherwise, Goodbye to Ever Being Loved, right? Except... except I'm sorry, but just no. Infants are narcissistic, and it's healthy of them. It's not bad. And my inner infant cries in the dark all the time, and was never good enough for any of Them, Then... and isn't good enough for Me, Now. Well, that's gonna change. I don't care what anyone who hates thinks about it. I'm done calling that child things like "pathetic." It's going to be a very hard habit to break, and I'll probably do it again, and I'm leaving my original title on this so people can see how my thinking moved. I have a narcissistic part inside me. It's a true story. Or, as some might call it... abused infant and child personalities. And I'm done hating on them. That part / person in me wants to be the best. That part / person thinks that's what makes them worthy of love. We need to work on this, but the first thing I'm going to do is just accept it. Be like, okay, that's how you feel! I'm not going to argue. I'm just going to listen. And I'm not going to hate. Except when I mess up. And then, I need to apologize. Those kids dealt with enough bullsh*t in their lives. I don't want a whole other lifetime of it to come from me. I can't see things getting better that way. Obviously, I don't need to act on the edicts of children. But I do need to listen, and be kinder. I hope I can lift my own shame enough to start doing that.
  5. Dealing with the mental effects of my child abuse is like trying to reverse engineer a really hard problem that didn't have to happen in the first place.

  6. Just made a mistake in Real Physical Life and actually looked for an undo button in the air around said thing. Quarantine has started to get... a little long.

  7. When people with authority over me say things like, "I don't have the luxury of turning on my phone at 9am"... cool, do you have the luxury of sleep being a good, restful, non-terrifying nightmare-ridden panic attack inducing hellhole for you? How nice for you, and kindly f*ck right off now.

    1. Spiny


      I live in an area where people think that in bed by 9, up at 4, is a moral issue, not a circadian rhythm issue. It's hard enough being a 10am - 3am person on a good day in such a world, but the superiority ableist crap coming from professors etc... over it.

  8. Eyes crossing from mixing music... that computer / not enough water headache - but, I'm not on a vent, so there's that!

  9. Thanks for this thread. As someone who's been on and off suicidal for a long time, faces addiction, and has watched way too many friends die of diseases the authorities didn't care about until it was too late (HIV anyone...) the feeling of "it's happening again..." has been real. I started writing a song about it, if I ever finished maybe I'll post somewhere.
  10. Just got an email that my school is moving all classes to online next semester. I seem to feel inordinately sad about this. Of all the things to feel sad about right now.

    1. Show previous comments  3 more
    2. Spiny


      I'm a vocalist. My classes are in piano and guitar tho, since my one of my goals going to school was to get a band together again and this time have some actual power in the songwriting process. Not that singers can't have power, but combined with gender-based biases and straight up discrimination (rampant in the music business...) I found it difficult to insert myself. So I went to music school and it cost me a bunch of money but I am more empowered and actually composing my own stuff which I always wanted.

      I do have to send recordings of my voice for recording and songwriting classes tho - augh the stress - gotta get used to it tho. It's so strange to be simultaneously the kind of exhibitionist that a lot of front people in bands are, while also having a severe, like, severe, social anxiety disorder that almost no one in my meatspace life knows the full extent of. The worst for me is right after a show. People think that because you can be on stage, you're fine talking to people off stage... really I just always want to run out the back door and hide in the dumpsters... ah... not that I've ever done that irl or anything... ah.... :)

      What kind of art do you make?

    3. echolocation


      i have read that the music industry can be quite discriminatory. i'm glad you've found a way to bolster yourself against the prejudices you face in a way that ultimately helps you get closer to your goals.

      there's something about being on a stage that somehow bypasses my social anxiety. i can speak to an audience without breaking a sweat, but once i'm done talking i don't want to talk to anyone! a speech, i can rehearse. one on one conversation is a lot easier to mess up.

      i do drawings and paintings, mostly portraits. i feel most at home working with inks and watercolours, but i mess with acrylics, coloured pencils, crayons, brush pens, and whatever else i can get my hands on. :) 

    4. Spiny


      I've read that the music industry is the third most discriminatory industry on the basis of sex and gender in the United States, probably in other places too. I'm sure racist discrimination levels aren't that great, either... I wouldn't necessarily know, but I have observed... things. Thanks for the props. Yeah, it pisses me off sometimes... the years eaten up by this, and even by school, but at least I'm on my way now. Feels like it's almost too late, but not quite.

      Totally hear you about being onstage. As a vocalist, one thing that happens after a show is that people want to touch me. It's not in a creepy way (usually), it's that they are trying to touch the Spirit, however one conceptualizes that, and a lot of people don't get that it doesn't come from me, it isn't in my body, it's... elsewhere. But they want to touch sometimes, and if it's not sexualized and weird I usually can allow it. It isn't so much triggering as draining.



      one on one conversation is a lot easier to mess up.

      Yeah... this is always a problem for me. Sometimes I wonder if I have some kind of autism. I can't tell if it's autism or trauma or both. Or a PD. Or co-current. Who knows.

      That's awesome you draw and paint! I have like 0 talent in that regard, always admire people who do. There is a lot of that where I live... it's strange, I'm basically friends with all visual artists and hardly any musicians, which is new and kinda funny to me.


  11. Hey, thanks for saying all that. I think the idea that one is supposed to be ashamed for financial assistance from the government / society is one of the most nefarious messages out there for sure. I'm going to repeat that to myself. Thank you.
  12. It's good to hear everyone's perspectives, thanks for sharing them. For me, I think part of the heartache is that I have a degree, and I was supposed to "do so much" with that degree... but what actually happened was a lot of job hopping, criminalized activity, and a couple of attempts to get some businesses off the ground which crashed and burned. Me not being economically productive is I'm fairly sure one of the reasons my family turned their backs on me, which in my opinion is ableist as all hell but it still hurts. I somehow feel like I owe society my continued misery even though I know that's ridiculous. Honestly... I'm pro-guaranteed income anyway, like for everyone below a certain income level, so I try to remember that. It's maddening, the shame. I get that it comes from society politics and the media, but sometimes it's hard to put a finger on "where is this shaming coming from," it just feels so pervasive. It can make me focus on trying to work when I really should not.
  13. Some days it's harder to try than others. Feels like my life got stolen from me. I know genetic vulnerability is a thing, but... some adults really pushed things over the edge. I'm wary of resentment and rumination - bad for me, an alcoholic - but sometimes can't seem to get out of it. I can validate the Angry One - hey, it's valid - but life is still hard. Seems to me it's pretty much a crock the way society claims to care about kids, but once one is an adult child - it can feel like, dang, they don't even pretend to care now. Sigh. K back to work from bed

    1. saintalto


      No one helped me as a child. I really needed it, and I suppose I could have gotten some help if I asked for it, but I didn’t know how to ask because it never occurred to me that what I experienced was abnormal. It was all I knew and most my friends had shitty home lives too so I didn’t have any healthy examples of family to contrast my situation with.

      As an adult I have found people are willing to help you if you seek help out, but now you have to pay for it.  

    2. Spiny


      Thanks for relating. It helps to hear the voices of others.


      It was all I knew and most my friends had shitty home lives too so I didn’t have any healthy examples of family to contrast my situation with.

      I really relate to that. In my case I wonder if I met a person who wasn't an abused child or someone who had been abused before I was 18. I think maybe one person. Honestly I think the most damaging thing was the lack of contrast. If I had had some other family to contrast my family's bullsh*t with, I would have known I wasn't delusional. I'm don't suffer from delusions, but I have trauma from literal decades of thinking I was not seeing reality. 


      As an adult I have found people are willing to help you if you seek help out, but now you have to pay for it.

      The propensity of my society to just throw away anyone without healthy-enough family privilege makes me grind my teeth every day.

      For me I will say Adult Children of Alcoholics & Family Dysfunction has helped. The primary issue in my home wasn't alcoholism although that was a thing... but the dysfunction was really real. Those groups have been the only place I've received real, deep validation in a setting with more than one other person.

      Anyway thank you for replying, and I'm so sorry it was so shitty and that you got neglected.

  14. Dang it now I wish I could edit and change the title! I'm new here sorry. Thanks for the clarification. I have to say I don't really like "benefits" either. I can't quite put my finger on why, but there's almost something... patronizing about it, maybe? Anyway yeah totally agree re: capitalism. Helped to read, thanks. EDIT - ha - figured out the edit mechanism! That is brilliant, thank you. That actually really helps.
  15. I originally put "entitlements" in the title because I think that people are entitled to enough money for housing, healthcare, some treats, etc, but see below for why I changed it. At least - I think everyone is entitled to those basic rights when it's other people I'm thinking of, and not me. I have a bachelors and half of an associates. I have the privilege of having always had a relatively quick analytical brain. And, I'm on a check, and food stamps. I feel SO incredibly guilty and ashamed about this - even though I know plenty of people in the same position, and I would never think that they don't deserve their entitlements and disability! It doesn't help that my bio family and lots of former "chosen" family look down on me for it. In my 20s, when I was using a lot of drugs and booze to cover what turned out to be a severe psychiatric problem, I think it seemed to a lot of people like I was on the "up." Then I got sober, and, well... it turned out to not be the case. Oftentimes, I'm able to talk to my self / selves and remind us that we think that everyone deserves to have their needs covered and that we think housing and healthcare, and honestly guaranteed income, should be basic rights for everyone, and that "we" are part of the "everyone." Other times, like today... I just feel like such a loser and failure. And also really scared about the future. I concoct wild ideas to get myself off benefits... and then I realize why it's a bad idea. And then I get mad, like - why should it be considered a "good" thing for me to get off my check? But then I get ashamed again. I dunno, I'm sick and not really thinking clearly. I just thought I'd ask if anyone can relate. ❤️
  16. Wow it sounds like you went through a lot! So glad you are feeling better. Thanks also for the idea about donating plasma after one feels better, that's an awesome thing to do. Glad you are on the mend.
  17. Hi confused glad you were able to order one and that it is coming soon! I hope you get some answers at least from the blood test. It sounds like you are at least feeling less sick now? I hope so. Thank you for well wishes. I'm in my room with my notebooks and guitar so I'm pretty good as far as sick goes.
  18. It's never a lot of fun to be estranged from my abusive parents and family. The only thing worse is being in contact with them, pretty much. The situation is particularly crappy when I have a health issue, like now. I didn't expect any care when I got sober, or any other time really, but now I'm clear-eyed enough to see people with safe parents who care and don't make them pay for that care later, and... I dunno, it's just hard. That's all.

    1. echolocation


      that is hard, spiny. it's really hard. having to quarantine yourself doesn't make it any easier. i hope you're able to practice some self (or selves) care right now. go gently.

    2. saintalto


      I think it’s particularly hard right now because social media and society is putting emphasis on the importance of family and supporting and getting support from loved ones during this pandemic. When you don’t have a family you appreciate, one that is toxic, it makes you feel guilty for not caring because everyone is saying that you should.  

    3. Spiny


      Thank you both for those kind and caring comments! I totally expected to just be posting into a void; it means a lot that people replied, thanks!

      echo - the "selves" care is so real, thanks for the reminder!

      santalto - I think you're totally right about this. I actually felt so guilty I wrote to my parents a couple weeks ago for the first time in YEARS (mom is a healthcare worker) to see if they were okay. They were - but after 3 days of post-contact dissociation, I wasn't! Lessons: it's OKAY to not be in touch with abusers! And all those people being like, "but they're you're parents!" ? It's like, "But I'm their kid."

      This website has helped me a lot with abusive family issues: https://theinvisiblescar.wordpress.com

      Heads up that I think the author has some kind of Christian bent, if that is an issue for anyone? But I'm not actually sure, because she seems to keep it pretty much out of her work. Anyway I have derived more self esteem in my decisions looking at it, especially the articles on going no contact and holding on to my truth.

      Thanks again, good to meet you both.

  19. Catnapper thanks very much for that link. Really glad you survived! Everyone thank you for well wishes it means a lot. I think I'm going to be fine honestly, the biggest thing I am dealing with is massive tiredness, I know others have it much worse. I'm just trying to take care of myself. Healthy wishes for everyone
  20. I thought I saw a thread that said you survived, I am very glad if this is the case / I hope it is the case! I have been reading your ECT diary and have found it very useful, thank you so much for writing and sharing your experience. I am so sorry that your treatment has been interrupted and I hope there is a way for it to continue in the not too distant, if you want that. I currently seem to be a presumed case. Today was day 1 of being quarantined in my room, obeying instructions of my doctor, as I live with 2 other humans. I just feel lucky I don't share a room with anyone; I can't even imagine what people living in hostels and shelters and just with literal roommates are doing right now. I can breathe, which is always cool. It's a bit restricted and I get winded easily. Mainly the thing is, I am just so. unbelievably. tired. I had to get off the phone with a friend earlier today because I couldn't physically hold the cellphone anymore. For context, a week and a half ago I was doing a work-in run by a pro football player. I'm not in the best shape of my life, but except for some weird physical health stuff , like general fitness-wise, I have it pretty good compared to a lot of people. Meanwhile, today, brushing my teeth was a physical challenge that felt comparable to a heavy biceps session. I'm keeping a log of the following: - temperature at least once a day, should probably be multiple time points and measured at the same time - heart rate / beats per minute - I have ordered an oximeter and if it ever gets here I will be measuring blood oxygen levels. The reason I am measuring these things is because of the following: https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/04/heres-a-lifesaving-covid-19-test-that-costs-almost-nothing/ The original article is off the New York Times and is behind a paywall (which I'm horrified by; I think COVID-19 info should be freely available) so apologies that this isn't the original link. The "hotshot doctor" described is Richard Levitan, a physician with 30 years of experience in emergency medicine, who invented an imaging system for teaching intubation, the procedure of inserting breathing tubes, and who wrote the original (paywalled) NYT article. Anywhooo, my hope is that, based on what the article describes, if I measure my heart rate and my blood oxygen I should have a pretty good idea of if I'm in trouble before I get physical symptoms that would indicate such. Since I don't have a heart monitor at home, I have opted for one on my phone. Doesn't have to be accurate, just consistent - ie, I just have to know if I go up or down and by how much. If the oximeter comes in the mail, that'll be more accurate and tell me about oxygen. I've read that there are oximeter phone apps but my phone is ancient and doesn't seem to be able to handle any of them. I'm doing okay so far, although as a plural person with a lot of trauma I'm a bit worried about not being able to physically touch my partner, which is a big coping strategy for me. Mostly I'm just beat. Whatever I've got is making me tired, plus I'm coming off two weeks of first hellAcious PMDD, and then accidental iron poisoning. (who does that even happen to who is not 3 years old.) When I called the doctor feeling crappy, it was actually because I was worried about liver failure from the iron thing. And then they were like, you get to stay in your room! And I was like, dang. Thanks for listening.
  21. Submitted a piece of writing to a group for critique. Never done that before... hope it goes well. But even if not, at least I tried. Of course that's easy to say standing on this side of time.

  22. Hi echolocation and jarn, Thanks to you both for replying. Yes it is very hard, and it is helpful to hear that other people go through something similar, even though I am sorry that any of us feel these ways. For me at least, the feelings are very unpleasant. echolocation those are all good questions. I don't know what I "have" - I think ultimately, I'm a highly sensitive person who was severely abused and there were certain results. One of those results is that when I look at typical "checklists" for BPD, they fit, and the ones that don't fit anymore are things I resist doing. What's for certain is C-PTSD, "regular" PTSD (whatever that even means...), a dissociative disorder / multiple experience, depression but not necessarily because I "have" depression, if that makes any sense, and some other stuff. I've read about "Developmental Trauma Disorder" / infant trauma at the root of some BPD and other PD stuff, and what I've read makes a lot of sense to me / feels like the "shoe fits" as it were. The biggest symptom that bothers me currently, that seems related to what everyone has said, is this thing where it's as though I lack an "objective evaluator." I realize no one is perfectly objective, obviously, but what I mean is it doesn't seem like I can see myself from the outside at all, no matter how hard I try, and the result of this is that if an outside person has a reaction to something I've done, said, created, or even indicated that they might have a reaction to information they can't know without an indication from me, such as how I feel, then my perception of what I've done or how I feel will alter depending on my perception of or information about the other person's reaction/feelings. Sometimes, some part of me knows this isn't rational - but I can't separate from the experience, which is often quite physical. Other times, my reaction to a situation like this can be extremely disoriented / disassociated, and can look borderline psychotic. Psychiatric abuse and abuse from police officers is a part of my life history, so the disoriented / psychotic thing is very scary to me because I am afraid of consequences if anyone sees. Because of this, I went from being a person with literally thousands of facebook friends who were all known to me in real life, to being an isolated shut in with (thank god) two people regularly in my life. When I say "I don't know right from wrong" to therapists, they give me the "are you a sociopath" look which I've come to recognize. Usually I can explain myself. (I also worry quite a bit that I'm a sociopath, not that it's someone's fault if they are.) But the problem of knowing right from wrong, "objectively" as I can, without being pulled by the perceptions of others, is a real life-destroying issue for me. One of the areas it shows up in is perceptions about my art, but it even manifests in an impaired ability to think. I see the different categories on the boards, and many of the descriptors are very funny to me and true to my experience. Yet the "PD"-ish aspects of what I've got going on seem to go hand in hand with, for example, the "dissociative disorder" stuff - like part and parcel of the same overarching 'thing,' not separate things that compound each other. If that makes any sense. Anyway thanks a lot to everyone who posted here and is with me in this. I really hope we can all end up with more and more positive relationships with our art and our selves.
  23. Thanks for the welcome and for writing back! Yeah I totally feel inferior and useless. I think it would be a lot better for me if I could accept there are heights I won't reach and just have fun. It's very hard in my hyper-capitalist productivity-as-worth culture. Also yeah I think you are right, a lot of artists and writers seem to have had inferiority complexes, that is helpful to think of. One thing I am having trouble accepting is that I always wanted to be a musician, but it is turning out that I am a much better writer than I am a musician. This is hard to accept, as the person I love wants to have a band together, and I feel like I am just holding them back. Part of why I posted this in PDs is because my difficulty has a lot to do with how intensely sensitive I am and how painful everything in life is for me as a result. It is exhausting. Part of this for me is hyper-empathy, which I guess some people think makes you more compassionate, but for me it seems to have the effect of making me less compassionate because it hurts so much to feel everyone's feelings or what I project their feelings to be or both all the time. Anyway I really appreciate you writing back and again thank you, I have lurked for a long time and now it's time to post and try to know people, so I guess that's progress in a way.
  24. Also wanted both my parents to die my entire childhood. It's gotten a bit better since I've accepted that I am not in any way obligated to ever speak to them or see them again, but I still get really upset thinking my childhood was spent that way. I also threatened one parent and used "violence"aka self defense against them both to get them to stop hurting me. You are not alone.
  25. This whole quarantine thing has literally just drawn a huge underline under the fact that I hate where I live and there is literally nothing for me here except cheap rent. Which I guess isn't nothing but damn.

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