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SheltieUnderdog

Will the screeners and the cops arbitrarily put me in the generic looney bin if I admit to them that while I do not want to commit suicide that I would accept being euthanized if it were legal and that I personally believe that it should be?

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Since that is hypothetical, what grounds would they have to put me in the looney bin that is not arbitrary?

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The law. Code of medical ethics. Their oath to human health and life. Mental health system protocol and procedure. 

They may seem arbritary, but they are not because none of them are personal whim. 

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Or perhaps consider it from this point, believing that euthanasia should be legal is very different to actually accepting yourself to be euthanised. 

They would be required to ask why you would accept it for yourself. If you cannot provide an answer that without a doubt does not show your mental state is impacting upon your decision making, they have the legal duty to prevent you from ending your life, the fact it is euthanasia as a method is irrelevant in that context because it is a method of ending your life that comes with extreme risk, and they are legally required to do whatever is necessary to make sure you don't, whether that be done voluntarily or against your will. That is their job. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

Or perhaps consider it from this point, believing that euthanasia should be legal is very different to actually accepting yourself to be euthanised. 

They would be required to ask why you would accept it for yourself. If you cannot provide an answer that without a doubt does not show your mental state is impacting upon your decision making, they have the legal duty to prevent you from ending your life, the fact it is euthanasia as a method is irrelevant in that context because it is a method of ending your life that comes with extreme risk, and they are legally required to do whatever is necessary to make sure you don't, whether that be done voluntarily or against your will. That is their job. 

Why are you so cookie-cutter and defend ethics codes and police programming so belligerently? May I also ask why if there have been over 60 attempts by them which have failed and I insist to them that they will keep failing that they will keep doing this? That is insanity (or madness rather) and justifies the desire for euthanasia to be legalized over dealing with them. The fact that the laws and obligations you mention are all collectivist and do not value individuality above collectivism is part of what makes me see little to zero value in this existence. All attempts by them have been generic, premeditated, and all the same, regardless if they are arbitrary or not (in my opinion, if they weren't getting paid as state workers they wouldn't be doing anything and that is almost a fact). They follow the same methods every time and actually increase my suicidal ideation / desire for euthanasia to be legalized in the process but will do it anyway because they are collectivist and arbitrary. I have a right to think it is selfish that an overpaid screener and a police officer who will use force on me because I don't want to go to a hospital system that is worthless to me and spike up an arbitrary rough estimate $80,00 bill for their overpriced Grade E meals which make me come out supporting euthanasia and also become fatter and more lethargic at the same time? I think that someone getting paid to tell me that it's wrong and offensive for me to not want to share the same existence as them is inherently selfish and a form of madness. I have no family, friends, and I've never had a girlfriend or significant other. I only leave my apartment because I have to in order to not starve to death. No one will be affected and after the cremation it will save the state money. How is my desire for legal euthanization a form of irrational mental illness when I can make such profound sense of it over them just sticking hospital, police, state, and federal codes in my face like androids?

Edited by SheltieUnderdog

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Just now, Hopelessly Broken said:

You asked for an answer, I gave one. Doesn't mean I agree or approve of those reasons.

It sounded like you supported the so-called ethics system. Somehow you meant differently. I just want to know why they will keep repeating the same methods over and over again when they are not getting the desired results and I cannot be helped and do not want to be helped. There are countries where it is legal and they do it under rare circumstances where the person is very mentally and / or physically ill and cannot be helped and in my opinion is a better solution than going to the hospital hundreds of times and not getting any desired result. I am not saying that I am going to end it today or even in the near future but don't just hate life, I am incompatible with this existence. I want a different existence with different biological laws where I can be amended into a self-reproductive hermaphrodite and live in an oasis where I can fornicate with myself and reproduce female intersex offspring. What can a screener and the police do to bring me any closer to that by ripping me out of my apartment, embarrassing me in front of my apartment complex for the 61st time, and escorting me into the ER and staying with me until the last second like I am 3 years old?

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Posted (edited)

Because its a fucked system that no one with the power to change has any care to reform. I agree with several of your points and have my own personal baggage of trauma because of them. The only way to "combat" it that I have found is to do what is necessary to ensure they will not be involved, however I would not recommend doing so because the amount of restraint on thought and behaviour that requires is exhausting and a form of mental torture, as is continuing "life" even though you believe it is immoral to do so. I have many reasons to have the same opinion and view as you towards my own life, I have paid the price for being honest about it and have learnt my lesson from the trauma inflicted upon me as a result of being committed against my will over 30 times and almost double the amount of involuntary treatments due to suicide attempts and self-harm. I have a very long history of complex trauma and chronic suicidality. 

That lesson is keep my mouth shut about the subject around people who don't care to actually listen and treat me with dignity and as an individual person, and that using certain behaviours are not worth the risk of the trauma of committment to a place that has only ever abused me. 

But like I said, I do not recommend by any means, it is just what I have to do. 

Edited by Hopelessly Broken

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By the way, I apologise if I came across as disrespectful. I just take things literally and gave the answer that I know as opposed to my opinion, because you didn't ask for opinions.

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22 minutes ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

Because its a fucked system that no one with the power to change has any care to reform. I agree with several of your points and have my own personal baggage of trauma because of them. The only way to "combat" it that I have found is to do what is necessary to ensure they will not be involved, however I would not recommend doing so because the amount of restraint on thought and behaviour that requires is exhausting and a form of mental torture, as is continuing "life" even though you believe it is immoral to do so. I have many reasons to have the same opinion and view as you towards my own life, I have paid the price for being honest about it and have learnt my lesson from the trauma inflicted upon me as a result of being committed against my will over 30 times and almost double the amount of involuntary treatments due to suicide attempts and self-harm. I have a very long history of complex trauma and chronic suicidality. 

That lesson is keep my mouth shut about the subject around people who don't care to actually listen and treat me with dignity and as an individual person, and that using certain behaviours are not worth the risk of the trauma of committment to a place that has only ever abused me. 

But like I said, I do not recommend by any means, it is just what I have to do. 

No. That is exactly what I do anyway because of the relentless intimidation of the screeners and the police... Keep my fucking mouth shut and be silent as fuck. I am just sick of having to keep my mouth sewn shut to avoid the same unnecessary and unwanted circumstances for the remainder of my life when I do not value life and have an incompatibility with this existence. The existence is the biggest fucking problem because I exist but I have no life and I am not willing to change that until the time comes that I progress into a different existence amended as a hermaphrodite with zero responsibility or expectation to contribute to a society. Did I say that I have no desire to contribute anything and that is an expectation of so-called life in order to define yourself? I just wish euthanization was legal for someone with hundreds if not thousands of failed hospitalizations and they cannot and will not get better based on repeated patterns and data. 2nd and 3rd world countries understand this but never 1st world except for rare cases of the elderly in certain states. You also just find suitable housing, make the place comfortable, buy and maintain a car to get yourself around or use medical and public transportation, take your medicine, and just not let anyone except medical professionals and your auto mechanic know that you exist and wait to die. Now talk about an existence without a life. That is guaranteed to happen. You exist and eventually die but not everyone experiences life.

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So am I. But in the collective perspective that, and I don't matter. It only matters to me, because I matter to me. You can't change someone with a collective view, only they can change themselves. It seems in today's ideal, being an individual is doom and gloom, even wrong. Which is a real shame. 

 

And yes, I know what its like to exist without any actual life. I've always done that, well other than being forced to survive.

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And I agree also that there comes a point where doing the same shit over and over again, or any effort at all, becomes futile and pointless because its obvious nothing besides harm is going to come of it. I do personally agree with euthanasia in all instances, but I highly doubt it will ever be a reality in this society. Its too stubborn and resistant to it. 

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This is a pretty damn grey area, and I wouldn't say people are wrong if they disagree with me because I'm not sure myself. Euthanasia should be legal. You hear about people with these awful conditions who want to end their lives with dignity and it's hard to disagree. I watched my father die from dementia and I'd rather die than go through that or put other people through that. Mental illness is pretty tricky in regards to euthanasia. Someone has a physical illness which reduces their quality of life so much that that they'd prefer death. Most people would feel sympathetic.

A mental illness can also reduce the quality of life so much that someone prefers death. What's the difference? There is a difference I think, though it's hard to explain. I have felt suicidal and if we had suicide booths like in Futurama I would've walked into one by now. Probably what stopped me was the thought that maybe I'm wrong, and I should maybe think on it for a few days. I've got the rest of my life to kill myself after all. What point am I trying to make? I guess more than a physical illness a mental illness can alter the way you think. When I was telling people how hopeless everything is and how I wish I was dead some people would say that they've felt the same but things can get better. I didn't believe a word of it, but I suppose they sort of did get better since I'm not regularly posting about how much I want to die anymore (it was a different forum). Life can seem like misery and suffering and pain, with no hope of things getting better. Send me to Switzerland please. If you could objectively be certain that things are always going to be so shit then euthanasia would be justified. That's less certain with a mental illness than with having a degenerative illness for example.

Just my thoughts on the subject. Feel free to disagree.

 

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23 minutes ago, Fluent In Silence said:

Life can seem like misery and suffering and pain, with no hope of things getting better. Send me to Switzerland please.

That might not provide the result you expect. What I remember from my trip to Switzerland was the best night''s sleep I have ever had in my life in a down comforter that had to have been a foot and a half thick, and chocolates so good it's a miracle God didn't keep them all for Himself. And the swans didn't hiss. It was lovely.

26 minutes ago, Fluent In Silence said:

if we had suicide booths like in Futurama I would've walked into one by now.

That's why we don't have suicide booths. But then, if life was like Futurama we'd all be hooked on Slurm™ as well.

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On 5/17/2020 at 12:45 PM, Fluent In Silence said:

. Life can seem like misery and suffering and pain, with no hope of things getting better. Send me to Switzerland please. If you could objectively be certain that things are always going to be so shit then euthanasia would be justified. That's less certain with a mental illness than with having a degenerative illness for example.

Just my thoughts on the subject. Feel free to disagree.

 

There is hope, there are dozens of medications and hundreds of possible poly medication combinations.

Plus there are many different types of therapy.  I feel like I fought like a warrior to get where I am today. 

 

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On 5/17/2020 at 3:45 PM, Fluent In Silence said:

This is a pretty damn grey area, and I wouldn't say people are wrong if they disagree with me because I'm not sure myself. Euthanasia should be legal. You hear about people with these awful conditions who want to end their lives with dignity and it's hard to disagree. I watched my father die from dementia and I'd rather die than go through that or put other people through that. Mental illness is pretty tricky in regards to euthanasia. Someone has a physical illness which reduces their quality of life so much that that they'd prefer death. Most people would feel sympathetic.

A mental illness can also reduce the quality of life so much that someone prefers death. What's the difference? There is a difference I think, though it's hard to explain. I have felt suicidal and if we had suicide booths like in Futurama I would've walked into one by now. Probably what stopped me was the thought that maybe I'm wrong, and I should maybe think on it for a few days. I've got the rest of my life to kill myself after all. What point am I trying to make? I guess more than a physical illness a mental illness can alter the way you think. When I was telling people how hopeless everything is and how I wish I was dead some people would say that they've felt the same but things can get better. I didn't believe a word of it, but I suppose they sort of did get better since I'm not regularly posting about how much I want to die anymore (it was a different forum). Life can seem like misery and suffering and pain, with no hope of things getting better. Send me to Switzerland please. If you could objectively be certain that things are always going to be so shit then euthanasia would be justified. That's less certain with a mental illness than with having a degenerative illness for example.

Just my thoughts on the subject. Feel free to disagree.

 

I have mental illness and physical disabilities. I suck at everything and hate being challenged. I have no desire to contribute to society or the species. I have met people which also have both and their lives always suck. Only the current modern technology we have in recent makes a lot of people like myself less miserable and willing to live.

I have shit genetics and an ethnic background or mixture that makes my body inhumane, deformed and not worth living for. I don't see enough incentive to maintain my health and just stuff my face even though I have a slow metabolism. I was handed the worst deck of cards and tossed like a piece of insignificant waste into an environment filled with what I would like to believe are Atheists. Just saying. They have to be full-blown Atheists to lie to themselves and me as pathologically as they do on a second to second basis. They have no conviction, are completely full of shit, and are never scared of themselves and that has to come mostly from their lack of beleif and fear of a higher power. I believe that the higher power might be saddened by my hypothetical suicide or euthanization but is probably more understanding than the majority of the subhuman race which is hellbent to adhere to their codes to keep everyone alive at all costs without examining each person as an individual and rather a collective.

Imagine if you got another chance at life still knowing that you had to witness his dementia repeat itself all over again? I am assuming that you would reject that.

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On 5/17/2020 at 4:15 PM, Cerberus said:

That might not provide the result you expect. What I remember from my trip to Switzerland was the best night''s sleep I have ever had in my life in a down comforter that had to have been a foot and a half thick, and chocolates so good it's a miracle God didn't keep them all for Himself. And the swans didn't hiss. It was lovely.

That's why we don't have suicide booths. But then, if life was like Futurama we'd all be hooked on Slurm™ as well.

I don't even like chocolate and the pathetic fact that everyone from Oprah to my mother's side of the family in society is obsessed with it and always brings it up when referring to euphoria actually increases my suicidal ideation. I keep telling them that I do not like it and they can only remember if I keep torturing myself on a monthly basis reminding them that I would rather get something more complex like edible cookie dough rather than a block of chocolate shaped like an Easter bunny but they are so traditional, by-the-motions,, arbitrary, and stuck in their ways that I will eventually start giving me chocolate again like a revolving door of human stupidity and lack of effort. That's the genetics I come from. Yes, there is Italian in there.

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On 5/18/2020 at 4:28 PM, bpladybug said:

There is hope, there are dozens of medications and hundreds of possible poly medication combinations.

Plus there are many different types of therapy.  I feel like I fought like a warrior to get where I am today. 

 

No. I see no value in being challenged by anything and feeling like a warrior sounds unpleasant and intimidating to me. That sounds like it normally takes too long and involves a lot of psychiatric and psychological treatment. I would rather just take the first medication I found which prevents hallucinations (what has gotten me involuntarily institutionalized and arrested) and doesn't have intolerable amounts of akithisia even though they all make me morbidly obese. I am willing to do that because I don't like hallucinating. I am still somewhat delusional at times on this medicine and I have to admit that I like that because it keeps me occupied. I am actually less bored and feel more pleasure when I am delusional as long as I do not hallucinate. What is the point of coming back to reality when doing that is more challenging than being slightly delusional with no risk of it escalating and becoming acute psychosis.

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3 hours ago, SheltieUnderdog said:

the pathetic fact that everyone from Oprah to my mother's side of the family in society is obsessed with it and always brings it up when referring to euphoria actually increases my suicidal ideation.

I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, the 'pathetic fact' of human obsession with chocolate cannot be summarily dismissed. It is not, in fact, pathetic - it's scientific. Specifically, among the naturally-occurring chemicals in chocolate are caffeine, phenylethylamine, tryptophane, and theobromide, which, severally, are responsible for elevation of mood, increased production of dopamine, serotonin or other neurotransmitters, the promotion of the activity of neurotransmitters, and the release of endorphine. In addition, eating sweetened chocolate raises blood glucose levels, providing energy. Humans have been savoring cacao since antiquity, originally as a beverage among the peoples of Central America, who drank it without sweetening and with the addition of chili peppers. The Aztecs, it might be noted, had no concept of the Easter Bunny. Their closest equivalent seems to have been the Centzon Tōtōchtin, or "four hundred rabbits", a group of divine rabbits who gathered frequently for drunken parties. (I have no further insight into this; you would have to ask an Aztec or a rabbit.)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, SheltieUnderdog said:

They have to be full-blown Atheists to lie to themselves and me as pathologically as they do on a second to second basis. They have no conviction, are completely full of shit, and are never scared of themselves and that has to come mostly from their lack of belief and fear of a higher power. 

This is some high grade, absolutely moronic nonsense. Being an atheist does not mean you are absent of conviction, are full of shit or never scared of yourself. Nor does lack of conviction, being full of shit or absence of anxiety surrounding oneself mostly come from lack of belief in or a fear of a high power.

It just means you don't believe in a god or deity, and that you don't subscribe to, nor believe in, any relegion. But thanks for the attempted insult. I assure you that I have plenty of convictions and morality, as do the vast majority of atheists.

Edited by Hopelessly Broken
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1 hour ago, Cerberus said:

I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, the 'pathetic fact' of human obsession with chocolate cannot be summarily dismissed. It is not, in fact, pathetic - it's scientific. Specifically, among the naturally-occurring chemicals in chocolate are caffeine, phenylethylamine, tryptophane, and theobromide, which, severally, are responsible for elevation of mood, increased production of dopamine, serotonin or other neurotransmitters, the promotion of the activity of neurotransmitters, and the release of endorphine. In addition, eating sweetened chocolate raises blood glucose levels, providing energy. Humans have been savoring cacao since antiquity, originally as a beverage among the peoples of Central America, who drank it without sweetening and with the addition of chili peppers. The Aztecs, it might be noted, had no concept of the Easter Bunny. Their closest equivalent seems to have been the Centzon Tōtōchtin, or "four hundred rabbits", a group of divine rabbits who gathered frequently for drunken parties. (I have no further insight into this; you would have to ask an Aztec or a rabbit.)

You don't sound sorry to hear that at all. How the fuck am I even supposed to remember all of that when my IQ is around 95 and I have a speed processing disorder? Please God perform some kind hypnosis on the federal governments in first world countries convincing them to gradually legalize euthanization so I don't have to feel obliged to respond to comments like this... I will humiliate myself for you to encourage you to reward me. Humiliation and being pathetic rather than undertaking a challenge to sustain having a lifeform, fuck yes I would take that.

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