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My daughter who is 18 is very depressed and angry.

She lashes out at me and is very nasty and disrespectful. My older sons and one Gf overheard this and were very upset. They all said I need to be harder on her and not allow her to speak to me that way. I mostly ignore her behavior because it triggers me. They think she's walking all over me and I don't know what to do about it....

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Ad to not violate the 3rd party rule, I was suggesting that because maybe you could speak with her doctor to set up ways to manage the difficulties 

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She needs counseling at the very least. I would be willing to say you too might need counseling to help you deal with this.

She may need med(s) from a general physician or more preferably a psychiatrist.

If it were my household (and it's not), I would lay down some ground rules. Either she goes to the therapy sessions and psychiatrist sessions, and takes her meds as she's been prescribed and actively works on improving her behavior, or there will be dire, dire consequences. I'm not saying kick her out, that would likely set her up to fail in life. But She's 18, "technically" and "legally" an adult (even though we know that's not how the developing brain really works, her brain, if she's lucky, won't quit developing until she's around 25 IIRC), and she needs to take responsibility/accountability for her actions, whether they're being guided by any sort(s) of mental illness(es) or not.

I don't know the full details of this website, and I may be going a little overboard in violating policies about responding to a post about someone else. If, so, I do apologize mods. I've more or less been in the "troubled child" situation a lot of my younger years and I feel for her and her mother.

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1 hour ago, mikl_pls said:

She needs counseling at the very least. I would be willing to say you too might need counseling to help you deal with this.

She may need med(s) from a general physician or more preferably a psychiatrist.

If it were my household (and it's not), I would lay down some ground rules. Either she goes to the therapy sessions and psychiatrist sessions, and takes her meds as she's been prescribed and actively works on improving her behavior, or there will be dire, dire consequences. I'm not saying kick her out, that would likely set her up to fail in life. But She's 18, "technically" and "legally" an adult (even though we know that's not how the developing brain really works, her brain, if she's lucky, won't quit developing until she's around 25 IIRC), and she needs to take responsibility/accountability for her actions, whether they're being guided by any sort(s) of mental illness(es) or not.

I don't know the full details of this website, and I may be going a little overboard in violating policies about responding to a post about someone else. If, so, I do apologize mods. I've more or less been in the "troubled child" situation a lot of my younger years and I feel for her and her mother.

Good advice.

What type of consequences? Thats where I struggle

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I was a pretty mentally ill child, too, as well as my sister, but she was the angrier one.  One thing that I think really helped our socialization, as well as helped me realize that I needed to go back into psychiatric/psychological assistance was intense pressure to get a job and go to school, because I was capable of neither of those things without further assistance.  I was kind of crappy at the life transitions thing, so that age range was pretty rocky.  I am not really sure how helpful that is if you are caught in a dynamic where she is dominating you.  Maybe therapy about boundaries for yourself would be helpful, with specific applications to parenting?  I'm sorry you're dealing with this.  I don't really know how my mom did it.

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53 minutes ago, deeschmee said:

Good advice.

What type of consequences? Thats where I struggle

I'm not good at kind of thing, I'm not a parent. That would maybe be something to have a therapist help you with.

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Posted (edited)

well I was an angry, depressed teen girl

I wouldn't go overboard with the consequences

my mother called the police when I left the house without her permission

and had me thrown in juvenile hall

that did NOT help me or the situation

you are in a difficult position

Edited by bpladybug
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9 hours ago, Iceberg said:

Ad to not violate the 3rd party rule, I was suggesting that because maybe you could speak with her doctor to set up ways to manage the difficulties 

Just to clarify, Dee isn't violating the site's First-Person requirement with this thread, because she's talking about the way her daughter's MI is affecting her own ability to cope in the context of her own MI.

Deeschmee, dealing with MI in your own children is tough, tough, tough. My own daughter has the depression monster riding on her shoulders too, and it keeps me awake nights both worrying about her and feeling a ton of guilt because I know she got those genes from me. This isn't something to try to weather on your own if it's gotten to the point of verbal and psychological abuse, especially to the degree that it would upset a third party. Because your daughter is 18, there's a limit to what you can require your daughter to do (legally), and if she's anything like mine, I'll bet she's sure to let you know it. What they don't realize, however, is the degree to which they are still dependent, whether they like it or not. While you may not be able to simply demand that she keep her pdoc appointments and get compliance, you are in a position to offer her choices - real-life choices.

If she refuses to see the doctor or take her meds, if she continues to treat you badly, you may have to let the flow of support dry up a bit. @bpladybug is likely right not to go too far with consequences, given the MI situation, but there must be at least some consequence for this unacceptable behavior. Use of the car is a privilege, not a right. You are not a indentured servant, so it may be that her clothes do not get washed until she washes them herself, or she may come to the supper table to find that no food has been prepared for her. You need not be overt or aggressive with these things - simply passively explain that they are the natural consequence of the behavior she has chosen, and will change if she chooses differently. This is the way the World works, and she's going to have to come to terms with it. She will not survive in the outside world if she doesn't learn how to act. In any event, you are not under any obligation to endure the abuse, and you shouldn't put up with it any longer, lest it become an assumed liberty.

I know you're worried about her. I'm not attempting to say to you: "This is what you need to do" based on my experience with raising my son and daughter (now 23 and 21 respectively) because I don't know if I've done the right things myself. I'm tormented by doubt. Time alone will tell whether they turn out all right in the end. But, in the end, they are themselves, sovereign souls of planet Earth, about to embark on a voyage. All you and I can do, at last, is stand on the pier and wave, and hope.

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My daughter was disrespectful and angry towards me for years. She is 22 now and just in the past year or so it has gotten better. She was living in an apartment on campus and I think the distance helped. She has been home since March and she is nicer to me.  

people did say similar things to me.  That I should not let her get away with that behavior.  She is stubborn and stronger willed than me.  I just had to wait for her to mature.  I am still not her favorite person but she does not get angry at me.

I am not saying not to take her depression and moodiness seriously.  Definitely have her see a doctor.  I am just saying with proper treatment and time things should improve.

(sorry if I am way off base)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cerberus said:

Just to clarify, Dee isn't violating the site's First-Person requirement with this thread, because she's talking about the way her daughter's MI is affecting her own ability to cope in the context of her own MI.

Deeschmee, dealing with MI in your own children is tough, tough, tough. My own daughter has the depression monster riding on her shoulders too, and it keeps me awake nights both worrying about her and feeling a ton of guilt because I know she got those genes from me. This isn't something to try to weather on your own if it's gotten to the point of verbal and psychological abuse, especially to the degree that it would upset a third party. Because your daughter is 18, there's a limit to what you can require your daughter to do (legally), and if she's anything like mine, I'll bet she's sure to let you know it. What they don't realize, however, is the degree to which they are still dependent, whether they like it or not. While you may not be able to simply demand that she keep her pdoc appointments and get compliance, you are in a position to offer her choices - real-life choices.

If she refuses to see the doctor or take her meds, if she continues to treat you badly, you may have to let the flow of support dry up a bit. @bpladybug is likely right not to go too far with consequences, given the MI situation, but there must be at least some consequence for this unacceptable behavior. Use of the car is a privilege, not a right. You are not a indentured servant, so it may be that her clothes do not get washed until she washes them herself, or she may come to the supper table to find that no food has been prepared for her. You need not be overt or aggressive with these things - simply passively explain that they are the natural consequence of the behavior she has chosen, and will change if she chooses differently. This is the way the World works, and she's going to have to come to terms with it. She will not survive in the outside world if she doesn't learn how to act. In any event, you are not under any obligation to endure the abuse, and you shouldn't put up with it any longer, lest it become an assumed liberty.

I know you're worried about her. I'm not attempting to say to you: "This is what you need to do" based on my experience with raising my son and daughter (now 23 and 21 respectively) because I don't know if I've done the right things myself. I'm tormented by doubt. Time alone will tell whether they turn out all right in the end. But, in the end, they are themselves, sovereign souls of planet Earth, about to embark on a voyage. All you and I can do, at last, is stand on the pier and wave, and hope.

This is exactly what I needed to hear. I feel so very weak and unequipped to deal with any of this.

Thank you

Not at all off base. It helps to know others can relate

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Everything is my fault because of my depression and she doesn't want pills or help because she will never feel better anyways. I really don't know what to say or how to help her when she is unwilling to get help

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2 hours ago, deeschmee said:

Everything is my fault because of my depression and she doesn't want pills or help because she will never feel better anyways. I really don't know what to say or how to help her when she is unwilling to get help

Just a thought, and not particularly useful if she refuses help, but my 17-year-old recently finished a DBT group program and seemed to find it really helpful in learning to deal with intense emotions and figuring out how to express herself better with us when she feels rotten. She also does DBT-based therapy and works on her skills there. I don't have any answers about how to get your daughter to be medically or therapeutically compliant, however. But good luck. I know it's really stressful.

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2 hours ago, deeschmee said:

Everything is my fault because of my depression and she doesn't want pills or help because she will never feel better anyways. I really don't know what to say or how to help her when she is unwilling to get help

That sounds rough.  If you could find one, would she go to a support group for young people with depression or group therapy.?  

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3 hours ago, deeschmee said:

Everything is my fault because of my depression and she doesn't want pills or help because she will never feel better anyways. I really don't know what to say or how to help her when she is unwilling to get help

Dee, her own depression is doing a lot of the talking, there. She's clearly symptomatic. Everything isn't your fault, because of your depression or for any other reason. What does "everything" mean, anyway? Don't let her (or yourself, for that matter) get away with using sweeping terms like that, or "always" or "never", because they're red flags that what's being said isn't rational and isn't true, and hasn't been thought through.

One of the hardest parts of watching any loved one deal with certain types of MI, whether it be depression, addiction, or other things, is that sometimes that person will be unable to receive help until he or she hits a personal rock-bottom and has a realization that he or she can't keep going that way any longer and something has to change. One of the most important reasons we feel pain and discomfort is that it promotes change and growth; if we always felt great, why would we ever change anything? So it may be that your daughter may have to wallow in it a while until she reaches the point where she's ready to be helped. And God bless you, that is the hardest thing for a parent. It doesn't matter how old they are, watching them suffer and letting them fail is excruciating. What do you do, what do you say? You stand by, with your ears open, watchful but at arm's length, and neither push nor pull. When she comes to you in need (and she will), treat her as you would treat an adult. Frame advice as suggestions, or options she may want to consider. Find ways to help her feel empowered to control her own life, which, to her at this moment, likely feels as though it's gotten madly out of hand.

Look after yourself as well - in fact, even more so right now. Just because your daughter's MI is acting up doesn't mean that your own is on vacation. Living around a person with depression has a draining impact on anyone, and for another depressive, it's just an express ticket to the Abyss. Don't take that train if you can help it. (The beds in the sleeper cars suck, it's been known to derail, and the conductor's a grumpy bastard who smells like cabbage.)

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Like @Cerberus said, one crucial element here is your own self care. You can’t help others be healthy without accounting for your own health first, even when it’s someone you might feel partially responsible for. Idk if it helps, but I was Dx bipolar at 14, first year of high school, and I said did a lot of horrible shit to my family, especially my parents. But it was almost all MI... when I came to understand that and they came to understand that we were able to keep our relationship healthy and functional going foreward, even through bumpy patches. They were great parents and did all they could for me, but even the greatest parents (or friends for that matter) can’t take the irrationality or emotional liability out of MI. My point is, it took awhile, but MI does not have to end up the defining factor in your relationship. It took me awhile to realize I needed help, and during that period my parents were frustrated that they couldn’t reach me, but that doesn’t mean it was their fault. Just remember that... she is your daughter and of course you feel somewhat responsible and want to help, but it in no way means you’re on the hook for all of the problems 

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Posted (edited)

I am in awe of the wisdom that you have shared with me. The eloquence of your words has given me peace in my heart and let me feel that I can get through this. You really are remarkable people with so much insight and I thank you for that

Especially @cerberus and @Iceberg

Edited by deeschmee

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