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2 hours ago, mikl_pls said:

I get you on wanting to put it off for the current reasons at hand...

Wow, I can't believe my memory served me right for once! Lol usually my memory is terrible lol. I think I have associated your profile picture + your avatar with some of your meds somehow... (I don't know why or how those things have made a connection in my mind...)

I got off Victoza for the same reason. I was getting knots in my tummy where I would inject. My tremor is too severe to inject in my thigh or upper arm, and it hurts worse since I have a WHOLE lot more fat in my belly lol.

If you go for any other GLP-1 agonist like Victoza, I would highly recommend Ozempic. It has been wonderful for me. No GI side effects (particularly nausea) starting up like with Victoza, the injections aren't as painful (somoething to so with the Ozempic itself maybe?). I just love it all around. Trulicity was okay but I didn't feel like it was really doing anything for me. Never taken any of the other GLP-1 agonists, but haven't heard too many good things about Bydureon/Bydureon BCse, Byetta, or Adlyxin. Tanzeum got discontinued I think. They make an oral form of Ozempic, called "Rybelsus," if you don't even want to bother with weekly injections, I almost forgot. GLP-1 agonists are kinda the future of weight loss, weight management, and diabetes management I feel, as does my gdoc.

There are DPP-4 inhibitors that sort of act similarly to GLP-1 agonists. They stimulate insulin release and I believe inhibit glucagon release (a hormone that causes your liver to generate glucose from glycogen stores). They are weight neutral I believe, perhaps can lose a couple of pounds on them, but nothing serious.

Stay away from the SGLT2 inhibitors (Invokana, Jardiance, Farxiga, Steglatro) or any product containing one... A fellow user on this site got the infamous genital mycotic infection and had to have skin grafts on his genitals from it. They also have black box warnings for increased chances of limb amputation. They're nothing to mess around with. They basically make you pee out extra sugar in your body. They can cause weight loss. But none of it I don't think is worth the potential risks.

But you can't go wrong with good old metformin (if it works for you that is, I don't think it really does anything for me).

Wow, thanks, this is amazing information!!!!  I'm saving the email notification so I have it accessible when I next talk to pdoc.  This is really helpful.  

I injected Victoza into my right upper thigh - it'd get super bruised after awhile.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, mikl_pls said:

Oh I forgot... Metformin depletes your body of vitamin B12, so you might go out and grab yourself a good vitamin B12 supplement. Preferably methylcobalamin (methyl B12) over cyanocobalamin (what most OTC B12 supplements are). I don't know about dosage, I take 1000 mcg per day (for MTRR and MTR genetic mutations) along with 25 mg P-5-P (activated form of vitamin B6 I have to take due to genetic mutations, I think CBS upregulation it was...) and 15-30 mg L-methylfolate (for MTHFR genetic mutations).

Be very careful with methylated B vitamins because my husband was put on that and it caused intense irritability and episodes of rage that were terrifying and stopped as soon as he stopped the vitamin.

*I forgot to add he became suicidal in the span of a few days.

@jarn

Edited by saintalto

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Wow @saintalto - that's super scary!  I think my supplement is the regular kind.  I would worry knowing what happened to your husband.  

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On 7/24/2020 at 3:22 PM, jarn said:

I am bipolar (I think actually SZA, I've been diagnosed with that before, current pdoc says 'on the schizophrenic spectrum' and that psychosis is a bigger part of my disease than most bipolar people).  In case that gives context.

I take:

Zyprexa 15mg (20mg was causing me to sleep when I should be working)

Lamotrigine 300mg

Gabapentin 900mg

CBD for akathisia caused by Zyprexa, sometimes I need .5mg Ativan for that too, or to help sleep.  

Generic Alesse for birth control

I have had bad depression this week, sufficient that my husband stayed home with me Wednesday and made sure I got a pdoc appointment sooner (next Tuesday).  

It's a bit better today - I'm still depressed, but I was able to work all day.

I don't know if I need a med change or adjustment or what.  Zyprexa is new (since spring) and it's working pretty well from a psychosis perspective.  Should I ask about going up on lamotrigine?  Think of adding something new?  Or is this just a brief cycling?  I do realize I've been minorly depressed for a bit, but little enough that I didn't recognize it.

I see you are taking IR Metformin. Don't do that. The XL version features far less GI problems. On the IR I had cramps so bad they brought me to my knees. With XL all that stopped and I take 1 gram twice a day.

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Thanks @notloki - I'm definitely bringing this up next appointment!!!!

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35 minutes ago, jarn said:

Wow @saintalto - that's super scary!  I think my supplement is the regular kind.  I would worry knowing what happened to your husband.  

It was brief but horrible. :( 

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12 minutes ago, saintalto said:

It was brief but horrible. :( 

I can imagine.  Super scary.  Good you guys were able to pinpoint the cause.

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4 hours ago, saintalto said:

Be very careful with methylated B vitamins because my husband was put on that and it caused intense irritability and episodes of rage that were terrifying and stopped as soon as he stopped the vitamin.

*I forgot to add he became suicidal in the span of a few days.

@jarn

Ooh that's scary. 😢  There is a set of genetic mutations that supposedly makes one intolerant to any/all methyl donors of any kind. It involves having both a COMT V158M (rs4680) (+) allele and a VDR Taq (rs731236) (+) allele. That could've been the case for him.

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So...I have pdoc this afternoon.

I've been trying to do a workout every day, even if it's just a walk with the dogs (ooooh).  

But I am still fucking angry.  I think it overrides my depression.  I just have this ball of anger, that I am trying to control but which makes me feel awful.

Working out does help.  But I'm not sure that's always reasonable.  

My husband thinks I go from highs to lows to anger.

He thinks I should ask pdoc about victoza, which helped with depression in the past.  Instead of metformin.  

I don't know if I need a switch to my mood stabilizer.  I just know how I am now is awful.

Re: zyprexa - I think it is mostly working, though we had a bin of water bottles in the bathroom (don't ask), and I thought there was something in the bin that was bugged and listening to me.  I know it's not the case (and now can laugh at listening in a bathroom) but it took some mental work.  I've been thinking about violent thoughts I've had in the past, not wanting to do them, just thinking about them and how I'll have them in the future.

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i hope pdoc is helpful, jarn. living with that ball of anger isn't sustainable. fingers crossed that you find some relief soon.

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Thanks dances!

It was an okay appointment?  I hope I advocated for myself effectively, but I'm not sure I did.

We're raising the zyprexa to 25mg, and taking out Metformin and putting in Victoza (well, the weight loss version, which he thinks will be easier to have covered).  I've taken Victoza in the past for mood and it helped, so fingers crossed!

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9 hours ago, jarn said:

He thinks I should ask pdoc about victoza, which helped with depression in the past.  Instead of metformin.

They have done studies with Victoza (liraglutide) and found that it helps bipolar disorder at least that I've read. I found that I kinda felt listless and depressed on Victoza, not sure if that was just a coincidence or the Victoza.

The daily injections I didn't mind at first, but when I started getting the bruises and knots, I got tired of it and switched to Trulicity (weekly injection) which didn't do much of anything for me.

Now they have Ozempic (made by same people as Victoza), and it's pretty much Victoza 2.0. lol It's weekly injections, more weight loss, more A1c control, more blood sugar control, and probably better effects on the heart and maybe even mood. I was on it for a while but my endo broke his hip and he's been out of comission. I tried to get the Ozempic from my gdoc but they wanted a PA and it was turned down "because I hadn't tried metformin or other diabetes meds before." The hell I haven't! I've tried metformin up to 2000 mg (the IR version, I HIGHLY don't recommend trying that), and had to give it up because of the diarrhea... it was so bad it was almost like having fecal incontinence. I was always searching for bathrooms in public "just in case" and had to start bringing extra pairs of underwear if I would be out anywhere for an extended period. That may be TMI, but lord that was something I hope to never go through again. I don't know why I didn't switch to the XR version... I guess because my sister said she didn't lose any weight on it. I didn't lose any weight on either, so...

But TL;DR: Ozempic > Victoza > metformin. I'd try Ozempic first, but it's your meds and you're entirely entitled to do Victoza because it's tried and true. I wish I could've tried Saxenda, the weight loss version of liraglutide that goes up to 3.0 mg instead of 1.8 mg. But Ozempic is supposed to be better anyway, so...

Oh, and if you don't want to do injections, Ozempic has an oral tablet form... Rybelsus... it's taken daily. I don't think it's quite as robust as Ozempic, but it still does a good job and it's the only oral GLP-1 agonist.

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Posted (edited)

@mikl_pls I've been on victoza before and it really helped my mood.  I know you mentioned the weekly injections drug before, but I won't remember that - Toby and I discussed and agreed it wouldn't work.  

He's actually giving me Saxenda, so I should be able to go up higher.  We'll see.  

(I'm not diabetic either)

Thanks @dancesintherain

Edited by jarn
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On 8/26/2020 at 7:44 AM, jarn said:

@mikl_pls I've been on victoza before and it really helped my mood.  I know you mentioned the weekly injections drug before, but I won't remember that - Toby and I discussed and agreed it wouldn't work.  

He's actually giving me Saxenda, so I should be able to go up higher.  We'll see.  

(I'm not diabetic either)

Thanks @dancesintherain

If you can manage to get your insurance to pay for it, please tell me how you did it. My insurance won't cover it because it's a "weight loss drug."

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45 minutes ago, mikl_pls said:

If you can manage to get your insurance to pay for it, please tell me how you did it. My insurance won't cover it because it's a "weight loss drug."

Mine too

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Posted (edited)

My insurance covered it but my husband's didn't (I had to pay $46.93 out of pocket) - we'll have to look into it.  But the Canadian insurance system is completely different than what you guys have.

Edit:  when I took Victoza before, my (old;  I've switched jobs) insurance covered and my husband's (the same) didn't. 

Edited by jarn

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