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give them up

nothing is more irrational than being depressed over something that you should have done or could have done.  Through the years I've found the best way to dealing with depression is to focus on what is, not what could have or should have been.  What is, is all there is.  Find what is making you depressed in the moment and change it, or if you can't change it find a way to start on the path of changing it.  We need to understand the  importance of babysteps, we will not wake up one day suddenly feeling complete, it takes time and effort.  I am happy to start making the changes with a bunch of people who are also ready to change. 

Here is a quote I got today in an e-mail from a friend

""How can a person stand up for themself in the true meaning of

that phrase? By understanding that they do not consist of their

acquired sense of self. This must be understood at the start,

otherwise everything else they do will be futile and frustrating.

A person must see that their basic self is not made up of their memories,

their self-pictures and their labels by which they feel themself to be a

separate person who must compete with other people. Strangely, we

stand up for ourselves by losing what we have called ourselves.""

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Guest ldo unregistered

That's pretty good advice as far as it goes. However, I think the other half is that there is a physical/biological component. Some people can be very rational and at the same time biologically depressed. It only takes a tiny little tweak for apparent rationality to be used to defend almost anything. And if you're depressed you'll defend some pretty evil stuff. At least about yourself. So the two approaches (clear thinking and physical/chemical changes like meds (mostly), sun in the morning, etc.) need to be used together. And we need to be able to understand the past to understand where we are now. We also need to know that we never have the total and complete answer. We're too complicated, and the world's too complicated, for that.

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It is one thing to know intellectually that you should not be focusing on the coulds/shoulds and just live life the best way you can, but it is a totally different game to make yourself feel good, and to stop the intrusive could/should thoughts (thoughts you could/should not have!).

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I added the bold edit in Loon-A-Tik's post

It is one thing to know intellectually that you should not be focusing on the coulds/shoulds and just live life the best way you can, but it is a totally different game to make yourself feel good, and to stop the intrusive could/should thoughts (thoughts you could/should not have!).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very difficult indeed -- it's practically part of the way we're made up!

I think this is an effort that never ends, and that sometimes it can be very useful. There are times when there are definately things I 'should' be doing, like preparing class lessons rather than being online or reading something unrelated to class.

Overall, though, could and should are dangerous words to be used sparingly.

Fiona

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It is one thing to know intellectually that you should not be focusing on the coulds/shoulds and just live life the best way you can, but it is a totally different game to make yourself feel good, and to stop the intrusive could/should thoughts (thoughts you could/should not have!).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It gets easier as you go along.  Meditation is key in tuning in your focus and letting go of the hold we let these obtrusive thoughts have on us. 

In the east, intrusive and unwanted thoughts are usually dealt with by channeling them to other aspects of your being.  It works with art, music, and whatever you love to do, which ultimately is related to chakras but I like to keep it simple.  Ultimately it's just taking the energy that brings you down and manifesting it in ways that are beneficial to you.

It is common here in the west to just let the intrusive thought be until it no longer bothers you.  Psych docs use this sometime to treat people with OCD, if they fear germs they will make you get your hands all muddy and then sit there and have a conversation until your hands no longer bother you and you can converse normally.  This can work with depression too, though it is a tad riskier as the possibility of suicide comes into play if you keep entertaining negative thoughts without making progress. 

These are the two main ways that humans overcome thoughts that bother us.

If this interests you, I strongly reccomend getting into meditation.  It is extremely beneficial and I feel like a new person after even a short 15 minute session.  If you have the resources to take a yoga class I reccomend this too.  A workout for the mind and body.

Love,

Ryan   

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It is one thing to know intellectually that you should not be focusing on the coulds/shoulds and just live life the best way you can, but it is a totally different game to make yourself feel good, and to stop the intrusive could/should thoughts (thoughts you could/should not have!).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

p.s  trying to make yourself feel good is caused by thinking that you should not feel bad, or that you could feel good.  the longer you deny feelings the longer they stick around, the sooner you surrender to and accept them the quicker they can be replaced with more prefered feelings

it's human nature to want to feel good, but it is irrational to depress yourself even more on top of your already negative feelings by trying to feel something that, at the moment, you can't

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give them up

nothing is more irrational than being depressed over something that you should have done or could have done.  Through the years I've found the best way to dealing with depression is to focus on what is, not what could have or should have been.  What is, is all there is.  Find what is making you depressed in the moment and change it, or if you can't change it find a way to start on the path of changing it.  We need to understand the  importance of babysteps, we will not wake up one day suddenly feeling complete, it takes time and effort.  I am happy to start making the changes with a bunch of people who are also ready to change. 

Arrogant sophism depresses me.

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Eyes Of The World...

Hi! I noticed that you just joined CB a few days ago. Glad you're here!

I agree with the posters above that it's not a simple matter. However, I also see your point that meditation, mindfullness, yoga, et al. can help. No, it will never cure my (previously dx'd) depression or BP, but it still is a help when I practice it. Doesn't cure, helps me to cope with my MI.

NOTE TO SELF: Yup. Not a bad idea to start again. ;)

Language does have tremendous power. "Should", "could", "always, "never" and other words have influence. Hard to be mindful of this during times when we are in the depths of depression, though.

Again, IMHO, not a cure. Can be a help.

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Eyes Of The World...

Hi! I noticed that you just joined CB a few days ago. Glad you're here!

I agree with the posters above that it's not a simple matter. However, I also see your point that meditation, mindfullness, yoga, et al. can help. No, it will never cure my (previously dx'd) depression or BP, but it still is a help when I practice it. Doesn't cure, helps me to cope with my MI.

NOTE TO SELF: Yup. Not a bad idea to start again. ;)

Language does have tremendous power. "Should", "could", "always, "never" and other words have influence. Hard to be mindful of this during times when we are in the depths of depression, though.

Again, IMHO, not a cure. Can be a help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not claim that the path of meditation and self-awareness is a cure for mental illnesses.  However, I do claim that with enough persistance and dedication you will find yourself no longer thinking that there should be a cure.

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I do not claim that the path of meditation and self-awareness is a cure for mental illnesses.  However, I do claim that with enough persistance and dedication you will find yourself no longer thinking that there should be a cure.

I'd rather hang myself.  The thought that things could and should be better is all that keeps me alive. Spitting in the face of the absurd and all that.

Thanks anyway.

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I do not claim that the path of meditation and self-awareness is a cure for mental illnesses.  However, I do claim that with enough persistance and dedication you will find yourself no longer thinking that there should be a cure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd rather hang myself.  The thought that things could and should be better is all that keeps me alive. Spitting in the face of the absurd and all that.

Thanks anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Knowing that there is a "cure" or way to manage your illness is different from thinking that there should be a cure, and thus becoming depressed. 

I understand what you mean.  Optimisn has it's place, but what good comes from hoping that something better will come along day in and day out, when there is much to be grateful for in the present?

What do you mean by spitting in the face of absurd and all that? 

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Meditation is all very well if you can do it. For me, meditation just doesn't work until I take Adderall. Ok, it worked about 3 times without Adderall. Wonderfully. And then the novelty wore off.

With Adderall, I don't exactly find myself meditating very often, but I often am able to calm myself pretty well with 30 seconds of "sort of" meditation. It's handy. Sometimes.

YMMV, depending on what's going on inside your head.

In my experience, believing you know the CORRECT answer to the problem, whatever problem you are dealing with, as opposed to something that seems like it's working, is part of the problem rather than part of the answer. As soon as you are sure, you are wrong. At least a lot of the time. I think. I make an exception for well understood problems like the ones which can be fully dealt with in Newtonian physics. Then, you can be fairly certain. Assuming you didn't blow a unit conversion.

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I won't presume to speak for Velvet Elvis although I have an idea where he's coming from and would feel pretty confident in agreeing with his point of view without further discussion.

Pertaining to the below, what's keeping me here on the planet, is that my percentage of fragments of hope for the future currently outweighs what I have to be grateful for in the present.

Hope for the future is what has kept me still alive at 38yo; certainly not present times when I'm in the depths of despair.

Ruins

I understand what you mean.
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give them up

nothing is more irrational than being depressed over something that you should have done or could have done.  Through the years I've found the best way to dealing with depression is to focus on what is, not what could have or should have been.  What is, is all there is.  Find what is making you depressed in the moment and change it, or if you can't change it find a way to start on the path of changing it.  We need to understand the  importance of babysteps, we will not wake up one day suddenly feeling complete, it takes time and effort.  I am happy to start making the changes with a bunch of people who are also ready to change. 

Arrogant sophism depresses me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

VE, is arrogant sophism the same as "self-righteous asshole-ism"? Because that's what comes to mind when I read this type of "you can do it if you only try" drivel, but then I'm not as well spoken as some who have the huevos to assume they can *lead* us from our "erringly hopeless" abyssmal state of "could/shoud" mind and being.

S9

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There's a real place in our economic system for this stuff. Self help books. I don't know why they don't come in special metal bound editions with a place to tie a rope, just for the flagellants. I think every one of the books should come with special bootstraps, which have an extra loop for skyhooks or the wire also used for deus ex machina.

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Actually, the majority of your original post contains some pretty well-grounded insight, to wit:

give them up

nothing is more irrational than being depressed over something that you should have done or could have done.

Indeed.  For us stranded here on the material plane, time is a one-way ride.  Sometimes when I find myself wallowing in the past, I think about Stephen King's story The Langoliers, in which a group of people travel in time only to discover that there are creatures that follow along behind us literally eating the past we've just left behind.  There's nothing behind us that we could return to even if we wanted to.  I'm also reminded, however, of one of the wisest things I was ever told, by a high-school age girl who was my first girlfriend.  We had had an argument, and I said, "Let's just forget it, and start over."  And she said, "No!  Remember it.  And we'll work from there."  No experience is ever wasted, if you build upon it.

Through the years I've found the best way to dealing with depression is to focus on what is, not what could have or should have been.
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Actually, the majority of your original post contains some pretty well-grounded insight, to wit:

give them up

nothing is more irrational than being depressed over something that you should have done or could have done.

Indeed.  For us stranded here on the material plane, time is a one-way ride.  Sometimes when I find myself wallowing in the past, I think about Stephen King's story The Langoliers, in which a group of people travel in time only to discover that there are creatures that follow along behind us literally eating the past we've just left behind.  There's nothing behind us that we could return to even if we wanted to.  I'm also reminded, however, of one of the wisest things I was ever told, by a high-school age girl who was my first girlfriend.  We had had an argument, and I said, "Let's just forget it, and start over."  And she said, "No!  Remember it.  And we'll work from there."  No experience is ever wasted, if you build upon it.

Through the years I've found the best way to dealing with depression is to focus on what is, not what could have or should have been.  What is, is all there is.  Find what is making you depressed in the moment and change it, or if you can't change it find a way to start on the path of changing it.
Sages throughout history have emphasized that now is all we have, or at least all we can bank on.  But the enlightened thinker evaluates the now on a backdrop of what has previously transpired, to gain perspective on the now.  The Cerberus Little Wonder Analytic-O-Matic
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