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I came across an old post I'd made about Poland and their homophobic laws. Wondered if my response telling people to go fuck themselves (on a travel site) was still there. It was, surprisingly. There was this response which said that that Poland's anti-LGBT laws weren't prejudiced because they're only there to prevent gay indoctrination and stop them getting "uppity" (Yes they really did use that word. Uppity gay people acting like they have human rights. They do. Fuck you.). What the fuck is gay indoctrination? I'm not LGBT myself, just have a minimal degree of intelligence and have never come across gay people trying to indoctrinate me. "Look into my eyes. You're now a homosexual." Do people really believe this shit? There's gay people out there trying to indoctrinate others to accept their ideology. There isn't. I'm not gay but I am constantly surprised by the stupidity of people. Thought the bar was as low as it could go. Gay indoctrination! Hello! we've found a new low.

But that's just funny to me because those people are fucking idiots. People who are actually gay have to deal with these fucking idiots without getting "uppity". I'm not saying that these pricks deserve to burn to death in a house fire or anything. The gay propaganda trying to indoctrinate us. Pffft! Fuck off. Not gay myself and have never noticed this attempt by gays to take over the world. They've turned me! Oh no! But it's real for you and it's maybe not something you can always laugh about. If people believe that bullshit then they might be dangerous. It's not political correctness just basic human decency

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Here's the thing.

There is a subset of men who are deeply insecure in their masculinity, for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately for them, human sexuality was found by the Kinseys et. al. in studies from the 1970s to the present to be not a pair of diametric gender poles (masculine or feminine) but a continuous fluid spectrum from one to the other. Practically every person has the capacity, at some point, to some degree, for attraction to a person or persons of his or her own gender, because we are each an amalgam of animus and anima. For whatever psychological reason, these men fear that being associated with any sort of feminine trait will mark them as weak, unworthy, or vulnerable - in short, they feel threatened.

So it doesn't take a great deal of imagination for them to believe it possible for a homosexual to exercise a feminine influence (which they already view as mysterious and unexplainable in women) and assault them with it. While they may reassure themselves that they are immune to any such influence, they nonetheless take extraordinary measures to fend it off, from physical assault and battery on homosexual men for even the suggestion of "coming on" to them, to outright governmental crackdowns on basic human rights by ultra-right-wing governments (composed largely of very frightened little men).

The social codes that tell men what is "acceptably" masculine in mainstream society run very deep, and are evident even in men who might otherwise be liberal thinkers and allies of LGBTQ populations. I would point out that even you, for instance, an enlightened and liberal mind, in no fewer than three places in your post above make sure to express that you are not, yourself, gay. On the one hand, you do this to make it clear that you are not speaking from the experience of a member of the affected minority; but the fact that you do it repeatedly suggests that a there's a little Society voice whispering in your ear saying "You're not gay, though, are you? Surely not." I grew up in east Tennessee, in Appalachia, in the late 70s and early 80s, a late-late-late sexual bloomer, who had precious little understanding of what all this "sex" business was that everyone was on about, and didn't understand why guys kept calling me a 'fag' in the halls at school; I only knew that a 'fag' was something one absolutely did not want to be. Once I became more sexually aware I had a little Society voice muttering at me for ages, making my entire sexuality a muddled mess for far longer than necessary (made far worse by an Aspie mind that considered, and still considers, sex to be an unnecessary nuisance) and it's only after half a century of life that I'm relatively comfortable saying that I'm bisexual if I must be anything at all. I don't judge a man for not wanting to feel attracted to other men - it goes against everything we're taught. It takes courage to question one's fundamental definition. But I also know that denying one's genuinely dual nature is a recipe for unhappiness, and these Polish blokes are very unhappy indeed.

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I used to work with someone who told me that LGBTQ2S people were going to round up all the cishet people and force them into indoctrination camps.   

I mean, I told him he was an idiot, but also - how do you argue with that level of...unreasonableness?  Delusion?  Hatred?  Flat out fucking nuts?  I believe he also believed in the illuminati, so yeah. 

One day, after telling me that it was gay people's choice to be gay, he said 'I had the choice, and I chose to be straight' which clarified a lot of things in my mind.  

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On 12/28/2020 at 6:36 PM, jarn said:

I used to work with someone who told me that LGBTQ2S people were going to round up all the cishet people and force them into indoctrination camps.

I've argued sometimes that I think some of these people like your former coworker are perhaps projecting. It's like some of them know on some subconscious level that that's what they'd like to do to people who aren't like them (or maybe they remember horrific things done like enslaving people, the Tuskegee experiments, Japanese American incarceration camps, conversion therapy for non-cisgender people, etc.), so they assume that if those "others" had more privilege/power that that's what their instinct would be too--to do awful things to those with less power or take "revenge" or whatever.

My mom argues that people are always looking for ways to be "better than" on some level so that even if a person is considered to be on a relatively low rung in a particular culture/society, they like to feel like at least they're one rung higher than another group of people. She puts it better than I do.

I don't think our arguments are even in conflict. They could both be true. Or perhaps we're both way off with our theories. And the theories don't make anything "right". For us, it's like we feel compelled to try to understand where things are coming from so that maybe we can help change things.

Now, what I still can't wrap my head around is people who legit believe/believed in pizzagate and that type of stuff. I can come up with theories for most things...but pizzagate? Really? Is it just people love a sensational conspiracy theory, or satanic panic? Like the Mississippi Three case, and the McMartin preschool case? (Sorry if almost all of my references in this post are USA in origin.)

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Posted (edited)

gay indoctrination sounds like an awesome band name.

Edited by wookie
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On 12/28/2020 at 11:18 PM, Cerberus said:

I would point out that even you, for instance, an enlightened and liberal mind, in no fewer than three places in your post above make sure to express that you are not, yourself, gay. On the one hand, you do this to make it clear that you are not speaking from the experience of a member of the affected minority; but the fact that you do it repeatedly suggests that a there's a little Society voice whispering in your ear saying "You're not gay, though, are you? Surely not."

Reading it back I did wonder why I kept mentioning that. Christmas. A bit drunk at the time and drunks tend to repeat themselves. Did I mention that I'm not gay? I really want to make that clear because I don't want to be mistaken for someone who exercises regularly, dresses well and knows how to dance. Being called gay would be a compliment. I know those are stereotypes. But yes, saying that I'm not gay so much? The lady doth protest too much. No, that was excessive and probably due to my inebriated state of mind at the time rather than me wanting to hammer home the point that I'm not gay. Did I mention that I'm not gay?

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