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Well this might be chucking a hand grenade but it's something which has always interested me. The differences between men and women. I'm probably gender agnostic, but that sounds like a fucking cop out. The idea that women are equal to men isn't difficult. A lot of men are fucking idiots so it's not a high bar. I tend to get on better with women for some reason, which has done nothing to improve my sex life, it wasn't meant as a boast, but women tend to be nicer and more intelligent. Is it nature or nurture? A lot of the discussion about gender has started from the idea that women are different and inferior. Wasn't a good time for science or masculinity. Hysteria! A woman's womb travels around her body and upsets her emotions. Fucking what now? I was reading about criminology recently and there was a guy who said women are more deceptive because they have to hide menstruation and fake orgasms. Ay? Pfft! I don't trust my wife when she comes. She expects me to believe that I sexually pleasured her? His poor wife!

But I'm a man. I have broad shoulders and facial hair and all that shit. I don't know the difference between men and women. Well yeah, the obvious. Don't mean that. There are differences but is that due to socialisation? Or is that just something the evil feminazis want us to believe? Here's a tip. Anyone who uses the word 'Feminazi' is a fucking idiot who isn't worth your time. I'm probably annoyingly 'woke'. I see that women have been treated badly, and let me mansplain that to you. The word woke is itself annoying. Anyway, we have people who are non binary and gender fluid here and I'm interested in what they think. I wouldn't say I'm gender fluid, just find masculinity fucking ridiculous. Still a man, whatever that means. More than gender it's being a fucking weirdo. I've doubted that I'm a member of the human race on occasions, so I can't talk about us men. Fuck patriarchy. I've probably bored you enough but this song sums up a lot of the things I think about masculinity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si2pZRifgIo

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OK, bit of a drunken rant there. But not quite as stupid and embarrassing as I thought I'd been, and for which I've been hating myself and beating myself up for because it's not a good time to talk about such things and you should probably wait until you're sober and so full of self-doubt that you can't say anything. I was more worried that I'd sounded misandronistic (Isn't that how you spell it? Spell check - "Did you mean misogynistic?" Oh, I wrote misondronistic. I'll correct that so people don't think I'm stupid. Thought I was making a point about discrimination but it was about spelling in the end.)  Hating just men is progress I guess. I used to be a misanthropist. The human race is rubbish. But aren't you a human too? I guess so, but I'm not a good example anyway. Misandry (or however you fucking spell it) too. But aren't you a man too? Yeah sort of, but I'm not a good example anyway. Maybe going too far in both cases but still, though my fucking depressive mind tends to see the worst, it's because people have left a lot of dog shit there to look at. I don't really hate my fellow men - just hate myself. And a lot of us seem worse in many ways. A lot of us? I don't feel much of an "us" with some of the shit men do. So I guess self-loathing has it's good points.

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I tend to get along more easily with men. Men, or autistic women. The problem with getting along with men is that sometimes they think it means more than it does. Or they eventually wish it did, and they start to make nuisances of themselves.

Read this recently and thought it was interesting: 

https://www.boredpanda.com/tumblr-explanation-woman-idea-being-friends/

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First off, misandry exists. I spent six months at Simmons College in Boston doing post-graduate work after I completed my Master’s. Simmons is an all-women institution, but they accept men at the graduate level. The feminism was oppressive, and they did not attempt to disguise their contempt for me. My views were dismissed, my participation marginalized, my accomplishments minimized.

 I can hear women now, saying with great satisfaction, “Well! Now you know what it’s like to be a woman!”

I would reply, in turn, that those women behaved exactly like men behave when the roles were reversed. (Yes, there was even a comment about my body.) The misogyny women rightly complain of has its counterpart amongst the ideological feminists. The egalitarian feminists, perhaps not so much, but for the ideologists, misandry is such low-hanging fruit that it becomes irresistible.

 It’s also highly transferrable. The toxic masculinity that blights our culture and is being justly called to account at present is undeniably characteristic of some men. It does not describe all men, or even the majority of men, but many women are quite willing to agree with statements like “men can never just be friends - they all want to have sex with you”. That may be true of many, but it is not true of all. It is absolutely untrue of me, yet those who say such misandric things would have every woman view me with automatic doubt and suspicion.

Here’s a clue: Beware of absolute words such as All, Every, Always, None, and Never - any statement that pins a belief on one of them is almost certainly wrong.

And you, Sir, a word in your ear - reading that last post, I could smell the alcohol all the way over here across the Atlantic Ocean. Your state of mind came across very clearly. Self-hate, self-doubt, self-loathing, in as many words... you’re not even subtle about it. It won’t do, Sir. These ridiculous ideas about yourself being worthless are so easily debunked it’s almost a joke. We’ve had to speak to you about it before.

Please do the following:

1. Grasp the container of alcoholic beverage you are consuming and lift it vertically off the surface on which it rests. Ensure that the cap, stopper or cork has been removed.

2. Holding the container in an upright position, walk to the closest interface to your municipal sewage or wastewater system, for instance a sink, tub or loo.

3. Position the container directly over the opening to the interface.

4. Carefully rotate the container laterally 180° so that its opening faces downward directly facing the opening of the interface.

5. Hold this position for several seconds to allow the entire contents of the container to transfer from the container to the interface.

6. Recycle the empty container (or chuck it in the bin.)

7. Repeat this procedure with any other containers in your possession that hold alcoholic consumables.

This is a time-sensitive procedure, and it is important that you commence without delay.

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I always feel bad for men.  It must be difficult to try to navigate personhood/manhood with toxic expectations.  A lot of pressure.  It seems like it's hard for a lot of men to show emotion, to be validated in their feelings.  That's got to be awful.  I mean, not all men, but even still.  And for cishet men to show emotion for other men is again difficult.  

I am reminded - my husband is really not bound by a lot of 'men' things, but every now and then something pops up.  We were sitting in a booth at our local, and one of the owners was wearing a cap.  Toby said to me, I like that cap.  I said, ask Jeff where he got it.  No, no, I can't do that.  Why not?  You don't ask a guy that, you don't tell him you like what he's wearing.  WHAT?  I can ask him.  NO.  There was a family behind us and when Jeff bought their bill over the woman asked 'Where'd you get that hat?' and when Jeff left (after telling her) leaned over and said 'You're welcome'.  I cracked up.  But it seemed ridiculous.  How can a man so in touch with his feelings be beholden by some weirdo guy behaviour?

I have a number of close male friends.  I even go on camping trips with them by myself.  Toby's always been fine with it, as he should be.  One of them was leaving his wife who then tried to kill herself - he found out while I was with him - we held hands, he was so upset.  We are just friends, but sometimes platonic friends can do that, even if they're in relationships.  I told Toby who said 'Good.  I'm sure it helped him.'

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As a cishet man, I have never had much luck creating strong relationships with other men. I had one strong friendship with another guy in high school and one in college. I think this stems from me spending all of high school struggling with how to handle my illness on a day to day basis. There were stretches where I wanted to die every single day, and it just wasn’t something I could talk to another male about and expect it to be productive. I think once I established that pattern i just acclimated to it and have been mostly friends with females ever since. I also think it was harder to form friends with guys in high school because I wasn’t involved in any sports, which is where lots of the macho bonding starts.

it was also a two-way street. Female friends were/are more open to reciprocation and sharing their own experiences (in my experience, not necessarily a blanket statement) and that made relationships easier for me. Of course, this did lead to one or two unhealthily co-dependent relationships, but that’s another matter  

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Oh God Cerberus, I wish they could be easily debunked. I'd be a much better person and a better friend. Skeptical about everything except my own bullshit. Where;s the evidence? Tribalism with those women. Women are equal which means they can be equally stupid as men.

4 hours ago, Cerberus said:

“Well! Now you know what it’s like to be a woman!”

Right. OK. You're doing the same shit in an opposite direction. While some guys might need a taste of their own medicine I see you as an intelligent and impartial guy. While women have a lot to justifiably complain about the goal should be men and women and not men vs women. I was watching a clip on YouTube before. An older black woman watching a stand-up, and I thought, "I like you", and sense of humour is a better way to judge someone than anything else. There's so many ways to divide ourselves but if you laugh at monty python you're in my gang. Join my gang! We can annoy people with our silly walks. Everyone welcome except bigots. Bigots have no damn sense of humour. Hitler didn't have any punch lines. Did you hear the one about the Jew who waka waka. The Nuremberg rally collectively pissed themselves over that gag. Nah they didn't, and that's what was wrong with the nazis. Along with a lot of other things. Not sure if I'm sounding disrespectful or just dark. I read Primo Levi's If this is a man  at school and I felt that very deeply, though I'm not Jewish myself. Might have mentioned having a foreskin before, because I often provide far too much information about things which nobody is interested in. Like I'm doing now. I'll shut up. What was the question?

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Ah what am I talking about? Absolutely no reason to mention the holocaust, and it's worrying because that's something which I've thought about too much in the past when I feel really low. I don't think I'm there but it's been difficult to make much sense of my mood recently. One of the difficulties of talking about mental health issues is that you have to make sense of it first. It doesn't always make sense. Explain something which seems ridiculous even to you. Could be worse, could be a scientologist. So there was this volcano, and Commander Xenu. Sounds great brah! Who do I sign the check out to? There's a TV show called Ancient Aliens which is in it's 16th season. I'm crazy? 16 seasons of that crap. Frightening how crazy the sane people are. People who are really crazy don't know that they're crazy, and maybe people with a mental illness are just those who are sane enough to realise that they're crazy. Yeah that's probably bollocks, but you see these "sane" people acting in ways which are far from rational, but they get up for work in time and are able to function normally in human society, so I guess they must be sane. Not necessarily rational but sanity is just statistical. I've gone way off topic. And I started it.

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3 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

One of the difficulties of talking about mental health issues is that you have to make sense of it first.

I would submit that talking about it is a big part of how you make it make sense.

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