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I have quite recently become more aware of transgender people. I'm cool with all that. I'm a man but fuck knows what that means. There is so much shit around this subject. I responded to this youtube comment which said that less than 50 transexual people were killed last year, which is less than the number of black women killed. But both of those fucking statistics are a problem. It doesn't make it fucking OK if it's fucking less another statistic. So fuck you! Or words to that effect. There is a lot of prejudice against trans people. TERFs. A vocal minority of cunts. I have yet to meet a TERF who I like. Most trans people seem charming. I know I'm a cis male who shouldn't get involved in this but you can lick my taint if you say they aren't real women. Fuck you in the ear. Try being nice you fucking dick.

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So let's discuss the ways I went wrong with this post. My intentions were good. Maybe my first mistake was choosing the title "Fuck em to death". Which in hindsight was a bit bold. It didn't really convey the tone of the post as I intended it. And the other thing which went wrong was everything I said. Cunts and dicks and fucking people in the ear. I'm so eloquent. I am an ally, though probably not the sort of ally you want.

Edited by Fluent In Silence
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Flue. I have to take you to task for the vocabulary used in this post, because not only was it wrong, you used in in cases repeatedly. Every time I came across one of them it drew me up sharply, leaving me with a strong feeling that someone should say something to correct you, in case you don’t fully realize your offense. That person would appear to be me.

On 11/12/2021 at 3:39 PM, Fluent In Silence said:

I responded to this youtube comment which said that less than 50 transexual people were killed last year, which is less than the number of black women killed

“...said that fewer than 50 [...] which is fewer than the number”

On 11/12/2021 at 3:39 PM, Fluent In Silence said:

I have yet to meet a TERF who I like

...whom I like.

You’re English. It’s in the name, for fucksake.

(You might also rethink some of the ... shall we say, ‘earthy’ expressions that are a hallmark of your style when writing in relation to topics about our Trans brothers and sisters - it’s an aspect of discussion that requires some diplomacy, and sometimes we do them better service by asking them questions than by making statements of support on their behalf.)

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15 hours ago, Cerberus said:

Flue. I have to take you to task for the vocabulary used in this post, because not only was it wrong, you used in in cases repeatedly. Every time I came across one of them it drew me up sharply, leaving me with a strong feeling that someone should day something to correct you, in case you don’t fully realize your offense. That person would appear to be me.

“...said that fewer than 50 [...] which is fewer than the number”

...whom I like.

You’re English. It’s in the name, for fucksake.

(You might also rethink some of the ... shall we say, ‘earthy’ expressions that are a hallmark of your style when writing in relation to topics about our Trans brothers and sisters - it’s an aspect of discussion that requires some diplomacy, and sometimes we do them better service by asking them questions than by making statements of support on their behalf.)

Erm yeah. There was a lot wrong with how I expressed myself, although nobody says 'whom' in spoken language. Common usage is 'who', but let's not get into a fight over proper English. I am English so I must be right. My anger and poor vocabulary was caused by the bullshit arguments people use. Only 50 trans people were killed last year. Less than the number of black women killed. So talking about the prejudice against trans people is racist and misogynist. And I suppose the counter argument to that is go fuck yourself! That black women are being killed is a problem, but it doesn't make violence against trans people magically disappear. What sort of bullshit morality is that? If only more trans people were getting killed then I might care. Well fuck you! Bullshit arguments annoy me, hence my sweary post which has probably done nothing to improve tolerance of trans people.

There are a lot of bullshit arguments on this topic though. I don't know if it's an excuse for being a bigot or if they genuinely believe what they say. Trans women are men who want to invade female spaces. Yeah maybe, although when you hear about the struggle many of them go through that seems a bit unlikely. Not feeling normal, hating themselves for not feeling normal, trying to fit in by denying themselves, depression, anxiety, self-harm and suicidal thoughts. And then they transition and feel like themselves for the first time. And they went through all that just to use the female changing rooms? Who do I believe? Some fucking idiot with an opinion which isn't based on anything, but the other people on mumsnet agree so it must be right. Or the stories of trans people and the fact that using female toilets or changing rooms doesn't make me even slightly tempted to undergo genital surgery? People are entitled to hold different opinions to me, and I respect that, but make some fucking sense. The fucking arrogance! I don't know what it's like to be trans, much like I don't know what it's like to be many things if they aren't male, white, heterosexual, weird, depressed and unfuckable. According to the TERF ideology trans people shouldn't exist. They fucking do! Expecting the world to conform to their definition. Fuck em to death.

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I'm not sure where you got that statistic from, but I assure you that there were far more than 50 at last year's vigil. Try 7 times that, and those are the ones which were actually counted. This year's vigil is yet to have happened, but if we're going by how it has always been, this year's number will be equally as horrific or even larger. 

Also, as a transman myself, I wouldn't only suggest that dicks not be involved, but say that fuck em to death as a whole is a useless retort for such a matter as transphobia and transphobic violence. Kindly keep all dicks and fucks to yourself and remember that the mere fact you even have one means you are taken far more seriously than the vast majority of transmen are. Your dick is an appendage, not an actual brain. Don't attempt to use it as one.  Keep it where it belongs. In your pants and to yourself. 

I'd also like to say that having an argument with a TERF about their ideology is an equally as useless way to try and get rid of such ideology and in trying to get them to stop forcing it upon us. The more attention you give a TERF, the more of a problem they become, because you are feeding them. Their ideology, like most forms of extremist ideology, is full of shit and ought to be treated as full of shit, not rational behaviour and discussion that is worthy of discussion and input. 

TERFs, or TERFy for the individual, as I like to call them, because they are that immature and deserving of such a moronic name, are not qualified to talk about trans people or the issues we face in our lives. Whilst they claim to be experts, the only area they have expertise in is being a bunch of incessant twits with an ego that is so inflated, its a wonder they don't blow away in the wind like a balloon. 

The TERF ought to be treated in such a manner. They are not an actual trans person, or a health professional who helps and treats actual trans people. Therefore, they are full of shit and shouldn't be given attention to fuel their full of shit ideology. 

Of course, what they are doing is wrong and harmful and the impact of it is significant. But dealing with it by giving them fuel is futile. Transphobia and transphobic violence are not things that should be ignored, but TERFs themselves, are. Coming at them with "fuck em to death" is useless. Especially as a man. Many of them are lesbians and men trying to come at them with their equally irrational dick based approach will and does just aggravate them. All of them claim to be feminists, and whilst that is clearly also inaccurate, it is not wise for a man to try and come at any feminist, especially not a radical one like TERFs. 

As a trans person, you learn to ignore them and do your best to just keep trying to get on with your own life. Transphobia is something we all have to face in our lives, unfortunately. But we do what we have to do to go on and depend on community and allies to actually deal with the issues we face and hope they will someday come to an end. That is the only choice we have. 

Yes, it is difficult and we endure a lot of hardship to be who we are. I've endured a heap of transphobia and transphobic violence in my life. My life is far from easy. I used to think that directly engaging with TERFs would cause them to stop bullying and harassing me once. It didn't. I had to believe I was worthy enough a man to deserve better and walk away and get on with managing my life so I can live. They won't listen and they don't care. You have to move on at some point, for yourself and your own life. 

Long story short, engaging with the TERFs doesn't help trans people or our community. It just adds fuel to the fire. Please don't try to fuck them to death as you say, because it is us who will get fucked, not the TERFs. As an ally, please do not feed the TERFs. Step away from the TERFs. And keep your dick to yourself. That's not what they are for. Thanks. 

There are plenty of ways you can actually help us and the community, if you are so inclined. Also, it would be wise of you to not mention that you recently became aware of us. Makes you look and sound like an idiot who walks around with his eyes intentionally closed. We've always been here. Your fault if you didn't notice, and for what its worth, we already know that most people choose to ignore us unless it is for malicious reasons, because you all have the choice to and to not be educated about us. So stating that your awareness is only recent does not help you or make you seem like much of a very good ally, even if you very much intend to be one. 

Just thought I'd let you know. 

 

 

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@Hopelessly BrokenI knew that trans people existed but I never really thought about them. I might have said this before but I was writing an essay on gender development, and that shit is complicated. Then I saw a story on the news about a woman who'd said that sex is immutable. Hang on. What? And since then I've been poking my stupid fucking nose into this issue, whether anyone wants me to or not. My intentions are good. And I'm not trying to be the wokest woke person in the woke world. I have some opinions which probably aren't PC and I tend to say cunt a lot. I've never been called a snowflake, and that's probably due to my potty mouth. None of this is relavant. What the fuck am I talking about? Anyway, it is essentially bullshit arguments which fucking annoy me. Heterosexual cis male. Well homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. What! No it fucking isn't. And I don't even know what TERFs believe about transgender people. They're just trying to annoy JK Rowling or something. Fucking horseshit. Just admit that you don't know what gender means and try not to be a cunt. I don't know whether the statistic of 50 is accurate. It did come from a fuckwit. I'm trying to be a good person but I'm fucking it up badly. Ignore my words, my intentions are better than my words. I'm "different" and I feel sympathy for anyone who is different too.

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1 hour ago, Fluent In Silence said:

@Hopelessly BrokenI knew that trans people existed but I never really thought about them. I might have said this before but I was writing an essay on gender development, and that shit is complicated. Then I saw a story on the news about a woman who'd said that sex is immutable. Hang on. What? And since then I've been poking my stupid fucking nose into this issue, whether anyone wants me to or not. My intentions are good. And I'm not trying to be the wokest woke person in the woke world. I have some opinions which probably aren't PC and I tend to say cunt a lot. I've never been called a snowflake, and that's probably due to my potty mouth. None of this is relavant. What the fuck am I talking about? Anyway, it is essentially bullshit arguments which fucking annoy me. Heterosexual cis male. Well homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. What! No it fucking isn't. And I don't even know what TERFs believe about transgender people. They're just trying to annoy JK Rowling or something. Fucking horseshit. Just admit that you don't know what gender means and try not to be a cunt. I don't know whether the statistic of 50 is accurate. It did come from a fuckwit. I'm trying to be a good person but I'm fucking it up badly. Ignore my words, my intentions are better than my words. I'm "different" and I feel sympathy for anyone who is different too.

thank you

 

gave me an "in" to ask @gearhead to update this outdated line

 

it was probably ok 20 odd years ago when written

Screenshot_2021-11-14_10-07-35.png

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12 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

According to the TERF ideology trans people shouldn't exist. They fucking do!

According to the Flue ideology people who use “whom” in spoken English shouldn’t exist. I fucking do! (You see, it’s this kind of attitude that gives the English people a poor reputation - ask any Scotsman.)

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43 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

According to the Flue ideology people who use “whom” in spoken English shouldn’t exist. I fucking do! (You see, it’s this kind of attitude that gives the English people a poor reputation - ask any Scotsman.)

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1356800/queen-elizabeth-I-news-baths-queen-elizabeth-II-prince-charles-royal-family-latest-ont

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20 hours ago, DogMan said:

gave me an "in" to ask @gearhead to update this outdated line

 

it was probably ok 20 odd years ago when written

 

Consider it done. Although, however venerable CB may seem in internet years, we aren't 20 years old quite yet. I, however, was here for the writing of these things and wrote some of them (not this one) myself. God, I'm getting old...

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This really was a poor way to express myself and it's been bothering me. I was a bit drunk and didn't mean any of that literally. Deliberately over the top but it didn't cross my mind that most TERFs are women. Most of the bigots I rant about are men, and it's OK to talk like that about men because it's "cheeky". No, it's still rubbish isn't it? Don't disagree with me or I'll sexually assault you. That's just not a good way to talk. I've been watching too much Frankie Boyle and Roast Battle. I did the same thing when discussing sexual violence against women. The things I'd do to men who sexually assualt women. Hello! Brain here! Do you think that maybe talking about fist fucking rapists is maybe, ya'know, fucking idiotic and insensitive or something? Well this is a sensitive and complex issue, maybe "Fuck em to death" is a good title. Oh God! I'm an idiot. I don't mean a word of it. I don't think it's even possible to fuck someone in the ear. Just a way of expressing how pissed off it makes me. A bad way. I'll try not to do it again. My intentions were good. Put that on my fucking gravestone.

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15 minutes ago, Fluent In Silence said:

Most of the bigots I rant about are men, and it's OK to talk like that about men because it's "cheeky".

The bigoted men you rant about aren't being cheeky, they're being arseholes. Sometimes you have to speak to someone in a language they understand. The trick is to do it in such a way that it doesn't legitimize and encourage their own behavior. While you're right to realize that writing for a broader audience probably calls for a more refined approach, there is a time and a place for calling an arsehole what he is. You are not de facto insensitive simply for thinking in certain terms; the fact that you're distressed about it suggests the opposite.

Personally, I very much discourage self-censorship in writing, at least at the stage of initial drafts. Say what you're going to say, the way you would say it if you were speaking it to someone. Then, go back and read it over, consider your audience, and adjust as necessary, but don't compromise your meaning, or your style any more than necessary to convey your point. It is not necessary for everyone to agree with you. It is not necessary for everyone to approve of your words or to like them, or for that matter, you. Your psyche may be screaming that yes! yes! they must all love me or it proves I'm a worthless piece of shite! but no, it doesn't. Your worth lies in your ability to see the world from a unique perspective and share that perspective in a way others can understand. If it makes them uncomfortable, if it makes them - God forbid - think, then good for you.

The age in which we live is, in my opinion, politically oversensitive. While some absolutely necessary social changes are underway to correct unjust and unsustainable imbalances of power along racial, ethnic, gender, and socioeconomic lines, a significant and counterproductive overcorrective backlash is occurring in terms of cultural censorship and the quashing of free expression. I believe that the overall limitation and sequestering of language on the basis of extreme political sensitivity can only ultimately be harmful to the very marginalized communities now exercising it; the suppression of ideas expression can all too easily be applied to any idea or expression. I cannot promise this community how long Crazyboards will endure as an institution, but I can promise that as long as we do, we will be a forum where people may speak freely without fear of treading a political minefield. This is a place where latitude is granted for the fact that we are all imperfect. We do not tolerate hate and abuse, but we also discourage the taking of offense and the holding of grudges. Say what you need to say, with no malice in your heart, and all will be well. If necessary, you may apologize later, and it will be accepted.

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I agree with what you say. Sunlight is the best disinfectant as someone once said. Cancel culture is exaggerated but there is some truth to it. The first example I remember of this was a British historian who denied the holocaust and had his talk at a university cancelled. And the guy's obviously a fucking moron, but why not let him speak and then destroy his bullshit opinion? Freedom of speech means that people can say whatever they want, and it also means that I can tell them they're an arsehole. Cancelling people gives them some legitimacy to other fuckwits. But on the other hand this guy denies that the holocaust happened. What is to be gained from listening to him speak? And when people moan about "cancel culture" I think that maybe you're just a dipshit with nothing worthwhile to say. The holocaust didn't happen, the world is flat. Some topics aren't worth debating so fuck off. I saw something about how birds went extinct years ago, and Barak Obama replaced them with robots to spy on everyone. That must be a joke right? I don't know.

But that really was a bad way to express myself. I do have more intelligent thoughts about the gender debate than fucking people in the ear. And I do take the prejudice that trans people face seriously. I didn't manage to express any of this by saying fuck em to death.

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Cancel Culture is an overreaction in that it treats every aspect of the person who speaks the thing that offends as equally offensive. Take J.K. Rowling - for years, she enthralls the world with her richly imagined world of Harry Potter; she is celebrated for it. Then we learn that she has a stance on transgender issues that many find offensive. The Cancel Culture solution is to boycott Hogwarts. Rowling has been outed as a 'horrible person', therefore her works must all be equally stained and untouchable.

I very recently read an essay by some guy expressing that he hoped his children never read anything by Roald Dahl, the author of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, The Twits, and a number of other children's books, because he had expressed antisemitic ideas. The essayist's conclusion is that every utterance of Dahl must therefore be condemned. Sorry, Charlie.

Bill Cosby, notoriously convicted for his assaults on women, was at one time beloved for his approachable humor, and every child of the 70s at some point had watched Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids, a relatively wholesome program on Saturday morning cartoons. Now that Cosby has been revealed as a sexual predator, we're expected to watch every scene of Fat Albert as though there's a sexual predator lurking in the background.

So, there they stand accused, in the Dock: Harry, Charlie and Albert. What is your verdict? Off with their heads? Erase them forevermore, never to be seen or heard from again?

Human beings are hugely complex creatures. We're made up of good parts and bad parts. Some people have a lot more good parts than bad; some people have way more bad parts than is acceptable and we have to do something about them. But Cancel Culture takes people and judges them solely by their bad parts as though that's all they are, and judges anything they've made, done or said as equally bad by comparison. It's simply a form of shunning, the social act of punishment by ignoring an individual and treating him or her as if nonexistent. When practiced in groups on an individual level, it is a particularly cruel, psychologically damaging, and, in largely counterproductive means of changing behavior and limiting influence.

Actually, Cancel Culture is best seen not as a judgment on the accused, but as a statement about those who make the complaint - their grievances, their pain, and the injustice they may be experiencing. Focusing the energy on the offender, who, let's be frank, isn't likely to be much affected by the 'canceling', isn't as effective a strategy as pointing the attention the other way. The suppression of discussion of unpopular ideas doesn't make the ideas disappear; it just buries them to surface later. Sometimes the greatest good is to be found in the comparison of the contrast between the good and the bad. Cancel Culture, if consulted at the time, would no doubt have made every effort to make sure Mein Kampf was never published. Thankfully, we can still find it, and learn to recognize when something truly must be cancelled.

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On 11/15/2021 at 12:57 AM, Cerberus said:

Human beings are hugely complex creatures. We're made up of good parts and bad parts. Some people have a lot more good parts than bad; some people have way more bad parts than is acceptable and we have to do something about them.

True. I sometimes think that political correctness is too judgemental. Let's build a better and kinder world through political correctness. Someone said something wrong! Kill them! They have no place in our perfect world. It's not all bad though. I remember someone in a class I took saying that being unable to say "Paki" was oppressing white people. No, Paki is offensive (In the UK at least. George W. Bush once talked about the Pakis in a speech. But he was "special". Because it suggests they're all the same for people who have a poor grasp of geography and history. I'm broadly in favour of political correctness where it means not being rude to people who are different to you. Be nice! I also like dark and non-PC comedians because I have a sense of humour, which some of these fuckers lack. Cancel culture has become a political thing though, and it should be about freedom speech. But when you want to say that the earth is flat, the Jews are alien lizards, or that Covid is a hoax, who wants to listen to such shit? Talking about cancel culture could be an intelligent discussion about the limits of free speech, but it's ruined by fuckwits. Black people are made of chocolate come to life and birds don't exist. There really is a conspiracy theory about birds not being real. Barak Obama replaced them with robots to spy on everyone. OK!. Don't know about black people being made of chocolate. Wouldn't surprise me these days and sound delicious anyway.

But back to trans people. Someone described it as being like a mental illness. Yeah maybe, but not how you mean? The idea that you can separate mental and physical. It's all in your head. Life just doesn't make sense as a whole, and the male/female question seems insignificant. Who knows and who cares? I've given up expecting everything to make sense, and that's a good thing. I don't know what it's like to be transexual, black, or a woman, but I can know that I don't know and try not to be a dickhead, because it's all uncertain and you don't know shit.

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On 11/13/2021 at 8:21 PM, Hopelessly Broken said:

There are plenty of ways you can actually help us and the community, if you are so inclined. Also, it would be wise of you to not mention that you recently became aware of us. Makes you look and sound like an idiot who walks around with his eyes intentionally closed. We've always been here. Your fault if you didn't notice, and for what its worth, we already know that most people choose to ignore us unless it is for malicious reasons, because you all have the choice to and to not be educated about us. So stating that your awareness is only recent does not help you or make you seem like much of a very good ally, even if you very much intend to be one. 

Harsh but very fair. I'm a white heterosexual cis male, and there's a lot of things which I don't need to think about because they don't affect me. It does sound pathetic to say that I've just heard about trans people and I'm on your side. Well done you! I probably haven't been as aware of black people and women in the past either. Because I'm a white male and everything is going fine. Nah it isn't. My life is a fucking mess. Though that's not to do with misogyny or racism. I read some books and met some people and women (joke!). I don't know if I can fit into the human race. Poor fucking me. I've never felt like I belong anywhere and, although it might be all in my head, I feel empathy for anyone who isn't "normal". But also the topic of gender has been of interest to me for a long time. What does it mean to be a man? Do I have to like the Fast and the Furious movies or something? I haven't seen any of them. I think there's been 9 of them. I think cars go brum brum and you get an erection or something. "Did you see that car do some shit!" Watching things explode is so much better than gaining a better understanding of the human condition. I am being sarcastic. I'm sorry I was late. It was nothing ideological, just never meeting trans people and never thinking about it. Now I'm more open minded and tend to talk about these things in a patronising way. It's awkward to talk about some things as a heterosexual cis male. As a heterosexual cis male I approve of trans people. And fuck you! No, I think a lot about what gender and sex mean and how they might overlap. Don't know. Hate people who think they know the answer, which includes TERFs. I'm a rubbish ally but I do make more sense when I'm sober, and I can back it up with facts. I don't like the term "ally" anyway. I'm on your side because human fucking decency.

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