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Crushes. Who do you find attractive?


Fluent In Silence
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I don't mean this to be any sort of pervy thread - "The buns on that!". Just wondering what people find attractive. I seem to hear more from women on this topic. Tom Hardy is either gorgeous or you don't see the appeal. Starting a tread like this could all go wrong if people start posting pictures of women in bikinis. Hubba hubba, and similar nonsensical vocalisations. I don't know if I'm strange in my taste in women. I tend to find who they are and what they do as attractive as how they look. I don't mean to suggest that I'm better than most men (although I probably am. It's not a high bar is it?). Sure I can see objectively that Kim Kardashian is attractive, but meh. Examples. I find Kristen Schall attractive. She has a face which shouldn't work but she's gorgeous. Not conventionally attractive but conventially attractive can go suck a dick. She's talented and funny and I think she looks beautiful. I know this sounds like some shit about how it's personality which counts rather than looks. Everyone is beautiful in their own way. No they aren't. I'm not, and it just seems like some patronising shit that attractive people say. There's this advert on TV which is pissing me off. "I'm perfect the way I am." No you aren't. Nobody is perfect, and saying that just makes you sound like a narcissistic dickhead. I'm perfect. And what do your farts smell like? Anyhoo, all that shit aside, I am curious about who people find attractive, without mentioning specific body parts. My latest crush is Reba Meyers. She's a fucking kickass guitarist and singer in the band Code Orange. I'm not going to stalk her or anything like that. We're never going to be together. She just seems cool. Erm... Yeah there's a lot I could've expressed better.

 

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14 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

Hubba hubba,

I think people probably still say “hubba hubba” with the frequency that they say “23 skidoo”.

Which is not to say never… I can’t be the only person who occasionally says “23 skidoo.” Surely…

I do not form crushes on people. I never have since the very first time, as an adolescent, I realized I had an irrational attraction to a girl who noticed me no more than she would gum on the sidewalk. I immediately understood the fundamental absurdity of crushes at that point, and have never been bothered by one since.

This may be assisted by the fact that any time my mind has the effrontery ti entertain the notion of a relationship with someone, the Cerberus Little Wonder Analytic-O-Matic Positronic Brain’s AIRBAG (Automatic Invalidation Reminder Before Any Girl) deploys, forcibly reminding me that the idea of anyone finding me attractive is laughable. At best, a bizarre oddity best avoided; at worst, simply repellent.

Whether as a result of nearly a half-century of this thought process, or just because my Aspie brain doesn’t register the physical attributes, I don’t actually notice whether someone is attractive or not. It simply isn’t relevant, much as a person’s skin color often escapes my notice at first glance. I have, however, found myself strongly attracted to certain persons before I have seen them, or whom I have never actually seen - when they reveal what is in their brain.

What do I find attractive? A mind. The appearance is immaterial.

But even were I to find an attractive mind, I would not presume to act on the attraction. My experience of relationships has taught me that people are harmed simply by proximity to my negative energy, and while I may love deeply and permanently, the reverse is never the case. My burden of unrequited love is about as much as I can bear now.

 

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I have had multiple crushes in my life. They all ended in piles of dirt. These crushes were fragile rocks that I stood on. 

This is the experience of so called attractiveness that I have, or at least that is if you are referring to romantic and sexual attraction. Not a single person on Earth is either sexually or romantically attractive to me. 

Nor am I interested in being those to anyone else. I find the concept of attractiveness rather bizarre, to be quite honest.

Edited by Hopelessly Broken
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9 hours ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

I have had multiple crushes in my life. They all ended in piles of dirt. These crushes were fragile rocks that I stood on. 

This is the experience of so called attractiveness that I have, or at least that is if you are referring to romantic and sexual attraction. Not a single person on Earth is either sexually or romantically attractive to me. 

Nor am I interested in being those to anyone else. I find the concept of attractiveness rather bizarre, to be quite honest.

I was thinking of crushes as some sort of vague indication of what people find attractive. And attractiveness. The women I mentioned aren't the most attractive if you're a shallow prick, but it's more than looking pretty. And that sounds like a cruel thing to say because many people still judge women primarily by how they look. I don't mean to blow my own fucking adequetly sized trumpet. Boo!! God I don't know. I wasn't hoping for a parade of all the beautiful people. Bjork is gorgeous, and absolutely fucking insane. I like her a lot.

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Attractive is in fact such a vague term that it is almost redundant. There is romantic and sexual attraction, there is aesthetic attraction, there is whatever the fuck the term is for what leads us to befriend a person, there is intellectual attraction, and fuck knows how many other forms of so called attraction, all of them completely subjective. 

I could say, well, you know what I consider attractive? People minding their own business and not classing me as an alien for not having or being interested in romantic or sexual attraction, people who don't reduce me or others to their external, visible material physical appearance and consider me a fuck machine. People who don't measure their or others success in life by being in a relationship, marriage and reproduction. 

People who respect personal space. People who don't lie and manipulate. People who couldn't care less about social order and the redundancy and corruption of social heirarchy. People who don't just yap for the sake of yapping. 

But at the same time, is that really attractive, or is it just common decency? You know what I see when I see a person? A person. End of story. Couldn't care less what they look like, and what they look like is a piss poor means to assess their overall character. 

Everyone has sexual organs. Everyone also has the right to not be viewed as sexual organs or judged based on their sexual organs. Likewise for sex characteristics. Why are they supposed to be "attractive", and why does this "attractiveness" apply when it is completely irrelevant?

Walking down the street? Driving in a car? Doing errands? Why does whether or not someone is attractive matter at these times, and why is attractiveness something people look for at these times? Makes no sense. If a person tells you to fuck off for commenting on their sex characteristics during such times, good on them, and the person who did it deserves it. 

A lot of people, men especially, would say well, I can't help it if I see breasts or a dick and find it attractive and get horny. I think that is bullshit. True, one cannot control whom they are attracted to. They can however control their impulses so they aren't an unhinged sycophant. Having a sex drive and genitals is not an excuse to use them as a brain. They are not. 

However, I am aware that to most neurotypical people, this is an utterly bizarre and disturbing fact. Why, I will never know, and how lovely that is and the reality that it means I and all other men are bunched together as being potential rapists. 

That's my opinion on the matter of attraction and attractiveness. One of those things I will never understand.

Edited by Hopelessly Broken
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12 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

The women I mentioned aren't the most attractive if you're a shallow prick

I wasn't at all referring to you there Hopelessly Broken. You don't seem to have taken it that way and I'm probably just being paranoid. Just that I can sometimes be offensive when I don't intend to be.

 

10 hours ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

A lot of people, men especially, would say well, I can't help it if I see breasts or a dick and find it attractive and get horny. I think that is bullshit. True, one cannot control whom they are attracted to. They can however control their impulses so they aren't an unhinged sycophant. Having a sex drive and genitals is not an excuse to use them as a brain. They are not. 

True. Can't help how we feel perhaps but can definitely help how we act. Us men mostly. It can seem bizarre to me. What is so great about boobs? They look quite inconvenient when considered objectively. I didn't start this thread with the idea of people judging other people's physical attractiveness. I am attracted to women due to whatever accident of nature and nurture, and I know that talking about this can often go badly, especially when it's a man doing the talking. There is that part of my *ahem* brain, which responds to how women look, but that's just superficial and insignificant. When I say respond I don't mean wolf whistling or shouting obscene shit from a moving car. I do notice though. I'm not trying to sound all woke and enlightened by talking about how I only judge someone by their personality. Yeah you like Kristen Schaal because she's funny and talented. Just because of that is it? I do tend to find intelligent and talented women attractive, although it helps if they also look good because I'm just a man at the end of the day. I'm still an arsehole really. But Kim Kardashian? What is the fucking point of her? She's someone else's idea of attractive.

So starting this thread was probably a bad idea. Although I was hoping for a more intelligent conversation about what is appealing about someone than a guy saying "I like her! Her tits are massive!" Which would be the response on much of the internet, but not here. I was trying to be more mature in asking who people have a crush on. Women who are funny and intelligent and have massive tits do it for me. Sorry. I couldn't help myself. This is why I'm single. Although I'm not sure if it's because of my awful personality or my awful face. Yeah maybe this was a bad idea. I was sort of hoping for stuff like "I like him because he seems so nice and considerate" rather than "He has such a juicy arse". Yep, I was trying to be inclusive there. Sometimes I'm glad I'm not gay because imagine being on the receiving end of male sexuality! I remember this guy who said something like "It's my 35th birthday today, which makes me about 80 in gay years." He was gay himself. Obviously. Weird thing to say otherwise.

Oh fuck it! I did start this thread with the idea of talking about what people find attractive in a grown up and mature way. I don't know if it's possible to talk about attractiveness without mentioning appearance. "He has a great sense of humour and a massive cock". It is weird. I was talking to someone who is bisexual. Imagine that! Liking someone for who the are rather than because of their genital configuration. So weird! But it's us "normal" heterosexuals who are the weird ones when you think about it.

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49 minutes ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

Of course it is possible to talk about attractiveness in the absence of appearance.

That's something I want to learn about! We're good aren't we? Hopelessly Broken? You've pointed out what horseshit I'm talking a couple of times. And you're probably right. I'm trying but probably doing things wrong. I am trying.

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14 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

I don't mean to blow my own fucking adequetly sized trumpet.

You might want to rephrase that. It could be… misconstrued… to suggest that you’re unusually flexible.

Our society has arrived, in my view, at a rather awkward phase during its needed transition away from a heterosexual-caucasian-male dominated paradigm to one with greater social parity. The need to call out boorishness, sexism, misanthropy and sexual objectification has resulted in a hypersensitivity to any expression of attraction based on physical features, and cast it negatively in woke terms. I was listening to Christmas music yesterday, and contemplating the unsubtle innuendo of the lyrics of “Santa Baby” in this context. In 1953 when it was written, it might have been cheekily racy but inoffensive; today, the call to “hurry down the chimney tonight” might provoke outrage among some and activate the engines of Cancel Culture.

The thing is, however, that human beings as a species are highly dependent upon vision in general, and highly dependent (though not exclusively so) on visual cues to direct them in most aspects of sexual relationship to others, beginning with the selection of potential partners. As @Gearhead mentioned in a reply above, smell is also an important factor in attraction, but by and large humans don’t initially  seek out sexual partners by smell. The eye provides a wealth of important information about potential genetic compatibility, even if we’re not conscious of what we’re seeing.

Why are men apparently hard-wired to favor larger bust size? It boils down to a calculation that our animal brain makes concerning optimizing survivability for potential offspring. Bigger breasts = greater potential nutritional availability for babies to be healthy and survive. Why do men generally gravitate toward curvier hips? Same calculation: A broader female pelvic structure allows for decreased odds of complications in childbirth and infant mortality. Women are attracted to certain masculine traits for the same reasons, that they signal likely reproductive and survivability success. These aren’t front-of-the-brain cognitive processes, they’re baked in from 50,000 years of natural selection, and we don’t experience them as a sense of rational, practical observation - we experience them as attraction. When our animal brain comes across an individual whom it believes tics all the boxes, we may experience it as a crush.

The principle still works among homosexuals too, by the way. The part of the animal brain that makes calculations based on secondary sexual characteristics does not appear to be concerned about a reproductive mismatch with the subject in view, because the person doing the viewing is not viewing from the point of view of a standard sexual role.

For these reasons, I am generally not affronted when people honestly express their attraction to another person’s physical features, and am not on board with automatically condemning all male appreciation of the female form as objectification. Without it, we would not have Botticelli’s The Birth of Venus, or Ives’ Undine Rising From The Waters, or the Venus de Milo. But, to be fair, I do have a tendency to put ladies on a pedestal.

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6 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

That's something I want to learn about! We're good aren't we? Hopelessly Broken? You've pointed out what horseshit I'm talking a couple of times. And you're probably right. I'm trying but probably doing things wrong. I am trying.

It is probably my fault that I didn't mention that my point is that attractiveness is dependent upon our brain wiring, and much like Cerberus states why those who are sexually attracted to physical features are, another component is that for a neurotypical brain, socialising is largely driven by the limbic system and, as I stated, for the neurotypical brain, the main function of socialising and relationships is conformity to social heirarchy, whether that is done consciously or not. 

And who is the highest rank in society's heirarchy? Men. Especially white cisgender, straight men like yourself. Men act the way they do because society lets them. Everyone else acts the way they do because they are lesser than them in the social heirarchy. Children are taught to respect their elders without free thought for the same reason, because they are small and considered less than in the social heirarchy. Such is their place in society. 

Other than this, the neurotypical brain's communication is driven by reassurance, validation from others and reciprocity. This is reflected in both the ways the vast majority of neurotypical people communicate, and in their social behaviour and level of social interest, and social needs. 

These things together (i.e what Cerberus mentioned, the fact that socialising is limbic and driven by conformity to social heirarchy, reassurance, validation and reciprocity) is why a neurotypical is more driven to vague concepts like attractiveness, and it is also why they don't consider that their behaviour and actions is ironically getting them nowhere or needs to be changed. 

It is why they are less likely to think about their behaviour and actions before doing them, question their usefulness etc. Neurotypicals are not used to being told that they are wrong, because they are also a majority in the social heirarchy, and to them, conforming to it is acceptable and appropriate, as is being driven by the limbic system and its profound irrationality and impulsivity. 

I have found that it is rare for neurotypicals to reflect upon and develop understanding towards their own brain functions and what drives them, their behaviour, their actions etc. And yet they accept them, and not only that, they are what is acceptable in that heirarchy outright, to the point that autistic people are a lesser and defective to many of them. Even not human. 

They expect us to understand them. Why should we, when not even they do? I've been told many a time that I don't "get" the needs and intentions of neurotypical people, and have literally almost lost my life because of it. And, you know what, sometimes I don't "get" it. 

But I am very much aware of it and its functions. Apparently even more than they are. 

Now, I am not saying that one has control over how their brain functions and what certain functions are driven by. I am not saying that the way they do things in this manner is necessarily wrong.

But when's the last time a deep analysis of it was done? When was the last time a lot of neurotypicals performed metacognition upon themselves? When was the last time they really looked at themselves and realised they are not just a meatsuit and therefore maybe, just maybe, it isn't very wise to act as one and let their genitals and sex characteristics serve as something they are not. 

And that maybe it ain't such a great idea, or really any kind of idea, to base someone else off of material, physical features. After all, it isn't our physical features that makes us a person or that makes up our individual character and personality. 

And is it physical, sexual features that maintain a human connection in the long term, no. It is not. Life isn't about sex and babies. Sure, you could have a good time with a person that you merely have sex with. And for some, that is sufficient. But will that give you a long term, thriving relationship and a lasting connection that lets you know that person is there for you, and that they truly accept you for who you are unconditionally? If that is what you are looking for, then maybe next time you see a lady, see her as a person, not a pair of breasts and an ass. 

After all, would you like it if ladies constantly viewed you as nothing but your penis? Really. Your penis and limbic system might lead you to say yes, because it feels good, and society will say that is what you are supposed to do. Those are not facts, however. And only you, with your brain, can come to the right conclusion as to whether or not that is really what you are looking for and need in life. 

I guess what it comes down to is actually making assessment of what this kind of behaviour achieves in the long-term, as opposed to "fuck yeah it feels nice" or trying to get immediate validation or reciprocity without considering whether either are actually useful. This seems to be another thing that neurotypicals struggle with. 

 

 

Edited by Hopelessly Broken
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4 hours ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

After all, would you like it if ladies constantly viewed you as nothing but your penis? Really. Your penis and limbic system might lead you to say yes, because it feels good, and society will say that is what you are supposed to do.

I hope you don't think of me like that. Would I like it if ladies contantly viewed me as nothing but my penis? Honestly no I wouldn't, although I think a lot of men would be very happy with that. No I want something more than boobies and all that shit. You sound like an intelligent person. I know I've sometimes blundered into issues like autism and being transgender, smacking people in the face with my good intentions. Cerberus has corrected me about a lot of things to do with autism - take your good intentions and shove them up your arse. I can't remember if you used those words but that was the sentiment. Message recieved and understood. Yeah I am ignorant and annoying sometimes. But my intentions are good!

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