Bruno the Brake Car and Penny Polar Bear

[Fluent In Silence]

There were a couple of stories in the week about children's TV shows. Firstly, the show Thomas and Friends is going to feature a character with autism called "Bruno the Brake Car", who will be voiced by a 9-year-old who is autistic.

Seems like a good thing. Lots of misunderstanding about autism. In the article I read about this in the writer said that she used to think of autistic people as being "socially awkward, rude, white men on the brink of genius", like the character from Rain Man. Then she was diagnosed with autism. Probably a lot of people automatically think of Rain Man when they hear autism. I know I used to.

The other story was about Peppa Pig introducing a character called "Penny Polar Bear" who has lesbian parents.

Seems sweet, although that's not a very flattering way to talk about her other mummy. One is a doctor and the other cooks spaghetti. Having a same-sex couple on a children's TV show has predictably caused a backlash from the usual dickheads moaning about "the Gay agenda". They're trying to brainwash our children! Oh fuck off! The only thing that ever worried me about gay parents was how other people would react. Remember what kids were like? I don't know if "gay" is still used like an insult but someone with gay parents would've been picked on when I was at school. Things have changed a lot. A gay couple in a children's show would've been unthinkable not so long age.

[Fluent In Silence]

I mean ...

Do these people have any self-awareness? Obviously not. GAY PIGS ARE GOING TO DESTROY THE WORLD! It's so funny but then you realise that some people believe this shit.

[Hopelessly Broken]

What a great source of representation that first one is. Not human and one of the most common stereotypes there is about autism. Should have voiced it using a robot to top it off. Fling me into the fucking oblivion with a catapult. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Hopelessly Broken

[basuraeuropea]

35 minutes ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

What a great source of representation that first one is. Not human and one of the most common stereotypes there is about autism. Should have voiced it using a robot to top it off. Fling me into the fucking oblivion with a catapult. 

i don't get it. you don't like the way the thomas and friends autistic character is portrayed? it looked pretty positive to me. wholesome story with an autistic kid voicing the new character.

[DogMan]

17 hours ago, Fluent In Silence said:

I don't know if "gay" is still used like an insult but someone with gay parents would've been picked on when I was at school.

FWIW I wasn't. I'm 43

 

My friends thought 2 mums was cool

[Hopelessly Broken]

53 minutes ago, basuraeuropea said:

i don't get it. you don't like the way the thomas and friends autistic character is portrayed? it looked pretty positive to me. wholesome story with an autistic kid voicing the new character.

It isn't a person, its a bloody vehicle. A vehicle can't be autistic. And one of the most stereotypical views of autism is a white boy who is obsessed with trains. The only way that could have been more stereotypical is by using a robot to voice the character or by editing the kid's voice to make it sound like a robot. 

[basuraeuropea]

19 hours ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

It isn't a person, its a bloody vehicle. A vehicle can't be autistic. And one of the most stereotypical views of autism is a white boy who is obsessed with trains. The only way that could have been more stereotypical is by using a robot to voice the character or by editing the kid's voice to make it sound like a robot. 

i have to give this an eye roll. along with a lesbian pig, this autistic train car character serves to bring diversity issues to light for the very youngest of children. i think both are quite well done.

Edited September 12, 2022 by basuraeuropea
a word

[Hopelessly Broken]

I don't care. If you don't understand why that is a problem, good for you. Autistic people are dehumanised constantly and this is just another example of that. 

[DogMan]

i worked with 2 year olds. And all the autists who were identified that early were obsessed with thomas the tank engine

 

 

[Hopelessly Broken]

That's not so much what I have a real problem with. Stereotypes exist for a reason. My problem is that the character is not a human and this is just another example of how autistics are viewed as not human or less than human because of it. They compare us to monkeys in research, at least monkeys have a brain, they use tactics designed for washing machines to try and cure us, not to mention the rest. Enough is enough. 

[DogMan]

there's not many humans in thomas. The fat controller, later called sir toppemhat. And the thin controller from the other line

 

scarlotti is a problem stereotype. The only red engine and portrayed as stereotype "fabulous" gay man

[Hopelessly Broken]

Right. It would be different if Thomas did have more humans and they decided to create an autistic child character that goes along with the train cart and told the audience that the train cart is a special interest for the autistic kid, and that it is why they go to that station, for example. That would be a more reasonable education opportunity for small children and a legitimate display of diversity. 

It would be teaching kids about what special interests are and showing autistic kids that they aren't the only ones out there. Great. This, yeah, no. 

[Hopelessly Broken]

But its worth noting that this is one of the things that NTs almost always hate about me. I have the rigidity trait rather dominantly and things are supposed to be exactly what they are and so forth.

My teachers hated me in school because I "lacked abstract imagination", and most people I have known IRL hated me because I have my specific way of doing things and so on. I remember being a 4-5 year old in preschool and not understanding why I got into trouble for drawing the sky how it actually looks and refusing to draw a tree because I didn't (and still don't, for what its worth) have the appropriate drawing skills to be able to. 

Or not understanding why people made fun of me when I didn't know if it was OK/if I was allowed to walk inside somewhere because there weren't any specific rules provided, as an autistic child.

The placements I had in foster care did have strict rules about how to enter, so that's why I didn't understand when places didn't. I was also severely shut off from the outside world, and was therefore not given any lessons or experience that such places exist, or about how to use them. People thought it was funny to bully me for it. I obviously did not. That was a problem that took me years to get a hold of even as an autistic young adult, after I aged out of foster care and entered what part of wider society I am able to access. 

So, yes, for me, this is a problem. I have experienced a lot of dehumanisation in my life because I am autistic, and unfortunately it is a very common experience, and it is, like I wrote, something that happens a lot in research and the services that are supposed to be there to help and support us. 

In general, to me, it makes no sense to have an autistic character that is not a human, and it would be that way even if the dehumanisation aspect was not involved. There is no such thing as an autistic vehicle. Sorry, not sorry.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Hopelessly Broken

[Fluent In Silence]

4 hours ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

In general, to me, it makes no sense to have an autistic character that is not a human, and it would be that way even if the dehumanisation aspect was not involved. There is no such thing as an autistic vehicle. Sorry, not sorry.

I can see where you're coming from but this is a children's show which is about anthropomophic neurotypical trains. Having an anthropomorphic autistic train isn't dehumanising in that context. If it is then it's also dehumanising to neurotypicals. Having gay polar bears doesn't mean that gay people are animals when the show is about a family of pigs. A lot of children's entertainment makes no damn sense unless you've taken a lot of drugs. The Brave Little Toaster. Haven't seen it but a fucking toaster? How stoned do you have to be to come up with shit like that?

Like I said, I used to have a lot of misconceptions about people with autism before actually meeting people who are on the spectrum. Probably still have a lot to learn, and I'm someone with a personal interest in mental health who is studying psychology. God knows what bullshit most people think. So promoting awareness and understanding seems like a good thing.

[Hopelessly Broken]

I don't know why the editor did that. I didn't ask it to make a whole new comment. Oh well. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Hopelessly Broken

[Hopelessly Broken]

Yeah, the difference is that neurotypical people aren't dehumanised for their neurology and how it makes them who they are as people. Otherwise I would agree with you. Also that flex really isn't one. Don't use it again. The mental health industry is a large part of our suffering and at this point all it has proven is that it can do anything but know what autism really is.

[DogMan]

5 minutes ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

anything but know what autism really is.

not a mental illness

 

sorry HB, i figured i'd spell that out, since it could be missed

[Hopelessly Broken]

Well, yes, that's certainly part of it. But also describing it at all. Its hard to put what I mean in words. The way it is described is very lacking in comparison to what autism actually is, and is like. Almost everything in the diagnostic criteria is clinically insignificant, either completely or because there isn't any proper detail, context and so forth. What it says it is supposed to do in regard to the levels, it epically fails at doing accurately. The assessments that are used and the way they are administered are both ridiculous and heinous simultaneously. And that's just to cover some of it.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Hopelessly Broken

[Fluent In Silence]

1 hour ago, DogMan said:

not a mental illness

I did actually wonder whether that would sound wrong. I once referred to autism as a mental illness and Cerberus corrected me. It's a difference rather than an illness. The mental health problems come from dealing with a neurotypical world. I wasn't sure what other words to use other than mental health. Mental differences? Neurodivergence? Probably would've been better.

[Hopelessly Broken]

Or.... What it is. Neurodevelopmental condition.

[Fluent In Silence]

47 minutes ago, Hopelessly Broken said:

Or.... What it is. Neurodevelopmental condition.

I didn't mean just autism though. I'm interested in those who are different because I'm pretty damn different myself. What's a good word for that? Different I suppose. I just used it twice in trying to explain myself so I guess that works.

[Hopelessly Broken]

Just now, Fluent In Silence said:

I didn't mean just autism though. I'm interested in those who are different because I'm pretty damn different myself. What's a good word for that? Different I suppose. I just used it twice in trying to explain myself so I guess that works.

Autism isn't the only neurodevelopmental condition. Neurodevelopmental condition is where ADHD, learning disabilities, intellectual disabilities, global development delays, motor and coordination conditions like tics and dyspraxia all belong. 

[Hopelessly Broken]

Depends what different means specifically. 

[Hopelessly Broken]

What is different? One of your eyes is square and has fluff coming out of it? You walk backwards or sideways? Your dick is on your anus instead of in the pubic area, and 1 of the testicles has parasites on it?

Your hair is naturally blue and grows upwards? 1 of your arms is actually a snake that blows kisses?

But seriously. Different has a lot of potential presentations. Even moreso for neurological and mental things, because they are a more complex area. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Hopelessly Broken

[DogMan]

The 3 founders of cb I think it was. Were all bp, epileptic and autistic and their preferred title was uber spaz

 

I find 3 different autists will favour 3 different titles 

 

The proper term for neurotypical is allistic https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/allistic

 

But they get called all manner of things 

[Hopelessly Broken]

I would only use allistic for someone who is otherwise neurodivergent (unless they told me different) but, yes, it tends to vary. That is something I would probably ask on an individual basis. 

[Cerberus]

From the look of the video, they seem to be taking some cues from the young voice actor in terms of how the character is portrayed, which I would call a plus, and, frankly, remarkably non-condescending for neurotypicals. The idea of actually letting a person with Autism interpret what it's like to be Autistic, one would think, isn't that novel a concept, yet we see it so rarely.

In terms of the stereotypicality of the portrayals, none of the characters in the Thomas franchise are particularly fleshed-out characters. They each epitomize a particular character trait, for the most part, or at least did in the initial run of the franchise (it has been 20 years since my kids insisted on watching it every. single. day. and listening to story tapes, and the theme song is still rattling around in my head). They weren't animation then, but actual objects. I suppose over time the characters may have evolved through story to have more fully realized characters, but that just gives an opportunity to provide a more rounded picture of what life is like with Autism. It just remains to be seen how accurate a portrayal it is.