Off-topic discussion about rohypnol

[Guest Guestxyz]

Helena asked in this thread for information/ experiences using rohypnol for anxiety.

an anonymous poster, posting behind a proxy, then responded with a ton of misinformation (including that paxil is "addictive") and an argument ensued.

the anon poster's misinformation led to members trying to correct the anon poster's slew of misinformation.

this derailed from Helena's original question. in order to redirect the original thread back to Helena's original question, i have moved all posts relating to the anon poster's misinformation to this thread.

feel free to correct away here.

official note from management: we do not take kindly to spreading misinformation, especially when the spreader is posting anonymously and seems to be attempting to cause trouble.

penny century

Helena, I would caution you against use of any of the "Z-drugs": zopiclone/eszopiclone(=lunesta), ambien/zolpidem. According to my information, although erratic, psychiatric side-effects (such as symptoms of psychosis) are (much?) more common then when you use regular benzodiazepines. I don't know about Sonata/zaleplon though.

Anyway, Rohypnol is for sleep. I don't know the particulars of your situation, but it seems a bad idea to use a sleep med for anxiety. I'd expect that most people tend to feel somewhat sedated (can help against anxiety, true) during the day. From a psychiatric and common sense point of view, don't use a sleep med during the day.

If you need something against anxiety, and you need something strong, Xanax tends to be effective. And particulary addictive too. Many people who use benzodiazepines against anxiety use klonopin/clonazepam/rivotril (basically the same). I don't have any sound evidence available, but for many people (not all !!) clonazepam remains effective for a long time, and no or very limited increases in dosage are necessary when time passes. But in general, your body will, on the short or long run, build up a tolerance against benzodiazepines. Therefore, it's a good idea to plan ahead, and plan for a situation when no benzodiazepine or other chemical will help against your anxiety. (Therapy ? change in life?) Xanax (except perhaps xanax XR) is more for short panic attacks. Clonazepam basically works throughout the day. You can take it once or twice a day. It has a long half-life, meaning that you will probably feel a rather steady effect during the day. Valium, Seroxat and Lorazepam are decent alternatives too.

More alternatives ? Paxil (antidepressant) is sedating, but it can be very addictive. Antipsychotics can help against anxiety too. Another alternative are barbiturates, but most doctors won't prescribe these anymore, for good reason. Soma/carisoprodol is a muscle relaxant (depending on where you live, you may or may not require a prescription, and you may not be able to get it in your country if it is not officially registered there, except by using internet pharmacies (not that I'm advocating the use of these!)) but it can also help against anxiety. In general, I would not recommend using any of the meds mentioned in this paragraph.

Well, I guess I'm done for now. There are more meds, but on the long run, for most people the benefit of benzodiazepines and other comparable meds turn out to be short lived.

[lemonflavor]

More alternatives ? Paxil (antidepressant) is sedating, but it can be very addictive.

Really?

[Sunshine]

There's a lot of misinformation in the responses to your post, Helena.

First of all, the "Z" drugs are not addictive. They can be habit-forming, which is entirely different than addictive. Benzos are physically addictive. If taken regularly, you will experience withdrawal symptoms. The higher the dose (or the more potent the benzo), the more severe the withdrawal symptoms. Benzos should never be stopped abruptly.

Ambien, while not addictive, has the potential for abuse. There's been a lot about this in the mainstream U.S. media lately. Teens are taking it at higher than prescribed doses and forcing themselves to stay awake (not hard to do - if you can get through the first 30 minutes, it doesn't knock you out). It has hallucinogenic effects when taken in this manner.

Habit-forming means that you are likely to experience a recurrence of symptoms (insomnia) upon discontinuation of the medication. With Ambien, this typically lasts no more than three days (or nights, I suppose). The "Z" drugs are no where near as "dangerous" as benzos when taken as prescribed. I've personally been on Ambien and/or Sonata (sorry... those are the U.S. trade names) for three years with no ill effects.

Finally, benzos are usually a poor choice of medication for insomnia for a variety of reasons. The primary one being that the sedation effect is usually transient. After adjusting to the med, it's not as likely to make you sleepy, though due to either it's chemical properties or potency, this does not appear to be the case for Rohypnol. In any case... I think there are a lot better options for you to consider before giving something like this a try.

Hope this info helps.

~Sunshine

[Guest Guestxyz]

Two things: in my post I mentioned Seroxat, but I really meant Oxezapam.

Sunshine, I do not wish to quarrel with you, but: I have personally felt the effects of zopiclone, which is about the same as eszopiclone/Lunesta. I found it to have addictive properties, more so than most of the benzodiazepines. I'm not aware of Sonata having addictive properties, I have never used it. I have tried Ambien, but it really didn't work for me.

Both with regard to habit-forming and addictive potential, I have found zopiclone stronger than the normal benzodiazepines. I know the official line is that the Z-drugs are not addictive, or not as addictive as benzodiazepines. I seriously doubt that. Of course, it also depends on the individual. I think that most people on the long run WILL build up a tolerance to these meds if they are used every day.

Talking about addiction: I have been on temazepam (benzo) for more than 6 months, and have not detected and habit-forming or addictive properties. When I don't take it for a few days, I have more trouble sleeping, but do not feel withdrawal/addiction symptoms. The same is true for clonazepam (used as a muscle relaxant).

To sum it all up: for most people it's true that they will build up a tolerance after using the Z-drugs for a long time. Whether it's faster or slower than with the benzodiazepines, I'll leave it up to you to come to a conclusion. But my main concern with regard to the Z-drugs is this: I have seen evidence that Ambiem (zolpidem) and Zopiclone (let's assume it's the same as Lunesta/eszopiclone) can lead to psychotic symptoms, more so than with most of the regular, not so strong, benzodiazepines. A lot of evidence about this problem with Ambien is easy to find. Comparable evidence with regard to Zopiclone is harder to find. I have read, however, that Zopiclone can cause a real psychosis, although it's rare.

[Dweii]

More alternatives ? Paxil (antidepressant) is sedating, but it can be very addictive.

Since when?

Found this on Wikipedia about Paxil being "addictive":

"Some drugs induce physical dependence or physiological tolerance - but not addiction - for example many laxatives, which are not psychoactive; nasal decongestants, which can cause rebound congestion if used for more than a few days in a row; and some antidepressants, most notably Effexor and Paxil, as they have quite short half-lives, so stopping them abruptly causes a more rapid change in the neurotransmitter balance in the brain than many other antidepressants. Many non-addictive prescription drugs should not be suddenly stopped, so a doctor should be consulted before abruptly discontinuing them."

Well, I guess I'm done for now. There are more meds, but on the long run, for most people the benefit of benzodiazepines and other comparable meds turn out to be short lived.

Can't agree with you there either. There have been situations where I've had the choice of either taking a Xanax or ending up hurting myself badly. Maybe even killing myself. Who knows.

Many people benefit from these medications for short-term or long-term anxiety.

BTW, Oxazepam was utterly useless for me. It's not very potent.

Finally, benzos are usually a poor choice of medication for insomnia for a variety of reasons. The primary one being that the sedation effect is usually transient. After adjusting to the med, it's not as likely to make you sleepy, though due to either it's chemical properties or potency, this does not appear to be the case for Rohypnol. In any case... I think there are a lot better options for you to consider before giving something like this a try.

Well, I've had some luck with Nitrazepam for occasional insomnia. But that's not indicated for anxiety, but as a pure sleep med.

If Rohypnol is specifically a sleep med, then there's obviously no point of it. But from what I know, it's also used for extreme anxiety. Google "flunitrazepam + anxiety". Found a lot on that.

Have you tried buspar? For a lot of people it seems to be relatively ineffective, but it might be worth a shot. I tried it for a little while, it worked okayish for me. I got insomnia like whoa, though so I had to stop.

I don't think I could take Buspar, since it messes around with your seratonin in an antidepressant similar type of way, doesn't it? Can't take antidepressants, so I assume Buspar wouldn't be good either.

[Velvet Elvis]

guestxyz: bad med advice posted from behind an anonymous proxy. That's one of the most sociopathic things I've seen around here in a long time. Congratulations.

[Sunshine]

Thanks, VE.

[Guest Llamanator]

Guest Zolofty: get lost and stop giving shit information. Anonymous proxies to keep spreading misinformation are a chickenshit way to try to get around your ban. You're an ass. Shoo.

(your body and brain can get used to Paxil and can have trouble adjusting to being without it. can have a nasty withdrawal syndrome. not really a med with abuse potential)

Helena, I'm a USer who doesn't know much about Rohypnol, but I have found that temazepam, which is typically used only for sleep, does better at quelling bad anxiety attacks than clonazepam or even gabapentin (unless in sufficiently large doses). So you might have good luck with it, as long as you're ready to manage it well.

[Guest Guestxyz]

I consider the actions taken after I posted honest, although imperfect information, as a sign that I'm not wanted here. It's not as if i'm doing this for myself. So I'll be gone.

Bye.

[~nestling~]

I took Zopiclone prn for some months (prior Remeron) and had no problems whatsoever with it. No side effects, no trouble coming off it.

[tallulah]

i take zopiclone as well - ive had absolutely no issues with it either. the only side effect ive experienced is a fucking horrible taste in my mouth in the morning - like i ate a huge bowl of potent caesar salad the night before.

tal

[Dee]

I take Imovane, which is zopiclone. I can take it one night and not take it the next. I am tolerant to benzos and find them habit-forming but have never had a problem with zoplicone (I had it before years ago). It helps me sleep but I have no urge to reach for it like smarties like I do with valium.

[sepia]

I've taken Rhovane/Imovane/zopiclone in combination with Seroquel for occasional otherwise-unmanageable insomnia. I refuse to take it except when I am about to claw my eyeballs out of my fucking bed from sleeplessness due to the HORRIBLE taste I have in my mouth the ENTIRE NEXT DAY. It tastes like air is poisonous. I don't want to breathe. I can't drink plain old water because it carries the taste (not good, for someone on lithium), and end up consuming massive quantities of sugary juice products. Honey gets rid of the taste temporarily -- and that is straight honey from the comb or jar, not honey-flavored throat drops or the like. The med works, though. I sleep. No hangover to speak of. Just that awful, awful taste.

[Velvet Elvis]

I consider the actions taken after I posted honest, although imperfect information, as a sign that I'm not wanted here. It's not as if i'm doing this for myself. So I'll be gone.

Bye.

Take the fact that you're banned and have been for over a year as a sign that you're not wanted here. Bye.