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i know you said no meds... but what meds do you take, and when? sometimes a small dose of a stim in the evening can help people with ADD sleep. i know i sleep better when i take my ADD meds, and i take adderall xr in the am and a smaller dose of ir in the afternoon. i'm not the only one. but, a smaller dose than what you take in the morning...

i understand the mind racing ADD thing. which is why my anxiety got better when i started taking stims. sounds counter intuitive to some, but hey, whatever works.

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i know you said no meds... but what meds do you take, and when? sometimes a small dose of a stim in the evening can help people with ADD sleep. i know i sleep better when i take my ADD meds, and i take adderall xr in the am and a smaller dose of ir in the afternoon. i'm not the only one. but, a smaller dose than what you take in the morning...

i understand the mind racing ADD thing. which is why my anxiety got better when i started taking stims. sounds counter intuitive to some, but hey, whatever works.

I just recently started taking meds again after a nasty fall...take 126. Started geodon, and getting ready for a mood stabilizer. I really need to take my meds slow. The last time, take 125, I started a lot of meds close together; concerta, seroquel, abilify, effexor, ambien, paxil...etc. So I decided the skip the stimulants until I get psychosis and mood cycling under control; which is the main reason why I should find remedies. But as soon as I get med complient, I will most definitely take that advice. Very much appreciated.

There is somthing else you could try but I don't want to bring it up in polite company.

Even with a feeling of intimidation...I must ask...*shivers* what might that be?

Monster

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I could say something, but then again i may be ostrosized.

I HAVE the same problem, for the last five years i've let the doctors decide the meds, no more. Their are many things that calm the mind, herbs drinks and natural psychoactives, there i said it.

unfortunately for me meditation, qi jong, and other mindset techniques have not worked for me, for it is hard to concentrate when your mind goes and goes and goes.

well anyway, i've broken down to one suggestion from a doc, i use valium now. It doesn't get rid of the "noise" it just slows it down and makes it easier to ignore. I average 2-4 hours sleep per day (or less) and most people don't get that my mind is busy the entire time.

Just to make myself feel better, i tell people my mind thinks multidimensionally. Joking around ofcourse, til one p'doc' said that's probably not too far from the truth.

if i'm of no help, it's because in my mind i'm thinking about algebra class, gardening, farming, weather, my gf's location, this weekends activities, my latest idea + starting my small business and details. (short list) all going on right now.

so of course i am of no help because i'm in the same boat. Just so you don't feel alone 'in' there!

oh yeah, try tryptophan techniques, either food containing tryptophan or natural supplements (didn't work for me, but maby it'll work for you). Sorry if i'm just makin it worse.

dire (whose thinking WAY TOO MUCH)

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if i'm of no help, it's because in my mind i'm thinking about algebra class, gardening, farming, weather, my gf's location, this weekends activities, my latest idea + starting my small business and details. (short list) all going on right now.

so of course i am of no help because i'm in the same boat. Just so you don't feel alone 'in' there!

It does help...a lot...that you know what I'm talking about. And what you said above, pretty much explains my thought process.

I'll have to look into natural psychoactives/herbs and natural supplements (no exclusion here, I'll take anything that may help; different things work for different people, right?).

I was told today how smaller remedies could help. Maybe not significantly, but some nonetheless. Is it true that ideas such as finding a specific task to organize yourself as well as finding a specific stimulation to calm yourself really helps? Or is that just some crappy folklore? It seems my mind runs over those ideas.

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I have found through experimentation that a certain psychoactive/hallucinigenic helps me slow my mind to where i'm "like everyone else" and of few thoughts. With the help of the 'drug' i can concentrate, meditate, and overall listen to the things that get drowned out by constant thoughts. UNFORTUNATELY, it is not of legal status and can make other people go thru psychosis. I do believe in the power of the mind, for we have it. Just too much for our own good :)

Do some research on the Bhudist monks, their techniques in meditation have been proven to strengthen the mind and the minds eye (of which we both have several of ;) )

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Monster, I believe Velvis was referring to masturbation.

What makes you believe it's the add, and not some sort of hypomania? It could be. I don't know one way or the other. How did you do on your other stims? I know my mind raced like a horse til I got back on my mood stabilizer. I sleep now. All night.

Croix

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Monster,

There are some sleep hygiene techniques that can help people who's minds race or who ruminate. I like this Sleep Protocol and have it on my fridge so that I am reminded of it at night.

I would really advise against using illegal substances to help you sleep, particularly as your meds are not stabilized and paranoia and psychosis will not help with racing thoughts.

If Croix is right about what VE meant, that may indeed help. Can't hurt. Well, I suppose it could, very hypothetically.

5HTP or compounded tryptophan (available with a prescription) can help a lot with sleep, but don't take it if you are on an SSRI or SNRI.

good luck,

Penny

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What makes you believe it's the add, and not some sort of hypomania? It could be. I don't know one way or the other.

Hypomania goes w/bipolar, and in bipolarland doesn't that which races have to eventually slow or stop?

(unless one cycles between hypomanic and manic of course)

ADD thoughts may or may not race, but they just. won't. f'ing. stop. (Alcohol doesn't help slow 'em down

either. Then again, that isn't always a bad thing. For instance, when the topic is "When was the last time

I breathed? I don't know. I should do that. *breath* Wow. That's a lot of ketones. Tomorrow's going

to suck. Oh, yeah. Let's try a couple of deep breaths...")

BTW, hitting the stims too hard can single-track thought processes. That sux harder, even if it is

easier to shift thought tracks.

OK. Something constructive?

If it's thoughts of sex and general frustration keeping you thinking of the sex you aren't having,

masturbation does help (maybe this is just one of those XY things?)

All the other random BS that keeps ya awake:

- Try putting a familiar CD on, loud enough you don't have to strain to hear but soft enough to ignore

like you usually would. It also covers random noises.

- Try meditation. Some of the very repetitive techniques (mantra chanting, counting breaths {e.g., 1 to 10

then start over, repeat ad infinitum}) can take you almost into sleep themselves. It might not be

a Zen goal, but the Zen Masters aren't exactly the ones losing sleep!

- Pick a story that you are familiar with, interject yourself as a (vaguely) compatible character, redo/relive

the story. Let the mind riff itself (and revise and re-edit ...) on into dream state. Pick a reasonably

cool/complex world to drop your alter ego into: sprawling scifi/fantasy worlds are good (B5, Harry Potter,

Tolkien, DC/Marval, etc.), romance/bodic-ripper novels will have you back to VE's step one,

If "Death of a Salesman" is your choice get therapy ASAP.

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If at least 3 hours before bed:

Long duration endurance exercise (not sprinting). Say, 12 to 20 mile bike ride or more if you're really in shape. Less if you don't tend to get exercise. Also, spending time outside, in the light, during the day.

If shortly before bed:

slow to moderate paced walk, preferably outside, for maybe half an hour. Seems to take off some excess energy or something without waking me up.

They both help, may not do the whole trick. Your mileage may vary.

If you're really stuck, exercising hard to exhaustion may work, but if you don't do it long enough it may just wake you up. Plus it uses up time that, if some other trick would work, could be used for sleeping.

I can testify that the stim thing helps most of the time. I get by on what's left over at the end of the day. Doesn't help in the AM, tho.

Also, you shouldn't be too hungry or too stuffed. You might eat a bit of turkey, if you like it, not terribly long before bed.

Edited by ldo
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masturbation ey? might work...

or atleast some ind of stimulatory behavior.

and Ido, thank you! That kind of stuff is exactly the tehniques I was referring to. Ideas to use to calm my brain down so I can rest.

Monster

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  • 2 weeks later...

I could say something, but then again i may be ostrosized.

I HAVE the same problem, for the last five years i've let the doctors decide the meds, no more. Their are many things that calm the mind, herbs drinks and natural psychoactives, there i said it.

unfortunately for me meditation, qi jong, and other mindset techniques have not worked for me, for it is hard to concentrate when your mind goes and goes and goes.

well anyway, i've broken down to one suggestion from a doc, i use valium now. It doesn't get rid of the "noise" it just slows it down and makes it easier to ignore. I average 2-4 hours sleep per day (or less) and most people don't get that my mind is busy the entire time.

dire (whose thinking WAY TOO MUCH)

This is what I've finally had to do for the ADD-non-stop-brain but I take a doctor approved ambian/xanax combo instead of Valium...

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What makes you believe it's the add, and not some sort of hypomania?

I don't as far as I'm aware have ADD but I do have Bipolar II and suffer from the same brain racing thing.

I have extreme brain racing, but only episodic when considering hypomania. This particular brain racing, as i mentioned, is all the time; even before my hypomania came into my life. I just constantly think, about anything and everything. I'm just an extreme adhd kid, and it's just how i roll ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is so ridiculous but when I'm trying to clear my head I say the alphabet-loudly- until I can find another thought to place the old one with. I used to have violent thoughts about God striking me dead for various reasons then I'd sing the alphabet song til I could either play enough music to push the thoughts out or find some stupid repetitive commerical or another thought to stop it. Or I'd write dozens of lists just to get the thought out.

repetitive thoughts-jeez-if I get too bad I'll take a zyprexa that always works

lilie

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  • 4 weeks later...

well i have to do the opposite of all the things they tell you to do for sleeping disorders. my racing thoughts and constant babble in my head is way bad and to fall asleep i have to have the TV on so the voices on the telly drown out my thoughts. i pick certain shows to fall asleep to even. it has to be just the right kind of talking. Law & Order works very well, and since i have seen every episode, i will not become too intersted and actually watch the show. when that show goes off and say some loud infomercial comes on i often wake up and have to find something else that will work as well so i can go back to sleep. this is weird i know but hey weird is me.

i use my meds, of course, and melatonin and well, everything in the arsenal, but i get so worn out from dealing with the too much thinking thing that goes on endlessly all day, that by bedtime i am just so eager for some time out from it in the sanctuary of sleep. i wake up early and i hate that cuz i seldom can get back to sleep. i so envy folks who can sleep late and doze on and on. i am bipolar and am sometimes hypomanic but this constant droning on of meaningless thinking is different and i have always had it. actually, when i am hypomanic or manic these thoughts begin to seem deeply meaningful. that is how i know i am getting ill. that is when it becomes very scary instead of just exhausting or distracting.

distraction is one of the other ways i try to deal with the droning on of endless thoughts in my head. i distract myself from the distracting thoughts. sounds goofy and redundant but it helps me anyway and anything is better than having to keep listening.

and i guess i am doing that very thing right now, distracting myself in just that way... ;)

thanks! from the minx ~

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