wellbutrin acting like a sedative

[lysergia]

long time no post here. found this place a long time ago when suffering effexor withdrawal (fun!).

i'm beginning my fifth week on Wellbutrin SR. for the past week i've been taking 300mg/day (titrated up over a month). i'm still waiting to wake the hell up. this med was one of the LAST antidepressants my gp wanted to try out, because it's so stimulating and i have pretty wicked anxiety. but i am SOOOOOOO tired. it's a little better now than it was a week ago, but damn. i still sleep up to 14 hours a day, and i seem to be the most tired about 60-90 minutes after i take them both in the morning and afternoon.

oops almost forgot i'm also taking 15 mg of Remeron at night (since my gp expected that i wouldn't be able to sleep on Wellbutrin, ha!). that stuff just makes me even more tired (and hungry, too). i'm thinking of dropping it to see what happens - do i really need it if i'm already sleeping?

what's even stranger to me is that my anxiety has decreased by at least 50% since i started the Wellbutrin, and i noticed it immediately (like within a few days). i haven't taken an AP or a benzo in all five weeks - which i haven't been able to do for a few YEARS now. wtf? i thought Wellbutrin was supposed to make me MORE anxious?

does anyone else out there get these effects from Wellbutrin? what does it say about my biochemistry that this stuff makes me tired and calmer, just like a benzo would (or zyprexa or seroquel used to)? it isn't making me any less depressed either - i am miserable, but the obsessive thoughts that feed my anxiety are almost gone. my diagnoses include (unspecified)depression, (unspecified)anxiety, PTSD, (maybe)OCD, and DID.

thanks for any feedback anyone might have.

[Velvet Elvis]

It's not unheard of. That kind of nervous system paradox is more common in individuals with ADD, hence the whole thing with taking amphetamines to be less hyper. It's not a diagnostic criterion for ADD though. It is enough that you might want to read up some more on ADD and see if any of it sounds familiar.

[Kalifornia]

Exactly what happened to me. Completely knocked me down at first. My pdoc must know something I don't because he gave it to me specifically for my anxiety and it was only the 2nd med I tried. Just stick with it a little longer and you should get used to it. At least I did. I don't get tired or down on it anymore.

I must be one of the weird ones because I was just started on Xanax XR and that stuff doesn't knock me out at all. In fact, it kind of gives me energy. Strange!

[Peaty]

Wellbutrin made me sleepier and really, really spacey. Kind of like a zombie. My aunt (blood related) took it to quit smoking and had some sort of an out of body experience. Everybody's reaction to these drugs are so different I can believe that there are quit a few other people that get sleepy from taking it. I was on it for about 5 or 6 weeks before I stopped so that I wouldn't flunk all my classes.

[lysergia]

thanks everyone for your replies. i guess i'm not a total freak, heh.

it's kinda funny... i looked up some ADD diagnostic stuff, and i would fit (inattentive i think) if i didn't already know some of this stuff i experience is dissociation-related (especially the memory-related stuff). makes me wonder how i'd feel taking stimulants, and how that would affect the dissociative phenomenon, etc. i'll remember that and file it in the "if all else fails try this" drawer.

i guess for now i'll cross my fingers that the tiredness will wear off, and my mood will eventually improve. damn it's hard to be patient, though! i want to feel better yesterday.

thanks again

[LikeMinded]

Well, there are 2 dopamine receptors, D1 and D2... but I forget which does which, one stimulates when activated and the other sedates when activated, I think we have way more of the activating ones in us.

This is why APs and AAPs can cause EPS and TD, by blocking the sedating pathway. (=extrapyramidal tract?). Probably also why they can cause akathisia. I bet it's part of the reason why Risperdal and Abilify (in some people) are activating. And the reason that Zyprexa gave me hellish EPS and akathisia.

Maybe you might have more of the sedating dopamine receptors (maybe part of the weird ADD brain - maybe that's why Zyprexa hit me so hard!). Wellbutrin didn't sedate me, but pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine (i.e. Sudafed in the US) generally do, and these are thought to be moderate stimulants.

[Velvet Elvis]

Well, there are 2 dopamine receptors, D1 and D2... but I forget which does which, one stimulates when activated and the other sedates when activated, I think we have way more of the activating ones in us.

This is why APs and AAPs can cause EPS and TD, by blocking the sedating pathway. (=extrapyramidal tract?). Probably also why they can cause akathisia. I bet it's part of the reason why Risperdal and Abilify (in some people) are activating. And the reason that Zyprexa gave me hellish EPS and akathisia.

Maybe you might have more of the sedating dopamine receptors (maybe part of the weird ADD brain - maybe that's why Zyprexa hit me so hard!). Wellbutrin didn't sedate me, but pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine (i.e. Sudafed in the US) generally do, and these are thought to be moderate stimulants.

It's more complicated than that. The 2 receptor model has pretty much been ruled out.

I was wrestling with this stuff before topamax ate my brain. Now it just makes me remeber that I need to go cut the grass.

http://physrev.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/78/1/189

[Guest montyface]

This is interesting. I have anxiety, some ocd/adhd type shit and maybe a small bit of depression.

I was told to avoid this and I actually wanted to try it. pdocs told me to avoid it and most on here told me the same thing, basically until you get your anxiety under control dont touch wellbutrin because it mostly makes the anxiety worse.

So what is the real deal? I probably would have tried this then the effexor I am taking now. I am on 75mg of effexor going on about 6 weeks or so, not feeling awful or great, just about the same if I wasn't taking anything. MAYBE a bit less anxious sometimes but in general around the same, however sometimes it seems to make me feel a bit more anxious? Does that sound normal? My hand shaky crap I got from prozac still pops up here or there, more so if I use my albuterol or have caffeine. But it isn't as bad. I think I gained a couple pds at first on the effex but I am working on controlling my hunger more and also trying to get more walking and yard work exercise in.

I think I need to go up in my dose, not helping much with anxiety, the ocd type crap, my shity memory - losing stuff, forgetting why I went into a room, the adhd type symptoms I have.

Any feedback on this and the wellbutrin?

[

quote name='herrfous' post='159958' date='May 31 2006, 01:08 PM']

Well, there are 2 dopamine receptors, D1 and D2... but I forget which does which, one stimulates when activated and the other sedates when activated, I think we have way more of the activating ones in us.

This is why APs and AAPs can cause EPS and TD, by blocking the sedating pathway. (=extrapyramidal tract?). Probably also why they can cause akathisia. I bet it's part of the reason why Risperdal and Abilify (in some people) are activating. And the reason that Zyprexa gave me hellish EPS and akathisia.

Maybe you might have more of the sedating dopamine receptors (maybe part of the weird ADD brain - maybe that's why Zyprexa hit me so hard!). Wellbutrin didn't sedate me, but pseudoephedrine and phenylephrine (i.e. Sudafed in the US) generally do, and these are thought to be moderate stimulants.

It's more complicated than that. The 2 receptor model has pretty much been ruled out.

I was wrestling with this stuff before topamax ate my brain. Now it just makes me remeber that I need to go cut the grass.

http://physrev.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/78/1/189

[null0trooper]

Herrfous: BTW, the dopamine receptor count is at least up to D5. I never could keep them straight though.

.

I think I need to go up in my dose, not helping much with anxiety, the ocd type crap, my shity memory - losing stuff, forgetting why I went into a room, the adhd type symptoms I have.

Any feedback on this and the wellbutrin?

75 mg isn't a very high effexor dose, so I can see why you might want to increase it for dealing with OCD.

Like VE said, I've heard of WB acting as a sedative - and it's usually with people who have inattentive ADD

to the point that it's hard to tell where it stops and the comorbid depression and other things start. The

way I visualize it:

Frontal lobe, after WB: "Hey guys, I'm back!"

Temporal lobe: "Good! Glad to HAVE you back,old chap. By the way ..."

ALL: "WE QUIT!"

lysergia: There are a couple of things that might help with WB sedation.

- tyrosine or phenylalanine supplements, in case you're have issues with DA/NA depletion in spite of the

reuptake inhibition (may not be kind to bipolar or PKU folks)

- ask your psychiatrist if s/he thinks Provigil will help (a stimulant may help as well or better - that IS

debatable - but Provigil isn't a Schedule II substance in the USA)

It would be vaguely amusing if, after all the time people has argued for AD(H)D being on a spectrum

with autism, it were found out to be on a spectrum with DID or something truly bizarre and goofy.

[olga]

long time no post here. found this place a long time ago when suffering effexor withdrawal (fun!).

i'm beginning my fifth week on Wellbutrin SR. for the past week i've been taking 300mg/day (titrated up over a month). i'm still waiting to wake the hell up. this med was one of the LAST antidepressants my gp wanted to try out, because it's so stimulating and i have pretty wicked anxiety. but i am SOOOOOOO tired. it's a little better now than it was a week ago, but damn. i still sleep up to 14 hours a day, and i seem to be the most tired about 60-90 minutes after i take them both in the morning and afternoon.

Lysergia:

I was going to start a thread about Wellbutrin SR vs. Wellbutrin XL, and here you are bringing up the sleepiness issue!

My doctor started me on Wellbutrin XL about 6-7 weeks ago. I began with 150mg and went up to 300 and life was great! Happy, energetic---I felt like the "old me." The doctor agreed that I should continue on it and his staff faxed a script to my mail-order pharmacy.

I neglected to get a week's supply to tide me over until my big supply arrived, so I started taking some Wellbutrin SRs that I had from a year ago. (I KNOW we're not supposed to save this stuff, gang---so don't bother to chastise me about it!)

The point is that almost IMMEDIATELY I got sleepy! Sleepy in the morning right after drinking coffee, sleepy later in the morning, sleepy in the afternoon....it was like someone was slipping an SSRI into my soup. I had no change in my routine---I'm exercising every day and doing yard work for HOURS every day---so why would I be sleepy, all of a sudden?

The only variable was going from Wellbutrin XL to Wellbutrin SR.

Yesterday I had a fight with the mail-order pharmacy, because they want to give me Wellbutrin SR---or the generic, budepropin or however you spell it. I got my doctor's office to call and say that I MUST have the XL version.

So maybe before you give up on Wellbutrin, you should ask your doctor if you could try the XL version. My doc had samples in the cabinet of both 150s and 300s, so your guy should have a few week's worth to give you.

Just a suggestion!

olga

[lysergia]

thank you everyone for your help and comments! this is such an awesome place. sorry i haven't responded sooner.

i'm still taking 300 mg of wellbutrin SR - and i will definitely push for the XR version next time i see my gp, now that i hear it might make me less tired! if i am still battling teh sleep by July, i'll also be asking about adding something that promotes wakefulness (like the provogil -sp?). i bet my GP will freak if i ask for stimulants, heh (i've had a bad history with panic attacks 'n stuff). but you never know til you try, right?

i dropped the remeron (15 mg) and i am significantly less lethargic, but i still get tired way too fast. i don't think it was doing anything beneficial anyway. and i still get to sleep at night just fine without it.

today i'm starting to take Lyrica (150 mg) - my very first anticonvulsant (oh boy!). wellbutrin is making me less depressed (not that i'm happy at all), but it is also stirring up some agitation and horrible, horrible rage (and bursts of crying like a baby over NOTHING). so the Lyrica is supposed to help that (i hope i hope). the only thing i see written here is that my doctor LIED about Lyrica being weight-neutral. if i gain any more freaking weight this script will end up in the garbage. since last year, i've gained 5 lbs of seroquel, 5 lbs of zyprexa, 5 lbs of lexapro, and 5 lbs of remeron. i can't take being this fat, let alone get fatter.

i've looked around here this morning and found that there isn't much info about Lyrica here yet, so i'll try to remember to post my experiences. i feel stupid rambling on about my meds and my crazyness, but at the same time, i'm so VERY VERY glad that other people wrote about theirs - i figure maybe my rambling will be useful to someone, too.

it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine autism/aspergers on a continuum with dissociation, i don't think. that's a really interesting suggestion that i'd like to explore someday when i'm not feeling teh dumb :embarassed:

thanks again.