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Going off of MOST meds?


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Hiya-

I've come to the conclusion that my 30mg Lex and 150WB may be contributing to my cycling and depression. I've decided to talk to my pdoc about coming off of those meds.

That would leave me with Lamictal and Klonopin.

My psychotic episodes only come during terrible episodes, so my pdoc thinks there is the chance we could get away with just making sure I'm damn stable to work on not having the psychotic episodes.

My ADD is manageable without medication. I don't want to have to start something for it.

Any thoughts, besides adding Dope-a-max (which ceases ALL thought!) on what I can do to further mood stabilize? Anything like flax oil or lifestyle stuff? Reike? Alternative therapies? I'm not going wacko on herbals or anything like that, I'm just interested in what could augment my existing drugs to keep me off of more of them.

I'd like to be as stable as possible to avoid other problems that come with cycling, and one day be a mother. When it is possible of course. I'd like to keep jobs, build and keep good credit, and do all those things people dream of doing.

Loon

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i'm not a pdoc or homeopath, but i think there are still other mood stabilizers like keppra and zonegran--don't hold me to this cuz i'm a know-nothing. But the info is on crazymeds.us

also, you being bp I, unless you're major depressed, i'm not sure why a pdoc would let you anywhere near an antidepressant. from what i've read of your posts, your problem seems to come more from the mania side. i'm only bp II and my pdoc never let me have any ad's.

good luck,

7

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For me the most important thing is a fixed schedule with at least a few pleasant things in it. I have pulled myself out of some real nosedives into Crazy Land because I had to fake normal socialization.

For exercise, a blend of exhausting and centering would be good. How do you feel about yoga and running?

B vitamins, so you don't get tired and discouraged.

Good luck,

SG

(whose WB made her cycle like an SOB)

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My pdoc has this crazy (to me) theory that Zyprexa could be used by itself instead of all the other drugs I'm taking. I can now kind of start to see where he's going with this. Zyprexa could potentially:

-stabilize and reduce mixed states like Trileptal does

-work as AD for depression and anxiety like Lexapro

-help me sleep like Remeron

-reduce need for Ativan

-I'm almost off propranolol (Inderal) anyway

I know you don't like the weight gain from Zyprexa but just thought I'd throw that theory out there. I would feel better at first doing Lex and Zyprexa. Last time I tried Zyprexa it made me so tired and depressed I couldn't stand it but I was taking all the other stuff at higher doses along with it.

I think the worse off you are, the less helpful alternative therapies are. That's my theory, others may protest. To contradict myself, I've found B vitamins to augment ADs and magnesium for heart rate slightly helpful.

I wouldn't necessarily lump Lexapro and Wellbutrin together. They are both pretty different.

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Hi Loony.

There are a lot of non-medication things that help stablize your mood. I'd like to second the fixed schedule thing. Going to bed and waking up at ~generally~ the same time every day is extremely important.

What you put into your body matters, too. (Vitamin B has been good to me, ditto Omega 3 oils.) You should be eating mostly whole foods, (like whole grains, fresh fruits & veggies), as opposed to refined foods (like fast food and sugary stuff) This is a link to the "Depression" menu at www.wholehealthmd.com:

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/ME2/dirmod.as...424BEB803BC3CD8

Hope that link works.

Regular exercise is SO important for so many reasons. You can pick whatever you like to do. Blood circulation and movement itself is very, very good for your brain.

It's also helpful to make a list of what helps you when you are depressed or manic, so you can refer to it when you're gettin ill. My list has stuff like aromatherapy (seriously, smelling a nice soap or candle really does help cheer me up, even if just a tiny bit, it is significant) You can brainstorm and come up with things that help you, so you're prepared for when a storm hits.

- MG

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I know you said you weren't interested in Dopamax, but I thought I would mention that I recently started it (titrated very slowly), and am loving it. I was terrified of the possible cognitive side effects, but if anything, I am more focused. It seems to be working very very well for me. My pdoc says it gets an inordinately bad rap regarding its possible side effects--as in they don't always happen.

Just my two cents.

J.

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I've known a couple people irl who were likely bp1, the bp1/bp2 distinction wasn't widely known at the time. They both swore by lithium monotherapy. Nothing else worked nearly as well and anything else in addition, including a Sobe or smoothie with the wrong herbs in it, could send them over the edge batshit psychotic.

I can see the logic in coming off the lex and WB, but none of the rest of it. Just do it slowly and stop if things start to get weird. Stay the hell away from health food shops though. A lot of that stuff could flip you out just as easily as pharmaceuticals.

Omega 3 fatty acids are probably OK. Just let you doc know what you're doing. I forget why, but I'm pretty sure you want to go with fish oil over flax. It may be the ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6.

Edit to add:

Yeah, it is. Flax seed oil is pretty much useless as it's maintaining the proper ration of Omega 3 to Omega 6 that's important. The typical American diet is so deficient in omega-3 that there isn't enough in flax seed oil to make counterbalance it.

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Ironically, Looners, WB and Lex were the two meds that made me manic as hell. WB being the worst (see sig). For a typical manic-happy BP, AD's are really starting to scare me. Unfortunately for me, non-med ideas haven't really worked all that well or were relatively neutral. Meditating was the only thing that calmed me down.

And Topamax wasn't that bad. It did slow down some rapid-cycling.

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Hey Loon, my two cents are with the people suggesting a solid routine. I started to go a bit psychotic recently, and going into work (even if not actually doing any work.....) really helped as I had to try to act as normal as possible. Also, I eat very healthily (always have done, veggie) but am told that this probably helps too. Good luck!

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Today my pnurse RXed Z and I'm quitting WB (such a low dose, I won't miss it anyway). We're going to see about the Lex. I've been in rapid-cycling-loony-crazy-suicidal-manic land for at least a week now.

we'll see how it goes.

now i'm puppy-sitting for my cousin and the dog makes me get out of my place at least every 3 hours. it helps, i know it does. i'm vegan and do make sure to get all the nutrition i need. i should take flax and b stuff.

and i should avoid alcohol (like my wine sometimes) and weird relationships, and car wrecks.

LOON

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i don't know what to tell you...ever tried high doses of fish oil?? seems to help me. as for topomax..if you've never tried it, how do you k!now how it'll effect you?? how bout keppra?? and like others have said, b vitamins are good. i'm not to good about taking them, but i bought b6 and b12 because of recommendations from others on this board.

keep us updated, hope things get better for you

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Loon---

Just gonna give you my ideas out there.

To me it looks like the idea of dropping everything but the Lamictal and K shouldn't be a bad idea. But you might find your self someday on the business end of a more powerful AC or even another AAP of sorts if the Lamictal proves too stimulating (as it's been discussed here, some feel it activates mania). Dropping the Z might get you right back on it (and it's a bitch to quit, though you may know this already).

And the herbals, yeah. If another herbalist (for some reason, they seem to be dime-a-dozen in this podunk mini-city where the only herb should be pine needles) at the store where I buy specialty foods at comes up to me touting "all-natural, safe [insert condition here] remedies", the only thing stopping herrfous' fist from herbalist's face is probably the Georgia penal code.

hehehehe I said penal. anyways

My point was, you know, after I spent a few minutes trying to figure out what I was saying, like people said here, many herbs touted as 'cures' are probably more dangerous than conventional pharmas.

Know where a lot of conventional pharmas get their roots (no pun intended)? You guessed it, plants and natural alkaloids. Digestive spasms are still treated today with standardized belladonna alkaloids (a set dosed combination of scopolamine, hycosamine, and atropine) of natural origin, but compacted into a pill your doctor can prescribe you. Taxol, an early-90s chemotherapeutic agent, was found in the bark of the Pacific yew tree. St. John's Wort standardized extract is actually a government-approved depression treatment in many EU nations.

Take a look at the above -- especially belladonna and Taxol -- I'm pretty sure you'd rather not take either of those without knowing exactly how much active compound was in your tincture! (And preferably only with a doctor's specific advice!)

I'd like to be as stable as possible to avoid other problems that come with cycling, and one day be a mother.

I hear you on that problem. Cycling tends to give me assorted bloodied limbs when (not if) I wipe out. Unnecessary attention at the derriere as well, especially with those God-awful spandex shorts. It's probably going to stop me from fathering children, as well.

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