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Bipolar Youths May Misread Faces...Intersting study


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Ran across a link to this article about a study on one of my favorite blogs...

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/122/1...=rss_webmdblogs

A couple blurbs:

Youths with bipolar disorderbipolar disorder may see hostility in faces that look blank to other people, new research shows.
A new study shows that bipolar youths are more likely than others to see hostility in and fear neutral faces.

Also interesting...

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/99/10...0000_5022_pe_02

Is It ADHD or Bipolar Disorder?
Children with bipolar disorder are often misdiagnosed as having ADHD, and ADHD medication won't help. Sometimes, children suffer from both.

Research done by Joseph Biederman, MD, a child psychiatrist and expert in bipolar disorder in children, estimates the frequency of ADHD in school-aged kids at 3%-5%. The frequency of bipolar disorder in the same group is estimated to be less than half of 1%. Most of the children diagnosed with bipolar disorder also meet the criteria for ADHD, while only about one in five with ADHD meet bipolar disorder criteria.

Some experts believe that ADHD is overdiagnosed, and while bipolar disorder is relatively rare in children, it tends to be underdiagnosed. This could be because bipolar disorder typically surfaces in adolescence or early adulthood, and it is much less black-and-white in terms of how it manifests in children.

Current research suggests that there may in fact be a third, separate disorder that is somewhere in between the two.

Good and interesting stuff. I had to force myself to stop clicking links...

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wow, that's interesting. that would account for my hair-trigger hostility (during those bleak stretches when i'm not in love with the world).

next, they should do borderline girls. ;)

thanks for the link,

7

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Would this be more proof of a tie between bipolar disorder and autism???

i don't know much about autism but i suspect it's about disconnection?

for me personally, bipolar is about hyper-intense-empathy/connection, over-reactivity,--when i see a neutral face, i also see all the negligence, disinclination to engage in turn, the hypocrisy and lie given to their convenient values, aims, aspirations, the insult & offense of silence, --these are negative crimes! bipolar, i think, just over gets it and over reacts. Neutral is not neutral. meaning is created in the engagement, silent communication, interaction.

7

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i think wifezilla is pointing to the connection between autism and prosopagnosia (good read and good analogy is here at http://www.prosopagnosia.com/) or face blindness.

But while mis-reading facial expressions could be a sort of face-blindness, i don't think it's the same. I don't imagine there's any connection between bipolar disorder and prosopagnosia, though this finding COULD be the beginnings of a linkage. we can speculate, is all.

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I am the loving but oft-confused mother of an ADD (NOT ADHD) and Bipolar II child, who has had both conditions since toddler-hood, now that I look back. (We used to just say he was moody, or the Pod People had stolen his brain again)

Went thru more guilt than you can imagine when the ADD and BP was diagnosed (finally, at age 22)--I'm a nurse, why didn't I know about ADD without the hyper, or that kids who are BP cycle madly during the day, often hundreds of times a day, and that BPII you can just come from depressed to normal or irritable, without mania??

But he is both those things, and remains staunchly unmedicated--his choice--and is learning to cope pretty well. He does know, tho, that when things get jazzy or out of control, he has to get off by himself, meditate and work thru things alone. Hard for me to watch and stand by, but good that he knows that.

The point of all this? Hell, I don't know, I just know that he has both, and is doing OK with his life and I love him so much it hurts, and am way proud of what he has accomplished.

So there--

china, the ever-proud mom

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I always think people are mad at me or in a bad mood just by looking at their face. Whether it is my fine

tuned perception or my paranoia, who knows? Interesting stuff though.

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Heya,

Hunh.

I'm flagrant (halfway there now) bipolar and also some kind of loner. Schizoid vs Aspie is still up-in-the-air and who cares.

For some reason I can read their faces, which my patients like, and which DH hates. ;)

I'm sure I learned something recently about misdiagnosis of ADHD and bipolar or comorbidity of those. Also something triggers my memory about ASD but I dunno what. I'll look in my Big Box of Things I Haven't Gotten Around to Reading Yet.

--ncc--

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I've been told a number of times, mostly by two former boyfriends, that I tend to read more negative motives into others' behavior than is actually there. During couples' counseling with the more recent one, the counselor said that it was fairly common for some people with depression or bipolar disorder to do that. I don't know what she was basing it on, but I'm more inclined to believe it now that I've seen some actual data.

I'm looking forward to future research on the actual mechanisms. Is this specific to face perception, or does it have to do with thinking about others in general? Is it a basic-level neurological thing, or does it work through something else, like emotional oversensitivity leading to a tendency to prepare for the worst from others? And, of course, do these findings hold up for adults?

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*Sigh*

I don't know where people are coming up with connections between different illnesses just because of similar disfunctions. It is like saying that bees (stinging) and bricks (dropped on feet) are related because of swelling.

*A major point to keep in mind in discussing this study: It was performed with children/adolescents. NOT ADULTS.

This study was performed with Adults comparing 10 normals, 8 Manics, 8 stable BPI's and 8 Stable BPII's:

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/conten...pe2=tf_ipsecsha

- Found that Manic adults tend to read facial expressions as more positive, which is congruent with mania.

- Stable Bipolar I's also have a slight tendency to under-read fearful expressions.

- Bipolar II's have a tendency to over-read expressions as fearful.

a.m.

[edit] The authors of the first study posit that perception of facial expressions could contribute to mania. This seems patently absurd to me. I am quite capable of spinning up while hiding in my apartment, no other people needed. My belief is that recognizing these differences in social reaction will help identify the specific areas of the brain affected or causing the illnesses. The responses also might lead to diagnostic tests that psychiatrists could use to identify which type of Bipolar a patient has. Imagine the Pdoc taking a history then having you take a facial recognition test in another room, then returning to be told which flavor you have. am.

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*Sigh*

I don't know where people are coming up with connections between different illnesses just because of similar disfunctions. It is like saying that bees (stinging) and bricks (dropped on feet) are related because of swelling.

But they are the same thing aren't they? They *do* both cause swelling. It's like the link between the declining number of pirates and global warming - there's clear statistical evidence.

Anyway. I wasn't alluding to the study, I was picking up on Wifezilla's comment and trying to make the point that I could see the misundrestanding social interaction / autism link, but felt that having problems with social interaction was more typical of borderline than bipolar.

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hmmmmm, peers suspiciously at Unregistered...... are you reallly a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster????

WWJD = What Would Jesus Do?

WWTFSMD = What Would The Flying Spaghetti Monster Do?

Flying Spaghetti Monster bless you.

a.m. "pass the parmesan please"

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Is this specific to face perception, or does it have to do with thinking about others in general?

- Found that Manic adults tend to read facial expressions as more positive, which is congruent with mania.

- Stable Bipolar I's also have a slight tendency to under-read fearful expressions.

- Bipolar II's have a tendency to over-read expressions as fearful.

I'm of the opinion that it's based in how one thinks of/percieves others, and that distorts the perception of the expression one sees. Obviously a distorted mind state (mania) can radically alter this perseption, but...maybe the perception in "stable mode" can be altered by how one sees them while manic? I.e., do I see faces as hostile® because that's how it is when I'm manic, OR do I see them as somewhat hostile® while more-or-less stable because that's stuck in my head from manic episodes?

(Note here that while mania is often, of course, associated with euphoric feelings, and thusly positive perceptions, folks like me that tend to go dysphoric and, in a case like mine, low-level paranoid with highly violent tendencies)

I guess what I'm trying to suss out with me free-flowing thought process here is: is it chicken-egg, or oroborus (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) or...what? that is, if there's anything actually going on with this; they were all rather small studies, after all.

What I'd like to see--how people describe faces when manic vs. how they describe them when stable. If there were a marked difference, that'd put some meat on this theory.

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