so why DO (some) people want to be bipolar?

[resonance]

I've been thinking about this for a bit, mainly in response to seeing people's bafflement at why anyone would want to be bipolar (if they're not, or if they're not diagnosed with anything, or they're diagnosed with something else). Whenever I see people doing baffling things, I want to know why...

So here are some seven possible reasons, not mutually exclusive, ranging from the more annoying to the more worthy reasons. Plus, so that I'm not too un-judgmental, my suggestions for what they ought to get.

1) They've heard it used to excuse otherwise inappropriate behavior, and it sounds like a useful excuse. I was once in a counseling group where this (college) kid came in and he'd done something really inappropriate in his relationship with his girlfriend and her best friend, verbal abuse, and he really didn't want to take and responsibility either for the act or for dealing with the consequences, and offered up the explanation that perhaps he was bipolar. As someone else on this board once said, "No, I'm bipolar. You're an asshole." These people need 1) to be called on it real hard and 2) education. And figurative kicks to the head, less for them than to make us feel better.

2) Because it's trendy in their social group, or because they want attention. It makes people special, or at least it sounds that way when people talk about them, and it's more exciting than depression but less stigmatizing than schizophrenia. Also, it's mildly scandalous and good for attracting attention. [Note I'm not making any claims about whether this is true or a good thing or whatever, I'm just saying that I think some people think this.] These people need education and possibly a figurative kick to the head, sometimes only a gentle one depending on age.

3) Because the media overplays the pleasant kind of mania, and underportrays depression. Wouldn't it be great to feel extra-super-good? *I'd* sure as hell like to. People wanting to be bipolar for this reason could be mentally healthy and just greedy, or mentally ill in a way that has no ups. I think most of us have wanted some extra-good feelings while in the midst of depression. These people need education (particularly about the fact that hypo/mania can suck real bad and destroy your life), and in the latter case, better treatment, and probably some sympathy too.

4) We're famous and creative, or at least get portrayed that way, at least when we're not being portrayed as dangerous serial killers. Everybody wants to be brilliant, and brilliant+eccentric+famous is good too. Education. Reminders that mostly bipolar means extra hurdles to do the ordinary, day-to-day things mentally healthy people take for granted. And reminders that while there is an association between bipolar and creative, being bipolar will not necessarily make you creative and is virtually certain not to make you famous.

5) Because they have changes in their moods and don't realize that they've not severe enough to be bipolar. Or they're hypochondriac about mental disorders or something. Either way, there's a calibration problem. Education. But gently, because it's possible they really do meet criteria, and it might not be a bad thing for them to get evaluated anyway.

6) Because we have an attractive recovery narrative. Not everyone does, but a lot of people here have a narrative that goes, "There was something wrong with me for years and years and treatment wasn't successful. Now that I've been diagnosed bipolar, I'm finally on the right medications to help me." If you've had problems for years and years and treatment has been unsuccessful, it would be great if you could get diagnosed as something that would get you treatment that would actually help. Education. Everybody needs education. Plus pointers to better treatment for whatever it is. Possibly a new pdoc.

7) Because they'd done some research and the bipolar label fits them better than anything else. They haven't been diagnosed, because they haven't yet seen a pdoc, or they have a pdoc who isn't aware of or doesn't believe in the new spectrum stuff, or won't diagnose hypo/mania if it's not the euphoric kind. They may be right that they meet criteria for bipolar, in which case they need the relevant diagnosis and treatment. Either way, they probably need to see a pdoc or get a second opinion. I'm pretty sure a lot of us used to be here. I know I was.

[Velvet Elvis]

I've been nothing but depressed or kinda OK for fifteen years. I could handle a bit more variety and am guilty of thinking #3 sometimes.

Bipolar for a few weeks might be nice change of pace.

I guess I could always just get a couple ounces of cocaine for a lot of the same effect and have things work out just as well in the long run.

[Guest FrannyNZooey]

Because they don't know the first fuckin thing about it!

Never had it ruin careers, marriages, God their freakin dignity, make them sit up all night either pacing or crying or both, asking why?

Thinking death was the answer, that is how great it is!

Aly

PS Cocaine is nothing like manic, sorry, you are so way off, it is offensive.

[Sam]

I think some people would just like to have the chaos in their lives explained. When I was dx'ed, I felt a huge sigh of relief because I knew there was something different about me and no one could understand it. Like putting a face to a name. Of course, then I completely freaked out that I was mentally ill, but I thought I was on the right track by knowing. Little did I know, heh!

Plus I don't know anyone irl who would want to be BP. I'd tell them, "Spend a week with me and I'll change your mind!"

And in VE's defense, no, coke isn't really like mania, but I think speed can be, at least like hypomania. And you can go off the deep end with speed and it sort of turn into a manic-type thing. I can understand how a little mania thrown in would be attractive. Hell, that's the only part of the illness that is any fun.

Sam

[JBella]

Cocaine makes me sleepy.

And I know some people who are dying to be considered MI. They have soooo many things wrong with them. And glance over the fact that its all in their heads for attention and excuses for their behavior.

I used to be offended when work people/friends would say how they didn't think mania was a big deal or that it would be "cool" to experience once in a while.

Then they saw first hand exactly how uncool it really looked like when I went batshit on a busy street, tried to climb the shelves at a store, or was yapping gibberish at top speed, flailing my arms, ripping my clothes off and rolling on the floor. Then no one thought it was seductive.

I do realize though that unless people experience something themselves, they don't totally understand.

[Velvet Elvis]

I wasn't comparing the effects of the two, except maybe the effect on your life.

Nevermind.

[Sam]

Then they saw first hand exactly how uncool it really looked like when I went batshit on a busy street, tried to climb the shelves at a store, or was yapping gibberish at top speed, flailing my arms, ripping my clothes off and rolling on the floor. Then no one thought it was seductive.

I do realize though that unless people experience something themselves, they don't totally understand.

Oh yeah. My coworkers already thought I was a nutcase, then I freaked out and was dx'ed with BP, then a year and a half later I freaked out and had to go to the hospital, so NONE of them want to come NEAR me (it's contagious, you know) much less want what I've got. I have been a walking, talking real life example of why someone doesn't want to be MI.

Now I get to go back to work and see how things have gone after everyone has been gossiping and conjecturing and betting when I freak out again for the last two weeks. I am sure that will help my stability!

Grain o' salt, grain o' salt...as my dad says, "It is what it is."

Sam

[MiaB]

This whole issue really gets up my nose. Yes, it's supercool and tons of fun to hear voices when there aren't any there. And gosh, could it get any better than being virtually bedridden with depression for three months. Or having to juggle meds so many times that you don't know what the hell's going on in your body anymore. (Not that you ever knew anyway.) And naturally I really appreciate being an adult in her midthirties who is still treated like a child by her family because "yes, you're very intelligent and highly talented, but we all know you're too sick to hold down a regular dayjob and if we don't check up on you regularly and ask you about medication we know fuckall about, then you'll fall apart".

<end rant>

Had a really crappy week here, as you can tell.

[resonance]

here are a couple more relating to activism issues:

8. Wanting a more 'legitimate' disorder than depression. Depression, of course, is not actually less legitimate at all. And plenty of people don't take bipolar seriously. But there are a whole lot of people who will grant a seriousness to bipolar (those people are really crazy!) that they won't grant to depression. It can be very frustrating to be really crazy, yet have people insist you're okay. Response: education and pointing them toward activism.

9. Wanting your taking meds to be seen a matter of functioning ok, not a moral choice. Of course, plenty of people try to get bipolar people to stop taking their meds. But the public debate largely revolves around depression (and ADD), and there's more recognition of the need for people with bipolar disorder to take maintenance medication. Education, activism.

When I was diagnosed bipolar, #9 was a huge relief to me - I knew that I needed long-term medication, but continuously running into public debate over whether depressed people ought to be taking medication was emotionally exhausting. I felt like I had to justify it even to myself, despite the fact that I couldn't function without it.

[Angelwhore]

I 'wanted' to be bipolar for most of my teenage years, mostly because I was suffering major depressions and had read Dr. Jamieson's 'An Unquiet Mind'. I recognised what she was talking about, but was waaaaay too messed up to communicate to anyone else what I was going through. I was quietly going crazy on a regular basis, but keeping it all well inside so no-one realised. And I mildly resent the 'wanting it for attention' stuff - I was told that repeatedly and still have issues about going to the doctor because of it. I tend to think people will think I'm making it up/attention seeking unless I'm really out-of-control ill. It took prozac sending me into mania for anyone to take things seriously, after ten years of repressing it all on my own.

I know what people are really saying is that they dislike the romanticised version of bipolar that we often get in the media and stuff, but I just think you should be careful how you phrase things. Some people 'want' to be bipolar because they realise that they are, but just don't know how to express it.

Fuck it, I don't know if this makes any sense....I hope it does, and isn't offensive

[resonance]

btw, in case it's not clear, the reason I'm writing all this up is because knowing why people want to be bipolar or think they're bipolar despite not being bipolar, not appearing to be bipolar, or not having been diagnosed, might help our problem with them, as well as whatever problem makes them want to be bipolar, or think they're bipolar, in the first place. It's an ongoing issue that makes a lot of people around here upset and/or offended, and I thought some in-depth consideration might come up with something useful.

[Angelwhore]

Hey, like I said, I don't mean to offend. It's just that I spent so long fighting on my own without knowing how to ask for the right kind of help, and I guess some of the issues that arose from that are still pretty raw. Possibly I project them onto other people..... sorry......

And Aly, you and me both!

[betcsu]

as someone who, years ago, took massive amounts of cocaine for quite some time i can assure you that it can mess up your life just as badly as bp as VE was trying to communicate. its not the SAME life mess up as BP but it can/does mess up your life just as badly none-the-less. and to say that it doesnt or isnt as bad - well, i find that offensive and it leaves me speechless.

[Velvet Elvis]

Effect on my life? Now that just so totally Blows me away I can not even respond.

You got me speechless.

Aly

One last time. What I was trying to say was that from time to time I think "gee I wish could be manic" but then I also think "gee I wish I had a couple ounces of coke." Anything to break up the tedium of feeling nothing but different shades of blah. On further contemplation I realize both are silly ideas because at least with shades of blah there is some kind of stability in my life. Blowing through a couple ounces of coke a week and manic bp states are alike in that they tend to rob one's life of that.

I don't think you quite grasp what going on that kind of binge does to person. I said this to support the view that people don't realize how destructive mania can be, that for someone to whish they were bipolar is to wish for destruction.

If you can't follow that, sorry, I've done my best.

And please, let's not get personal here.

[Dee]

In my case, a pleasant hypomania can be quite similar to the high of doing a few rails of coke or speed. I don't take any offense.

[AirMarshall]

Hey gang,

Lets not get into personal assaults here about "my cocaine habit was worse than your improperly diagnosed bipolar depression was worse than your childhood".

The topic was dealing with people who think it's fashionable to be Bipolar.

My perspective? I know I'm getting older than dirt, comparatively, but I can't imagine anyone legitimately wanting to be Bipolar, any more than wanting to have liver cancer. Isn't anyone you've seen expressing this really just immature, childish and not a well formed adult?

a.m.

[Angelwhore]

I guess we have to keep in mind the difference between wanting to be bipolar 'cause you think it's fashionable, and wanting the diagnosis because you're sure that that would explain what the fuck's been happening to you....

[Guest Guest]

think you are just stepping on the truly bipolar toes. And comments on here such as taking cocaine and getting same effect as mania is truly so fucked!

And thinking that would be same effect on Life?

Sorry to fuck up your wanting to find out, but you really think just wannabes are going to come out and play this game?

did I snort, go buy bipolar?

I know call me asshole bitch, but honestly, let set the record straight.

I was not out partying, I was teen at home when this shit offset.

Just trying to study, live, get through HS, life.

i'm going to defend noemie and hard-core addicts--oh, and btw, around 60% of bipolars have or had substance abuse problems (correct me people if i'm a bit off).

noemie defense:

obviously, this is CB. she doesn't expect wannabe-normals to come out of the woodwork and confess or otherwise comment here--cuz they ain't here. i think she's just getting a conversation going. perhaps hoping we can talk about how education will help them and help us. they get the real help they need. we get relief from misunderstanding/stigma.

addiction defense:

what do addicts and bipolars have in common in bringing their disease upon themselves? they were coping. according to the reigning theory, bipolar is something you can develop--but you don't have to. Bipolar results from the interaction between environment and genetic disposition. not everyone with bipolar has it in their family. addiction has also been shown to have a genetic factor.

So, ask yourself, when those first few life stressors hit you, what did you do? did you get emotional? you failed to immediately do some zen meditation? don't tell me you had an extra piece of chocolate or said "fuck it, i'm going to yell at someone, do something risky or self-damaging or exciting--to deal". well guess what, you may have started giving yourself bipolar. Are you sure you want to play the blame game?

now let's look at effects on your life:

bipolars: suicide attempts are around 30%

heroin addicts never recover 70% of the time. these usually die from suicide, overdose, etc.

Addiction and Bipolar are both deadly serious. And they are both stigmatized.

7

[seven]

oops!!

Sorry. That was me up there defending noemie and addicts.

got my anti-manics upped (#%@!! what's wrong with being giddy anyway?)

7

[Guest FrannyNZooey]

Hi Aly,

what did I do to piss you off? I can think of many ways to find out why a given person, or set of people, would want to be bipolar, but I'm more interested in understanding why I offended you.

Nothing noemie, think last post of mine was summary of it all.

I would like to know also.

Guess just all in the day of being a true bipolar and reading things saying and hey yeah this was like bipolar, and I want to be bipolar, it does get to us that are you know truly living biploars.

Aly

oops!!

Sorry. That was me up there defending noemie and addicts.

got my anti-manics upped (#%@!! what's wrong with being giddy anyway?)

7

Yeah Seven, so noted in my last post, but not the same. You know the relation of bipolar to addiction. Kind of like chicken and egg.

Anyway said I was taking leap there, and not one that was going to be favorite on the boards.

But been there and done that, and what I have to say.

Aly

[resonance]

noemie defense:

obviously, this is CB. she doesn't expect wannabe-normals to come out of the woodwork and confess or otherwise comment here--cuz they ain't here. i think she's just getting a conversation going. perhaps hoping we can talk about how education will help them and help us. they get the real help they need. we get relief from misunderstanding/stigma.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to do. Plus possibly hold a mirror up for some lurkers. Although I think mostly what I have done is open a venue for people to complain about people who don't understand what bipolar is really like, and to describe how bad it really is. That's understandable, given how frustrated people are about it (both the people and the bipolar). But I think the original topic is still worth a shot.

I'm also wondering if maybe we could move the substance abuse and bipolar to its own thread.

[sepia]

I'm rather enjoying Noemie's post. I've always wondered about the wider question, "why the hell would anyone want to be mentally ill?" but analyzing the bipolar segment of the issue is a worthy and enlightening endeavour. With bipolar being considered a "trendy" diagnosis by some just now, it certainly seems timely.

Similar dynamics are at play in expressed desire for other ailments and the sometimes concomitant "acting crazy." Mental illness might be temporarily viewed as glamorous by particular individuals under particular influences, but the reality of it quickly wears off all the glitter. I think particularly of certain high schoolers I've known and known of who loved to affect a controlled sort of edgy insanity, but quickly fled once exposed to the real thing. Real anorexia, real bulimia, real BPD, real bipolar -- these are not games. All of us here know it. How can we get this through to those who don't?

Analyzing avenues of bipolar mystique is an excellent start.

Also, it's nice to be quoted.

1) They've heard it used to excuse otherwise inappropriate behavior, and it sounds like a useful excuse. [...] As someone else on this board once said, "No, I'm bipolar. You're an asshole."

[Ophelia]

I'm rather enjoying Noemie's post. I've always wondered about the wider question, "why the hell would anyone want to be mentally ill?" but analyzing the bipolar segment of the issue is a worthy and enlightening endeavour. With bipolar being considered a "trendy" diagnosis by some just now, it certainly seems timely.

Similar dynamics are at play in expressed desire for other ailments and the sometimes concomitant "acting crazy." Mental illness might be temporarily viewed as glamorous by particular individuals under particular influences, but the reality of it quickly wears off all the glitter. I think particularly of certain high schoolers I've known and known of who loved to affect a controlled sort of edgy insanity, but quickly fled once exposed to the real thing. Real anorexia, real bulimia, real BPD, real bipolar -- these are not games. All of us here know it. How can we get this through to those who don't?

Analyzing avenues of bipolar mystique is an excellent start.

well said, lmnop

[blackbunny19]

then am i just the weirdest peice of shit ever or what?. I've never really found anyone else like me in this respect...wanting to be mentally ill. But maybe one of the differences is i have depression and schizophrenia, not bipolar...i've never been manic.

anyways, i've had mental issues my entire life. I started hearing voices and seeing things when i was about three years old. problems all throughout school,was started on meds when i was about 9, have been to uncountable numbers of psychiatrists and therapists, etc. Maybe it;s just cuz i'm so use to it, but i would NEVER want to be "normal" for me the thought of being normal is horrifying...i just wouldn't be me. Even when i was horribly depressed, wanted to kill myself , and all that, i still found some sort of strange comfort in being that way. And when i was psychotic--hearing voices, delusions, seeing things, etc. it WAS scary sometimes, but again, i still felt a strange comforting high from it all. I guess it was just because it was all so weird and crazy and it made me feel like an individual.

And then there are the negative symptoms which are what have really ruined my life--the low energy, low motivation, poor hygeine, lack of emotions, no friends, etc. Even though these symptoms really suck, it was still a part of what made me different, so in a way i still felt comfort and satisfaction from these symptoms.

Also because i've always known something was wrong with me, it was a big relief to be diagnosed with schiz and depression...it made the most sense because all my symptoms fit the criteria of these MI's

When someone is behaving strangly or has struggled with lots of things in life, then i don't see anything strange about wanting to have it all explained...wanting to have a diagnosis.

AND, to me it would seem that if someone wanted a mental illness in order to get attention, then there must be something seriously emotionally wrong in the first place in some shape or form

[Sylvia]

I could not agree more.

Well said, thanks so much.

Sylvia

Edited to say: your post effected me deeply. thanks again for your honesty.

[blackbunny19]

i said "may have" you said addicts did it to themselves. i am throwing your own argument back in your face.

i've lost addicts. Don't take the name of your uncles in vain to justify your own opinions and self-righteousness

like i said..."combo of genetics and environment"--bipolars can be difficult to live with.

switching up your story? Most bipolar happens in early 20s. child bipolar is a different type that i'm not touching.

the biggest organ is the skin

Ask your pdoc, tdoc, any professional/researcher. Look it up. Ask about the diathesis-stress model. That's how they think bipolar happens.

stop hiding behind children. we're talking about average bipolar--the kind that happens when you keep reacting to stress.

that's what's ignorant and offensive. Addiction IS a Mental Illness. Look up AXIS I in the DSM IV. Addicts have no choice by definition.

Franny, this is NOT a contest. Both bipolar and true addiction have high mortality rates and bring incredible suffering. And even if they didn't, you have no right to put someone else's pain and suicidality down as pathetic, weak or self-inflicted. No right to say you have it worse. No right to think you can compare.

7

I applaud you, seven. Every word you have said!

that''s right! addiction and bipolar disorder are BOTH mental illnesses and both destroy lives.

I sure as hell hate it when someone trys to say they have suffered worse then others, in this case saying Bipolar is worse than a drug addiction....there's no way in hell to measure something like that.

I have severe depression and schizophrenia. My boyfriend has been a severe addict to drugs and alchohol since he was about 14. Both of us have suffered severely, both of us have almost taken our lives on more than one occasion. I have seen him go through so much pain because of his addictions, he has seen me go through my pain as well. Neither of us will ever know who has it worse........ and it doesn't matter either.

[Guest Guest]

i have read only the original post.

i started a thread not that long ago admitting my own 'desire' to be bipolar versus my current dx of MDD.

i guess i preferred the thought of being bipolar because i saw it as a way to suggest that there might be something else for me to experience than the endless plunges into depression that i've experienced for the last twenty years.

yeah, i think depression is way under estimated as a nightmarish fucking killer. a disease where you WANT to die.

i guess i've always felt pathetic for having depression. bipolar seemed more serious. more worthy of something that has led me to this meaningless life i lead. cruising along not really trying to live my life.

yeah. pretty sad. wanting to have a mental illness to try to excuse your failures.

grouse.

[stable not balanced]

hello. just jumpin' in. hope this makes sense....

ok, so people want to be bipolar because its trendy.

violent people who murder are claiming bipolar.

do the wannabes hear these stories? shouldn't it make them not want to be bipolar?

and if it is becoming trendy, (hope i am not repeating anyone hear) does that mean it will become less stigmatized?

yet, the wannabes devalue the real bipolar. double-edged sword?

oh, can someone really become violent because of bipolar? do they kill?

ok, that's all.

i tried to read everything, but may of missed the point somewhere, not uncommon!

thanks!

have a silly putty day!

Kathryn

[blackbunny19]

hello. just jumpin' in. hope this makes sense....

ok, so people want to be bipolar because its trendy.

violent people who murder are claiming bipolar.

do the wannabes hear these stories? shouldn't it make them not want to be bipolar?

and if it is becoming trendy, (hope i am not repeating anyone hear) does that mean it will become less stigmatized?

yet, the wannabes devalue the real bipolar. double-edged sword?

oh, can someone really become violent because of bipolar? do they kill?

ok, that's all.

i tried to read everything, but may of missed the point somewhere, not uncommon!

thanks!

have a silly putty day!

Kathryn

Im just wondering...when did anyone come across anyone on these forums that implied they want to be bipolar just because it's "trendy" or "cool" but doesn't actually have symptoms of bipolar.. I myself havn't met anyone like that around here.

Yeah, some of us want to have such a diagnosis to explain what they are experiencing and learn to accept it, and some people seem to have said that Bipolar would be better than plain old depression, because it would be taken more seriously plus they'd have mania or hypomania instead of never ending depression. And maybe such a diagnosis could help a person learn that it's ok to be different and they don't need to be exactly like everyone else to feel ok. All these types of feelings should be pretty understandable in my opinion.

As far as a person with bipolar disorder becoming violent...uh, yes it does happen. BUT bipolars are no more violent than the general population . And Yes, a psychotic person can become violent due to delusions or voices they hear commanding them, etc. this is usually out of them believing they are defending themselves, BUT it is not nearly as common as most have been led to believe for psychotic people to be violent. In fact it's quite uncommon and they are more likely to hurt themselves.

[Sam]

Eh, stepping back into thread because it got more interesting....

Grouse, I can totally see wanting to be bipolar rather than having MDD. BP can certainly be more dramatic. I mean, my coworkers' favorite spectator sport is watching me freak out.

I feel like using my MI to excuse my failures, too sometimes. I honestly don't think it's true, deep down. You know it's not either. You're a smart and introspective guy.

Anyway, I think the actual point of the thread was non-MIs wishing they were BP because it sounds cool, and would be an excuse for their bad behavior. That would be convenient. The reality of it is they don't understand how much it sucks to be BP or MI, and that's not their fault. They are uninformed.

*****************

gettin' there, I am sure this is exceedingly controversial, but other than crimes of passion, I think anyone who kills is MI. Not that they are not "capable of standing trial" or whatever. But I don't think sane, rational people murder.

I think it is certainly possible that crimes are committed by bipolar people. Hell, we are much more likely to take our own lives than people with MDD because we've got the energy. We engage in "risky behavior" more often, supposedly.

I bet it is a combo of dx'ing BP more as it is better understood, and maybe you are right. Maybe some people use it at a bs defense. But I can see how unmedicated bipolar people could really jack some shit up, you know?

Sam

[JBella]

Whoa. I go to work and come back to the boards nose to nose. I think I'm confused about the what the original question was. I mean, I had a reply, but then I read the whole thread and now I don't know what I was trying to say. :embarassed:

I guess I could say, and nobody freak out, I am just making a statement and I'm fragile now anyways, I thought about what someone said about making yourself bipolar, because you didn't do something about the stressors in your life? I'm taking that with a grain of salt and trying to believe you had an ulterior meaning with that, but, oh god. I wish I were dead. I KNOW its not my fault. I KNOW. I thought I knew. But that smarts. I was not aware that I had a conscious choice in the whole matter.

I have been an addict. It's MY fault I picked up that first cigarette, took that first hit, and swallowed that first pill. I'm acknowledging that, regret some of it, and realize that I have to live with it, but wow I really feel like shit that maybe people feel that I did this whole MI thing to myself.

I really feel like shit.

[Sam]

Whoa. I go to work and come back to the boards nose to nose. I think I'm confused about the what the original question was. I mean, I had a reply, but then I read the whole thread and now I don't know what I was trying to say. :embarassed:

I guess I could say, and nobody freak out, I am just making a statement and I'm fragile now anyways, I thought about what someone said about making yourself bipolar, because you didn't do something about the stressors in your life? I'm taking that with a grain of salt and trying to believe you had an ulterior meaning with that, but, oh god. I wish I were dead. I KNOW its not my fault. I KNOW. I thought I knew. But that smarts. I was not aware that I had a conscious choice in the whole matter.

I have been an addict. It's MY fault I picked up that first cigarette, took that first hit, and swallowed that first pill. I'm acknowledging that, regret some of it, and realize that I have to live with it, but wow I really feel like shit that maybe people feel that I did this whole MI thing to myself.

I really feel like shit.

Bella, Bella, Bella, Bella!

That is not what this thread is about at all, sweetie. It was about non-MIs wishing they were BP and then it turned into non-BP people wishing they were BP to explain their problems away. But that would be a cop-out for them, the non-MI people. Lots of people want excuses for fucking up their lives. But being BP is for sure not something we chose. That is not what anyone said at all.

It was mentioned that a BP dx could be more desirable to some with MDD because first, it would give them a break from depression, and second, because it might be perceived to be taken more seriously.

Chill, sweetie, it's okay.

Sam

[JBella]

I read it. I still feel like shit.

Is it true, though? Do non-MI people seriously think that? Feel free to ignore me, I'm going to go chew on some Seroquel. Yum.

[Sam]

I read it. I still feel like shit.

Is it true, though? Do non-MI people seriously think that? Feel free to ignore me, I'm going to go chew on some Seroquel. Yum.

Hell, I don't know. Like I said before, I've never met any.

Don't let a bunch of stupid conjecture bother you so much, I say, after you have already been really bothered. I promise no one meant to imply that at all.

Be careful,

Sam

*Justifiably hijacking thread*

[ehygon]

I honestly don't think mentally typical people want to have any mental illness, bipolar aside. I think to even want to be labeled as such is a sign that there is something therapy-worthy, disordered or not.

I think that a lot of these high profile bipolar criminals are using it as a smoke screen to avoid being dealt with accordingly. It's so easy to hide behind, because the majority of people haven't a clue about the complex nature of bipolar disorder. That would be like me telling any random member on this board what color hair they have, if I hadn't seen a picture. I could be right, but it's still baseless.

A lot of people are sadly misinformed about bipolar disorder, which is where I see Elvis's comment coming from. Some people have this romantic idea of bipolar meaning you are deep and profound, with lots of passion and an eccentric yet captivating nature. Those who truly suffer from it scoff at this notion. I think Elvis was using cocaine as a reference to the empoverishing, embarassing, degrading, potentially fatal side of bipolar disorder, which people aren't informed about. Bipolar disorder, like cocaine, is not the stuff nightmares are made out of; they are nightmares in themselves.

To clarify for you aly, you are right, to use cocaine is a choice. But to become addicted and lose everything on account of a drug, is NOT a choice. There is no such thing as a crackhead who is pleased by their cravings.

I can understand people wanting a mental illness label. It's hard sometimes, even for normals, and to have a one to four letter term to explain away what ails you is very comforting. Mental illness is not the only thing that adds strife to your life. I think a lot of people don't want to consider a failure in the light of a personal defecit. It stings less to level it with some mysterious mental illness, where no one can point out the truth.

Is this the right thing to do? probably not. Is it acceptable? it seems that way. Disease of the mind is more complex than anyone would like, so it's the perfect fortress to hide from harsh realities.

A few side notes;

1) comparing suffering between individuals is a vulgar act. It's disrespectful and ignorant. I don't recommend doing it.

2) For sam and blackbunny19, with respect to violence and mental illness;

There is sadly some strength to this linkage. There is a correlation between people who attempt suicide/self injure, and verbal/physical aggression.

There's also this concept called "threat/control override" symptoms. This is a link between certain types of psychotic symptoms (thought control, delusions of persecution) and violence. These symptoms are strongly related to the tendency towards violence (2.9 times as likely).

It breaks down like this;

TCO symptoms + major mental illness + substance abuse ; 86%

TCO symptoms + major mental illness ; 63%

no TCO + major mental illness ; 39%

no TCO + no major mental illness ; 17%

so yeah, sadly, the mentally ill population is more prone to violence than the 'normals'. I'd love to source these studies, but these numbers were given to me in notes for a class.

3) The idea of self inflicted bipolar disorder intrigues me. I don't think it could really happen without any genetic element whatsoever, because in my mind that would simply be mimicry of the episode behaviours. I'm pretty sure there are some physiological changes associated with mania/depression which are critical. However I can see a genetically present instability of mood developing into something clinically significant, with the aid of repeated behavioural encouragement.

[blackbunny19]

I really should have said what i wanted to say in my last reply, but i havn;t read that much about it yet and i didn't want to offend anyone. I was only repeating "facts" that i have read so many times. but i agree with ehygone, that people with mental illness are probably more likely to become violent than the general population for lots of obvious reasons, and i was kind've getting sick of people saying "schizophrenics aren't violent, because schizophrenics are humans, remember, and we are as capable of violence as anyone else. And we have the added features of delusions and hallucinations making us believe we are only defending ourselves. Many mental illnesses can bring on out of proportion, uncontrollable anger. I don't know why i said what i did before, i feel like an idiot. but it just makes sense that people with severe drug addictions or severe mental illnesses would be more likely to be violent.

[crazynotstupid]

Geez, I sleep all day and look what happens...A couple thoughts:--Bipolar et al and violence/running afoul of the law. I don't know the studies, but I do know myself. Yeah, most of you ought to know which side of the divide I'm on... AND bp's, who as we know are prone to suvstance abuse, are certainly not unlikely to coommit crimes--drunk driving, theft to support their habit, etc. Cetainly I'm more violent when manic cuz my manias tend to run that way and, I think, largely because of my past.--Drug abuse and bipolar: well hell yeah, there are similarities. A drug abuser gets high, and dending on the drug is in a happy place. Stimulant drugs can give euphoria, etc. And the user wants to keep that feeling and chases it. (and for God's sake, how many times have I seen threads here about wanting hypo/mania for whatever reason? Of course we want the good feelings, and we know the potential consequences) And, when not high, in a sober state of mind, a user may feel depressed, lifeless, and feel self-loathing because of their habit and what it does to them, and what they do to sustain it. God knows, the things I've done...yeah, self-loathing.Anecdote: while in rehab, listening to the meth stories, I felt that what meth users felt was quite akin to manias (specifically, mine, which as I've mentioned tend to involve law breaking and violent behavior). I never said anything cuz I didn't want to offend. Then, one day, the counselor showed a couple videos on bp so the group would better understand where I was coming from. After the mania video, one meth user (a self-described "meth monster") said "hey, that sounds just like being on meth." And why not? Feeling great, little-to-no sleep, paranoia, violence...sjhit, he was a lot like me in my bad times.And yeah, meht et al can ruin your life as surely as any manic episode. This guy lost an awesome car that he loved, with only three payments to go, cuz he spent all his money on meth. So shit, spending problems, and their associated consequences, ruined relationships, a shattered life... in my eyes, could be drugs, could be bp.The big difference, IMO, is that addicts can go clean (not that that's easy or anything) and bp's can get medicated. And yes, while one can choose to start a habit, there is a loss of control after a while. And of course a bp can choose, for whatever reason, not to be medicated. So choices abound on all sides, and while they may look easy, they are always harder and more complicated than they appear on the surface.

[SandDune]

Guess I must be The Grouch under Noemie's dustbin lid number 7-"done some research and the bipolar label fits them better than anything else"

But as Groucho Marx would say, "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would accept me as a member..."

Wow!

That just describes this whole thread so perfectly no matter which way I look at it.

[resonance]

Didn't mean it to be a dustbin, actually...been there myself.

A lot of good stuff being said here.

Two related social issues:

1. People wanting to be bp may do so for different reasons. Different reasons need different approaches.

2. There's a lot of variety among people with BP. Some people have violent episodes. Of those, some are related to BP. Many aren't violent at all. Some are deep, insighful, creative; some aren't. But when we get stereotyped, it tends to classify us as good as we can be, or as bad as we can be. The whole middle range gets cut out. Not even bad like we usually experience it - miserable and messed up - but bad as dangerous. And people freak the fuck out over dangerousness indicators and generalize willy-nilly, and we wind up with people who really can be dangerous not getting adequate treatment and getting stigmatized, and people who aren't dangerous at all getting stigmatized too, and a lot of unnecessarily scared non-bipolars.

So yeah, generalizations. They can be useful, but more useful if tempered with a little individuality. That's some of what I'm trying to do above.

I think we ought to make up and popularize our own bipolar stereotypes. Ones that emphasize a middle ground between artist and dangerous, and ones that highlight the subjective down side of bipolarity.

[seven]

3) The idea of self inflicted bipolar disorder intrigues me. I don't think it could really happen without any genetic element whatsoever,

not so fast. Lamarkian heredity has made a small comeback, eg. Epigenetic inheritance is about, among other things, how environmental factors affecting a parent can result in changes in the way genes are expressed in the offspring.

Another consideration. many more normals have a predisposition or vulnerability than you might imagine. Hyperthymics, nervous people, just plain moody people. But their loving sheltered lives, etc. you can imagine the rest.

Also, for the record, NO MI are at fault for their MI. Free will and choice is a whole 'nother can of worms. you don't want to go there. Especially when one hadn't the benefit of intricate knowledge of theories of bipolar onset and a manual of how to reduce vulnerability.

Question: how can you tell the fakers? the ones who want to be bipolar so bad they study up and fake all the symptoms? they might have a personality disorder. but if meds don't make much of a difference for normals, how would you ever know? Also, could all that faking eventually bring on a real bipolar disorder? you get what you wish for?

And what if they're really deceiving themselves. They didn't mean to fake anything. They think it's real.

just curious,

7

[Velvet Elvis]

I am so tired of the whole Coke thing thrown in to begin with by VE, and this whole debate.

I Have too much real shit to deal with, I just had to go out saying I felt it was really wreckless for anyone in anyway in charge of this board to make light of using drugs to break up the hum drums of depression.

Aly

[edited to reflected the changed context of moved posts]

One more time, bringing it all back home:

I'll try and say some more about what I said that started this whole mess so maybe lightningbolts won't come out of noemie's eyes when she sees another post about this.

Sometimes I think it would be nice to be manic, just to lose control for a while. It's not about escaping responsibilty for actions in the sense of conventional morality or laws. It's the desire to surrender free will. There are greater issues of existential responsibility at play here. I then remember what it's like to lose control, my experience there being coke and crack binges. I guess control isn't so bad, particularly since existential responsibility seems to doggedly hang on regardless of the status of free will.

For more than this I'll have to take some meds.

[Loon-A-TiK]

*Loon has never done illegal drugs in her life or even hit pot*

*Loon has been DXed as BP1 since she was 7 and has a strong line of BP in her family*

I'll never understand any kind of desire from anyone to be BP. I read a study that said that it takes BPers about 3 years to recover their lives after a major mania. My last hypomania was about 2 months ago and it ruined the job I had (not enough work and they got rid of the woman who had missed several days rather than people who had shown up), relationships, put me at risk for STDs, and I got pregnant too. During the major mania of 4 years ago, I left my husband to move 3 states away, using my lover's money to do it. I rented an apartment (on my lover's credit- mine sucks) while I did not have a job, and basically partied my life away for several months. I had no food, got dangerously underweight, and got pregnant. My irresponsible sex during manias has led to 2 abortions. I consider them to be medical, just as medical as any other medical reason. I mourn the loss of my potential children, and this is the worst part of being BP.

The very worst part, as I said, is being totally incapable of rational thought in major episodes. A little mood shift here and there is not jumping from getting evicted to attempting suicide.

Why in the world would anyone want this terrible affliction? They obviously need to spend some time in the psych ward and just observe, and even speak to BP people to discover what we go through.

Oh, we also go through jobs and residences like no tomorrow, have bad credit, and usually struggle with aspects of daily living during episodes.

I am baffled.

[JBella]

Oh, we also go through jobs and residences like no tomorrow, have bad credit, and usually struggle with aspects of daily living during episodes.

You had to bring up credit, didn't you? I've been avoiding paying bills.

BAD LOON!

[CheshireCat]

Thanks for opening up a really interesting topic, Noemie. Lots to think about here.

I have BP on both sides of my family. I can say pretty emphatically that no one wants this. Depression is like living life wearing one of those lead aprons at the dentist's office while wrapped up in a mosquito netting and every thing I've done is worthless and I might as well just drive off a cliff if I had the energy to drive. Mania is the quickest way I know to fuck up my life and the lives of those around me and I might as well just drive off a cliff because I can fucking fly. God help me. God help us. Jeez.

Is that like taking drugs? I've had plenty of conversations with ex-drug addicts and we've had plenty of notes to compare. Hell, I've compared notes with BP friends who were self-medicating on drugs...same deal. Bottom line to me is this...it's all hell on earth. A straight head. That's all we're hoping for here.

The thing that really gets me lately is this...not people wishing to be BP...but people all joking that they're BP...they're nuts...they're hearing voices...they're psycho...they're on meds...they better take their lithium...ha ha ha ha...isn't it funny? I hear it on tv, in songs, from people in stores, on kids' t-shirts, in movies, everywhere! Yeah, it's a real fucking riot. We're all mentally ill. It's just a big joke.

This bothers me. It trivializes it. Someone said to me the other day, "Yeah, she's fine so long as she's on her meds" (giggle giggle) talking about someone else. Yeah. Funny. My meds are making me feel like my hands are made out of pincushions right now and I feel really small at my desk like my keyboard is really huge...it makes it hard to type. My meds make it hard to get up in the morning. My meds...you get the point. Want my meds? Want to joke about them?

That's my rant. I'm sticking to it.

Now have a nice day. I mean it.

Love you guys.

~Cat

[wifezilla]

I understood noemie's reasons and point of the thread (very well thought out btw)...understood VE's comments with no trouble...

Sorry Franny...not getting the point of all the drama.

People compare things based on the information and experiences they have available. If the words/experiences/information are not identical, then give a better example.

Saying "I am offended" ads nothing to the conversation and just stiffles the exchange of ideas.

(CNS...if this is the kind of thing that is going to happen every time you sleep in...well..I am going to have to send you an extra alarm clock!!! )

[grousemouse]

Grouse, I can totally see wanting to be bipolar rather than having MDD. BP can certainly be more dramatic. I mean, my coworkers' favorite spectator sport is watching me freak out.

okay sam, i guess i misunderstood the thread topic. presumably because i had actually started a little thread on something related to this myself.

grouse.

[Velvet Elvis]

I moved the bulk of the OT stuff out of this thread. Hopefully doing so made the thread easier to follow rather than harder.

[bipolarbeary]

Before I was diagnosed, a couple of friends told me that I had the symptoms of bipolar disorder. I thought that sounded more exotic than depression. Little did I know what kind of hell it is. Sometimes I wonder if I'm really bipolar or if I've convinced myself and the doctors that I'm bipolar. But the meds work, so I'm okay with it.

[realitytest]

([onsider this two posts! :embarassed: ]

Very interesting summary, noemie.

I'm confused here, though overall. ( Now, that may well be because I only skimmed most of the prior posts of this thread which has been intriguing me. )

But just to toss in my possibly off-base reading',

Since we've been talking elsewhere about the relative modishness of a BP dx, I see this differently. Not so much as people actively wanting to BE bipolar (except the way some actively want to be amputees, Really! Quite a cult. Google it! ),

It's more a question of why might people prefer being labeled bipolar to something else. Same symptoms, different nomenclature. I can tell you for free that those labeled sz would far prefer their records listed them as BP. . Better still, that the differential dx said they WERE BP! It's owing to stigma, prognosis, and a realistic appraisal about how it looks on the records. This is especially because the increased numbers have made BP far more "mainstream" (and less spooky)

The movie stars helped too, of course..

My older son (poster child of extreme ADD) went to a hyper expensive ADD camp several summers - courtesy of (then) affluent and generous Grandma. I was very struck when I visited, by how many of the kids were quite clearly not ADD - not primarily, anyhow. For one thing, many had extreme cranio-facial deformities and signs of genetic problems.

However, their rich parents far and away preferred their handicapped children be labeled ADD than brain damaged or autistic or (name your genetic defect). Some were sociopathic! Yet the only kid I ever heard of being sent home, was one who was trying to rape the others! That was clearly bad PR.

By accepting these kids into the ADD camp, the director was not only giving the parents desperately needed respite - he was also gifting them with the more acceptable cachet of ADD. This is all the truer now that upwards of 15% of primary school boys are considered (and often dxed ) ADD!

I can easily see something like this happenning with BP.

And another reason (again, need to specify that the pts are not wanting the symptoms, but the label!!) is that most of us get a great deal of comfort out of having a problem given a name. To name something symbolizes from early history, to gain power over it almost magically. Think how "definition" also means a line around something. We can consign an amorphous Syndrome - a nameless Something - into a known set .

Then given modern treatment algorithms, we have also acquired a flow chart of treatments!

The dx also comes with a warm and accepting social circle, on and offline. . How many BP support groups are there compared to others? Google BP support listings someday (compared to say, OCD or self-injury or schizophrenia). Just look at this Board!

I was quite disappointed when I attended NAMI, to find there was not a single parent of a child dx'd as sz - only BP. And most of the books on their recommended reading list, were about BP too.

When it comes to the symptomatology too, it is more "glamorous" (to the general public) to be BP. It's all relative, after all.

Who wouldn't rather be associated with a "mercurial " nature, maybe a bit of the mad genius (as so many famous composers, poets. and other high achievers have reputedly been BP)? That is, preferred over being pictured washing their hands bloody with lye soap, creating "dirty and clean zones" in their houses - or hanging over a toilet bowl puking their guts out - or picking their bodies raw with scabs so deep they can puncture cheeks!

Come on!

It stands to reason.

Nobody wants to have fibromyalgia or Lyme disease, either - but I know several people who have wept with joy when their malady was finally recognized. Even MS! I do NOT think anybody - you should pardon the expression "in their right mind" would choose to suffer with BP - least of all, a severely disabling kind. But there can be a lot or reasons to welcome the label itself, all other things being equal.

rt

***************************************************************

PS One other observation.

. This is about a different group: genuine BP wannabees who have little or no actual connection to the syndrome.

Many people with no special (serious) physical or mental malady, get a lot out of identifying with disabled people - much as noemie outlined. One reason can be overt Munchausen's syndrome, where people enjoy the attention and sympathy of being so identified, This is especially with all the support around, either of those with BP or affected family members. .

And a word of warning - hate to say it, but there are quite a number of fakers on some mental health support boards. Example: I started getting a very bad feeling about a couple on a Yahoo depression board (turned out it had evolved mostly into a forum for survivors of sexual abuse). Man, the mushy gushy poor dear sympathy lavished on these sufferers! (And my heart bled for them. I have no doubt their horror stories were genuine - even the one about detailed satanic ritual abuse. )

It was inevitable that the INAUTHENTIC would join for that reason alone.

(Well…almost no doubt, about….most.)

Then I found that one at least, had lifted her intro post verbatim from a known website, Another's posts contained inconsistencies impossible to ignore. And those are only the ones smoked out!

Likewise, a very different board I was on, had a long narrative posting of a poor young pianist dying of TB (graphic and lengthy, stretching over months). Turned out to be fake. We were so furious! The concern we'd expended on her, the prayers. the reassurances... Many of those who responded (and were deeply worried) have become noticeably more cynical and distrustful in general – IRL.

This is all the likelier on the Internet, of course. Probably we all have experience with some variety of troll. Well, not all are the "pot stirring" variety. ... Just something else to consider when looking at the swelling ranks of the self-identified BP, on or off line.

I am also sure that there are plenty of "support group addicts" claiming to be BP! (Ah!! Just remembered I read about this real phenomenon – there's even a movie about it! )

[resonance]

Nice post. Especially the reminder that wanting the label is different from wanting the symptoms.

That's another reason, that there are diagnoses that BP is "better than". I think it's easy, when we're comparing ourselves to the mentally healthy population, to forget that there are things less socially acceptable than BP.

The amputees! That would be another reason, although I wouldn't think that happens too often. But maybe.

I did some reading on the support group fakers phenomenon a while ago, and I've seen a common phrase for it - "Munchausen by Internet". There are some articles on it out there.

[Sylvia]

rt

your post was extremely helpful to the conversation at hand. Thank you.

MI, in all its various manifestations and horrors, will never be trendy to me. It hurts too much. And my stuff goes back over 50 years, when stigma was debilitating to those trying to cope with their illness.

The other day my mother (who was part of the problem as a child) reads a Life Magazine insert in the local paper about bp, and calls to inform me that I am bp. I told her I would call her back on that. (I'm a tad moody, but I have seen real bp, and that I ain't.)

I have no point to this rant, except to say that it always bothers me when I think people are manipulating others to get attention, in a false way. Although that, in and of itself, is a symptom of some type of problem going on-

I'm being clear as mud huh?

Sylvia

[Guest Guest_realitytest_*]

quickie,

noemie, on amputee sex fetish! Ha! Talk about trendy. Maybe "Boxing Helena" helped it along.

Google under "Amputee Sex" yeields 1.3 million entreis. Page one (almost random):

Japanese amputee sex dolls

Hustler: "Humping Humps"

plus meeting sites, with amputee photos posted. (Just ran into one for "wheelchair babes" too! )

l(VE. PLEASE. A barfie smilie is SO needed)

NO THIS IS NOT WHAT I DO WITH MY SPARE TIME.

BTW the amputee business is two pronged: those who want to BE amputees (usually VERY speific about what imb they want off - they doctors to acompodoate them. The docs often become converts, talkiing about the absolute need to accomodate these poor souls who genuinely require this adjustment! SOme ven try a do it yourself approach and bleed to death or die of sepsis.

As for the post-operatives. They are - get this - HAPPY afterwards. No regrets)

And then there are those who crave sex with amputees!

(At least no requests for fetishist forums here, thus far!) (And you thought YOU were kinky!)

Ha and we speculate about folks who want to BP even WITH the suffering. In dynamic terms, we'd say they psychologically need the adhustment to relieve free floating anxiety. And more.

As for the support group fakers, this is IRL I was referring to. Not online. They go to support groups, sometimes several a week! That one makes more sense to me, tho.

Best,

rt

[blackbird]

I will chip in my two cents worth.

Unbeknownst to myself, I was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder at 14 after an early life of considerable trauma (sister paralysed from the neck down, maternal physical and mental abuse, domestic violence, poverty, both parents alcoholics), nobody ever thought to tell me what was wrong with me, they tried to cover it up and made me feel like an hysterical attention seeker. My peers rejected me, my family were disgusted at me.

This led to a yearning to have my illness validated, to feel like I was a worthwhile person who was ill, not just this sad pathetic attention seeker who was scorned by herself and others. I used to day dream about having a serious mental illness - schizophrenia or bipolar - then I would know what was wrong with me, then people would take me seriously. This mentality led me to destroy my own mental health on purpose - I went out and PURPOSEFULLY developed severe anorexia and bulimia and nearly died because of it. It wasn't dieting gone awry, I knew exactly what I was doing. I wanted to show people how bad I felt on the inside. That was when I was 17, I still suffer from bulimia to this day.

Next I went on an alcohol and marijuana kick - I could feel my mental health deteriorating but smirked at all the dire prognostications issued by doctors until I smoked myself into psychosis. I was addicted to cannabis as an anti-depressant but at the same time I knew that what I was doing was terribly self-destructive but I continued doing it. So my current psychosis is self-inflicted with a degree of intention behind it. WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO BE PSYCHOTIC????? WHO THE FUCK WOULD DO THAT TO THEMSELVES??? Psychosis nearly wrecked my life. It isn't very funny or big and clever looking at it now, and this will surely be a repugnant read to those of you out there with schizophrenia or who have loved ones with schizophrenia but part of me still yearns for the schizophrenia diagnosis - part of me still feels that I am that pathetic loser of 14 who should buck up her ideas and tow the line, part of me feels that the doctors do not take me seriously and denigrate my suffering. At the heart of it all is the terrible terrible self-destructiveness of Borderline Personality Disorder and the inability to stop kicking myself when I'm down.

So all this to say, in my warped view I thought it would be preferable to have schizophrenia (after all doctors take them seriously unlike BPD freaks who they just hate and scorn) than BPD and, like the sad loser I am, I actually wilfully destroyed my mental health to achieve this.

Blackbird (awaiting the deluge of taunts and scorn) xx

PS Crazyboards is great! It is through thought-provoking threads like this that I begin to understand my own pathology!

[Sylvia]

Blackbird

No taunts or scorn here, your post put another face on the issue. Thanks for sharing that info.

Sylvia

[grousemouse]

Blackbird

No taunts or scorn here, your post put another face on the issue. Thanks for sharing that info.

Sylvia

likewise, bb. i think this has developed into a very interesting thread topic. my own thoughts and emotions about it are a total nightmarish turmoil because i too have felt that i needed a diagnosis to help account for myself. i realise that i have very intense emotions about this, partly perhaps because i want to have a diagnosis to help pin down my up and down mental state into a defined condition that can (hopefully) be treated.

grouse.

[Angelwhore]

In response to the stuff about bipolar/psychoticism and crime - I work in a prison, and can confirm that we do indeed have bipolars, schizophrenics and many other types of MI personality disorders. Sadly, things like poor impulse control and irrantional thought are strongly linked to offending behaviour. Additionally, on the serious crime front, low mood is a very common factor in sex offending. And that's just the male estate - the vast majority of the female prison population suffers from some form of mental or personality disorder. Sad, but true.

Perhaps we should count ourselves as the lucky ones who got the help we needed before we got to that point. (Although, obviously, there are many other factors aside from MI that contribute to an individual offending).

[blackbunny19]

Sometimes i worry that i'm faking it and that i just made up all my symptoms. But then i have evidence which tells me this isn't true. For example, i started hearing voices and seeing things on and off when i was as young as 3. I know i wasn't making it up then because i didn't even know anything about mental illnesses at that age. Then, as i continued to get older, i had problems in school and i was diagnosed with ADD, depression, and auditory processing disorder when i was about 9. I remember how ashamed i felt and that i wanted really badly back in those days to be normal. Especially since my sister was so "normal" and High-acheiving.

And when i hit sixteen, i started becoming severely depressed and hearing voices again. Soon i was in and out of hospitals and seeing all kinds of different doctors. That's around the time i started doing my own research on MI. First, i thought i had Schizotypal personality disorder, then schizophrenia, Ocasionally i questioned if I was Bipolar or borderline, or Schizoid, but the schizophrenia seemed to fit the best. and i just kept reading more and more into it. At the same time, my symptoms were getting worse...or did i just think my symptoms were getting worse because maybe i was imagining them all because i was reading about all these different symptoms. Did i delude MYSELF into thinking that trees and objects could talk to me through telepathy, and that the government was following me, etc, etc. Is it even possible to make yourself delusional.

But then I remember how i had been delusional (believed trees and street lights sand such were communicating with me through telepathy telling me the world would soon end) And this belief had seemed so real and it had developed before I ever started reading about schiz symptoms.

So Now i'm always questioning it. Sometimes I feel sure that of coarse im faking it because i remind myself that almost all my symptoms go away when im taking meds, whether i want them to or not. Or sometimes i think that I do have schizophrenia, but all the research and obsessing over it i've done has worsened it--like im just feeding it or something.

maybe the reason i feel like i want to be schizophrenic is all just a form of defending myself. i've had so many problems all my life and i've always been "weird" to people, it's like if im able to accept that i have schizophrenia and not feel bad about being "weird" then i'll finally feel ok about myself.

.....am i making any sense?

Or maybe my only problem is that I have severe depression and i hate the world and so I developed some kind of "schizophrenic personality disorder" in an attempt to escape reality.

Well, i was mostly just thinking out loud, but if anyone wants to comment on this, please go ahead.

[Loon-A-TiK]

it seems too that being BP is the disorder of the day and some people would rather blame BP for their lack of self-control than stand up and say "hey, im a bitch"

[blackbunny19]

..something else i thought i'd add which i hope isn't too off the topic,

my dad constantly questions whether or not my lack of energy and motivation is due to my illness or if I'm just plane lazy. He seems to believe im Faking a lot of things. He gets frusterated on and off. Every few weeks he'll come to me and say "I think it's time for us to both go in together and talk with your therapist" And each time all that winds up happening is he blabbers on the whole session, making assumptions about what it's like to be me and suggesting that im just lazy what not.

He's real irritated with the fact that I am suppporting myself with my College money that my grandmother saved up for me( and which my dad calls "his money") he seems to think i just want to take the easy way out...having "him" support me and i'll never have to work a job and blah blah.

First off, i HATE the fact that I have no energy or motivation and i sit on my ass all day long and i don't have a job. It really depresses me and makes me feel like a peice of shit. So why would i chose to be lazy if i hate myself so much for it.

Second, i could understand my dad questioning this if say, I went out and partied everynight just having a good time, yet i wouldn't work a job or go to school. But that's not how it is. When im off my medication, i can barely leave my house and i completly isolate myself.

Now that my symptoms are improving, i have more energy and motivation and am not so lazy. I also just started college. My dad has been telling me for about a year that if i would just go to school, then he would be proud and satisfied and have no problem with letting me support myself off my college fund.

And guess what....now that i'm in school , of coarse it;s not good enough. Now he's saying it's that I need to be in school AND have a job.

So i know your all thinking, why do i keep letting my dad give me this shit and not put a stop to it. Well, that's because if i don;t agree to do what my dad wants, he'll get very angry and withhold my college money to support myself, and then i'll be homeless.

ok, sorry for my ranting...i know it's kind've off the subject.

Basically my main question is, do you really think a healthy, happy person would choose to be lazy and not have any friends and isolate themselves from the world, and not want to go to school or get a job. Because personally, i believe that "normal people" would want to have friends, have a job and go to school and not fear going into public, and be involved in the world.

[seven]

it seems too that being BP is the disorder of the day and some people would rather blame BP for their lack of self-control than stand up and say "hey, im a bitch"

"bitch" is popular with some "i'm a bitch, i'm a lover, i'm a child, i'm a mother..." bitch is bitchin.

now, if you're a guy (bipolar occurs 50/50), i guess you're... what, an assh***?

the problem with self-control is it assumes you know what's right. ..and the thing is, you DO know what's right. humanity just hasn't seen the light yet..but they will!

i think we're in a phase of history where we haven't defined what MI means in everyday life, beyond the cartoon walls of the asylum. is it the acceptably depressed friend who takes one antidepressant. a little talk therapy for anxiety? is it "crazy" "emotionally unstable" steer clear because they're irrational?

i personally think functioning MI are NOT irrational. so we need to get rid of the archaic notion of "crazy." As bipolar and other MI spill into the mainstream and MTV, maybe the idea of bp will become less desirable and as pedestrian as chronic migraines--you don't want them & you don't judge someone for having them.

And as someone said, hopefully people will Stop Making Jokes About Bipolar and Medication. But maybe one day, the way races can make fun of themselves and gays poke fun at themselves...we can too eventually.

sorry for the tangents, loon. i know what you meant.

7

[wifezilla]

Just wanted to thank all of you for posting your insights and taking the time to outline your thought processes. Information like this does lead to more understanding.

[mel1]

I don't know how relevant this is, but until a year and a half ago, I thought I was non-MI. I thought people who claimed to have depression were weak and just making excuses to be lazy. BP's were totally crazy. People who lived in mental facilities. I never considered or even thought about the fact that when I was a young child, I didn't talk. I had more than one teacher crying about me (very empathetic). When I hit adolescence, I was very unstable and had one friend who was a true friend. My parents were always telling me things to the effect that I "needed to get my head out of the sand". That, BTW, is one of my most hated phrases-right up there with "you should".

Sorry about the extra long Paragraph. I grew up in a house where there were great big elephants in the living room(just to clarify-I mean this metaphorically-I didn't actually see any elephants). I suffered from physical, emotional, and verbal abuse.

Almost all my life, I have had periods of ignorant depression and BP along with crippling anxiety and regular panic attacks. I had many periods when I couldn't work and was told by my "you should" mother that I should get my head out of the sand. She humiliated me by telling me things like a job wasn't going to just fall into my lap. Never knowing that I suffered from severe depression. I believed as I had been told that I was lazy and sitting on my ass.

I guess when you are so used to being a certain way, you think it's normal. So here comes the time I spoke of earlier. I had been going through the motions of being "normal" and then one day I freaked out. Seriously freaked out. Almost went to ER. I had been treated for depression recently by my family doctor and i think I was one of those people who the "black box" warning on AD's is all about. Hence, my dx of BP, MDD, GAD w/ PD.

I have been mostly stable on meds., but I still have dark times where all I do is stay in bed all day. The opposite side of my depression is the dyshoric, mixed-state mania that hurts people around me. And I have been through such hell -OK-I'm finally making my point-How in the name of Zeus can anyone even comprehend and therefore want to be BP.

BTW, I really hate when I hear or read about people who killed someone or molested or whatever- and then- oh yeah- they suffer from bipolar. I cringe to think about being bipolar. It is only recently that I have come to terms with the fact that I am. NO one else in my life has come to terms with this- they don't want to talk about or discuss it( Let's not dispose of the elephants just yet.)

I don't want to be BP. I would never tell anyone except the few people I have to tell that I am BP. Once again, people who want to be BP need to walk in a BP'er's shoes and see what it's like. Then tell me you want to be BP. Sorry for such a long rant. mel1

[lilie]

I absoutely hate being bipolar-except when I love it (I love manias) It's hereditary and annoying and stressful and stupid and debilitating but there are "those times" when the words flow right, the colors come together on the page, socializing is a breeze and I have "hope" for the rest of my life. Then of course I crash and burn.

sigh....

:embarassed: