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Arbitrary and counterintuitive rules of society

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hey y'all ---

I have a question, well more of a rant, about really stupid rules in society.

Take my boss (who happens to practically be my uncle, my father's best friend of over 35 years), whom I've ranted about extensively as of recent.

Even though he's won everything short of the Nobel in his field, he's been sitting in his little bubble of academia (having never worked for a company his entire life) without observing how things are done in the real world, i.e., efficiently and intuitively. I'm not trying to be an arrogant little snot here (well okay I am, but that's another story ;-)), and checked with my father, who works in a similar field (but at a company), and Dad's downright shocked that my boss is using the exact same methods they both used 18 years ago, while the real world has progressed far ahead of him. The 'real world' also includes many of the boss' fellow academics!!

So, I present these ideas to my boss. His only response is *GROAN* "Go back to work, okay? You're wasting your own time now by trying to change things here." When I ask him for a reason, he groans again. =P Strangely, my dad agrees with the fact his best friend's got his head up his ass, but can't do anything about it (for reasons, read this post in Family Feud): http://www.crazyboards.org/forums/index.ph...c=11951&hl=

Boss' response doesn't sit well with me, granted, though my sand has decreased (via DXM prophylaxis?) to the point where I can just roll my eyes at him (perhaps making a smartass but not insulting comment) and leave his office instead of immediately turning beet-red, shaking out of control, and subsequently storming out of the building and back home.

Now, the general rule of thumb here is, "The boss is always right." The boss is indeed right, since the boss controls your salary, and more importantly for me, benefits that pay 80-90% of my currently $10k/yr meds bill. Doesn't matter if the boss' opinion is detrimental to your career, or even his own work!! I don't even expect him to know anything about industrial-style methods - And when I advise him on something he obviously won't know anything about, he'll get insulted, taking the advice as an affront to his intelligence, which is subsequently followed by said archetypal *GROAN* followed by [insert jocular but denigrating comment here]. [hehehehehe I said jocular.]

So let's go on to me trying to fix this situation. I've talked to therapists about this issue, which I've had overall for a few years now, ever since I started doing scientific internships. Most have refused to help me with this, using the opinion that "you're ridiculously smart! I'm not going to convince you out of this!!!". My recent one in Baltimore had a slightly more useful opinion, that I had a "certain sense of entitlement" due to my intelligence, but had no idea how to fix it, and felt that I had a certain entitlement to my "sense of entitlement" (!) but probably should NOT do anything about it, since it'd be useful in the future.

I'm just wondering how to deal with this important yet counterintuitive, and quite frankly, downright angering fact of life. At this point, my only options seem to be to either get brainwashed or medicated (or both) into being complacent, at least for the next 15 months, after which I can go to grad school and be a pain in the ass to my professors. =D

But in short, let me just say that this rate of buildup of sand will be VERY dangerous to me if I can't stop it. And it looks unstoppable at this point, at least through me socially.

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Here's my take.

You're working for Boss in his Bubble of Academia.

Many of his methods are outdated and inefficient. You could help. The result would be a better Bubble.

But Bubble Boss is doing just fine with things as they are. The bosses of his Bubble don't seem to be troubled by his inefficiencies and old-fashioned ways. Evidently, things work well enough that he produces Nobel-worthy work.

From what you've written, Boss isn't going to change. Simply put, he doesn't have to. There seems to be no pressure from above inciting him to change. Sorry to say it, but pressure from below, from someone who has no power over him, is merely irritating. There is nothing in the Bubble that is discomforting enough to make him interested in change. The vast majority of people aren't interested in finding ways to do things better, they would rather stay comfortable. Only when forced by the marketplace or their own bosses will people overcome their built-in inertia and change their routines.

So, how do you survive for the next 15 months? By realizing that you were hired to do a particular job. Do that and that only. When you see the inefficiencies, repeat frequently, "It's not my job, it's not my job, it's not my job..." It's like that old joke, "How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb? Just one, but the bulb has to want to change." Boss isn't going to change until he has reason to want to.

Some day, it WILL be your place to make suggestions and observations about better work methods. But, in this particular situation, it isn't. Save yourself a world of frustration and narrow your current work scope to do just what you were hired to do, and leave the rest alone. You'll both be happier.

Just my $.02


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I normally don't post in this forum, but I don't think your dilema, per se, has anything to do with aspie/autie issues.

This is a common problem for many people in so many different occupations.

It sounds like you have made a pretty fair effort at approaching your boss directly and trying to make him see the need to completely change the operation. He has made it clear that he doesn't want to, and that you are annoying him.

Right or wrong, he is the boss, and its his operation to screw up or run into the ground. Another perspective is that you aren't personally responsible for what happens with the lab.

You have two basic choices:

1. Keep hammering at the boss till he fires you.

2. Accept that you can't directly change things, and find a way to diffuse your frustration and channel your energies into more positive directions.

Under number two, you can take two tacks. Continue your usual good job and introduce incremental improvements, or bide your time till you can get out of there for school or another job.

Believe me I know exactly what you are going through. Ten years ago I went to work for a company that was lost in the 1970's, administratively. They were still typing invoices on typewriters and making manual entries in five registers just to bill and recieve payment for a single invoice. They were losing between 10 - 30% of billings due to inablity to accurately track them. It took me two years and the help of Y2K to drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st century. I had a lot of sleepless nights and angry stomps in the parking lot over dealing with the owner.

Good luck, stay cool.


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Everything that A.M. and Greenyflower said. I also agree that this isn't just an autie/aspie issue, but one that the majority of workers face to some degree.

Whether the reason your boss holds his position is because he's the best one for that position, or for many other more common reasons such as he's been there the longest, he's friends with upper management, or all the other non-rational reasons, it doesn't matter. The boss is still the boss whether he's good at his job or not, and the boss controls your workday, even if he does a lousy job of it.

It's a frustrating part of work that happens all the time across the board. Unless you're able to support yourself without working, you're going to have to get used to it because it's a reality that exists in the working world, whether you work in academia, industry, or government.

Even self-employed people and business owners have bosses that may be jerks, except in the case of those two groups the boss becomes the bank that won't loan you money, the zoning department that won't let you operate your business from your location of choice, and on and on.

Unless your boss specifically asks you for suggestions, you'll be better off to keep them to yourself.

The only thing you can control and change is yourself so it seems your options are to do what you were hired to do, and only do that, or find another place to work. It sounds like improving business methods isn't in your current job description. Keep in mind that most other places you work are going to contain lots of people just like your current boss.

There are lots of places where you'd be fired for continuing to offer unsolicited suggestions, especially if they don't relate directly to your position. It's frustrating, but your situation is unfortunately a common one. It's also good to remember that in most workplaces, the model employee is the one that shows up every day on time and does the job they were hired for, period.

You might find that taking up an active sport of some kind, learning to meditate, or other things that will take your mind completely off work when you're not there will help a great deal. The energy created by your frustration with the status quo needs some sort of physical release or it will consume you.

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Suggestions taken with heart.

There does lie something unexpected here, however. I did not take this job expecting to be my boss' slave. I was told (by a certain individual who's also the boss' best friend) that said the last time he worked for the boss, the boss was open-minded to do good, original research. I should have known - he wasn't the boss' nephew. On top of that... he was brand new to the field when he used to work for my boss 15 years ago. Of course he won't know if the boss was close-minded or not. When I started working in science in 2002, even I didn't know back from front, so I was in no position to argue.

Now, on to calming my amygdala (and hypothalamus in general), which won't shut the hell up. Call it intrusive thoughts. Left cortex is fully aware of the situation, and has told the rest of my brain, "tough shit". Unfortunately, my temporal lobe earlier decided to give my amygdala the idea that I could change something, and then when the rest of the cortex told the temporal lobe "tough shit", the temporal lobe made the grievous mistake of relaying this new message to the amygdala.

Amygdala is now screaming like the Tasmanian Devil. Amygdala not happy. Amygdala wants me to hurt myself or someone else, though the forebrain in general is ignoring it (although the amygdala's function of being able to modify all of my bodily autonomic reactions via the brainstem is wreaking havoc in a purely physical manner at the moment and just pissing me off in general).

I full well know that EVERYBODY, both great and small, famous and obscure, smart and dumb, gets trivialized in the workplace, especially in early employment. I cannot complain that I am the only one subject to this kind of trivialization, of course it's not just an Aspie problem. The difference between an Aspie/Autie and a non-Aspie/Autie in this respect, however, is that the 'neurotypical' individual accepts (albeit grudgingly) the way things are. The Aspie temporal lobe, however, uncontrollably sends the signal to the amygdala, which really causes the shit to go down. A 'neurotypical' takes 'no' for an answer grudgingly; an Aspie will take 'no' for an answer only on the condition that he (rarely she) can at least inform the boss in due time to fuck off. Therein lies the difference - Not in the situation, but in the reaction.

Isn't that strange? Looks like there's some aspect of emotion we can't control (likely mediated by the amygdala), and in many Aspies, it looks like this kind of situation jabs right into that part of the head. Sort of like a "hot-button", it's just that this one is fairly common to Aspies (as far as I can tell). Imagine having a hot-button of yours pushed 40 hours a week.

My hypothesis, anyways.

I'm not making excuses here solely due to a "label" (Asperger) placed upon me by myself as well as clinicians. That'd be cowardly. Well, maybe in fact I am using this label as an excuse. Perhaps I am a coward, well, at least a gnostic coward.

So obviously I need to do something other than sit here in self-pity, or more accurately, incensed bitterness combined with an overriding sense of realism. Time to dissociate. Meditation? Not my cup of tea. Sitting there quietly just lets my amygdala be heard more vividly. That's why I like to generally be with some form of distraction. Distraction, yeah, that's it.

So by distraction, I can try sports. Perhaps. Working out to the point of exhaustion on a daily basis seems attractive right now. It worked last summer. I'm fairly sure I'm in an upswing of an attack of "MS" again, though, as I've been very depressed the past few days and got that jabbing pain in my left occiput again... and I've been sleeping 10+ hours a day with no relief from the fatigue. I'm trying to deny that's happening to me, but part of me (the amygdala again?) is forecasting that the leg paralysis, severe cognitive difficulty, and vision problems are going to ensue sometime soon. And I won't be able to drive to work, and my boss is going to claim I'm getting anxious about work again and that it's all in my head.

Of course it's in my head. My idea is that it's a sort of seizure disorder, or more likely, ischemic brain damaged caused by vertebral malformation-arterial occlusion. That's the only way a problem (pain) in the neck can cause your brain above it to be messed up, right? Anyways, the problem's already done permanent damage. I'm left at a loss to fluently come up with some of the more complicated verbs, adjectives, and abstract nouns/terms.

Still, yeah, distraction. Perhaps I'm thankful that these "MS" attacks often cause me a severe sense of dissociation. Twice, it was enough to turn that lead-in depression into outright euphoric hypomania. I guess that's one way to be thankful for a "curse". This will be interesting driving to work with this, should it happen. Can't be absent, otherwise may lose benefits, as boss doesn't believe I'm actually sick.

Perhaps I should lose my sense of true realism and hyperrationality. On one hand, realism makes my amygdala angry at the world, and the amygdala can't help it - I essentially share that portion of my brain with crocodiles. And you try and calm a croc down when it's mad... On the other hand, the hyperrationality lets me sit outside of myself and look inward... and really, I'm laughing at myself. "What an emotional irrational fool this guy is", I say to myself. Then, I realize it's just my cortex talking about my amygdala, and I don't know if the cortex can shut the amygdala up. Again, very few have been successful in calming a pissed-off croc without shooting it dead.

And the amygdala, it's looking back at my cortex now. And it's saying, *(#%&@(*%&(!!!! HAHAHA WHAT A #(@*%&@#(* INDIGO BRAT!! #&*(@%^@(* SO EGOTISTICAL, THINKS HE BETTER THAN ME (*#@&%(*@&!!! AHAHAHAHA WHAT HE GOING TO DO, PUBLISH THIS SHIT?!?!?! STINKY BEATNIK HAHAHAHA $#(*@*%&@(*&%!!!....,


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I forgot - there was an epilogue to that whole discourse above.

Vagina: "You wouldn't believe how full of sand I am today."

Cortex: "What the... I don't even believe you're actually here! Look look, I know that our manly hormones are a little low, maybe because the HPA axis is slacking off a little bit and hell, we might even be dealing with some chromosomal abnormalities... but really... this is RIDICULOUS!!!"

Amygdala: ME SO HORNY!!!! *(#@$&%(*@#&%*(@!!!

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Okay y'all...

I'm going to put in ONE more thing here.

I'm going to critique the logic (not the people, the logic!!) presented to me beforehand.

1) "This isn't just an Aspie problem!"

2) "It's normal, so you'll have to learn to deal with it."

As I indirectly implied above, 1) and 2) are non sequitur assuming you're dealing with an Aspie/Aspie-like individual. Like me. The relevance of 1) with 2), in that case, is ambiguous. When you state it's not just an Aspie problem, you have co-implied that Aspies are capable of dealing with it. I'm sure that logically it's possible for Aspies to deal with it, it's just not a definite conclusion, though.

Now, if anybody out here is an Aspie himself, or has dealt with Aspies in similar situations, then I'd love to hear how the archetypal Aspie should deal with this.

The implication here? Read my Kerouacesque rant a post or two above. If you ask me, we Aspies don't respond to this type of insult as well as the 'neurotypical' do. That's not a coverup excuse for our response, just a statement that an Aspie's involuntary psychophysiological response (to much extent) will be drastically different than that of a 'neurotypical'.

As again said above in my very large rant, I can easily tell you this looking into me from the outside but have a great difficulty effecting this type of change in myself. (If any of y'all are familiar with the late 80s/early 90s US sitcom "Family Matters", I'd like to relate this situation to perhaps the show's most popular character, Steve Urkel. When faced with the requirement of learning how to swim at his university, he told the instructor all about the freestyle stroke, but at the end, admitted he only knew all about it, and not how to actually do it!). I suppose part of the issue, then, is that I'm having a visceral, only semi-controllable reaction that's a huge issue to surmount. And some elements (within me and within those I know) discourage me from fighting the urge to better my career.

just sayin',


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Of course, these ancient and aging NT professionals are forgetting in their encroaching senility that many of

the "reasons" for "NO. We are NOT going to try your idea out, go back to work!" are things that are totally

invisible to an Aspie.

1. Budgetary, and that includes man-hours, constraints that

the boss has no intention of discussing with lowly peons

the boss' boss has no intention of discussing with lowly peon's lowly boss or worse! - assumes

he's familiar with already

no one has a clue about

2. Boss knows it's right, tried it before and got stonewalled and doesn't want you suffering the same

mistake/sand/etc. OR got a go-ahead and it blew up. badly.

3. NT boss "intuitively knows" (massive chunk of unwritten rules, processed in background) the havoc

change plays with NT and Aspie brains (the staff ADDers will just go "huh? did I miss something?")

and the amount of irrational resistance or runaway proceduralism or other misbehaviors that

will ensue.

This is called "management expertise"

4. NTs HATE bright people that they THINK are very much smarter than they.

5. If you think "office/academic politics" is bad on a normal day - try something that will catch the

(in)Human Resources or (barely)Legal Departments into the process. They are the ultimate

bastions of irrational rules that no one else knows about and gets a headache just thinking


They've also forgotten to suggest:

1. Say 'Yes sir. I understand there are some issues I'm not aware of. Maybe sometime

we can discuss them when you've more time"

2. Go back to work

3. Go home.

4. Document the problems you see and the solutions you would like to implement.

5. Research them on your own time anyway.

There's no sense in forgetting the good stuff and less sense in letting the company/uni claim the

credit/proceeds when you publish/invent.

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You have given an excellent and concise discussion of the reasons behind why Any manager might not want to deal with changes being suggested.

Now in doing this you took one step further back from the original questions that herrous has asked and placed at forefront.

Again, I don't see anything in these points or their discussion that is specific to being aspie. Instead its that herrfous did NOT ask 'Why wouldn't my uncle want to change the lab?", rather he asked "Why won't my uncle listen to me, and why can't I deal with it?".

Honestly, I think this is more a matter of Herrfous learning to take a broader view of an organization, taking time to consider other considerations, or even learning what other considerations there are than simply the idea of having a state of the art lab. This is normal learning curve for anyone starting out in business. The other portion is learning to have patience and accept rejection, and understand that idealism usually must bow to a host of practicalities.

While this is a phrase that can start fist fights in business or engineering meetings, nonetheless it has a large kernel of wisdom: "Better is the enemy of good enough".

Nullo main thrust, which I agree with, is that the rejection is most likely not a matter of the uncle being the sole roadblock based only on his personality or whim. Rather there are business/management reasons why he isn't entertaining recommendations. If herrfous wants to become familiar with adminstration then he should volunteer for administrative duties in the lab. Volunteer to attend meetings (and keep a closed mouth during and after) if nothing more than to take notes or run the graphics program. This would be with the long term goal of learning the system and eventually making a difference years down the road.


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Thank you null. I think this is the only Aspie-oriented response I've gotten, rather than people just accusing me of being arrogant and telling me "tough shit". (Edit: Also, thank you AM for your rectification of the situation.)

And no, I'm not naming name/s here, but it should be painfully obvious whom I'm a little bit more than irked at.

(Edit #2, also for AM: I have been trying to get involved in the admin/grant issues, but he's pretty much doing the *GROAN* STFU & GBTW in reply to that. Don't want your 7 year old anklebiting nephew to get involved with something THAT important, after all. ;-))

We do NOT take "tough shit" for an answer, and yes, we often suffer the consequences. "Tough shit" makes no sense to me, and I physically cannot understand "tough shit". There are more Aspies in the unemployment queue and even on the streets than any of y'all would like to think.

I think I've caused misunderstandings here with y'all NTs, too. I guess I implied that I was superiorly intelligent. That was the wrong term, and I'm recognizing from the responses that I totally came off as something I did not want or intend to come off as. Whether I'm intelligent or not has nothing to do with the situation. One thing I am, however, and I WILL be COMPLETELY arrogant and egotistical about this, is that I'm innovative and 100% unaccepting of the status quo. Take that as good or bad, but I'm very proud of this trait I have. I do NOT take well, hell, I don't take this at all, to have '*GROAN* STFU & GBTW' as the reason for my innovative ideas to be wrong. Following this, again, I physically CANNOT take "tough shit" as the rationale for me having to STFU & GBTW.

(For what it's worth, I WILL take "budget constraints" and "time constraints" as answers. Not answers I particularly like, but answers I can rationalize into my head and eventually cope with. Thank you, null, for reminding me subconsciously to bring this point out.)

Back to my intelligence. On second (or third thought), I'm not really intelligent at all. At least if you're to believe IQ tests (though I'm not sure how helpful THOSE are). I'm just going to say flat-out, if it makes any difference to y'all (to some extent, "holier-than-thou") NTs, that my IQ, as tested a year ago, was around 110. I believe that puts me somewhat above the sorted median (which I think is always 100) and a good deal below the arithmetic mean for IQ, which I want to say is currently 115. I was an A/B student through all of school. Above average, maybe, but not a 'genius' and certainly enough to make me recognize that I'm not 'holier-than-thou'.

That's why I'm posting this in the Aspie forum, not the "tough shit" forum. I need some understanding and ways I, as an Aspie, can cope with the situation. Not to be lectured about how arrogant I come off as.

I'm going to be brutally honest here, and it's something I don't normally do as I tend to sugarcoat everything as to not offend people (I know, an un-Aspie trait, but I've learned to be socially manipulative enough as to not anger people): My statement here is Some, if not most, of the things said in response to my problem were not only unhelpful, but also grievously offensive. I did NOT have a pleasant reaction to them, and quite frankly, most of the things said here grated my nerves enough to, for much of the time and the present, drive me up the wall with enough sand pouring out of me to have saved New Orleans from Hurricane Katrina. Adding to that, I'm not sure everybody who responded read everything I wrote. I don't care if y'all NTs think I'm whining, I just want the take-home point to be letting y'all know what I think about this whole deal.

Yes, I did come up with some potential coping strategies, but I'm ambivalent as to whether they'll be effective. My entire post was NOT (just) passive-aggressive ranting. I suppose from now on, I'm going to "bold" my bullet points, as I often tend to rant semi-OT and threadjack myself. Maybe another Aspie trait, and hey, one I've found an effective coping mechanism for (the bolding thing, obviously). So none of y'all have a right to lecture me about THAT, in any event.

I'm not NT, so attempting to cope with this particular situation exactly as NTs do may most likely be counter-constructive. And I'd rather not take 'coping' hints that are obviously exclusive to the NT, especially when presented to me in such a self-righteous, insensitive manner.

Mods, please lock this thread. I'd like it to stay visible instead of erased so that NTs can still read it and learn to not barge into Aspie threads if all they want to do is almost purposefully go pushing the Aspie's hot-buttons instead of being helpful in an Aspie-compatible manner. Perhaps it should be placed at the top of this Aspie forum under the title "How NOT to reply to an Aspie". If an NT doesn't know how to do properly reply, then I'd rather not the NT reply AT ALL in a condescending manner to ANY Aspie posting ANY Aspie-related issues in this forum.

I know this seems a little 'out-of-character' for the normally jocular (and I'm not going to laugh at 'jocular' this time, I'm in no mood for it) and tactfully rational herrfous. This time, though, I need my opinion to be clearly and lucidly heard so that nobody else gets hurt.

And by the way, this is the last time I'm discussing my employment issues (at least in modalities where they pertain to me not getting along with people and my 'unacceptable' and 'arrogant' opinions implied therein).

Now returning to the regularly scheduled flamewar,


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I'm posting this in a separate reply.

Mods, I want y'all to SERIOUSLY check to see if there's a TOS violation here from ANY of the replies. I mean SERIOUSLY and morever, OBJECTIVELY, as a lawyer would. DON'T LISTEN TO ANYBODY ELSE, or even each other, when doing this. There might not be any violation, and I'm not trying to whine, but if there is a violation, action ABSOLUTELY NEEDS to be taken in line with the TOS and policies of CB.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation,


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I can tell that you are worked up over the discussion.

I don't believe that anyone has intended to anger. I have no idea that aspies have hot buttons.

Everyone replied with factual and practical answers. No psycho babble, or platitudes.

Unfortunately, no one can give you a instant answer for how to resolve the inability to drop the issue.

This general issue of dealing with superiors is one that is important because it will be with you through your career.

The advice I was given when I first started working was: "Take your job seriously; don't take your self seriously".

You have great ideas and energy, but have much to learn.

And the bottom line: When a superior makes a decision and indicates it is final, you cross him at your peril. And you don't have the right to demand an explanation or justification.

Good luck resolving the frustrations of work. It's a never ending struggle.



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I'm posting this in a separate reply.

Mods, I want y'all to SERIOUSLY check to see if there's a TOS violation here from ANY of the replies. I mean SERIOUSLY and morever, OBJECTIVELY, as a lawyer would. DON'T LISTEN TO ANYBODY ELSE, or even each other, when doing this. There might not be any violation, and I'm not trying to whine, but if there is a violation, action ABSOLUTELY NEEDS to be taken in line with the TOS and policies of CB.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation,


Per your request I'm putting this thread up for other mods review & action. Below are the forum rules, unchanged since November 2005.


The Aspie/Autie Forum Rules:http://www.crazyboards.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=6129&view=findpost&p=69765


- If you are not autistic, tread lightly.

- This is not the place to complain about auties and how difficult they are.

- If you have problems with an autie and need support or to rant, go to one of the other appropriate forums.

If you:

- Have an autistic familly member, or

- Think you may be autistic and have questions (self diagnosis is dangerous; don't get cyber-hypochondria),

You are welcome to discuss those issues.

Again, this forum is specifically for autistics as a haven from all those strange social people.


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I guess you're angry at me. If the mods of this board think my reply should be deleted or I should be banned, please ask them.

That's their decision and not mine. I'm not going to pursue that any further, ball's in their court now.

Yes, I am an asshole.

Fair enough, though I think that fact went without saying. I think all of us MI folks are more prone to that, and it'd be a lie if I told you that I myself have never been one. And I'm in no position for me to criticize your personal diatheses, as you can fix them no more than I can fix my extreme irritation towards 'STFU & GBTW'.

I argue that responses to a real lif question should be aspie based anymore than they should be bipolar or OCD or schizophrenia based. I don't understand most people and their weird motivations.

I see your point there, too. That said, I'd personally (and this is just me!!) refrain from telling an OCD that they need to shut up and stop being compulsive. Or a schizophrenic/other assorted psychotic that they're stupid and to stop believing their magical thoughts. Or a depressive to "suck it up and get the fuck over it". Or an LFA that they should stop being such an asshole. Or, for that matter, to go on a cancer forum and tell someone to go de-mutate their copy of the p53 gene instead of 'whining' about their terminal disease.

Again, their diatheses, not all their fault - The only fault is behavior, not attitude (if you ask me). The only thing I could possibly have one inkling to encourage is to watch one's outward behavior. I try that as much as I can, and it doesn't always work.

I know tact is a huge problem among MI (as I implied above in us being assholes), but really, give me a break.

However, the answer to your issues is STILL the same. You can whine, cry, wish things were different. and waste all sorts of mental energy (as I have) on this problem, but the answer is still the same. Shut the fuck up and/or move on.

Frankly, I don't feel like checking my SLC6A4/SERT gene (highly implicated in Aspies and various comorbid depression) for mutations and attempting to perform self-gene therapy. The boss may not like it, after all. ;-)

I'm also not going to tell you to quit being a fucking asshole. That's a slow process for you to try and fix, though it seems you're in no hurry to fix it, even though you damn well know about it. And I don't mind you whining about it on CB, that's what we're all here for. And I know tact isn't your strength. But now you know to get your own post to whine in and not turning people with other concerns to a crisp. Perhaps you can only logically reconcile this and not emotionally, just like I have issues with my own attitude?

That's fine by me, I'll accept your attitude, although if that's how you REALLY feel, I would in turn highly encourage you shut the fuck up and quit being such an asshole, and as you have indirectly implied, make everybody on CB, and moreover, my life/lives a little easier. You give to me, I give to you.

This is not a permanent position for you and yes, you're going to end up in this same situation your whole life. I have. And the best thing to do is shut up and move on. Wasting time on deaf ears is not good for anyone, and is not productive.

Advice taken. Maybe not processed, but taken. I can shut up and move on as much as you can stop being such an asshole. Just to give you a good analogy so you can get this into your head.

Deaf ears? I haven't had that issue on CB so far. Perhaps you should get your hearing checked.

As I said though, I'm not aspie, I don't get how ragingly stupid people are either, and I don't think aspies are so handicapped and unaware of the world that they need to be coddled to with "aspie" answers.

I understand how you feel, but I think you just disproved your credibility by saying you weren't Aspie and you "think" you know how we feel.

I surely don't do that with my husband, and I think he'd be insulted if I did.

Being coddled is a bad thing indeed, and I'm happy you're not doing this to your husband. I don't need reassurance that "it'll be okay", I just need practical advice. Being told "it'll be okay" does absolutely nothing for me. Even if an Aspie or someone who can prove they know how to deal with this issue (I know you're married to one, but given that you're coming off as somewhat of a jerk, whether you can help it or not, makes me doubt your ability to interact with jerks of equal caliber) suggests something useful to me, I'll take it to heart - Hell, even if it's something unorthodox like transcendental meditation! (I have considered trying that, FWIW.) "Shut the fuck up" is NOT practical advice, as much as "Shut up and quit being such a fucking asshole" would be practical advice from me to you.

I'm searching for a way to calm myself, and not going around and irritating OTHERS because of my unbridled tendencies. I'm sorry you're stuck with a tendency that's detrimental to both yourself as well as others. Again, my sympathies.

Hell, do you know what kind of wedge that puts between people on this board let alone people in the real world? If I got, "Well, that may be true for you, honey, but I'm as aspie so it's a lot different," I'd probably be divorced by now.

At the very least, you've got a 2x4 stuck in your eye. I'd like you to consider how your behavior in general on this board has made people feel. End of that topic.

And, I'm suuuuuure if all you did was told your husband to shut the fuck up instead of encouraging him to seek actual helpful advice, that would not drive a wedge into your relationship. I'd hope not, otherwise I suppose you've got an interesting relationship going on.

And about the intelligence thing, I am only responding to how you presented yourself. I'm not saying to act stupid, but what you wrote sounded arrogant and somewhat pompous and can be very tough to deal with. I know this because I'm like that. "You will comply because I know better than you." There are a few things in life I am 100% arrogant about and that attitude uniformly serves to only anger people. I was a lot worse when I was younger. Now that I'm older I see why I pissed so many people off. I also see how stupidly naieve that arrogance was, and that I should have listened more to people that bristled at my obviously superior intelligence.

Okay, I agreed I misrepresented myself in my initial post(s), judging by responses from you as well as others. Honestly, I absolutely do not agree that youthful arrogance is an entirely destructive scenario. I'm just saying from personal experience, and I'm not speaking of my own alleged arrogance, either.

I've met so many teens (say 13-18) that are far better than I am at analyzing the situation and coming to conclusions. And if they tell me I'm wrong, and their reason makes sense, I indeed do shut the fuck up myself. In fact, my younger cousin (13) puts me back in my place on a regular basis (fortunately, without an attitude). But maybe it's just because I'm too open about things, and it might also be that I have too much of a small sample size. Or that I'm a total idiot. Honestly, I'm far more worried about the arrogance of senility than I am the arrogance of youth, and that I'll turn out just like intractable individuals like my boss if my 'intelligence' ever goes to my head.

My real conclusion of that point was that from what I've seen, youth generally equals flexibility equals innovation generally equals bettering this world. I'm much less useful than I was 5 years ago. Sad, but true. Biologically, due to decreasing neuronal network plasticity? Maybe. And some individuals, as they age further, tend to become relatively useless, especially if their job is to think and plan tomorrow's cures.

I'm not really sure what else to say. I hope you figure out better as you get older how to live in an irrational world because, unless you move to Autistic Spectrum Island, it's not changing. Same for all of us that are MI, we're crazy and we have to deal with the world in it's paramaters.

Am I also living on Asshole Island? I suppose I'm going to learn to deal with assholes, as well, if they can't control themselves from acting like total jerks. I'm deadly serious here. Probably will work on that first before I start to figure out how to deal with stubborn individuals who may hinder my career.

No one cares that we're sick. The world does not give a shit that there are times when getting out of bed to take a piss is a herculean effort tantamount to running a 3-minute mile. No one gets it, no one gives a shit after awhile. We still have to learn to live in the world that is here.

I don't know, I tend to care and work with people, at least as far as I know, I could be wrong (until these individuals become assholes towards me). Yes, it's irritating, but you have to have sympathy for a diathesis. I've said that time and time again before. Idealistic, I know, and not everybody in this world cares. Most of us on CB tend to care, and you're an obvious exception, judging by your previous writings. This makes you, I suppose, a good example of most of the population.

And honestly, I would like to sincerely thank you, susanb, for giving me direct practice in dealing with the (even self-named) assholes that you deem most of the world's population to be.

really, it's been a blast,


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herrfous -

Sorry if pissed you off or upset you, that was never my intent. You asked for advice, and I gave it a shot as best as I know how.

I still think moving on would be the best thing to do if you can pull it off as your job is obviously taking a toll on you and I hate to see anyone suffer, which is why I responded to your post in the first place.

And no, I'm not an aspie, although I often run pretty close to the line so am familar with the frustrations thereof. My oldest brother is a full-on aspie so I've also witnessed the often painful way that he's treated by the rest of the world.

Again, I apologize for making you mad or offending you. Good luck with what ever solution you choose.

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herrfous -

Sorry if pissed you off or upset you, that was never my intent. You asked for advice, and I gave it a shot as best as I know how.

I still think moving on would be the best thing to do if you can pull it off as your job is obviously taking a toll on you and I hate to see anyone suffer, which is why I responded to your post in the first place.

And no, I'm not an aspie, although I often run pretty close to the line so am familar with the frustrations thereof. My oldest brother is a full-on aspie so I've also witnessed the often painful way that he's treated by the rest of the world.

Again, I apologize for making you mad or offending you. Good luck with what ever solution you choose.

I'm not offended, and thank you for the apology.

Move on, move on is the key. Trying to find ways to do that. It's my only option, as I'll never rationalize this situation (as it inherently makes no sense). That said, "moving on" might require me to physically change something *up there*, though there are many techniques to fix that issue. Exploring those at the moment.

I just remembered that I did in fact try transcendentalism a couple days ago (differs from the layman's meditation, often focuses on full mind/body dissociation rather than mind/thought dissociation, allegedly helpful when your body is half the problem). It did actually help me, at least during the alleged 'transcendental' period. Though I think I need to be a little more careful with that next time, apparently according to the Ndoc there exists the possibility of me having TLE issues. When I tried it, I think it worked a little too well, as after I opened my eyes, I was incredibly out of it for the next couple of hours. Thank God I didn't have to go to work at that point or drive anywhere else, for that matter.

Back to the topic at hand. Any idea how your brother deals with these issues? I'd really like to know, as I pretty much don't really know any Aspies face-to-face, so people I know personally are at a loss to come up with hints other than "wow that sucks, I know how it feels". Good to hear the sympathy from others, but not so helpful. So if you have hints from your brother, I'd love to hear.

yeah anyways,


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I think I might have something to say, but I might not have it figured out while I have time this morning, and then I'll be busy until tomorrow. Something's been wandering around a bit in the back of my head, though. I'll see if I can make the words work.

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