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im being a right little bitch at the moment and nobody knows it but you guys cause i am making a confession style post. my borderline personality wants to laugh my head off at the situation and how pathetic guys are but that sane voice in my head tells me i should be ashamed off myself, but still ...

i have a boyfriend of 2years i love him and do not want to leave him.

but i am currently talking to 4 other guys, all of whom i have slept with at some point in time, all of whom want to be more then just friends with me and none of them know about each other or my serious boyfriend. i lead them to believe that they are REALLY important, special and needed when really i dont care at all.

so yes that is a total of 5 guys.

its like i am ADDICTED to the game. i like to make them like me, then when they like me and they want me i like to play games with them and if they dropped of the side of the earth tomorrow i wouldnt care because i can just as easily replace them. everyone but my boyfriend who is the only one who wont play games with me which is why i guess i actually like him.

does this sound really borderline to you? i have been dx borderline but i find treatment for these kind of behaviours real hard cause im not on any meds for it at the moment, and the beliefs that caring on these kind of behaviours is ok is so deeply rooted in my brain all CBT and therapy for it i have laughed through. not a very good attitude to have to what i guess from a rational person point of view would be a not very nice thing to be doing to other people.

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In my opinion (I'm not entitled to give any diagnoses, I'm not a doctor, just a misguided soul searching for answers), you definitely have some sort of personality disorder behavior issues.

However, it's far from typical borderline behavior (which is more based on acting on impulses and not elaborate cheating like you mentioned). I'm thinking along the lines of narcissistic and/or histrionic personality disorder. With sort of "seduction addiction" on top of it.

One's for sure, I wouldn't like to be in your (primary) BF's shoes. You're ruining his life by playing your games. Basically. If what you're saying is true, you're a total ass and proud of it. Yes, a psychologist would call it in a more formal way, but the general picture is just that.

Something to think of is that what you do may cause you a lot of problems later in life. Maybe actually getting through some therapy would give you more good than harm - although, honestly, finding someone to let you unlearn NPD/HPD/antisocial behaviors may be tricky.

Your story has an element that's even more worrying. You said you had a couple of psychotic episodes, with hallucinations and other scary elements. This kind of stuff can basically kill parts of your soul, making you more likely to show a particular kind of behaviors. Note: it doesn't mean that several psychotic episodes are going to make you socially disabled - they can, but most often they don't. Which means, for example, that if you get married, your marriage may be found void. So I hope it's not a purely biological untreatable cause.

Keeping that in mind, human brain has a some degree of flexibility, and during a decent therapy you might learn how to use your rational part to compensate for (say) crippled empathy, or get a sort of "addiction" that's less harmful than this relationship crap (I mean computer games or role playing type of addiction, not getting addicted to illegal chemicals and such; basically, a way to get the similar excitement in less harmful way).

Okay, that's probably not what you wanted to hear, but maybe at least you'll have some ideas why and where to start.

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im not going to defend what i do in anyway because deep down and in that sane part of my mind i know this is not constructive behaviour!! i could try and justify it or dumb it down but really who is that helping obviously not me cause it is just a cycle of nagative SELF destructive behaviours.

i got diagnosised borderline last time i was in hospital i think mainly cause i cut and burn and self injure on a regular basis. these relationships are not the only self destructive personality flaws i have.

I have an eating disorder i am really proud of when i am skinny, but when i am fat from it i hate it. another product of a shaking personality and altered view of reality.

Yeah i feel REALLY bad for my primary boyfriend. truly i love him as much as i know how. sad thing is i dont know how to love him any better then what i am currently doing. and he knows that, he is not stupid he sees through a lot of my crap and knows about all of illness.

now i would love to tell you all a sad story about how i was abused, or neglected, or some such thing to explain away my hideous behaviour but guess what i have no excuse. i truly am just a really sad and sick person making HORRIBLE choices that not only screw my life up but also the people around me.

i disagree that my behaviours are not reacting to impulses. because i get the urge to do something and i just do it, with very little thought of consequences. while the relationships in my life are a tangled web there is no plotting or planning in any of what i do. it all has little or no reason behind it which is why i have no idea why i continue to do. mainly it is out of fear that if i do not protect myself people will get me. so i put myself in a position where i can get them first. i hope you can understand what a sad and lonely place that is to be in. not having anyone to trust.

yes i do think i am a total ass but no i am not proud of it. if i was i wouldnt be posting on this board a confession to a problem i want help with. a serious problem that could see me not only hurt myself phyiscally and mentally but a lot of other people as well. I said i laughed through CBT and other therapy cause it just doesnt help, this is a deep seated problem. i came here wanting help for a problem. but im strating to feel like that whole thing about stereotypes is true. Yes my behaviour is repulsive, i accept that, i accept people dont like that behaviour, but that doesnt mean that i dont deserve help! thats the crap thing about personality disorders, when you tell people the nasty parts, the truth, the heart of your problems people react very differently then they do to people with other illness.

Believe me if this was something i thought i had some control over i wouldnt of posted here seeking help. im not proud of this i want help. im scared.

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sorry if i am sounding like an idiot my head is just a mess of thoughts and drugs and just negativity.

i never ment for my first post to sound like i was proud or anything.

i just feel like im hitting my head into a brick wall they last two weeks, i want to cut again, i have been making myself sick, ive been admitting to all the horrible things i do that sweet nice me should never have revealed to anyone. im having hallucinations, my thoughts are completely delusional most of the time, i have an extreme bad flu and tonsilitis i am on mega strong antibiotics as well as my normal meds. i havent mensturated in 3months (no i am not pregnant) im just a mess.

no excuse for my behaviour, im just trying to find some peace or guidance. something. something to see me through til my next docs appointment with out going to the hospital.

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Well, you first sounded like you fully accepted the practice of cheating on 5 people at once. If that's not the case, then the dreaded HPD/NPD/ASPD diagnosis is less likely to be true. Which is actually good, as (I think) BPD is much more treatable than, say, ASPD. If getting a therapy for personality issues was your own choice (and not forced by your family or something) then NPD and ASPD is VERY unlikely.

Cutting and such is a typical borderline behavior, but it's not limited to just borderline, and making a borderline diagnosis based on just that one thing is stupid. And if you're psychotic, diagnosing a personality disorder at all is a somewhat fishy issue. It's like diagnosing blisters when you're on fire.

I must agree about therapy effectiveness - too often therapy just doesn't work (and not everyone has a lot of choice - geographical and other reasons). If you're mainly struggling with uncontrollable habits/urges, then you at least have some chance of success. Losing fights with sucky behavior and being proud of sucky behavior are, luckily, quite different. And sucky behavior on top of psychosis (and post-psychotic brain wreck) is something incredibly frustrating, because motivation is worse and judgement may be worse and impulse control gets rather weak. That's why recovering from psychosis (as much as possible) is the absolute priority. I don't know how your life looked like before first psychotic episode, but if it was all fine, then BPD diagnosis is a pure bullshit.

Anyway, good luck with looking for a proper therapy - you will need lots of luck, as the therapy landscape is filled with junk. Luckily, some meds help with both eating disorders and BPD (topiramate is the one I can remember now), but I'm not sure if you're not already taking them. Anyway, if psychosis is under control and one type of therapy doesn't help with BPD behaviors, don't give up, try another when you can. It really depends. Definitely, improvement is possible, it's a question of how, not if.

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First of all, don't beat yourself up because of what I say here. That won't help you change.

However, I wanted to say that unless these guys are emotionally very strong, you are going to (or have) caused them a lot of pain. If they are emotionally strong they will probably see through the whole thing.

I also think some other exciting activity might help, but I don't know much about this kind of thing.

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the signature is a very common joke, and it is there to take a stab at my personality.

the guys who are involved in this situation are no sweet angels. and quite frankly they wouldnt care if i dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow either. so you can pity them all you like, i know two wrongs dont make a right but these guys are by no means little innocent victims. so you are right they would see through it most like, and they would most likely enjoy the attention.

3 of the 4 guys i still talk to are ex boyfriends. one of whom beat the shit out of me, thats why we broke up. the other 2 were very emotionally abusive. but instead of being a victim of their abuse and just walking away i made a stupid choice to act on impulses and call them up when ever i am feeling lonely and hurt just so i know i really am a horrible bad person. because i dont have anyone else.

yeah i know you probably think serves you right stupid bitch, but posting replies to me that just make me feel worse about what i am doing then i already do feel is pointless. i know i need help for these self destructive behaviours and behaviours that could hurt other people, but telling me i am a shit person with no self esteem isnt going to get me any help and i already know im an ass, im trying to learn ways to not be like this and get the same unjudgemental advice that other people with mental illness on this board do.

So thanks herpie for your constructive advice. it took so much for me to come here and actually post this and i know it goes against the general tone of the problems on this board where people are not "evil" like me.

anyways thanks to the people who can respond to this post and not judge me but offer advice. it certainly has given me a better understand of what it will be like to tell a doctor about this.

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Heh. Now you definitely should have some idea how to talk to your doctor/therapist - or how not to talk to them. Posts like the original one are definitely going to provoke judgemental responses. Telling one side of the story (regardless if it presents you as a "poor soul abused by asshole ex'es" or as an "insensitive asshole who abuses poor guys") is not going to help when you're dealing with less competent therapists. The more competent ones may "see through it" and interpret it in context of possible diagnoses.

Of course, this all-extremes-no-middle-ground thinking may be a part of BPD or HPD (please someone correct me if I'm wrong), but _maybe_ you should try to (as rationally as you can) write down a couple of versions of your "story" on different days (depending on mood, you will probably pick different features each time), and bring them all to the therapist (if he's too busy/lazy to read them all, try to make a balanced version/true middle ground between the extremes, although it may compromise objectivity).

Or, if you want, just print out this thread and show it to him. I bet he/she can guess some personality features by just reading your posts and/or your reaction to our posts (well, I'd surely want to be diagnosed based on my behavior "in the wild" as opposed to "in doctor's office").

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honey, don't let me tell you how to run your life. but i am dreading hearing how this ends.

do it the hard way, right now. kick the fucking personality monsters in the arse. if you were a guy and i wasn't offended by such misogynistic comments, i'd say "be a man". this is going to come around and bite you.

call each of the other guys up. tell them anything. tell them that you're sorry to have given them the wrong idea. or that you're taking "time out" from relationships. that you're too busy at work. that your chakras are telling you not to go out with them. that ... whatever. just blow them off and get them out of the picture.

take a deep breath.

i knew a girl who was Dxed borderline, and she was borderline so far into the next millenium she may as well have had it tattooed on her forehead. so what did she do? made it her excuse for every bad thing she did. cheated on her boyfriend? well, sorry honey, it was the borderline in me. she never actually got around to doing anything about it. just kept behaving dreadfully. never apologised for it or anything. i lost all respect for her. maybe this is a moment where you can draw a line in the sand and say "never will i cross this line". it's the first little step into becoming more like the person we all desperately want to be. baby steps.

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so i try and think about this whole personailty thing rationally and these are something that spring to mind.

1. i am bipolar, at the moment i would not say i am very depressed. im very agitated, and my thoughts are pumping a million miles an hour. but i am wondering if some of this "attiitude" i seem to have might be to do with that grandosity thing feeling like i am strong, bigger, more important, untouchable etc.

2. i know the behaviour is a cover so i dont get hurt. i surround myself with people who are not nice, who are unreliable, people i know would never really want me to be good and happy. people i can use the same way they use me. this is a very lonely place. i dont trust anyone, therefore i never share, but am too scared to even if i want to so i sit back in this lonely place where the only frills i get is out of playing games with people.

3. i should try associating with people who might want to see good things for me, and then may be i will have a better attitude towards others. but i find it so difficult being around people who want the best for me like my family, real friends and my boyfriend cause i feel like everytime this illness gets the better of me i let them down.

4. i want this behaviour to stop but im scared to let go cause i feel like then i will be alone. right now i need attention, i need help and i am taking it in anyway way shape or form i can get it

5. my feelings are numb inside. i truly feel like i exsist outside of my body. emotions seem VERY surreal to me. i have done so many harmful things to my body, alcohol, drugs, self induced vommiting, cutting, burning, put myself in situations i knew where dangerous and was sexually assulted as a result, and ive even sold my body for sex, not cause i needed or wanted the money but just to have someone want me. playing with people (guys) emotions is like an out of body experience, like a game of chess that i calculate in my head as i go along, no forsight what so ever.

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Or, if you want, just print out this thread and show it to him. I bet he/she can guess some personality features by just reading your posts and/or your reaction to our posts (well, I'd surely want to be diagnosed based on my behavior "in the wild" as opposed to "in doctor's office").

Actually, this is a pretty good point. For example, when i am in the doctor' s office, I sometimes find myself unable to express my true feelings and what I say comes out all wrong. My doc doesn't really know how I am outside of the office. He depends on me to talk and I sometimes cannot do that. I think that herpie's idea to print out these posts is a pretty good one.

Now to the real problem at hand... I'm not sure that I would classify your current behavior as borderline behavior, so I do not think that you should necessarily say that it is borderline personality disorder that is making you do this, as you have said.

what seems to be the real problem is that you love your boyfriend of two years and, yet, are forming relationships with four other men. Not to mention that these are all men you have had sex with in the past. You have made it abundantly clear that you are never going to leave your actual boy friend. Think about this: what would happen if your boyfriend were to find out? you can be juggling these four other guys all you want if you end up losing your actual boyfriend over it.

Yeah i feel REALLY bad for my primary boyfriend. truly i love him as much as i know how. sad thing is i dont know how to love him any better then what i am currently doing. and he knows that, he is not stupid he sees through a lot of my crap and knows about all of illness.

I would venture to guess that he does not know about the four other guys. It is one thing for you to say that your boyfriend is understanding that your emotions can be fragile or something of the like. Non-MI peaople sometimes have to learn to understand certain things when they have a MI SO.

Threre is a problem I am seeing in this, though. No matter what your actual mental illness is, *it* is not an excuse for your current actions. If that is in fact the exuse you say to your boyfriend if/when he find out and he actually takes that excuse, then he must really be pathetically in love with you and have no respect for himself.

no excuse for my behaviour, im just trying to find some peace or guidance. something. something to see me through til my next docs appointment with out going to the hospital.

ok, so again. a lot of this thread has been just arguing about your actions being because of borderline personality disorder I tend to disagree, but that is something you need to be honest about to your doctor. I mean really really honest.

right now, you need to have no excuse. these are your actions and only you can be responcible for them. how long is it until your doctors appointment? Also, do not rule out the hospital. if you must go you must go as a last resort.

The guys: you *know* that you are staying with your man o' two years. Is it possible for you to start trying to end it with some of these other guys? Maybe just try breaking it off with one of them and see what happens, okay? And also keep in mind that these guys have feelings too, so let them go nicely. Then you have be honest with your doctor.

Good luck

~Ophelia

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Guest espressogrrl

I really do not mean this as a total slam. honestly. I've dated 2 of them and my dad is one. There really is such a thing as narcississtic personality disorder (NPD), something very closely related to borderline. there is definitely a community that considers it to be a version of borderline, but it's so relatively new a diagnosis that it is controversial. I'd say look into it. not that i can ever pretend to brag to recognize it, as i am totally f**k*d up in my own right. but there are some lil things that strike me.

I only know about it from therapy about my dad. These were the things that struck me from my therapy and your posting:

1. npd's really like the game. when they get what they want, they dont want it anymore.

2. people, jobs, friends, everything is a supply source. they need to constantly surround themselves with supply sources for that ego. it's very difficult for them to truly tell the difference between love and supply source. they will go to great lengths to continue to have a steady intake of supply sources

3. any rejuection of their inflated sense of self isnt met with depression as much as it is met with rage and an urge to prove that rejection unwarranted and a mistake. its really typical to try and get back at the ex by luring them back into a relationship and then dropping it.

4. they have periods of grandiousity (like you were saying) about themselves, as in, above the rules or the laws that govern the rest of us common folk.

a really great article on it was on the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4633843.stm

and the best resources i found (other than therapy of course!) were here:

http://mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php/type/doc/id/419

It's really controversial and hard to diagnose, europe doesnt recognize it at all. I could be way off, but I thought i would post just in case - because its so RARE for an NPD to want therapy (that whole special self thing) and I hope you take it because if you are then you are obviously way ahead of the game if you are recognizing the need for therapy.

Good Luck!

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You won't guess or diagnose your motives, looking at them from now, the water is too muddy. So don't waste time on them. Get a good therapy, get good meds (it's going to take time), try to help yourself by finding distractions and new, non-destructive ways to spend time, break habits/routines... Self-justification or self-depreciation are both counterproductive.

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Guest Guest

i posted this on this board instead of the relationships board because i have been diagnosised with borderline personality. i havent said in any of my posts that i am using this disorder as an excuse for my behaviour, in fact if you reread my posts i say on numerous occassions i have no excuse for my behaviour.

i read through the dsm stuff on npd and hpd and some of the indicators are definatly there. but i hit the mark on every indicator for borderline depression.

1. i make frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. even this situation of keeping guys around just incase my man leaves is an example.

2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. well that one is certainly true 4 me.

3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self. (eating disorder and all that stuff.)

4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging spending, sex, substance abuse, binge eating;

5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior. i m a cutter, burner and i have attempted suicide.

6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

7. chronic feelings of emptiness.

8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, ).

9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

All of this is me. so while this situation i speak of is not soley a result of illness and i am not blaming my illnesses for it im saying it contributes.

i wish i didnt have feel i have to justify myself but it seems that admitting to this attention-seeking and sexual forwardness is less socially acceptable then most things people post on here.

anyways i am seeing my doc soon and i have changed my phone number so the guys can no longer contact me and hopefully now i have erased their numbers my shocking memory will forget them. dont worry i sent them a message saying i was going overseas which is true and i think it is better that i sort myself out before i could offer them anything, even friendship.

don't worry none of them were heartbroken over this.

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Letting ugly relationships go - great choice (in my opinion). I hope the pdoc visit helps too.

As for being "socially accepted" here - well, I'm sure nobody's going to ban you, or anything like that. Living with any personality disorder (and with BPD in particular) is more or less a struggle and noone's going to deny it.

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i wish i didnt have feel i have to justify myself but it seems that admitting to this attention-seeking and sexual forwardness is less socially acceptable then most things people post on here.

admitting to attention-seeking sexual behavior is not less socially acceptable than the things other people here admit to.

people are reacting to the tone of your first post:

im being a right little bitch at the moment and nobody knows it but you guys cause i am making a confession style post. my borderline personality wants to laugh my head off at the situation and how pathetic guys are but that sane voice in my head tells me i should be ashamed off myself, but still ...

that sounds flippant and like you are giving your personality disorder voice and control, as if it is it's own entity acting, which makes it sound like you are not owning your own behavior. no one is asking you to justify yourself, just to own your actions, and your first post makes it sound like you do not.

a lot of the other posts seem to be reacting to this:

does this sound really borderline to you? i have been dx borderline but i find treatment for these kind of behaviours real hard cause im not on any meds for it at the moment, and the beliefs that caring on these kind of behaviours is ok is so deeply rooted in my brain all CBT and therapy for it i have laughed through. not a very good attitude to have to what i guess from a rational person point of view would be a not very nice thing to be doing to other people.

you asked if it sounded borderline, and from what you had said, to many people this does not sound like borderline behavior. in your later posts you said things that changed the story and made it sound more like it could be influenced by borderline issues. cheating in and of itself is not usually a part of borderline behavior. asking you to explain motivations so that it can be understood enough to anser your question of if it sounds borderline is not asking you to justify your actions. there is nothing in your original post that sounds borderline.

no one is asking you to prove that you are borderline. no one here is qualified to do so, nor could they make that decision based upon posts on a message board. all they are saying is that the behavior you asked does not sound like borderline behavior. listing the DSM does not change the fact that the behavior in and of itself is not a part of what usually constitutes borderline behavior. sometimes people do things that can be linked to borderline, but it is unclear from your posts how borderline is linked to this behavior.

i am sorry this turned into a tuffle. miscommunication happenes on message boards, it's not a perfect medium for communication.

i think that it is very healthy that you are going to see your therapist soon and that you have cut off contact with these men. regardless of the motivation and issues behind the cheating, it is a self-destructive and harmful behavior and any step to better yourself is positive.

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