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Okay, so women like a guy who is a "challenge", right?


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You hear so much about women putting up with such bad treatment from their S.O. and when they're asked why they do it, some are honest enough to say "he's a challenge". The challenge of course being "taming" this "bad boy".

2 questions: One, what if she does finally "tame" him? Do they lose interest in him because he's not a challenge anymore? I worked with a woman who told me that's what happened with her baby's father (1st baby's father I should say, the 2nd baby's father is in jail, and after that I lost touch with her ). He was so irresponsible and stuff, typical irresponsible unemployed bf that you hear so many women complaining about. And then he finally started being Mr Responsible and she said she lost interest in him. "That's why playing hard to get works", she said.

Second question: Does the "woman trying to tame the bad boy" scenario ever work in reverse? Do women ever take guys who are TOO tame to begin with, and try to turn them into "bad boys", or at least close enough to a bad boy that he excites her? You never hear about that happening. What's the difference? Wouldn't taking a guy who is too tame, a complete "I just like him as a friend" nice guy, and turning him into someone more exciting be just as much of a "challenge"?

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I don't like a challenge. High maintenance guys suck. But I am a weirdo and apparently in the minority based on my friends.

Like these idiot women who date a guy, knowing he watches football every Sunday & Monday. And then they get married and they call me bitching because their man watches football every Sunday & Monday and they want to go antiquing. My response? "Call me back after the Packer game." ;)

Or idiot men who go for the Barbie girls with all the make up and the expensive clothes. Then they are bitching to me after they are married because said girl spends all her time in the bathroom in front of the mirror and blows all their money on clothes. FUCKING DUH!!!

There are people to this DAY that SWEAR "I thought he/she would change after we got married!"

Are you fucking stupid?? Dating is when people are on their "good behavior". Anything that annoys you while dating is only going to get worse one the other person feels safely hitched.

As to your original question...Maybe there are just a lot of people hooked on drama or something.

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I admit I *do* like a challenge.

And that does not necessarily mean *high maintenance*

It just means I don't like to be drooled over and called ever second on my cell phone. Playing a little hard to get sometimes is nice.

Going out on a first Date and having a guy kiss my hand every 5 seconds saying Wow! you so beautiful is a little annoying.

(Remember, This is my *opinion* )

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yeah, there's a difference between being a challenge and being a slobbering idiot. both suck. the challenge one is usually full of himself, has several girls around him, and wants to be worshipped. the slobbering idiot is like latin girl said, he kisses your hand every 2 seconds and slobbers on you and acts like a puppy.

i date men, not dogs or puppies!

and people don't change their stripes once they're married, like wife said. a guy or girl isn't going to magically drop a behavior because of a ring. heck, they may feel like they can do it MORE, because you won't go anywhere,, you're legally married.

i personally want a guy who is honest with me but isn't intruding on my space. i like a little mystery, but when he loves me i want to know.

loon (missing true love!)

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Mike: So how long do I wait to call?

Trent: A day.

Mike: Tomorrow.

Sue: Tomorrow, then a day.

Trent: Yeah.

Mike: So two days?

Trent: Yeah, I guess you could call it that, two days.

Sue: Definitely, two days is like industry standard.

Trent: You know I used to wait two days to call anybody, but now it's like everyone in town waits two days. So I think three days is kind of money. What do you think?

Sue: Yeah, but two's enough not to look anxious.

Trent: But I think three days is kind of money. You know because you...

Mike: Yeah, but you know what, mabey I'll wait 3 weeks. How's that? And tell her I was cleaning out my wallet and I just happened to run into her number.

Charles: Then ask her where you met her.

Mike: Yeah, I'll ask her where I met her. I don't remember. What does she look like? And then I'll asked if we fucked. Is that... would that be... T, would that be the money?

Trent: You know what. Ha ha ha Mike, laugh all you want but if you call too soon you might scare off a nice baby who's ready to party.

Mike: Well how long are you guys gonna wait to call your babies?

Trent, Sue: Six days.

This scene alway's cracks me up from Swinger's

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I love a challenge.. The more they push back the more I pursue..

Kinda weird personality trait, Its like if you cant' have it ,the more you want it..

After the chase and the catch, usually the relationship is weak..ALL PHERIMONES , NOTHING OF SUBSTANCE.

Sad but true, its more fun to chase... It is probably an insecurity thing for me.. I have to get what I want

or I feel like a loser. In the end I always pay for my dumb mistakes, I never seem to learn..

The last one, my husband.. Whoa HUGE MISTAKE

It is a bad thing for me. i wish I could stop being foolish

Frosty

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No challenge here

In case no one saw it, I posted this in the "do men still show a soft side" thread. Soft side?? I have nothing BUT a soft side!! I'm timid and passive and unsure of myself and needy and get my feelings hurt very easily for a guy. Here I am, ladies! ;)

Thought it was appropriate for this thread also. lol

The ladies seem to be able to relate to the "taming the bad boy" scenario. But no one has touched on whether it ever happens in reverse: taking a guy who is already tame, the puppy dog who kisses her ever 10 seconds, and turning him into a "bad boy". Or at least close enough to a bad boy where he's exciting for her.

I'm about the farthest from a bad boy you'll ever meet. No smooth talker AT ALL, timid, passive, unsure of myself, extremely low self-confidence. I just recently found this exotic dancer again, who I wrote about in the "is this love or obsession" thread. Hadn't seen her in nearly 10 years and I'm still nowhere near her type, according to her anyway. And I'm guessing that if I had a healthy desire for challenges myself (just stretching myself past my comfort zone I mean), wasn't timid or passive or unsure of myself and had a lot of self-confidence, I would be her type. From what little she's told me, she's attracted to strength (not necessarily physical, just masculinity), independence, confidence, knows how he feels and follows through (still don't know what she meant by that).

Anyway, I wonder if women ever take guys who aren't their type at all, and enjoy the "challenge" of turning him into something that IS her type.

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Guys like you are special, but a person like myself never seems to notice beyond friendship..

A nice guy is exactly what I need, but I am so blind I never see clearly. My problem..

Can I change ..don't know..probably not. 2 guys, one real together,a real player, the other - smiles gently,

cute non-aggressive.. low key.. Mr happenning gets all the looks , attention, while mr sweet is not really

noticed. Once, when at a MI countryclub in 97 . in my group of MI folks, there was this guy who looked a

cross between JFK JR and Pierce Brosnan..I saw him and said to myself " stay the hell away from him"

He was the idol of all women there. Unfortunately for me, he made a play and I succombed. Needless to

say, I was devasted hurt, used and so on. So just be proud of yourself and some wise girl will turn your way..

Frosty,

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I used to go for the bad boys but getting hurt over and over and over again was boring. To be honest I don't look for someone to change when I date them, I date them because I like them for who they truly are. I have dated a few different types of guys, I don't have a type persay and I don't usually dismiss men for not being 'my type'.

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I wish there was women in this world that would find relationships for "Self-Realization - (The Art of Body, Mind and Soul of Erotic Journey's) ... ". The means of our best of Health and Body Sculpturing is spent in the "Yoga" of shared intimacies and exercising with the Sensual Beauty we make and can appreciate for ourselves. This is where we learn to accept "Life's Ecstasies" by Accepting the other person's passions worked and shared between two people, by letting go of our own prohibitions and go with the flow as a "Journey" of experiences. And then we discover and find a greater sense of attraction for and from the other person.

I find Culture's in this world have brought us up as children from "Repressing" this idea and that we need to find other's as "Challenges". And now such ideas of "Challenges" in Politics is "War".

That is why I don't like Socializing with people that much. The ideas of Life is a cycle of reputation for vanity with the miss-guided ideas of finding "Challenges" with this life. Where I like to find the Aesthetical Beauty we find with this Life by exploring it and discovering it's senual beauty by our means of ... "Letting Go of our Prohibititions and accepting these Sensual Aesthethics of Life"

To find such a Woman and her beauty this way ... I think is rare, but I'm going to stick with it. Even if I don't find her. I will make my life fantacise with this instead, until I do.

That's why I don't like some Anti-Depressant medication to interfer with this goal of mine.

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I wish there was women in this world that would find relationships for "Self-Realization - (The Art of Body, Mind and Soul of Erotic Journey's) ... ". The means of our best of Health and Body Sculpturing is spent in the "Yoga" of shared intimacies and exercising with the Sensual Beauty we make and can appreciate for ourselves. This is where we learn to accept "Life's Ecstasies" by Accepting the other person's passions worked and shared between two people, by letting go of our own prohibitions and go with the flow as a "Journey" of experiences. And then we discover and find a greater sense of attraction for and from the other person.

I find Culture's in this world have brought us up as children from "Repressing" this idea and that we need to find other's as "Challenges". And now such ideas of "Challenges" in Politics is "War".

That is why I don't like Socializing with people that much. The ideas of Life is a cycle of reputation for vanity with the miss-guided ideas of finding "Challenges" with this life. Where I like to find the Aesthetical Beauty we find with this Life by exploring it and discovering it's senual beauty by our means of ... "Letting Go of our Prohibititions and accepting these Sensual Aesthethics of Life"

To find such a Woman and her beauty this way ... I think is rare, but I'm going to stick with it. Even if I don't find her. I will make my life fantacise with this instead, until I do.

That's why I don't like some Anti-Depressant medication to interfer with this goal of mine.

I just wanna be a playa and bang a lot of chicks. j/k ;)

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You know what sucks? I've tried the "challenge" guys and it just ended up pissing me off and hurting my feelings in the end. So I found my stable, funny, sensitive guy and he turned out to be the absolute WORST of all in the end. ;)

Needless to say, I would rather stay at home and watch documentaries on the Nuremburg Trials, crazy Amish people, and the Marquis de Sade. Alone. Because guys are never what they seem.

I'm going to clone myself so I can date myself. That way I'll know exactly what I want, know what makes me mad, and can woo myself with my favorite flowers.

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You don't bring me flowers

You said you were allergic!

You don't sing me love songs

You took out a restraining order.

You hardly talk to me anymore

I have to make arrangements through your therapist!

When you come through the door

At the end of the day

If you haven't changed the locks again

I remember when

I'm still drinking to forget

You couldn't wait to love me

Now they call it "date rape"

Used to hate to leave me

I have this thing called a "job"

Now after lovin' me late at night

If then

When it's good for you

You could at least PRETEND once in a while

And you're feeling alright

Makes for ONE of us

Well you just roll over

In exhaustion

And turn off the light

"The Clapper" was YOUR idea.

And you don't bring me flowers anymore

"Oh, but watching their lives cut short in bloom to fade away makes

me so depressed." That was our anniversary by the way.

It used to be so natural

We didn't need a manual

To talk about forever

Without choosing burial plots

But used to be's don't count anymore

Was that you or your lawyer came up with that gem?

They just lay on the floor

When the police have a gun at your head, oh yeah.

'Til you sweep them away

Or decide a WEEK later not to press charges.

And baby, I remember

With all that Ambien in you?

All the things you taught me

Some lessons you NEVER forget.

I learned how to laugh

Like a frickin hyena

And I learned how to cry

Is mace even legal in this jurisdiction?

Well I learned how to love

During WHICH of your "little flings"?

Even learned how to lie

*splutter*

You'd think I could learn

How say no to the cocktail waitress?

How to tell you goodbye

The summons to appear was a Really Good Hint

'Cause you don't bring me flowers anymore

On a cold day in Hell, babe

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Just a challenge,

Not High Matinence

Not a Bad Boy

Not a Pyscho

Just a little challange. Just not someone who thinks a first date means we will get married.

Some get a little carried away.

The End!

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NimbusBirdMgp3:

Don't write off antidepressants too easily unless you've tried them. They can be pretty good against anxiety, which I hear is related very closely to depression. I don't know your dx, but I know from experience that an antidepressant can make it easier to pick up girls. (Well, women anyway.) Takes some patience, tho. And you may need a sense of humor about coming, tho of course one can have a beatiful and moving experience without it. If frustrating.

null0trooper:

Is that a country song or did you just write it? Deserves to be set to music and played in some low down honky tonk where the cowboy hats on the post by the door have grass stains from being whipped off, thrown to the ground, and stomped on. Lyle Lovett?

JBella:

Be careful about cloning yourself. You'll have to spend even more time dealing with the same frustrating flaws you've been struggling with all along. (If you were perfect you wouldn't be here.) My s.o. has a lot of the same issues, and those are probably the difficult ones. For instance, we both feel the need to advise each other when we see something that's fixable, and we want to plow in and solve it. But we both don't want anyone else to do this for us! Still a worthwhile relationship, but then, we're not clones. I suspect I wouldn't have enough patience to deal with myself. Other people's problems are more interesting.

Maybe the honeymoon was not over yet when she said it, maybe 8 months in (don't trust my chronology), but my s.o. thought I was pretty much as stated in my personal. For instance, we actually went on several of the dates I described in my personal. I'll admit to spending many hours tweaking it. OTOH, I couldn't have done that 20 years ago.

PSmith4630:

Probably best to stay away from this exotic dancer until that description is at the very bottom of the list of the things you think of when you think of her, so that you might need to be reminded of it when the conversation turns to work. Exotic dancers' stock in trade is creating something that isn't real. If that's what you want, you'll never find it.

wifezilla:

you are wise

Latin Girl:

Swingers, as I remember it, was great fun, tho I bet I was squirming pretty hard during that hilarious answering machine bit. Thanks for reminding me.

I don't understand the challenge thing and don't like it. But then, tastes in romance aren't entirely voluntary. My s.o. and I were no challenge to each other. We were too much fun to talk to. To this day, a year in, I have to be careful or my phone bill will go out of control. Usually we speak at least once a day, tho we live a longish drive apart. By challenge, if you mean that the other person has a clue and realizes that it won't do to seem overly clingy and dependent, then that's probably good.

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null0trooper:

Is that a country song or did you just write it? Deserves to be set to music and played in some low down honky tonk where the cowboy hats on the post by the door have grass stains from being whipped off, thrown to the ground, and stomped on. Lyle Lovett?

The unattributed words on the left are from the Barbra Streisand and Neil Diamond hit, "You Don't Bring Me Flowers Anymore".

It got lots of airtime back in the mid/late 1970s.

The words on the right are from my addled brains.

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i so agree that good people, male or female, are hard to find and sometimes hard to keep. and keep ingterested and interesting. relationships seem to be based on words and vows. i like depeche mode's way of putting it "vows are spoken to be broken, feelings are intense, words are trivial"

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