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Okay.

So the thought just occurred to me.

Yes, I always pull out of depression and get back to a state of normal, stable, all is well-ville existence.

BUT, I will always, always, always continue to come back to this point of depression. It seems to be inevitable when stress occurs in my life. And fucking stress is not ever going away.

This has been happening since I was 9...fucking depression is who I am appearantly, and I can have years in between where I'm not majorly depressed just my normal pessimistic self.

So shit.

This is what I have to look forward to for the rest of my life...periods of being okay, and then the looming major depressive episode always just waiting to happen again.

This sucks. I want a new brain.

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A mood stabilizer can supposedly help prevent recurrent depression. There are some people on the fringe who are now thinking that recurrent depression is a form of mania free bipolar and treating it accordingly. That's the route I'm going right now.

You can try and look at it as making the moments of good that much more precious.

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Yes, I always pull out of depression and get back to a state of normal, stable, all is well-ville existence.

Within the bounds of my usual negative disposition I thought you'd misspelt "well-ville" and you actually meant "...back to a state of normal, stable, all is well - "vile" existence.

Heh! And in an abrupt about face...

have you tried cognitive/behavioural therapy? It can be especially tailored to teach you how to deal with stress and to teach you new thinking strategies (such as teaching you how to think more positively...and that does NOT mean 'optimistically'). Of course whether you choose to implement the techniques or ditch it is up to you. <shrug> BUT, medication isn't likely to really help some aspects of depression (such as learned schema).

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Before going on mood stabilizers, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to get off the mood destabilizer you've been trying to get off of for so long. Well known to *cause* kindling, leads to long-term depression and eventually psychotic features, and very mentally limiting in other ways. Mixing with other meds is unstable and chaotic.

I cannot help but laugh at the idea that they are coming around to think that depression might actually be a form of manic depression without the mania. If only psychiatry studied history instead of pharmaceutical propoganda.

Sigh.

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Yeah, I read it as well-vile, too, the first time around.

But it got me thinking. One of the hallmarks of major depression is its feeling of utter truth. Its most insidious aspect is that it makes you believe that this is the way things really are, that all of the months and, if you're lucky, years in between episodes are more or less false and temporary mood states where you're deluding yourself into thinking that you're ok, when actually you are a defective fuck who doesn't deserve to live.

What most behavioral therapies do is give you ways to talk back to the depression. CBT is not going to prevent episodes, but it can help you live through them. Cataloging the false beliefs that come with depression gives you a weapon, a way to challenge depressive thinking. For me, it doesn't make me feel any better at the time, but it gives me a tool to realize that the voice that's telling me that I'd be better off dead is a lie. It's part of the disease, just like fever and chills are part of the flu.

I hope you get back to well vile soon.

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Thanks guys.

Yes, I've been through rounds of CBT...years actually, and it does work.

My favorite type of therapy is psychodynamic by far, as I think there is a root to all of these dysfunctional beliefs....although psychodynamic therapy is a much more painful process.

I'm on Prozac, 30 mg. And I am maintaining all of the tools I know I need to do in order to keep me from falling into a major episode. Talking with friends, exercising, yoga, eating right, etc.

But the very frustrating part is that I'm doing all of these things (and I'm still in therapy) but when there is major stress in my life it just seems inevitable that my brain leans towards a depression.

And that just makes this fight seem futile.

I mean, I know if I were not doing the helpful things I would probably not be able to get out of bed in the morning at all or shower.

But since I am fighting and struggling to prevent and I still feel it sneeking in, that is MAJORLY discouraging.

Thanks for the input though, I'm glad others can relate.

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I know VE....and dosage is a topic I'm completely neurotic about.

I've been on 20 mg for almost 6 months now, and it pulled me out of a mild depression prior to switching to Prozac from Zoloft.

It took ALOT of convincing for me to go up to 30 mg when I started slipping this semester.

And I experience high levels of anxiety when increasing so I'm very slow and reluctant to go higher.

But I get your drift.

My neurotic reluctance stems from me still holding on to this belief that one day I will be able to live without an AD.

Cause I'd like to have children one day....and I know the studies say it is safe...but there are no long term studies on the child's brain development and the effects of AD during pregnancy.

And no long term studies (not funded by drug companies) about what AD are doing to the brain, a person's DNA structure, etc.

These are the things that keep me struggling to stay at the lowest dose possible. And I know this could be a completely self defeating idea, and I'm working on it.

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You do know that you can take a whole lot more prozac than that without turning into another species don't you? I took 90. People around here have taken 120.

Yeah but sometimes more ADs just liift the dark cloak of depression and replace it with the pink sequened cape of mania... if your a bit that way anyway I guess.

I always try and convince myself that I've done this before and I can get through it but when your in it it always seems so much worse than hoow you remembered it last time, so I'm not very good at convincing myself.

VE: hows the moood stabiliser woorking out for you? I seem to be at my AD threshold at a piiddly 20mgs celexa (you can see the rest of my rx in my sig (epilim is prettty much depakote) I shouldn't have these issues with mood), 1200mg depakote gave me serious depa-cooties for months on start up.

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do you have "double deperssion", a case where there is always a dysthymia and sometimes there are episodes of major depression over it, making your mood always suck but sometimes not suck as much? it sounds like that could be the case.

also, VE is right in that a lot of people need higher doses of prozac to get better. i'd like to bring up the point- what is the point of taking it at all if you don't feel better? to me, i'd rather take it and feel it than expose my body to something that doesn't even help, or help enough.

if you don't want to get out of bed, it signals major depression, and it can be treated with meds. if you're already doing all the things you can do to help yourself without drugs, then the next step is meds. personally, i wouldn't bother taking something unless it worked, and worked well.

we need solid, independent research on these drugs. they're so widely RXed, yet we don't know enough about them, short of what the drug companies tell us and what they do to us. we can see that they work, but what about long-term studies?

i want to have a child one day too, and i don't think meds screw up DNA, at least in our generation, because they do so much genetic testing on couples all the time, it would have been caught by now if people taking our drugs had DNA issues.

loon

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I know VE....and dosage is a topic I'm completely neurotic about.

I've been on 20 mg for almost 6 months now, and it pulled me out of a mild depression prior to switching to Prozac from Zoloft.

It took ALOT of convincing for me to go up to 30 mg when I started slipping this semester.

And I experience high levels of anxiety when increasing so I'm very slow and reluctant to go higher.

But I get your drift.

My neurotic reluctance stems from me still holding on to this belief that one day I will be able to live without an AD.

Cause I'd like to have children one day....and I know the studies say it is safe...but there are no long term studies on the child's brain development and the effects of AD during pregnancy.

And no long term studies (not funded by drug companies) about what AD are doing to the brain, a person's DNA structure, etc.

These are the things that keep me struggling to stay at the lowest dose possible. And I know this could be a completely self defeating idea, and I'm working on it.

At some some level this neurosis may be keeping you from thriving where instead you're just getting by.

Lots of people do go off their meds during the last two trimesters regardless of what clinical data says for the same reasons you're worried about. That doesn't mean you can't be fully medicated now. Those who can't can still adopt. In most cases MI is no barrier to adoption. Others here would know more about that than I though.

VE: hows the moood stabiliser woorking out for you? I seem to be at my AD threshold at a piiddly 20mgs celexa (you can see the rest of my rx in my sig (epilim is prettty much depakote) I shouldn't have these issues with mood), 1200mg depakote gave me serious depa-cooties for months on start up.

Topamax has definitely helped with the alternating insomnia and hypersomnia. As an added bonus it got rid of my Tourette's and RLS. For more than that we'll have to wait and see over time.

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I've read through this thread and there is too much I identify with to comment on, but wanted to chime in.

Greeny: you nailed it, for me. Your experience of the *truth* being the depression and the reprieve(s) between being a lie are a big part of what keeps me way low when I'm in an episode. MDD active *feels* like my *normal* me more than any other state I experience, including properly medicated and productive.

I have been seized again this whole week by not getting dressed, not getting out of bed. Part of it is a cold virus and my other chronic pain situations. But it SUCKS! Then I start worrying excessively that a MAJOR episode is descending yet again. I just had one in April and last summer getting out of 2 suicidal depressions by the skin of my teeth. I'm back on Effexor, had been on about a 5 year break from it, and I can swear it's doing better than Cymbalta, I have a more underlying stability or feeling of such, if that makes any sense. But it still bites that every action every move, every phone call--is a gargantuan chore, and I don't WORK, I'm disabled.

What if I had a real life. Jesus.

The Mind: One thing I will never be unconvinced of is the inextricable relationship between this scourge and hormones. Both pregnancies I was able to go through actually more stable than any other periods of my life, both times I got pregnant I was on Prozac at 40 mgs with 18 year old and 80 mgs with 10 year old. I will say this; post-partum was wicked both times.

Jem: I agree and am intrigued about the dx in and of itself too, that it is not separate from BP, but I get hung up on one point: allegedly, if I understand what people say here, if you have BP and take and SSRI as monotherapy you get batshit crazy. I have never had trouble with straight up SSRIs, evidenced by my many, total of almost 10 years of Prozac use. <shoulder shrug>

Finally on the matter of one day getting off ADs, I'm resigned and ok with taking ADs for the duration, till I die if necessary, but I am adamantly trying to avoid adding things like mood stabilizers or other heavy hitting psychotropic meds to the mix. I do definitely believe that whenever possible less is more and that the medical community is way to quick to throw meds at the situation.

Anyway, just wanted to get that out because I'm feeling like life sucks, I suck everything sucks and fucking depression most of all sucks.

S9

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I have to say that a mood stabiliser has helped me with recurrent seriously depressive episodes. I have had manic episodes before though. I am finding DBT, particularly emotional regulation is useful for me too.

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