Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I need to lose weight, and I like doing it the natural way, but my will power is dead. I can't not eat. I try doing the several small meals thru the day, I try sticking to healthy foods....but the truth is I love to eat. Food pleases me. And I hardly feel full, until I have eatin to a gross fullness.

My question is, does anyone know of a dietary supplement that actually takes the hunger away? That actually makes you put the fork down? I've tried slimquick, didn't feel a difference. I'm onto trimspa, and I do admit I feel nauseated quite often, but I blame that on my stress as of late. It sounds bad but I see it as a blessing.

I just need something that works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You might want to try chromium picolinate.

as i just posted in your (libby's) chromium thread, alpha lipolic acid may help as well. (ever notice things tend to come up in different threads at the same time?)

both of these supplements help with insulin sensitivity.

sometimes weight can be related to hormonal imbalances. hypothyroidism, low DHEA, etc. can cause weight gain.

there are some good points in that book VE linked to. (though the author hammers his point in a bit much for my taste.) we are a nation obsessed with dieting.

food is good. it's pleasurable. it is a part of life. a good part.

it is good to be healthy and avoid junk food. it's great to exercise. but make sure that you are shooting for a realistic and not abnormally thin goal.

you mentioned feeling the need to eat to "gross fullness". is this need connected to an emotional issue?

sorry if i am prying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You might want to try chromium picolinate.

you mentioned feeling the need to eat to "gross fullness". is this need connected to an emotional issue?

sorry if i am prying.

Thanks for the replies. I am currently trying TrimSpa, whose main ingredient is chromium dinicotinate glycinate. I'm not sure if that will do the same thing. I read up on chromium. It can cause damage to your dna. But seeing as I'm almost positive I'm infertile, it shouldn't matter.

Can I find the Chromium Picolinate by itself at a nutrition store or something?

And it's not prying. Isn't that what all of this is here for? I'm sure it has to do with emotions. I do love food. But the eating when not hungry and whatnot is due to the stress, I'm sure. And I can't fix the stress right away, so the only solution I can think of is curbing the appetite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can I find the Chromium Picolinate by itself at a nutrition store or something?

wow. i haven't really read up on chromium because i don't take it. (i only take supplements recommended to me by my doctor (an integrative medicine MD), and after reading these studies it seems unlikely that he would recommend chromium picolinate to me.) thank you for pointing this out, i feel like an ass for not having read up on it before. eek-o-rama.

this study discusses forms of chromium that do not cause DNA damage though i was unable to figure out if these forms are actually on the market.

they sell chromium picolinate in health food stores, yes. but chromium picolinate is "chromium III" which is the form that causes damage to DNA. people tend to focus on reproduction when they discuss DNA damage, but i'd be weary of this even if you aren't going to have kids. DNA damage is bad news and the studies have shown that it's mutagenic and may have neurological side effects.. DNA damage doesn't just mean birth defects, it can also mean cancer. it's up to you, of course, if you want to take the risk still, but i hope you consider not taking it. besides, there aren't any glowing studies proving it helps with weight loss (or at least i haven't found them). (if you want to read the full text of one of these articles send me a PM.)

i don't know how alpha lipolic acid compares to chromium in terms of weight loss. it is, however, an antioxidant and protects against cellular damage and not a DNA nicker. (i take it with acetyl-l-carnitine and coQ 10 for chronic fatigue, so i can't personally say one way or another if it's done anything for my appetite, does help my energy level though.) but at least it has been shown to be safe. and it has been shown to improve insulin sensitivity, but that doesn't make it a weight loss pill. insulin resistance can cause weight issues, or can be caused by weight issues, but that doesn't mean for a given individual it will help with weight. though this is the mode that chromium works through.

you mentioned feeling the need to eat to "gross fullness". is this need connected to an emotional issue?

sorry if i am prying.

And it's not prying. Isn't that what all of this is here for?

haha. yes. this is prying central. prying/support... same difference? ;)

I'm sure it has to do with emotions. I do love food. But the eating when not hungry and whatnot is due to the stress, I'm sure. And I can't fix the stress right away, so the only solution I can think of is curbing the appetite.

stress is a constant and yeah, i relate to not being able to fix stress levels just because it would be healthy. but (and don't kill me for saying this, because i'd probably want to kill me if i read this) there are a lot of ways to deal with stress other than eating. yoga, exercise, sex, bubble baths, reading, shredding paper, watching grey's anatomy (i like to get my cry on once a week), pacing, yelling at people on message boards for making asinine obvious statements, going to therapy...

i think what i'm trying to say is that i don't think there is a magic pill, and researchers have been searching for it long and hard, so it may be better to find something else that is magic for you while the scientists plug away with their test tubes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not recommending this, because I am sure it's not a great idea for the MI, but my (MI) friend is losing like crazy on phentermine. It's a stimulant.

I tried to buy it online myself TWICE (duh) and got ripped off both times, so I wouldn't recommend that either, unless you have money to burn.

Now I'm going to a medically supervised diet clinic and I have lost about 11 pounds so far (3 weeks). I get vitamin B injections and eat very, very little.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

they sell chromium picolinate in health food stores, yes. but chromium picolinate is "chromium III" which is the form that causes damage to DNA. people tend to focus on reproduction when they discuss DNA damage, but i'd be weary of this even if you aren't going to have kids. DNA damage is bad news and the studies have shown that it's mutagenic and may have neurological side effects..

After reading the abstract, I think that your cited authors are confusing Chromium (III) picolinate

with hexavalent chromium, or Cr(VI). One would have to check their references to see how far

they are overextrapolating from "recent studies"

It is Cr(VI) and Cr(V) that are likely to kill you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can simply buy chromium picolinate at a regular drugstore. I got it at CVS.

I find some things so funny. My parents told me never to take diet pills... ever ever ever. I have struggled with my weight ever since I was in second grade. As I got older and my weight fluctuated, my parents I think were always worried that I would go to pills. Anyway, one day.... I think I was around fifteen, my dad gave me a bottle of chromium picolinate. He was going to try it and it was *not* a diet pill. He said that he considered it like taking a vitamin. heh, about five years ago... jesus...

I don't know... at least *I* find it amusing. I, personally, would not be one to sing its praises, but maybe it is just me. I know that Libby has been saying that she likes it... everyone is different, I guess...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

they sell chromium picolinate in health food stores, yes. but chromium picolinate is "chromium III" which is the form that causes damage to DNA. people tend to focus on reproduction when they discuss DNA damage, but i'd be weary of this even if you aren't going to have kids. DNA damage is bad news and the studies have shown that it's mutagenic and may have neurological side effects..

After reading the abstract, I think that your cited authors are confusing Chromium (III) picolinate

with hexavalent chromium, or Cr(VI). One would have to check their references to see how far

they are overextrapolating from "recent studies"

It is Cr(VI) and Cr(V) that are likely to kill you.

this study (which i linked earlier in my post) has a lot of research, and it most certainly is about chromium picolinate and not about the other forms. the studies are specifically on the form people take. they're not talking about death like ODing on too much paint with chromium in it, they mean that it causes genetic mutations. the abstract in your quote i linked to because it is more clearly worded than the abstract of the detailed study on multiple forms of Cr (III). perhaps the link in your quote conflates some things, i'm not really up to reading every study they looked at, but there are a ton of peer reviewed studies on pubmed about DNA damage from Cr (III) and also studies about how well absorbed it is.

i promise it's not just wonky scare tactics. i PM'd you the pdf of the detailed study.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

perhaps the link in your quote conflates some things, i'm not really up to reading every study they looked at, but there are a ton of peer reviewed studies on pubmed about DNA damage from Cr (III) and also studies about how well absorbed it is.

Hey, you are the one who's using the Sports Medicine article to support the contention that Cr(III) is the form that

causes damage - as opposed to the others which have a very extensive literature of their own. The PDF you sent is

of a study that used conditions very unlikley to occur in a human body but very likely to oxidize Cr(III) to Cr(VI) - and

no, they did not check what form they were playing with after they added the oxidizer.

Edit: That's Sports Medicine as in: Name of Journal, not for emphasis

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you so much for all the info and insight. I'm so glad I found this site and so sad it took me this long.

stress is a constant and yeah, i relate to not being able to fix stress levels just because it would be healthy. but (and don't kill me for saying this, because i'd probably want to kill me if i read this) there are a lot of ways to deal with stress other than eating. yoga, exercise, sex, bubble baths, reading, shredding paper, watching grey's anatomy (i like to get my cry on once a week), pacing, yelling at people on message boards for making asinine obvious statements, going to therapy...

My crappy fiancee is out of town, so sex is out. I work alot and just find myself moping around so anything productive to get rid of the stress and depression is out. :-D I'm my own worst enemy, so I guess I truly am just looking for a magic pill to help me lose weight. Sadly even I believe it doesn't exist. Yet I keep searching.

I'm sure there's something to be said about that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

null0

hey i'm not a chemist, never have claimed to be one. i pretty much only make statements about supplements that my doctor has rx'd me and explained to me. i don't think my doctor has time to explain chromium to me right now though. if you look up "chromium (III) DNA" in pubmed there are a lot of studies. i know that "hair dye causes cancer" but only if you force feed pounds of it to mice, etc. i don't have the time to go through all of the studies and maybe they're all flawed. i also know that aspertame is "safe" in many studies and yet my doctor told me to cut it out of my diet. i'm creeped out enough to think it is a good idea to not take chromium. i don't see why a whole slew of scientists would study the DNA thing if there was no merit to the idea. yes, i know scientists do strange things, but i just don't see any vested interest in showing that excess supplementation of chromium isn't good for you. it is very easy to get enough chromium out of your diet.

i still don't think i did something wrong by linking to the sports medicine article. if there is a chance than an unnecessary supplement can cause harm, then i think that's worth pointing out. almost everything we take has a risk of harm and we decided to take it or not based upon the benefit we get from it. i personally think i like my DNA and don't want to play with it. i also know that i am not a mouse or a chicken or many of the animals in studies, and people are free to decide that they are not mice and that chromium (III) is safe and it works for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15708800

Unusual reactivity in a commercial chromium supplement compared to baseline DNA cleavage with synthetic chromium complexes.

Chaudhary S, Pinkston J, Rabile MM, Van Horn JD.

Department of Chemistry, University of Missouri-Kansas City, 5110 Rockhill Road, Kansas City, MO 64110, USA.

Commercially available chromium supplements were tested for their DNA cleavage ability compared with synthetic chromium(III) complexes, including chromium(III) tris-picolinate [Cr(pic)3], basic chromium acetate [Cr3O(OAc)6]+, model complexes, and recently patented Cr-complexes for use in supplements or therapy. Four different supplements (P1-P4) were tested for their DNA cleaving activity in the presence and the absence of H2O2, dithiothreitol (DTT) or ascorbate. One supplement, P1, showed nicking of DNA in the absence of oxidant or reductant at 120 microM metal concentration. Different lot numbers of P1 were also tested for DNA cleavage activity with similar results. Commercial supplements containing Cr(pic)3 nicked DNA at 120 microM metal concentrations in the presence of 5 mM ascorbate or with excess hydrogen peroxide, analogous to reactions with synthetic Cr(pic)3 reported elsewhere. Another chromium (non-Cr(pic)3) supplement, P2, behaves in a comparable manner to simple Cr(III) salts in the DNA nicking assay. Chromium(III) malonate [Cr(mal)2] and chromium(III) acetate [Cr(OAc)] can nick DNA in the presence of ascorbate or hydrogen peroxide, respectively, only at higher metal concentrations. The Cr(III) complexes of histidine, succinate or N-acetyl-L-glutamate do not nick DNA to a significant degree.

PMID: 15708800 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that is the study that i sent the full text of to null that is flawed apparently, though i thought the purpose of the study was to show that there are safe forms of chromium out there that do not fuck with DNA. these forms have patents, i found them, just couldn't find products with them in it. as for oxidation... i dunno don't things oxidize in bottles? why am i taking so many damn anti oxidants if it's not an issue? ok i'm being facetious here.

Thank you so much for all the info and insight. I'm so glad I found this site and so sad it took me this long.

i'm quite glad you found the site as well.

My crappy fiancee is out of town, so sex is out. I work alot and just find myself moping around so anything productive to get rid of the stress and depression is out. :-D I'm my own worst enemy, so I guess I truly am just looking for a magic pill to help me lose weight. Sadly even I believe it doesn't exist. Yet I keep searching.

I'm sure there's something to be said about that

crappy fiancee should have at least left you with a vibrator then. masturbating is much more fun than researching magic pills. or maybe you're multitasking and i just don't know it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i still don't think i did something wrong by linking to the sports medicine article.

I didn't say you did harm by linking the sport medicine article. I am pointing out that neither study

provides a basis to conclude that Cr(III) is going to cause significant DNA damage - particularly

when the one study used reagents that are likely to change the oxidation state to a species that

is known to cause damage.

As far as things oxidizing in bottles. Yes, some do. That doesn't not mean that all will. There's a huge

difference between the oxidizing potential of ambient air, vs. a strong hydrogen peroxide solution.

Even among transition metals, Fe(0) will oxidize to Fe(III) in water LONG before Cr(0) will oxidize

to Cr(III), and Cr(III) to Cr(VI) is very unlikely under those conditions.

In the study where actual chemistry was performed, there is no baseline provided for risk comparison.

Was the effect on DNA excessive or minimal compared to the effect of other common, related

metals. Without a baseline for comparison, there's little basis for making an informed decision regarding

risk to benefit. Maybe all of the runs showed excessive damage potential compared to iron, manganese,

or copper. Maybe none of them. It depends on whether Cr supplementation is necessary or useful or not.

So far, you haven't demonstrated whether it is useful or not useful, which is a separate issue from

harmful or not harmful, or even what level of excess lifetime cancer risk should be acceptable.

As far as "what scientists study" goes - why we study things is not necessarily based on what people

outside our field(s) consider to have merit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as to usefulness, this study on a specific form of Cr(III) seems to show that it is useful for diabetes.

A newly synthetic chromium complex--chromium(phenylalanine)3 improves insulin responsiveness and reduces whole body glucose tolerance.

as for the scary, these two studies confuse me and if you can say if they make sense one way or another if you have spare time that would be neat. not that i even want to take chromium i'm just curious now. gah.

Cytotoxicity studies of chromium(III) complexes on human dermal fibroblasts.

Carcinogenic Cr(VI) and the nutritional supplement Cr(III) induce DNA deletions in yeast and mice. (poor mice, always getting poked and cancerified.)

the first study had too many details for me to try to cut parts out to post here, and the second study i wonder if it's even on the type of Cr(III) people take.

oddly, Cr(III) seems to also be under study for reversing cancer caused by Cr(IV).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've always been a fan of the concept of the "Zone" diet, personally. It's not so much a restrictive "diet" as it is a way of nutritious and satisfying eating.

The basic principle of the Zone is that your intake should consist of 40% carbs (with as little sugar as possible), 30% fat, and 30% protein. Many satisfying meals can be made under these guidelines, though most people end up going about 50% carbs and 20% protein, which may work about as well.

EDIT: Note that the above percentages are based on the number of calories, not the number of grams. 1g protein or carbs = 4 calories, 1g fat = 9 calories.

Of course, overall calorie intake is dictated by desired weight loss (or gain!). It's generally accepted that one should eat no less than 1200 calories per day, and no more than 3000 (your mileage will vary). I forget how caloric intake relates to weight loss, it also relates to your current weight somewhat, check with a doctor or dietician.

As far as "what scientists study" goes - why we study things is not necessarily based on what people

outside our field(s) consider to have merit.

Sometimes what we study is completely useless; we just have grant money to study it by, so we study it in hopes that it results in a publication and makes us one step closer to tenure. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the first study had too many details for me to try to cut parts out to post here,

The abstract mentions a couple of ligands that I didn't recognize, and two that will leach Cr out of damned near

anything. It seemed to indicate that some Cr(III) complexes have a biological route to the more dangerous

oxidation states.

and the second study i wonder if it's even on the type of Cr(III) people take.

I haven't seen CrCl3 on the store shelves. I'd have to wonder if it can be absorbed effectively in the digestive system

before it precipitates.

oddly, Cr(III) seems to also be under study for reversing cancer caused by Cr(IV).

That sounds a little like homeopathy. Then again, there are some nasty compounds used in cancer treatment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm gonna skip the discussion about chromium, since I don't know anything about it.

You don't mention if you are on any meds, if so what meds? Some meds make it close to impossible to lose weight. I gained 9 kgs on a combination of Zyprexa and Lithium, and I've always been skinny as a stick, no matter what I ate.

I did a google search for some dietary supplements to lose weight. I tried to filter out the dodgy stuff, but I'm no expert so do your own research.

Some ideas:

  • L-Carnitine - Supposedly makes it easier for the body to burn fat, but I was unable to find any reliable sources for this.
  • There's this coffee called Coffee Slender, which swedish studies actually verified it worked. I haven't drank it for weight loss, but I've tried it and it tastes pretty good. Can't do any harm to replace regular coffee with that, I suppose. Don't know if it's available in the US.
  • Some studies suggest green tea may have some effect.
  • "Konjugerad linolsyra" - I was unable to find a good enough english translation for this, but I guess it would be something like conjugated linole acid.
  • OXA modified alpha methylated fat acids (again, trouble with the english translation)
  • Then there's always the pills with some sort of ephedrine, but I wouldn't go there.

More importantly, you say your food issues is emotionally related, so that's something to work on. I had to work very hard to be content with just being moderately full, as opposed to feeling stuffed. If you eat when you're feeling stressed or sad, you need to find other outlets for that. Penny gave some good suggestions. Me, I smoke, something you SHOULDN'T do. ;)

Another thing is, your hunger is related to how much you eat. I know when I haven't eaten much for a while, I don't feel as hungry. When I was in the hospital and had to eat their crappy food, I actually had to make myself eat again when I got out, and that was hard. I'm NOT saying to starve yourself, but if you try eating smaller portions, your body may get used to it and you won't feel as hungry.

Again, I'm no expert so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...