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nightshade

Benzo comparisons, speed of action, equivalents dosages

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This chart shows speed of action and comparison of effects for benzos:

http://www.medscape.com/content/2003/00/45...456734_tab.html

Check out the above, looks very helpful for us anxiety ridden folks.

;)

Chimpmaster provides this link which shows approximate benzo equivalent dosages:

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

And this source from Dr. Bob's is provided by doc's and has source references. [added 7/2007, a.m.] Thanks Penny!

http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/bzd.html

Edited by AirMarshall

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Figured I'd mention my situation...

Having recently had to deal with about 3 weeks without Klonopin (2mg BID), I experienced what likely was the worst 3 weeks of my life. Searching on the internet, I found that the nightmare which my life had become was very typical. Awful stuff.

Because of the withdrawal, most discussion of Klonopin seems to demonize it and those who prescribe it.

I beg to differ. I have Tourette's Syndrome and over the years it was worsening. I don't have the copro-shave-the-scrotum-of-my-syphillitic-dog-lalia aspect, but my tics are strong. My compulsion to blink, or more like slam my eyelids shut, had grown so bad I couldn't drive anymore because my eyes were tightly shut more than they were open. I apparently do this blinking-like-I-bloody-mean-it thing even when I sleep, which I do with my eyes closed.

Klonopin quickly took the edge off of that and my other tics.

Downside is that a big part of my job was programming and it was terribly complicated and convoluted stuff and I could quickly tell I was far less capable of doing it. My "twitch pills" took the edge off my twitching but they also took the edge off my brain's ability to parse, well, anything that needed parsing at all. So when I inevitably had to go from 2 1mg pills to 2 2mg pills, and knew 5's existed, I decided I wanted to delay the inevitable upgrade to 5's, so I started adjusting years ago. Most days, I'd break a 2mg in half and take half a day, for a total of 2mg daily rather than 4. Sometimes I'd have to replace a 1 with a full 2 if I seemed to be falling behind, but I've rarely ever taken 4mg in a day.

Now that I'm addicted to them, I've learned that life without them would suck even more than it did before them. I can lighten up the dosage (like just half a 2mg for the whole day occasionally) if I know I need to be able to get my noggin into a higher gear, and this self-adjusting seems to work well for me.

I finally got my refill Friday morning and I either lost them after taking only one and a half that day, or they were stolen from me. So my withdrawal was in full force again Sunday and I was talking to everyone I knew to see if I could borrow some K or even Xanax.

Was able to buy some Xanax and, using the second post's chart, figured it takes 2 2mg Xanax to equal 1mg of Klonopin, so I popped two of them.

When I woke up at my kitchen table just a few hours ago, I decided to read the rest of this thread, and I'm glad I did. I'll just take 1 now. Interestingly, it's been a good 12-16 hours since taking the pair that knocked me out and I feel zero anxiety. Just a feeling that its slow onset is around the corner, so I'm gonna do 1 bar now and go to bed as the sun's coming up.

Yeah, as the sun's coming up. One of the bad habits withdrawal got me. If I was panicked and anxious every day, imagine how my nights were. I never went to bed. I simply passed out from exhaustion for a little while every 2-3 days and would wake up in full-on panic mode.

Bless/damn Klonopin.

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xD

Benzos are the only relief i found.  klon 2s work effectively

Edited by swim

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chronic anxiety  is nuked by benzos , I have took 12mg at 1 time a day  Ativan , and then had to detox cold the lot by a nut ball shrink. seizure  and then flat line believe it or not, I was then only given back 4mg  . So I spent a year in my room detoxing and going nuts,  load of bollocks I still take 5mg now  . if you have a chronic illness and benzos are the only med that works, why take them away.

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12 mg of ativan is a lot unless you're a polar bear.

 

Taking 12 mg of ativan at once might not work as well as taking a longer acting benzo in a smaller equivalent dose fewer times a day.

 

Some of the longer acting benzos will help you have better around-the-clock coverage. My pdoc finally convinced me to switch from lorazepam 4-6 mg per day to 1mg klonipin with up to 2 one mg lorazepam as needed for extra difficult situations. It helped me get better control over my anxiety so I could make more headway addressing it with therapy.

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I just got a new shrink who was recommended by my last one that moved out of state. He said after being on 6-8mg a day for 10 years that she would not mess with my meds. Well after 4 months she lowered them to 6mgs! She asked me at out last session to try and go without one a day and see how I did. I did try but the way I take them for my PTSD. I need to take 6mg in the morning and then I have one for later in the day especially if I'm leaving my house in the evening because by then the others have worn off. Sometimes I don't take it if I don't go anywhere. I almost got arrested at Walgreens for "losing it", or having a panic attack. Once I feel that feeling coming on all I can do is grab my prn dose, 2MG, that I always carry for emergencies and chew it and get the hell out of dodge or the situation. I tried not taking the evening dose and going out and it wasn't a good scene. I can't control my panic attacks without this drug and it's kept me somewhat sane and stable for 10 years. I trust it. Why do new doctors have to impose their own opinions on what is a good dose for us when they can read our history and that some of us are bat shit crazy without meds. Not all of us are addicts but I sure feel like I am being treated like one. I can't leave the house at night now because I don't trust that I won't have a panic attack.

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I just got a new shrink who was recommended by my last one that moved out of state. He said after being on 6-8mg a day for 10 years that she would not mess with my meds. Well after 4 months she lowered them to 6mgs! She asked me at out last session to try and go without one a day and see how I did. I did try but the way I take them for my PTSD. I need to take 6mg in the morning and then I have one for later in the day especially if I'm leaving my house in the evening because by then the others have worn off. Sometimes I don't take it if I don't go anywhere. I almost got arrested at Walgreens for "losing it", or having a panic attack. Once I feel that feeling coming on all I can do is grab my prn dose, 2MG, that I always carry for emergencies and chew it and get the hell out of dodge or the situation. I tried not taking the evening dose and going out and it wasn't a good scene. I can't control my panic attacks without this drug and it's kept me somewhat sane and stable for 10 years. I trust it. Why do new doctors have to impose their own opinions on what is a good dose for us when they can read our history and that some of us are bat shit crazy without meds. Not all of us are addicts but I sure feel like I am being treated like one. I can't leave the house at night now because I don't trust that I won't have a panic attack.

 

I'm surprised she asked you to try for an entire day without any at all, as opposed to just reducing the dose.  If I went a day without xanax I would start to feel some sort of withdrawal.  Not a full withdrawal, but I wouldn't feel right ... physically and mentally.

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I don't agree with a few of benzo.org.uk equivalent doses. For example, how can 0.5mg of triazolam possibly be equal to 0.5mg xanax... triazolam is much more potent, considerably more potent. overall though, benzo.org.uk has a lot of good information

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12 hours ago, mmaryland said:

I don't agree with a few of benzo.org.uk equivalent doses. For example, how can 0.5mg of triazolam possibly be equal to 0.5mg xanax... triazolam is much more potent, considerably more potent. overall though, benzo.org.uk has a lot of good information

Agreed about the halcion/Xanax 

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I'd have to say in my experience Halcion is the fastest onset benzodiazepine orally, I take it for insomnia and I am not kidding when i say if I take it as I lay in bed, no longer than 10 minutes will go by before I'm asleep. It kicks in super fast. High dose alprazolam also kicks in fast, but not as quickly as an oral dose or triazolam. 

I've used valium under the tongue multiple times and on many of those occasions the diazepam felt completely different than when I just orally ingest it. It hits me faster and the anxiety relief is more potent. I dont really do alprazolam sublingual never have i done it with Halcion either. Versed/Midazolam might be fast acting if the route of administration is IV but thats generally in a clinical or hospital setting.

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The reduction schedules at benzo.org.uk are specifically for titrating off benzos. That is their goal.  They are not equivalency charts. Also each benzo have very different characteristics (sedation, hypnotic, anticonvulsant, anti anxiety, muscle relaxant, etc). Having such a wide and differing range makes coming up with equivalencies hard, if not impossible.

Everybody seems to have a different opinion on which benzo is stronger than another. How do you codify this ? Benzo have a lot of abilities, such as Length of action, half life,  Sedation, time to become effective (how quickly and strong does it hit), and muscle-relaxation

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