antidepressants vs. supplements

[sunburnt22]

i took a neurotransmitter test a couple years ago from www.neuroscienceinc.com ordered by my MD. my serotonin was 27! when the optimal range is b/n 175-225. sometime later i repeated the test while i was on 10 mg of lexapro and 150 mg of wellbutrin XL and it only went up to 67. and my level of improvement i would say matched that. The company Neuroscience Inc. sent a printout in which they recommended the supplements TravaCor, and ExcitaCor. I'm not even sure if these supplements are safe to take with my other meds. and even if they are, how could they raise my serotonin enough if lexapro and wellbutrin XL couldn't even do it? anything else that could raise my serotonin? i have not been able to tolerate increased dosages of lexapro and/or wellbutrin.

[chimpmaster]

I think you need to look at this problem more philosophically than metrically.

How do you feel? How do changes in medication make you feel?

There are plenty of other SSRI meds you could try which may suit you better.

[Loon-A-TiK]

the company recommends these supplements, but does your doctor? if you're going to take natural products, remember that they are "natural" drugs and just as potent as regular drugs, and need to be monitored by someone familiar with them. not all MDs are qualified to handle supplements.

fish/flax oils seem to help a lot of people. i take enough flax to kill most people . and maybe CM is right- you could just not be taking the correct drugs. maybe you need more in your cocktail, different ones, or ones in a different class put together. i wouldn't give up just because one test puts your seratonin low.

there was this brain bench test i found on the internet awhile ago that was supposed to test your intelligence. it turns out that everyone who took it did poorly, even "normal" people- they were just trying to sell something. are you sure that these people aren't just trying to sell something? i'd ask your MD what his results are and what other patients get as an average.

something seems suspicious to me. even if your MD recommended it, it still seems fishy. do your own homework about it.

loon

[null0trooper]

if you're going to take natural products, remember that they are "natural" drugs and just as potent as regular drugs,

Some are, most are not, and not only is there usually poor quality control for herbal, but little basis for comparison among the products if there is.

and need to be monitored by someone familiar with them. not all MDs are qualified to handle supplements.

And very few of the people selling you supplements know anything about medicine, or the body, or what the supplements actually are. It's appalling, some of the crap that is being put out as "fact"

i wouldn't give up just because one test puts your seratonin low.

Low numbers, without units of measurement, on a test conducted without a baseline to establish the level at which you function best, by a company with products to sell.

This is almost always a signal to toss the results and run away.

The only posiitve sign is that the number went up after you'd been taking A medication that is known to increase synaptic serotonin levels.

The company Neuroscience Inc. sent a printout in which they recommended the supplements TravaCor, and ExcitaCor. I'm not even sure if these supplements are safe to take with my other meds. and even if they are, how could they raise my serotonin enough if lexapro and wellbutrin XL couldn't even do it? anything else that could raise my serotonin?

1. Wellbutrin is NOT an SSRI and will not significantly raise serotonin levels for most people (The people who do notice the effects of elevated serotonin while on it probably should never take a serotonergic med).

2. The various SSRIs do not raise serotonin levels by the same amount at the same dosage. They also do not all have the same side effect profiles and risks.

3. SSRIs aren't the only medications that can elevate serotonin - many TCAs also raise serotonin by uptake inhibition, some by other mechanisms. MAOIs elevate serotonin by reducing the body's ability to break it down after use. Both groups of meds carry different risks and side effects.

4. An arbitrarily high serotonin level in your blood is NOT guaranteed to make you feel good and low serotonin is not guaranteed to induce depression. The brain is way more complicated than that.

5. Some fairly effective antidepressants and antidepressant adjuncts don't work by increasing serotonin levels.

As to this stuff:

TravaCor: high levels of vitamins B6 and B12, the latter is very poorly absorbed by mouth and has some nasty digestive consequences for some people; some folic acid and vitamin C, but less than a glass of orange juice or a good multivitamin; low amounts of magnesium, zinc, selenomethionine, amino acids... Basically, stuff that you can find suggestive abstracts on the Internet for, combined at random, at doses low enough that the FDA may not take the company to court over.

Three servings of lean meat a week, and the recommended 5 fruit/vegetable servings a day would be nearly as effective. Add a multivitamin pill and/or Ca/Mg/Zn supplement if you feel you must have a supplement.

ExcitaCor: pretty much the same as TravaCor, with unknown quantities of Rosea rhodiola and Mucuna pruriens. Neither of these do a damn thing for serotonin increase, and much of the stuff sold as Rosea apparently isn't. As to Mucuna pruriens, it is one of the herbs that contains a pharmaceutical compound, l-dopa, and that stuff is not generally prescribed for depression. You probably won't even notice Rosea's reputed effect on dopamine levels if you're taking the two together...

"These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to cure, treat or prevent any disease." ((site selling these things) ).

There's a reason they say that - neither product treats major depression.

Neither of these is likely to "increase serotonin" as much as, let alone better than, 5 mg Lexapro.

As to not being able to tolerate increased Lexapro and/or Wellbutrin - that's not enough information to go on for anyone to even suggest an alternative.

[lei]

My MD recommended TravaCor (2 capsules 2x day) because SSRIs helped my mind (OCD, GAD) but just killed my body.

TravaCor works great for me. Doc says it's the amino acids, not the vitamins, that help increase serotonin. He and I have been disappointed with most supplements but this one seems a real winner.

ETA: For those who decide to try it, give it two weeks to feel a difference.

[Zippy]

I had a prescription for L-tryptophan a little while ago and it triggered a manic episode and no sleep for me for a week. It was a short experiment, but I am assuming that that supplement (although prescription grade) did in fact raise my seretonin levels higher than I needed. So yes, supplements can raise seretonin IMO although I am not familiar with the ones you mention.

[lei]

I had a prescription for L-tryptophan a little while ago and it triggered a manic episode and no sleep for me for a week. It was a short experiment, but I am assuming that that supplement (although prescription grade) did in fact raise my seretonin levels higher than I needed. So yes, supplements can raise seretonin IMO although I am not familiar with the ones you mention.

Interesting. And I should probably mention that neither depression nor mania have ever been issues for me, "only" anxiety. I don't know if my doc would have recommended this otherwise.

[null0trooper]

I had a prescription for L-tryptophan a little while ago and it triggered a manic episode and no sleep for me for a week. It was a short experiment, but I am assuming that that supplement (although prescription grade) did in fact raise my seretonin levels higher than I needed. So yes, supplements can raise seretonin IMO although I am not familiar with the ones you mention.

Some supplements can raise serotonin levels. Not all of them though.

l-trytophan is used by the body to make 5-HTP, serotonin, and melatonin. To a limited extent, increasing available tryptophan can allow the body to make more serotonin than usual. And then possibly more serotonin can be released for a given signal - but it takes a reuptake inhibitor to keep the serotonin from being mopped back up and disposed of at the usual rate (and an MAOI to disable the disposal.)

The result can still be more serotonin in play than someone with bipolar disorder might want to deal with.

Normally that won't be enough by itself for most people with major depression, GAD, or OCD. Where it's going to help the most is for the people who need some serotonin increase, but not a lot of it, and folks who'd benefit from the excess serotonin being used to synthesize melatonin. (You'd be surprised at how much help something as "simple" as improved sleep can be. )