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DID contoversy page #1

Wiki

More Wiki on DID

I should not read psych web site while in a fragile state, but i am having a real problem feeling like I'm real, like I exist as an identity. When I have memories or flashbacks, are they real or delusions? I have very little family left alive, and we are not at all close. Trying to get more than vague statements about my life out of my father is an ordeal.

I want to be real, but I'm afraid that I've just made myself up like all the other characters I've created for my life long inner fantasy world and my writings.

sorry, just having reality issues.

Panz the invalidated entity

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There is one important sentence from the first article...

"if I was a therapist"

IF

Yeah, there are crappy therapist. Yeah, I do not doubt that some took some messed up people and messed them up more. But the author seems to imply that it is all because of the book Sybl and it is a North American "invention" of sorts.

This directly contridicts that....

"In recent years Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), despite the controversy that surrounds virtually every aspect of the phenomenology, diagnosis, and treatment of this condition, has been diagnosed and treated with increasing frequency. Careful studies using reliable and valid screening measures and structured interviews have demonstrated that previously undiagnosed DID is a rather common disorder, occurring in between 3

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Panz,

I don't really know what to say, other than that I am sorry that you're in this difficult place, and I believe that if we can be brave and quiet enough to sit with ourselves, then we can often navigate the truth better.

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There is one important sentence from the first article...

"if I was a therapist"

IF

Yeah, there are crappy therapist. Yeah, I do not doubt that some took some messed up people and messed them up more. But the author seems to imply that it is all because of the book Sybl and it is a North American "invention" of sorts.

This directly contridicts that....

"In recent years Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), despite the controversy that surrounds virtually every aspect of the phenomenology, diagnosis, and treatment of this condition, has been diagnosed and treated with increasing frequency. Careful studies using reliable and valid screening measures and structured interviews have demonstrated that previously undiagnosed DID is a rather common disorder, occurring in between 3

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I am basically a geek. I don't like unanswered questions out there wandering around and annoying people :) . If I don't know something, I go look it up. I try to look at a bunch of different sources. Then my goofy brain crunches all the info and I try to phrase it so I can understand it. (Big words bad! LOL)

If my rambling while trying to make sense of things helps other people.....well cool. It's all good!

FWIW....while I am good at overall concepts, I suck at details. I read them, I comprehend them, but once I get the general idea, I promptly forget them. (I don't want my brain to run out of room you see!)

Sometimes I screw up or totally miss the point. I am pretty sure someone will point it out when I am. But hey...what do you want for free? ;)

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shit. i hit reply and then my brain went *thud*

just got back from the funny farm and not all there yet.

but i wanted to say something on this thread that went something like "yeah wifezilla you rock" and "panz i'm sorry you're having reality issues - keep talking about it cause it will get at least a little better, and i totally get it because i'm not quite sure who i am right now heh". gotta laugh at it sometimes or else i'll cry.

(side note, nothing to do with this thread sorry)

ohhh yeah i just noticed something... sounds like kind of a trend, what with the pickling ourselves for years then stopping and noticing you aren't alone up there. panz, i know you've been struggling to be dry, and abi i guess you had your own struggle too huh. we did too, but not for long enough to do any damage to ourselves thank god. well not bodily damage anyway. but i wonder how common that is? i bet it happens a lot, getting clean and then figuring this out.

(end side note)

(isn't it great to have people who type in parentheses and fix your posts when they don't make sense?)

the main thing is that yeah panz, you're real, and so are we. if you aren't real then i want to know who's doing the typing ;)

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yep. panz, we quit drinking cuz our liver gave out, and then all of a sudden "we went crazy" lol.

we still have moments of incredible invalidation. mynate says it doesn't matter if what happened really happened or we delusioned it all. he says feeling like it really happened has the same emotional effects as it really happening, so we have to deal with it in any case. *shrug*

i think if it never happened, and i only dreamed it up, i wouldn't be this messed up, though.

funny how i only go looking for invalidation when i am fragile. lol. i never look stuff up on whether or not DID is "real" when i'm stable! ditto you?

wifezilla, you rock. you clever one, you.

abigail

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We all rock or we wouldn't be here in the crazy club ;)

From what various docs have told me, and what I've read, subtance abuse is very common to people with trauma based disorders, among others.

I am glad that you are back from the funny farm Lys, I hope you are doing better

Abigail, I think that I go looking for invalidation when I am fragile and unstable as a sort of punishment. Putting myself through emotional hell because I feel weak. Wanting invalidity so that I can go back to pretending that all of this isn't/hasn't happened to me I only go looking for trouble when I want to get hurt.

Bad habits are hard to ditch

Wifezilla, you are one heck of a geek grrl, keep it comin'

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There is one important sentence from the first article...

"if I was a therapist"

IF

Yeah, there are crappy therapist. Yeah, I do not doubt that some took some messed up people and messed them up more. But the author seems to imply that it is all because of the book Sybl and it is a North American "invention" of sorts.

This directly contridicts that....

"In recent years Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), despite the controversy that surrounds virtually every aspect of the phenomenology, diagnosis, and treatment of this condition, has been diagnosed and treated with increasing frequency. Careful studies using reliable and valid screening measures and structured interviews have demonstrated that previously undiagnosed DID is a rather common disorder, occurring in between 3–6% of psychiatric inpatients and 5–18% of patients in substance-abuse treatment settings (studies summarized in Ross [1] and Kluft [2]). Although some have argued that DID is a North American culture-bound condition, the inpatient studies summarized have included cohorts from the United States, Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, and Turkey, and all demonstrated roughly comparable findings. Although cultural forces may have been prevalent in the North American cohorts, and to a lesser extent, in the Netherlands patients, DID was not part of the popular or professional cultures of either Norway or Islamic Turkey. This offers a substantial challenge to the "culture-bound syndrome" and iatrogenesis hypotheses, because if DID were indeed culture-bound and determined by social psychological factors, and if the iatrogenic creation of DID symptoms were widespread, one would expect significantly more DID patients to be found in those nations in which it had become part of the professional and cultural idioms, and in which the clinicians were presumably more "adept" at inducing its features."

http://www.ajp.org/archives/53-03-1999.html

If I were in your shoes, I would verify what I could, but try to understand I might not ever have the whole story (Hell, how many famileis REALLY know what's going on anyway? Seriously!).

Having conversed with you off and on over the past year, I don't recall you ever talking about being hypnotised or your therapist bringing this up to YOU. If I remember correctly, you stopped pickling your brain and then you noticed you weren't alone. While I do not doubt that cases of DID have been created by incompetant boobs, you dont appear to me to fit that set of circumstances.

1. That's an abstract. It's never a good idea to base an argument on an abstract. Get and read the full text.

2. The issue here is cultural relativism and cross-cultural diagnosis rates. Resenance pointed this out when you posted in the other thread.

Panz:

You are you. You are real. Yes, a body can only have one set of memories that are real.

What Dewey states on the psychweb page is fairly consistent with what I've always thought but I'm a philosophy major so what do I know?

If you have more than one set of memories, does that mean you live longer?

I do know that dissociation and DID articles at wikipedia are so bad that they made me want to start wiki project here for our users. I then hit what's turned into a yearlong rocky patch and never got back to it.

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Like I said...I check as many sources as I can (without going out and purchasing text books I can't afford). That abstract was not the only place where the information was found. It just happened to be quick, clear and readily available.

[sarcasm]

So do we need to cite all sources when comforting someone? I can understand you wanting sources for a stickie...but I was trying to be helpful to a friend. Not argue a thesis, join a debate club or get a paper published in a medical journal. (Nor was I fishing for complements.)

If someone tells you they are in a fragile state and questioning their existence, do you hand them a stack of text books and tell them to write you a research paper? If someone tries to help them do you stop them and try to tell the helpful person to write a dissertation?

If I LIED or mislead anyone, fine jump on me. But come on...really! CONTEXT...hellooooo

[/sarcasm]

I will add my other links to the DID stickie thread if it will make everyone happy. (Sheesh)

Edited to add: Yeah..those Wiki articles really do suck.

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There is one important sentence from the first article...

"if I was a therapist"

IF

Yeah, there are crappy therapist. Yeah, I do not doubt that some took some messed up people and messed them up more. But the author seems to imply that it is all because of the book Sybl and it is a North American "invention" of sorts.

This directly contridicts that....

"In recent years Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD), despite the controversy that surrounds virtually every aspect of the phenomenology, diagnosis, and treatment of this condition, has been diagnosed and treated with increasing frequency. Careful studies using reliable and valid screening measures and structured interviews have demonstrated that previously undiagnosed DID is a rather common disorder, occurring in between 3–6% of psychiatric inpatients and 5–18% of patients in substance-abuse treatment settings (studies summarized in Ross [1] and Kluft [2]). Although some have argued that DID is a North American culture-bound condition, the inpatient studies summarized have included cohorts from the United States, Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, and Turkey, and all demonstrated roughly comparable findings. Although cultural forces may have been prevalent in the North American cohorts, and to a lesser extent, in the Netherlands patients, DID was not part of the popular or professional cultures of either Norway or Islamic Turkey. This offers a substantial challenge to the "culture-bound syndrome" and iatrogenesis hypotheses, because if DID were indeed culture-bound and determined by social psychological factors, and if the iatrogenic creation of DID symptoms were widespread, one would expect significantly more DID patients to be found in those nations in which it had become part of the professional and cultural idioms, and in which the clinicians were presumably more "adept" at inducing its features."

http://www.ajp.org/archives/53-03-1999.html

If I were in your shoes, I would verify what I could, but try to understand I might not ever have the whole story (Hell, how many famileis REALLY know what's going on anyway? Seriously!).

Having conversed with you off and on over the past year, I don't recall you ever talking about being hypnotised or your therapist bringing this up to YOU. If I remember correctly, you stopped pickling your brain and then you noticed you weren't alone. While I do not doubt that cases of DID have been created by incompetant boobs, you dont appear to me to fit that set of circumstances.

1. That's an abstract. It's never a good idea to base an argument on an abstract. Get and read the full text.

2. The issue here is cultural relativism and cross-cultural diagnosis rates. Resenance pointed this out when you posted in the other thread.

Panz:

You are you. You are real. Yes, a body can only have one set of memories that are real.

What Dewey states on the psychweb page is fairly consistent with what I've always thought but I'm a philosophy major so what do I know?

If you have more than one set of memories, does that mean you live longer?

I do know that dissociation and DID articles at wikipedia are so bad that they made me want to start wiki project here for our users. I then hit what's turned into a yearlong rocky patch and never got back to it.

VE I totally understand about hitting rocky patches, I've been in one too (as you've no doubt noticed) but I agree the Wikis are really bad.

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WZ:

I don't really see the need to cite journal articles in comforting someone in the first place. It's obviously not that quick and clear or you wouldn't be trying to use it to support an unrelated point.

Article abstracts are not intended to be used as a research source material. They are basically advertisements for the the full text of the article. They deliberately leave out the data required to make any normative claims.

Here's a list of journals that offer free full text articles online:

http://www.depression-webworld.com/free_journalsndx.htm

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I want to be real, but I'm afraid that I've just made myself up like all the other characters I've created for my life long inner fantasy world and my writings.

Derealization and depersonalization ... you own private anomie ... are fairly nasty things to have to deal with. Basically the glue that holds the myriad pieces of you together is just dissolved away.

In that sense, the development of "alters" simply reflect clusters of pieces that have managed to hold together enough for the dissociated you to be asking "Is this me?" "Is THIS me?" It doesn't help that some of the jigsaw pieces may have been pulled out of the piles of dreams, half-memories, and idontwannabelikethats that we all store in the back closets of our souls.

Which pieces get tossed back into the closet, and how the rest are put together: that's how we ALL make up ourselves. A piece or two at a time, like a mosaic of broken up tiles. Your own personal mosaic may have been ripped up and mixed into random piles again, but it still exists in the scattered layers spread out before you.

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DID contoversy page #1

Wiki

More Wiki on DID

I should not read psych web site while in a fragile state, but i am having a real problem feeling like I'm real, like I exist as an identity. When I have memories or flashbacks, are they real or delusions? I have very little family left alive, and we are not at all close. Trying to get more than vague statements about my life out of my father is an ordeal.

I want to be real, but I'm afraid that I've just made myself up like all the other characters I've created for my life long inner fantasy world and my writings.

sorry, just having reality issues.

Panz the invalidated entity

Hi...my idea of reality is very pragmatic and subjective, so why bother? Maybe you could read my "TOPIC" on my member sight on "Do You Hear What I Hear?" Maybe we should just leave it as whatever it is alone and go on our merry way (so to speak) Why figure it out?

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that was a really nice post, null0trooper. beautifully said.

btw, we have a six year old in here named anomie ;) it isn't a word i see very often, so it almost startled me heh. i have no idea why she chose that name, but i know her vocabulary is way better than mine (it's just that what she says mostly makes no sense to the rest of us, or anyone else, big words or not hehe).

anyhoo.

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Which pieces get tossed back into the closet, and how the rest are put together: that's how we ALL make up ourselves. A piece or two at a time, like a mosaic of broken up tiles. Your own personal mosaic may have been ripped up and mixed into random piles again, but it still exists in the scattered layers spread out before you.

i agree with lysergia, and wanted to quote at least some of the post Null0 made.

yeah.

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I want to thank each and every one of you for your input and view points. I don't want everything in my ongoing inner struggles to be glossed over with a comforting rosy hue.On the other hand I'm not going to take smack from people who don't know what they are talking about. If we disagree about reality, reality will still be there. No blood, no foul. I'm just glad for the replies. THAT makes me feel like I'm not cut loose and free floating in the universe, and it helps. dissociation, derealization and depersonalization are all ugly states to be in. I'm having all three as obnoxious houseguests at this time and so I'm trying extra hard to make sense.

I understand that there is faction of the professional community that can make a good argument for DID being a created MI. Patient presents with a number of symptoms, looks like a lot of PTSD and dissociation. Can't remember much of the past. Over zealous therapist who watches too much daytime TV assumes that this or that MUST have happened and "Helps" the patient "remember" things, that may or may not have happened. Tells the person that when they can't remember what has happened for some section of time that they have "Alters" that are running the show. So I can understand healthy skepticism on many others part. If it happened that way to me, I'D be skeptical too.

I don't do TV (didn't like it much as a kid either), so I never heard of Sybill and who ever else that started the repressed memories thing before reading info on the net about Dissociative disorders. It didn't happen that way with me, but by some people I will be lumped into the false memories/hysterical female catagory regardless.

I can only see reality through my own filtres and experiences. I can try to see others views on what is going on in my head, but in the end its my head. *BIG SHRUG*

Thank you Null0trooper, for saying things so eloquently. And please keep posting your thoughts everyone.Everyone has a valid opinion and I am interested in them all.

I don't feel at all real today and neither does any thing else. So I'm just working through this mess, don't mind me ;)

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