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This makes no sense--yet it has just about destroyed me


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Well, I thought I had a great job, doing pharm research, gave the folks my resume and a list of personal and business refereneces--contacted them all, leaving messages for one woman I had worked with some years back. That particular company was a disaster area, and the "boss" was a true nut case--would just lie to you about things that didn't matter, but had the ability to make you think you were her best friend.

Well, apparently what happened--and probalby has BEEN happening, but no one of the slimeballs I applied with down here would tellme--is that the nice little ole lady whose husband was our insurance man, C'mas cards every year, had been giving the contact calls checking on my references to the old boss--the nutty one, who then called the company back and told them she was the nice little old lady.

At which point, the old boss proceeded to tell the prosepctive employer that I had been caught falsifying data, that I was a thief, and could not be trusted--"but maybe she hs changed by now".

This new job, the owner, realized something was strange, after gettting 5 other great references, and called me today and told me what had been said.

Now I am not naive, or stupid, and i know there are mean and weird people i this world who fuck with you just to be fucking with you--but I could not believe this. I went in this afternoon after being hysterical al day, and the new boss agreed that something was odd about all this, and she would give me a chance.

But why? I am no threat to this woman, never was--and its just beyond me that someone would go to such lengths to assisnate my character almost 5 years after I worked with her.

Of course, what little confidence I had mustered is gone, and the joy of geting the job is also gone, and I am exhausted and sad and mad and just--confused.

I am also mad as hell and it is sad to say but the bitch picked a really bad person to pick on, because I have some friends there who can and will be most unpleasant to her and her family, etc. when they find out what has happened. I am first and foremost a biker bitch and just not a good person with which to fuck. I rarely get this angry--maybe twice before in my life, but this cunt is going to pay.

But still, I just can't figure out why someone with nothing to gain would choose to lie to this extent--

Am I just stupid, or too trusting, or --what? I know there are crazy lying folks in this world, but for no reason? None at all except to injure me? After FOUR YEARS--when I did nothing to her the entire time I worked for her?

I think I gotta go back to bed and cry somemore. Yes, I have the job, but somehow, I'm just afraid the first mistake I make that will be it-- And to think of all those applications, where no one called me back--now I know why.

And no, there is legally not one thing I can do to her.

But life is short--

china

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You DO realize that people have successfully sued for less and won--I mean, an old employer gives an *honest* assessment of how the employee was, and they get sued, no matter HOW factual the assessment. This is why the vast majority of employers will basically only give name, rank, and serial number, basically.

To give provably false statements, in such a conniving way, is solid ground for a serious lawsuit.

So tell me why you have no legal recourse? And why you feel the need to set these friends on her, when lawyers are so much worse?

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And no, there is legally not one thing I can do to her.

Definitely can - slander/libel laws! You may choose not to, but you have an option.

http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/libel_and..._references.htm

http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/libel_and..._references.htm

The fact that it was false, and has caused you damage is the part that matters.

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Hi China:

Thats a really wierd set-up between insurance man & old boss. like really illegal.

its a major liability to both companies - the insurance man and the prior employer (aka bad boss).

in florida attorneys LOVE this kind of action. i know the insurance man & bad boss are in another state, but believe me, walk past an attorney's office just mumbling something like this and they will be all over it like white on rice.

db

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Nope. no suit--here's why (all those years in HR, youknow)

You give permission for a potential employer to check references. Legally, all they can ask, and all the old company can verify, is dates of employment and reason for leaving. ANYTHING else said, by anyone, cannot be verified and is technically illegal--but there is no way to prove it unless the conversation is taped (which of course it was not--and never is, cause new employer doesn't want to be sued either for asking illegal questions) The federal law states that you can only ask dates of employment and reason for leaving-because anything else might "prejudice" the new employer.

Now, we all know new employers ask old employers all kinds of things (illegally) and the old employers answer (again, illegally) BUT YOU HAVE NO PROOF--NOT EVEN IF NEW EMPLOYER IS NICE ENOUGH TO TELL YOU.

You gave the right for new emp. to call old--and unless you can verify without a shadow of a doubt what was said by who (again, tape), legally, NOTHING WAS SAID.

No lawyer in any state would touch it, because it is legal action against something that didn't exist. Even if new employer says "she told me this"--no one has any proof, and thats the end of it. The EEOC wil never get involved, because techinically, nothing illegal was done THAT CAN BE PROVED. ESPECIALLY IF OLD EMPLOYER REPRESENTED HER SELF AS SOMEONE ELSE--then the someone else gets blamed, but you still have NO PROOF.

TRUST ME ON THIS ONE, FOLKS--I have been both the new and old employer, and have given and received "off the record" (i.e., illegal ) information--but legally, my conversation covered only verification of previous employment, and sometimes, if person is eligible for rehire.

Its ugly and its wrong, but it happens. Thats why, if you had a boss that was a sociopath, like dear R., do whatever you can to keep them out of the loop. I thought I had--the company headquarters was what I listed to veryfy employment (which they did) and the "personal and professional references" that you are always asked for should be people you can trust with your life.

I thought I could trust M., who was really even an away from work friend (I always try to avoid that, but--) We exchanged C'mas cards for the last few years, bought ins. from her hubby, my hubby even took her hubby to play disc golf a time or two. NO REASON to suspect any problem--except, when I tried to callher to verify that I was using her name, she would not return my call. I shoulda known something was up.

But--I had never had a reason to think she would fuck me over. I am still not sure if she knows she did--I think maybe she just thought R. should make the reference call, not knowing her name would be used to slander me.

I'm not sure she knows now--but she will.

But its still one of the most awful betrayals I have ever experienced--it has really smacked me, and I am having a great deal of trouble getting thru the day, and the idea of starting the job on Monday is terrifying. I am having trouble sleeping, and find myself getting very anxious very quickly, and just not handling daily shit very well at all. I am still really fucked up about this, but taking action has helped--and thats enough said about that. Suffice to say, there are no lawyers involved.

thanks, guys--

china

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You just uncovered a big obsticle that has been working against you for quite some time. Now that it is in the open, it can't work against you anymore.

While you are completely justified in being totally pissed off, I think once you calm down, you will start feeling a sense of relief.

As for a lawsuit, all you do is have someone call and pretend they are looking at your resume. Have them tape the phone conversation. You will have your proof in 2 minutes.

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Taping without the knowledge and verbal consent of both parties is not admissable in any court, unless you have a wiretap order.

Yes, I know whats been fucking me up--and I know what I can and will do about it. But I have got to figure out how to get this undercontrol before Monday.

I am not so concerned now about the "what" but I cannot let go of the fact that someone hates me that much, someone who I really did nothing to. I am so fucking logical, even tho I am batshit--and this makes no sense to me, which is enough to make whatever "issues" I have much more intense.

I don't think I even make sense when I talk--I had to go by the new job today to take some papers, and I felt like a total idiot, babbling away. And of course since I had to take a drug test, Ihad to "disclose" that I am under the care of a psych, and on at least 2 drugs (the only 2 that will show are the Adderall and the Klonopin)--and now I am worried that they will change their minds because now they know I am crazy and a rambling idiot.

It brings back one of the last days on the old job, when I totally lost it and was locked inthe ladies room, crying and going nuts on the floor, calling my pnurse frantically for help. It was NOT a pretty picture, but was almost just a nasty faint memory from a while ago--no more. Now, its HERE,every single second.

If I lose the chance to at least start this job, and try to make a go of it, I can't even put into words what I feel might happen to me or what I might do, to myself or someone else. I am terrified and so afraid and I just don't know what to do or how to handle this at all.

china

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China, is it necessarily personal? look at it this way: what if the fucking bitch was looking for victims, and she saw a golden opportunity walk right in front her.

maybe it's not about *you*, but about the fact that you were in the wrong place in the wrong time. you were just a very convenient, easy target.....if she is as bad as you say she is, you were just a convenient warm body to slot into the victim hole. anyone would have done.

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I think I've worked for a few of the types like that in the past, which is probably why I only retain exactly 3 references, one of whom is related to college and not my work experience (they're generally fine with that if you're recently out of college and haven't had many useful jobs in your field).

I've had (ex-) bosses who were profusely <once I remember the word I'll put it in, I mean something like gratuitously giving compliments> while then turning tail on me and burning me. Sometimes I'd get burned and complimented within minutes of each other. I mean terms such as "brilliant and productive" and "totally worthless" almost in the same breath.

These are the people I don't trust -- people who'd profusely <again that word I can't think of> me and then split themselves and treat me as if I were the devil incarnate.

Then again, I happen to hate people in general and really wouldn't deeply vest my trust in anybody on the face of this earth.

Anyways, in some respects I'm glad my brain's rotted away from physical disease and that I've been a little further dumbed down by the Lamictal. Otherwise I think I'd be, due to these people, in jail for causing jaw(s) broken in multiple places.

In any event, I don't actually recommend hating society or having your brain rot (purposefully or otherwise). (As much as kicking these individuals in the head or sucker-punching them in the jaw would be rather satisfying.)

I think (wait, I am) I'm rambling on right now. I might be able to offer something more useful when my brain's having a better day.

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Um. Color me...confused.

Where, in "federal law", exactly, does it state what an employer MAY ask of references? To my knowledge *federal law*, in which I also include administrative rulings and the like (i.e. EEOC), has never drawn a clear line of what may be asked--the only rules that are even close to bright line are those in equal oppurtunity areas--race, creed, MI, etc.

What is proof? WHAT IS PROOF??? Prooof...only matters in criminal cases. In civil actions, such as this would be, there is no "proof"--there is only the reality that the jury believes. Case law, in this arena, is basically decided by juries and then the judges that hear the appeals--and then the judges that are appealed to after that.

I don't trust you, sorry. I HAVE been in HR, and I DO keep up on several aspects of the law, primarily torts and unemployment law. Of course you could prove me wrong, but that would mean having facts that I don't.

And by the by...

I am still really fucked up about this, but taking action has helped--and thats enough said about that. Suffice to say, there are no lawyers involved.

Take that action and there likely WILL be lawyers involved--but don't worry, I'm quite sure (cough) that they have wondeful public defenders down there. Which, of course, means nothing if something happens to her or hers, she links it to you, and a civil suit ensues.

And trust ME--I know how easily that shit gets fucked up. I also know what it's like to have an overworked public defender on your side. Fortunately, I have never been stupid enough to get involved in a civil action--losing a quarter of my paycheck would kinda hurt.

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Right-to-work states are very different--Ga. SC, FLA. And is it a matter of not "trusting "me? That seems a rather odd way of putting things, but hey--we can agree to disagree. I am not interested in attempting to get the legal system involved in this. I believe I have the job, and as for the character assasination--well, I do believe that qualifies as reallybad karma.

And, it would be nice to think it was not personal, but why go to such trouble if it wasn't?

No, the legal system is not and will not be involved, nor will I. But occasionally I get really tired of waiting for karma to catch up with reallybad people, and exercise my right and ability to give it a little boost. I do this with great care, and very infrequently--but with exceeding skill. I do not break the laws that matter to me--"do no harm" because I am not involved. Thats all I care to say about that.

china

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Seems to be a bit of a confusing story but...

what I dont understand, is why you would give out contact details of the previous job (with a nutcase boss) when you had a list of other personal and business references.

I'd never give out details of a previous job that was a "disaster area".

Anyway, what's done is done. You got the job and this nutcase woman has been uncovered. Work through yr anger but then try to put it behind you. At least you got the job, you can prove yourself, and in future you can use this one as a reference for future jobs.

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The person whose name I put down had been a good friend and co-worker--she took the message, and gave it to my ex-boss, who returned the call, using the co-worker's name--then trashed me. New Boss thought she was speaking with the co-worker whose name I had innocently given her, thinking I would get a positive reference as a friend and co-worker.

Life sux really bad. I still am afraid this job won't come thru, and thats it for me if it doesn't. I have no where else to go--no way to get there--no desire to even try.

china

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That really sux and I can imagine how you are feeling, betrayed, hurt, upset, and yr friend/coworker mistakenly giving the details to the nutcase ex-boss not knowing what would happen.

I hope that the job comes through for you. I really do.

I'm kind of in a similar situation at the moment. There's 1 job I really GOT TO GET or else I'm doomed as well. I can't work full tiime due to therapy/group session commitments and out of all the jobs I've looked at in the past month, this is the only solution for me right now. If I don't get it I feel I will give up too.

I've seen heaps of fantastic full time jobs I could get but I can't apply for them. Im sure once I tell them I'll need 2 afternoons off every week for the next 9 months, they will choose someone else who can work, and who's not mentally ill.

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Well, finally, at 4:45 PM--I called the "new boss" who was supposed to call me to day to let me know all was well (drug test, etc)

Everything is fine---I start on Monday morning. Such a relief--I have been afraid to even think ahead to working because I had such a bad feeling something would happen. I am still not out of the woods--I know they will be watching every move I make, being that they were told I was a "back-stabber", etc., and now know I am on psychiatirc drugs. I hope all this doesn't make me so nervous I do stupid things. Got to remember to just keep my mouth shut, learn whats there and go slow. Neither of the other girls in the office have been particularly friendly, but I can deal with that--Yes, in Fla they can fire you if they decide they don't like the color of your eyes--but thats nothing new to me, so if I just keep to what I need to do--

I just don't want to fuck this up--please, to the goddess of doing a good job--whoever you might be--just let me do a good job, keep my mouth shut and do what I am supposed to do.

Other really really good news last nite--my son asked his lady to marry him and of course she said of course--he was going to wait till they went to Disney in Sept., but just couldn't wait. I am estatic--she is wonderful, stable, cute, and SANE.

Maybe, just maybe I can get on with my life for a while--I'm just still terrified, like waiting for the other shoe to drop on this job thing.

Thank you all for your support, and righteous indignation on my part. It helped.

love, china (the mother-in-law-to=be)

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Hi China,

I hope you have a wonderfully peaceful weekend in preparation for your new job.

I know you can do this new job. like you said - learn the procedures and what to do. and then do it. if the office girls dont like you - well its their own damn fault because they dont know what they are missing.

Im sure you'll do just fine.

as for your son popping the question - thats excellent news!!! congrats on getting a sane DIL!!! this is wonderful. now you have something special to look forward to.

love,

december

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china--

I'm glad you're experiencing some good tidings now, and congratulations on your son and to your daughter-in-law-to-be.

And trust me, what you experienced with that ex-boss "friend" is just rotten luck. Or if you don't believe in a supernatural luck, then you're just experiencing well, a rotten experience. This is obviously not your fault. But, on the other hand, you might have learned some sort of lesson (I have no idea what the lesson is, that's up to you to figure out).

Like I said before, I've had rotten luck with employment... I have friends who, like me, are also 3 years out of college who have stable jobs with benefits and whose salaries already exceed half the six figure mark. Actually, that describes all 5 of the guys I shared a suite with for 2 years. Granted, they're (for other reasons) acting more jealous of me than I am of them, so that just goes to show to not dwell on bad luck and use your strengths instead. For example, it's obvious that you're a "people person" and have a good capability to read others' emotions, which is a great asset in your field (hehehehehe asset... sorry, immature moment there).

hi china,

i forgot about florida's "right to work" laws, which IMO is commie talk for "we can fire you at any time for any reason and dont have to say anything but 'get your ass outta here."

much love and peace,

december

Actually, it's about the opposite from communism (aside from the despotism part, take your pick... capitalism or Stalinism... I prefer capitalism, but that's just my view). Georgia has the same laws... I think you're referring to employment "at will", which is where the employer can fire the employee with no reason or notice, and also that the employee can take off with no reason or notice. In other states, the "at will" has a set limited period (in Maryland it's the first 3 months of a job, as I found out the hard way). Sorry about splitting hairs on an OT issue there, but I have a compulsion to make things clear whenever I can (this is not always a good thing).

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