Vitamin D, Thyroid, Cholesterol

[Wooster]

So I just got labs back from my regular doc (not my psyNP, though she gets a copy of everything).

After 4 months of Vitamin D supplement (mostly regularly), my vitamin D levels are still RIDICULOUSLY low (like around 10, and I gather baseline should be around 40).

For the first time EVER I've had a thyroid (T4?) show up as sub-par. We've been testing my thyroid regularly for as long as I can remember-or at least since college, anyway.

And my cholesterol is sitting at 217 (200 is the cut off for normal?)

Here's what I really want to know...

1) Which, if any of these things are symptoms of things we already know about?

2) What's the missing link? Why am I so darn vit. D deficient? I know that can cause depression. Is that part of the problem?

3) Why am I STILL so vit. D deficient after 4 mos. of 2000iu daily (plus calcium citrate to help absorb)?

4) My regular doc is likely going to want to put me on synthroid or something. I think I'm already taking too many meds. How likely is it that the thyroid will 'fix' everything else?

5) Is this part of the long-term effects of high levels of cortisol floating around in my system? Should i move into a monestary where everyone has taken vows of silence and we concentrate on polishing sticks and petting sheep all day?

Peace,

Wooster

[AirMarshall]

Hi Wooster.

I'll answer the one question that has a definite answer: If your thyroid is low and your doc rx's synthroid, take it.

Thyroid problems are probably the single most likely physical cause for symptoms that mimic MI; they can greatly exacerbate any MI; they are easily remedied with simple, effective and CHEAP meds that have little if any side effects. Whew.

Synthroid is generic, cheap and I promise you won't notice side effects when you take it other than feeling much better after a few weeks. Stronger, more alert, lively etc.

Now, let me say that I'm highly skeptical of vitamins, and supplements, and I don't waste much time reading up on it. There is a world of quackery out there. I will trust that you have a reliable doctor.

I have never of Vit. D deficiency being considered as a routine cause of depression. I don't discount the possibility, but compared to hypothyroidism, Vitamin D doesn't even get a mention in pyschiatric texts.

I assume that part of this testing was a Comrehensive Metabolic Panel blood test. Just off the cuff, double check that your calcium "C" and potassium "K" levels were normal. Problems there would be related to the Parathyroid gland. I assume that your doc would have said something. The Parathyroid gland has effects on a lot of the body, I'm not sure whether Vitamin D would play in there with calcium, etc.

A cholesterol of 212 is not going to kill you. Do you have a cortisol problem too?

If you are truly having difficulties with all these items then it's time to see an Endocrinologist who specialized in the hormonal systems of the body. A family practicitioner can't touch this stuff.

Good luck, A.M.

[Wooster]

Funny how I would't know I have a problem with all this stuff were it not for the family doc doing a fairly routine lab draw, eh?

Thanks, AM , will be doing more reading.

Vitamin D has been associated with depression, but of course, all the research is touted/sponsored by the Vitamin D Council (or whatever their name is). [link=http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/"'>http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/" target="_blank]http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/[/link]

ETA: Will check the potassium and calcium etc when I get the chance. Just had a phone call, and havent' actually seen the numbers myself yet. They did a CBC, complete metabolic panel, and several other acronyms for which I haven't a clue about what they stand for.

[AirMarshall]

Ok, I did some checking. No mention of depression due to vit. D deficiency. Now granted this is dealing with mostly severe vitamin D deficiency. I am also aware that there is an increasing number of studies that show an association of vit. D deficiency and other illnesses, but none of them are really strong enough to show direct causation. The US Navy has even studied vitamin D deficiency in submariners because they get essentially no sunlight for up to 3 months at a time. Note the parathyroid, C, and K connections.

Bottom line: Its reasonable to work on getting your D levels up to par, but don't panic or focus on this as a direct and immediate cause for MI symptoms. [edit] About 15 minutes a day of sun exposure to your face and arms is normally sufficient to produce enough Vit. D, assuming no other metabolic problems.

a.m.

p.s. Got Milk?

eMedicine: [link=http://www.emedicine.com/med/TOPIC3729.HTM"'>http://www.emedicine.com/med/TOPIC3729.HTM" target="_blank]http://www.emedicine.com/med/TOPIC3729.HTM[/link]

History

Vitamin D deficiency is often a silent disease. In children, vitamin D deficiency can present as rickets, which presents as bowing of the legs. In adults, vitamin D deficiency results in osteomalacia, which presents as a poorly mineralized skeletal matrix. These adults can experience chronic muscle aches and pains.

Vitamin D deficiency is the most common cause of nutritional rickets. Other rare genetic forms of rickets occur because of defects in vitamin D metabolism. Vitamin D

[Wooster]

Clear, concise, easy to understand.

Thanks, AM.

Now I can justify my hot chocolate addiction.

[Guest Guest]

actually, I too have a Vit D deficiency of 8. I know how you feel. My doc, a kidney doc tests for it routinely. He said that low Vit. D effects your immune system and predisposes you to Colan and Breast cancer. It most certain can be contributing to your depression. I have not been to successful with supplementation either. I have been taking the 50,000 units a week for some time and with little results. I am forcing myself to get out in the sun about 20 -30 minutes a day. That should help. It also helps to reset your internal clock as they call it. It could help you sleep at night.

High cortisol-yes. If you are under/have been tremendous stress for prolonged periods, you may have elevated cortisol levels. Eventually if you continue, they can give out. Reducing cortisol can help depression. I goggled this and saw they are studying this as a treatment in resistant depression. The studies they are doing with Cushing disease, either from tumor or added steroids are very interesting. ketoconzole is helping depression. but it it all in the early study stage now.

Some people recommend phosphatidylserine aka PS. at bedtime, usually 300- 800-mg./ you can buy that at a health food store or order it. This is supposed to lower your cortisol levels at bedtime and help you sleep.

the thyroid, try checking out this web site

stop the thyroid madness- all one word. read a bit and it will lead you to all this. make sure your thyroid doc checks your ferritin level. mine was very low. anything below 50 is bad and it can cause failure of your thyroid meds to work as --well as fatigue and it also makes restless leg syndrome worse. ferritin is your stored iron so, if it is low, you will need to replace it. usually Fersol works, i take mine 3x times a day. Wait until you have a lab result before you add iron as it may not be low .

don't stop any psych meds, you will need them too. but if you correct some basic health problems, perhaps the psych meds will work.

Unfortunately some docs do not check basic stuff anymore, like vit deficiency, like D, and ferritin. These things do affect how you feel. Even in a civilized country you Can how a goiter, low Vit d and low ferttin.

[null0trooper]

There's a world of difference between "elevated cortisol" from nonstop daily stress and Cushing's... so let's make this simple enough for everyone to understand: don't fuck around with the endocrine system!

As to iron - if Wooster's female (I forget), I'm sure the doctor's checking iron levels at least as part of the bloodwork for an annual checkup. However, in some European populations, a minority inherit the tendency towards excess stored iron levels (hemochromatosis) which is a potential cause of thyroid deficiency and adrenal damage.

[wifezilla]

1) Which, if any of these things are symptoms of things we already know about?

Metabolic Syndrome?

2) What's the missing link? Why am I so darn vit. D deficient? I know that can cause depression. Is that part of the problem?

Vitamin D deficiency is common in the obese, diabetics, people with heart disease and people with depression. Why? Not sure yet, but Vitamin D isn't just a vitamin, but a pre-hormone. One more thing...are you taking D2 or D3?

3) Why am I STILL so vit. D deficient after 4 mos. of 2000iu daily (plus calcium citrate to help absorb)?

2000IU is considered by some to actually be a small amount. When I supplement over the winter, I take 4000IU.

4) My regular doc is likely going to want to put me on synthroid or something. I think I'm already taking too many meds. How likely is it that the thyroid will 'fix' everything else? Depends. It might. Worth a short. Also consider Armour. Some people do very well on the natural "old school" stuff who don't do well on the synthroid.

5) Is this part of the long-term effects of high levels of cortisol floating around in my system? Should i move into a monestary where everyone has taken vows of silence and we concentrate on polishing sticks and petting sheep all day? LOLOL

Here is a great site with vitamin D info...

[link=http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/"'>http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/" target="_blank]http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/[/link]

"Vitamin D is a steroid hormone precursor that has recently been found to play a role in a wide variety of diseases. Current research indicates vitamin D deficiency plays a role in causing seventeen varieties of cancer as well as heart disease, stroke, hypertension, autoimmune diseases, diabetes, depression, chronic pain, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, muscle weakness, muscle wasting, birth defects, and periodontal disease.

This does not mean that vitamin D deficiency is the only cause of these diseases, or that you will not get them if you take vitamin D. What it does mean is that vitamin D, and the many ways in which it affects a person's health, can no longer be overlooked by the health care industry nor by individuals striving to achieve and maintain a greater state of health."

[crazycatnapper]

I've become very interested in Vit D lately. One of my friends has Grave's and her new endo found her D levels to be VERY low. Her doctor tends to think it's very underdiagnosed in many people. For some reason, quite a few people have problems with absorbing Vit D. It's very common among autoimmune disorders and since they are leaning that direction with Narcolepsy, I am making an appointment with her doctor. She's very well respected and considered top notch.

It will be interesting in the coming years to see what type of information they find connecting Vit D and some diseases. As for depression, I have no idea, but it doesn't seem like it would hurt to try it; however, I have not studied it enough to know that much about it and if it's toxic, can throw off other things, etc.

Just thought I'd add my two cents because of what my friend has found and she feels much better overall and her depression is lifting.

[wifezilla]

One thing they have found recently in Australia is a rise in cancer and bone disease after a successful campaign to get everyone to use sunscreen.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/12/...6813083745.html

"A quarter of a century after the Slip, Slop, Slap skin-cancer campaign was launched, several prominent endocrinologists, orthopedic specialists and other experts say the message to cover up has led to vitamin D deficiencies in between 30% and 70% of the population."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/25/1038173697931.html

I also wonder about seasonal affective disorder. Is it the lack of light or the lack of vitamin d....or both?

[null0trooper]

I also wonder about seasonal affective disorder. Is it the lack of light or the lack of vitamin d....or both?

With regard to SAD, depression, and cholesterol/Vit. D, it doesn't really matter. Some sunlight every day is cheap and beneficial. However, too much sunlight every day (and you wonder why our ancestors usually kept covered/shaded) is very bad indeed.

[Sunshine]

There must be some correlation between Vitamin D and depression (or at least speculation within the psychiatric community) because my pdoc is all over this. He was downright excited when my levels came back deficient (15 ng/dl) - said it was his first documented case (though I'm not sure how often he tests for such things as it was my first time and I've been seeing him for 10 years).

The little bit of reading I've done on Vitamin D supplements is that absorption can be difficult. It's best to try to increase your levels through diet and sun exposure. I just started taking the supplements, though. It will be interesting to see what the next round of blood tests show.

[wifezilla]

Vitamin D absorption is a problem when there isn't enough fat present. D is a fat soluble vitamin. If you have the dry tablets, take them with a meal or with some fish oil capsules. Also make sure your supplement is D3, NOT D2.

Here are a few more interesting links...

Vitamin D Calculator: http://www.thevitamindcure.com/calculator

http://www.lookingfit.com/hotnews/vitamin-...ts-figures.html

"Almost twice as many of the patients with vitamin D deficiency died during the course of the study, according to results published Monday in the Archives of Internal Medicine, a publication of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).

Of 737 patients died, 307 were from the group with the lowest blood levels of vitamin D, while 103 were from the group with the highest."

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jSFWbo...l2yIZjmOhr-xtOQ

"For people suffering from chronic pain, an extra dose of vitamin D may offer a better treatment option, according to a new research report.

An extensive review by Stewart B. Leavitt, author of the report, suggests that inadequate vitamin D intake leads to chronic painful maladies, including bone and joint pain of various types, muscle pain, fibromyalgia syndrome, rheumatic disorders, osteoarthritis, and other complaints.

Moreover, lack of vitamin D also has been associated with the mood disturbances of chronic fatigue syndrome and seasonal affective disorder. "

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Health/...how/3148754.cms

"In studies in rats, Simpson and his team report the first concrete evidence that treatment with activated vitamin D can protect against heart failure. Their results appear in the July issue of the Journal of Cardiovascular Pharmacology."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80611135038.htm

[null0trooper]

Vitamin D absorption is a problem when there isn't enough fat present. D is a fat soluble vitamin. If you have the dry tablets, take them with a meal or with some fish oil capsules. Also make sure your supplement is D3, NOT D2.

Oh, screw all that.

Here's all you need to do.

1. Before lunch, take yer vitamin tablets

2. Chow down on a nicely grilled hunk of meat, and a baked potato w/extra virgin olive oil and fresh herbs.

Maybe some garlic bread. Not a garlic pill. The real stuff. Sautee' up a freaking head of garlic in butter

or more olive oil til it's soft and dredge some proper bread through the garlic goodness.

3. Finish it off outside with some sunlight and a cold brewski, or wine if you swing that way

If you feel bad after that, it's your own damned fault.

[Silver]

Unless you live in the Great White North, in which case there may be a little more in order. Add some cod liver oil or equivalent to that hunk of tissue.

And supplement the bambino if exclusively breastfeeding and mommy/baby are both under wraps or otherwise not UV exposed...

Yours in pallor,

S.

(although I'm going to go make garlic sourdough bread right now and take it, a bottle of wine, and my book out to the hayfield) (it's medically necessary) (null said so)

[wifezilla]

Other than the potato and the bread, that sounds like a good idea

[null0trooper]

Other than the potato and the bread, that sounds like a good idea

Not everyone is a rapid Atkins devotee, although several in my family would contend that salad isn't food, it's what food eats. Then again, I forget how old I was before I realized that not all adults take coumadin