wifezilla Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Dear religious fundamentalist wacko, Crack a fucking history book you ignorant moron. Christ is NOT the reason for the season. PAGANS are the ones that started it. Mistletoe, yule logs, exchanging presents, the freaking Christmas tree. Is any of that in the bible??? NO! It all predates Christianity. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas, BUT YOU DIDN'T INVENT IT, you stole IT! So quite telling me JESUS is the reason for the season!!! He may have been a swell guy, but the holiday doesn't belong to him. Sorry all, I get this way when stupid customers go all holier than thou on me. And that Catholic spokes model on Fox (Father John). Sheeshh! Merry fucking Saturnalia (here is an interesting site if you are interested in the historical aspect... http://www.new-life.net/chrtms15.htm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borzage Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I think "Jesus is the reason for the season" is a catchy phrase meant to remind Christians that Christmas is a religious holiday, not a commercial holiday. Pagans still celebrate the winter solstice. Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus at this time also. No one stole anything from anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysergia Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 woot! you go. i'm right behind ya (watch your wallet heh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Heh. Well not a Christian, but then I don't go dancing naked around the Maypole either. Actually ... no. I might do that it sounds like fun. I like Christmas or whatever you like to call it. Good excuse for giving ppl presents and spending lots of money without being told off too much. Though they keep telling me off at work for giving them stuff. Ah well. I'm sticking to the original customs of the pagans I guess, the gift giving thing. Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borzage Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Instead of walking around bearing an unnecessary burden of pagan oppression, you might think of what was celebrated before Saturnalia. We have evidence that Stone Age humans tracked the skies and celebrated the winter solstice. All solstices and equinoxes, among other astronomical events, have been honored as long as humans have existed. Did the Romans "steal" the winter solstice celebration to make Saturnalia? Probably not. I don't view it as robbery so much as cultural and religious evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustyJr Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 WHATEVER........... seems like a spirtitual topic. True Love, hmmmmmmmmm , do think there must be SOME likliness of a good spirtitual common theme going down,no matter the reason for some to become the child that rejoices on being alive in three dimentional space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifezilla Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 No one stole anything from anyone. I disagree for the simple reason that the Catholic spokes model (Father John) was on Fox twice last week all pissed off that the atheist put up a "tree of knowledge" in a free speech zone in Philadelphia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAm-TW-Ml6Q Plus we have a lot of uber religious people in our area...so lots of preaching at me and I have to smile when I want to beat them with a history book. This was more just a vent for me. We actually DO celebrate Christmas as a cultural thing. (I feel better now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangergirl Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I been caught stealin', once when I was five, I enjoy stealin', it's just as simple as that......sing it!! We sat around the pile. We sat and laughed. We sat and laughed and Waved it into the air! And we did it just like that. When we want something, We don't want to pay for it. I'm thinking that Jane's Addiction might've been on to something here....this is what opening xmas presents was like at our house...LOL. Sorry you guys - I couldn't help it...your posts got me thinking about this song and this one section, well, for my silly little brain, it couldn't've been more perfect. *giggling* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifezilla Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 I never thought of Jane's Addiction as a Christmas band before...LOLOLOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
december_brigette Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 hi all, perry farrell aside, i had never heard of "saturnalia." so, i went the cheap route and looked it up on wikipedia. and it gives a completely different view of "saturnalia" than what has been presented on CB, so far in this thread. and dont even start about the issues of "wikipedia." find other references supporting YOUR views. as for me, considering becoming jewish, if people want to celebrate christmas as jesus' birthday....fine whatever. BUT i dont remember a tree with lights & ornaments being in the nativity scene. so, i will celebrate it what I term the "american secular" way and that is having a tree with lights & ornaments (thank you mom for setting it up) and exchanging presents. and eating food. and watching the kids play with their new toys. and watching my baby look at the lights and touching the tree. and then trying to put it in her mouth....which i then physically prohibit. i already sent out holiday cards. and there are a lot of holidays in december!! and then there is always "festivus" for the rest of us...with the aluminum pole, feats of strength, and airing of grievances!!! db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifezilla Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 One of the local shops holds a festivus celebration complete with a pole of grievances [link= target="_blank] [/link] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withing Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Gonna have to agree with Wifezilla on this one... Many of the so called "Christian traditions" associated with Christmas that people preach at the rest of us aren't Christian at all, and they need to crack open a history book. I've recieved more than one email when working in an office environment blaring the "Christ in Christmas" attitute - including one that said "This is not a holiday tree or a season, it's a Christmas tree!" Made me want to chew iron and spit nails. Of course, I'm all for Christians celebrating their holiday any way they want to. After all, I'm Agnostic, and I usually totally dig the Winter Holidays - the more the merrier! But, I truly resent it when the fundies try to shove their beliefs down my throat - and they're wrong! However, after I'm through being pissed, I still wish them a great holiday. After all, why let them ruin it for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustyJr Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 But, I truly resent it when the fundies try to shove their beliefs down my throat - and they're wrong! wrong for preaching or is the preaching content wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withing Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 But, I truly resent it when the fundies try to shove their beliefs down my throat - and they're wrong! wrong for preaching or is the preaching content wrong? hahaha... that would be both I suppose. I don't mind people telling me about what they believe in, but having it shoved down my throat is just plain wrong... and when the facts are wrong too, well, that's a double whammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifezilla Posted December 22, 2007 Author Share Posted December 22, 2007 I agree Patheral, Once I got the rant out of my system, I really DO want people to have a good Christmas, but for goodness sake, know what you are celebrating and WHY! (And I have several of those emails too...even worse is when some relative calls and says "Did you get me email about Christmas?" LOL ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 WZ: have you been Saved? *ducks and runs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.mcmurphy Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 i know not nor want to have knowledge of the origin of the commercial feeding frenzy that is part and parcel of "christmas", yet i thought this germain to the ebb and flow of the topic: ROME - The church where the tradition of celebrating Christmas on Dec. 25 may have begun was built near a pagan shrine as part of an effort to spread Christianity, a leading Italian scholar says. Italian archaeologists last month unveiled an underground grotto that they believe ancient Romans revered as the place where a wolf nursed Rome's legendary founder Romulus and his twin brother Remus. A few feet from the grotto, or "Lupercale," the Emperor Constantine built the Basilica of St. Anastasia, where some believe Christmas was first celebrated on Dec. 25. Constantine ended the frequent waves of anti-Christian persecutions in the Roman empire by making Christianity a lawful religion in 313. He played a key role in unifying the beliefs and practices of the early followers of Jesus. In 325, he convened the Council of Nicaea, which fixed the dates of important Christian festivals. It opted to mark Christmas, then celebrated at varying dates, on Dec. 25 to coincide with the Roman festival celebrating the birth of the sun god, Andrea Carandini, a professor of archaeology at Rome's La Sapienza University, told reporters Friday. The Basilica of St. Anastasia was built as soon as a year after the Nicaean Council. It probably was where Christmas was first marked on Dec. 25, part of broader efforts to link pagan practices to Christian celebrations in the early days of the new religion, Carandini said. "The church was built to Christianize these pagan places of worship," he said. "It was normal to put a church near these places to try to 'save' them." Rome's archaeological superintendent Angelo Bottini, who did not take part in Carandini's research, said that hypothesis was "evocative and coherent" and "helps us understand the mechanisms of the passage from paganism to Christianity." Bottini and Carandini both said future digs could bolster the link between the shrine and the church if structures belonging to the "Lupercale" are found directly below the basilica. The Basilica St. Anastasia was the first church to rise not on the ancient city's outskirts, but on the Palatine Hill, the palatial center of power and religion in imperial Rome, Carandini said. Though little known today, at the time of Constantine it was one of the most important basilicas for Christians in Rome, he said. The "Lupercale" shrine - named after the "lupa," Latin for she-wolf - is 52 feet below ground. So far, archaeologists have only been able to see it by inserting probes and cameras that have revealed a vaulted ceiling decorated with colored marble and a white imperial eagle. Though some experts have expressed doubts that the grotto is in fact the mythological nursery of Romulus and Remus, most archaeologists believe the shrine fits the descriptions found in ancient texts, and plans are being drawn up to excavate the structure further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croix Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 The reason Croix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest p Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 [link=http://www.nonzerochance.com/images/axialtiltcolor-big.png" target="_blank]The reason[/link] Croix AMEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineOutside Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Hi all, One of my eighteen year old sons disclosed to me a few months ago that he is an Atheist and I think that my younger sister is an Agnostic. My other 18 year old son believes in Christ. This year I have scaled down Christmas to almost nothing. No decorations. Except for one center piece with a small manger scene and a beautiful candle with shiny beads. Only presents for my children. And some nice candles for my sister and parents. That's it. We are all going to a movie tomorrow early afternoon. That's it. Maybe dinner out tonight. MAYBE. I will probably celebrate my reason for the season by myself with a brief reading of the birth of Christ and a prayer by candlelight. I want to be respectful of my family's varying beliefs. So, I guess will celebrate our freedom to choose our own Reasons for the Season. Aahh, so much less stress and more peace and contentment for me! Peace and contentment to you too! SO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borzage Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I'm an atheist from a mixed-religion background, and I love Christmas for personal reasons, mostly having to do with sparkly lights and shiny things. Jesus has nothing to do with it (for me), although it seems like he was a cool cat, and the world would be a better place if people stopped using Christ as a vanity plate and took his teachings to heart. It's cool that everyone has their own reasons for the season. Obligatory gift buying and being preached at sucks, I agree. By the way, if you stare at that axial tilt image of the earth for 15 seconds, then look at a piece of white paper, the earth will look blue and pink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifezilla Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 Croix...LOL....good one. Sunshine....Thanks! And have a Happy Holiday...or a Merry Whatever Thanks Murphy. Great post. And mad..I agree. I do like the holidays. For me it more memories and cultural stuff. it seems like he was a cool cat, and the world would be a better place if people stopped using Christ as a vanity plate and took his teachings to heart. Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenbean Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 This year I have scaled down Christmas to almost nothing. No decorations. Except for one center piece with a small manger scene and a beautiful candle with shiny beads. Only presents for my children. And some nice candles for my sister and parents. That's it. Aahh, so much less stress and more peace and contentment for me! that sounds perfect, sunshine. i've scaled my celebration way down this season and i think i'm gonna keep it that way from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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