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Dexedrin for OCD?


Guest Guest_Patrick_*

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Guest Guest_Patrick_*

I had a medication evaluation and ended up being given dexedrin...

I know it is mostly used for ADD/ADHD type problems, but it really seems to quiet down obsessive looping thoughts for me (only taken for 2 days though). I have taken most of the ssris in the past and they all caused permanent sleeplessness and anorgasmia, plus that flattened affect 'artificial personality' feeling. This feels different, but i'm not used to a drug that actually works, so i'm waiting for the insidious nasty side effects to creep in...

does anyone know about stimulants for OCD, or have any experience of them, and is tolerence a problem?

what about the whole 'improves executive function' argument? (and the implications of elevating dopamine)

Interesting, without the dexerin, I would never have been able to concentrate long enough to write that without deconstructing my reasons for doing so and running away ;)...

Thanks

Patrick

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Anything with a euphoric component might mitigate the distraction of your symptoms: stimulants, opioids, some hypnotics. You'll find that docs try anything and everything for OCD. My problem with taking Ritalin was: from 30 min to 2:30 after ingestion... felt motivated, not bad. At 3 hours, obsessive energy took over. At 5 hours, I felt depressed and more liable to ruminate on uncomfortable things. Stimulants tend to mean downs along with the ups and that applied to OCD as well for me.

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I know it makes my OCD worse if I'm not taking something else to control it.

There is such a thing as overfucsed ADD that may be similar and which does sometimes respond to stimulants though.

3. Overfocused ADD, with symptoms of trouble shifting attention, cognitive inflexibility, difficulty with transitions, excessive worrying, and oppositional and argumentative behavior. There are often also symptoms of inattention and hyperactivity-impulsivity. Brain SPECT imaging typically shows increased activity in the anterior cingulate gyrus and decreased prefrontal cortex activity. This subtype typically responds best to medications that enhance both serotonin and dopamine availability in the brain, such as venlafaxine or a combination of an SSRI (such as fluoxetine or sertraline) and a psychostimulant.

http://www.amenclinics.com/bp/atlas/ch12.php

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Does anyone have input into the long term implications of taking these kinds of stimulants every day? the stuff feels somewhat hard on my body... (increased blood pressure, cardiac output and rate etc.), and I can do things when i'm skating which i couldn't before, which is worrying ;). Basically a feeling of unsustainability, and 'paying later'. But it definitely seems to quiet down obsessional looping, or at least reduce the feeling of being bound to act on it...

i reduced it down to 10mg/day, divided, because of this sort of thing, but the second dose still seems to cause this 'stealing from tomorrow' feeling.

Thanks for people's suggestions

A tired yet still wired Patrick

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Yes...

Feed Feed Feed!

and the stuff's hard to dose right too...

(the need to reach into your wallet at random points in the day to get the little pill split pieces, a little too much obsession along the lines of how many mg already today)

that sneaking puritanical am I abusing it feeling

I hate puritanism directed at anyone else but seem to apply it to myself in this horrible way

Have you been taking the same amount for 10 years?

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and the stuff's hard to dose right too...

(the need to reach into your wallet at random points in the day to get the little pill split pieces, a little too much obsession along the lines of how many mg already today)

If you're going to the trouble of splitting the pills, you'd have a much easier time of keepign track if you put the halves into empty gelcaps. Many health food stores carry them.

that sneaking puritanical am I abusing it feeling

I hate puritanism directed at anyone else but seem to apply it to myself in this horrible way

All your life you've been told "Speed Kills" Now you're in a position of needing it to deal with a real problem (OCD or overfocused ADD - both suck.) And on top of that you might even be wondering how people get addicted to the crazy stuff... But as long as you don't abuse the medication by taking too much, or taking it to get high, there's a good chance that tolerance will develop only slowly if at all.

By the way, part of what you described reminds me of my own internal running commentary - continually going over what could have been or should have been said or done, or should be/could be next time - like a comedian's "slow burn" routine (if only it were funny.) If any of your actual problems are tied in with comorbid ADHD, I can see that adding in dexedrine could be helpful.

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and the stuff's hard to dose right too...

(the need to reach into your wallet at random points in the day to get the little pill split pieces, a little too much obsession along the lines of how many mg already today)

If you're going to the trouble of splitting the pills, you'd have a much easier time of keepign track if you put the halves into empty gelcaps. Many health food stores carry them.

that sneaking puritanical am I abusing it feeling

I hate puritanism directed at anyone else but seem to apply it to myself in this horrible way

All your life you've been told "Speed Kills" Now you're in a position of needing it to deal with a real problem (OCD or overfocused ADD - both suck.) And on top of that you might even be wondering how people get addicted to the crazy stuff... But as long as you don't abuse the medication by taking too much, or taking it to get high, there's a good chance that tolerance will develop only slowly if at all.

By the way, part of what you described reminds me of my own internal running commentary - continually going over what could have been or should have been said or done, or should be/could be next time - like a comedian's "slow burn" routine (if only it were funny.) If any of your actual problems are tied in with comorbid ADHD, I can see that adding in dexedrine could be helpful.

I don't know about you, but with me it seems oddly tied to greeting rituals, like 'how are you today' is always very difficult, and seeing spontaneous emotion in other people or music and getting very overstimulated by it, taking it very seriously. There are the more usual OCD things too (a bizarre fear of running water at night, a feeling of being followed by an invisible watching presence so that i have to hold my arm over a door after i enter a room and close it behind me 'so that it can't get in'). Watching someone try to do something and feeling like it is hopeless and i have to stop them before they destroy it, and then taking it away and running off. It leads into a compulsion to 'sacrifice myself' to the situation, so i will hit myself and try to incite the people around me to hit me, and at that point i have no control over it and it will continue till i am exhausted physically. This has happend many times at school and work, with the police, any kind of 'authority'. I engineered a situation at school where i refused to hand in one thing that was necessary for me to graduate, and then created this whole destructive situation i couldn't prevent, i ended up being thrown out. This type of behavior and the way my family has always reacted to it has alienated me from most of them too, since my dad's been very sick if i talk to them on the phone i feel already guilty and 'sentenced' so there is nothing to say.

It's a bit like a flywheel. You get some generalised, unfalsifiable thought like 'maybe i'm just crap'. It leads to a need to categorise everything you've done since birth into 'good' and 'bad', which is of course impossible and endless. Then this mental narrator starts up referring to you in the third person. Anything anyone else says is taken and warped and fed into the system. Then the people around you become like tools to enforce punishment on you. It is set off by situations most people would find enjoyable, and destorys the whole concept of something being enjoyable. There are some real things that happened to me in this pattern, but now it just runs on its own. Especially if the people involved are representitives of any kind of institution.

UUUUUmmmmmm, well, that just kind of fell out didn't it...

Any of that familiar?

Thanks

Patrick

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It's a bit like a flywheel. You get some generalised, unfalsifiable thought like 'maybe i'm just crap'. It leads to a need to categorise everything you've done since birth into 'good' and 'bad', which is of course impossible and endless. Then this mental narrator starts up referring to you in the third person. Anything anyone else says is taken and warped and fed into the system. Then the people around you become like tools to enforce punishment on you. It is set off by situations most people would find enjoyable, and destorys the whole concept of something being enjoyable. There are some real things that happened to me in this pattern, but now it just runs on its own. Especially if the people involved are representitives of any kind of institution.

UUUUUmmmmmm, well, that just kind of fell out didn't it...

Any of that familiar?

Some of it's familiar - like taking over someone else's task - but the reasons behind it are different for me... I'd be getting impatient over it not going fast enough or well enough or the person's making the same mistakes, which feeds into the low tolerance for frustration, and then on into the irritation and button-pressing.

The social "Escalation" game is familiar. The trouble is that pressing buttons gets a response, which releases noradrenaline, which helps one think/feel more clearly, which clearly justifies another poke ... and it can all rapidly spiral into an uncontrollable mess. The difference may be that the OCD gives you an initial shove in a bad direction before you can even think about thinking about what you're doing.

The impression I get is that somewhere along the way, the ADHD and OCD parts of your brain got together to find a way of feeding off each other's quirks. There is one cool aspect of your problem - I never really figured how a person could be both ADHD and OCD, but you gave a good explanation. The bad part is that it clearly sucks, and anything that works to get you back a bit more in control of yourself is a good thing.

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It's a bit like a flywheel. You get some generalised, unfalsifiable thought like 'maybe i'm just crap'. It leads to a need to categorise everything you've done since birth into 'good' and 'bad', which is of course impossible and endless.

why is this an unfalsifiable thought? i'm just curious if you're familiar with cognitive/ behavioral therapy, or David Burns' book 'Feeling Good' or any others. this sounds like an example he would use of a thought you could apply rational thinking to. for example, you could ask yourself "why do i think i'm just crap? - what examples am i using? what is the definition of someone who is a crappy person?"

then you're forced to come up with a definition, and see how it does or doesn't apply. i think if you were familiar with david burns' 'cognitive distortions' you could easily see how you're overgeneralizing, labeling etc. no person is 'crap'. that's just a label you apply to yourself when you're feeling angry or disappointed with yourself, but it doesn't have any objective or permanent meaning to you.

of course i know how much ocd thinking can speed everything up, and be hard to rationalize, but that sounds more like a problem with self-esteem or self-labeling, and if you learned some cognitive behavioral techniques you could easily refute that notion, and not launch yourself into a never ending process of categorizing your good and bad behaviors. you just need to learn to talk back to yourself at those particular occasions and realize 'no you ARE NOT crap, that is just the emotional part of your brain taking over' and not feed that thought by trying to find ways to prove it true. recognize that its just a thought. it does not make it true or untrue, just becuase you think or feel it.

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no i do refute it consciously, but am still bound to follow the 'procedure' like a puppet. There is a definite split. The whole point of the example was to illustrate the stupidity of the thoughts. It is unfalsifiable because meaningless. Ego alien. Of course there things are far more compelling if there is a current real situation going on that can be loaded with them, but the ease of intellectually refuting a thought like that is precisely the most painful part, because it makes no difference. This is one of the problems i have with CBT that is based around 'thought stopping' or 'thought disecction'. I think exposure based CBT would more helpful though.

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"The social "Escalation" game is familiar. The trouble is that pressing buttons gets a response, which releases noradrenaline, which helps one think/feel more clearly, which clearly justifies another poke ... and it can all rapidly spiral into an uncontrollable mess."

which kinds of responses are you associating with noradrenaline release?

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest newaddguy

Nullotrooper.

I am like that, always wondering what could, should have been, etc, what if things to the 500000th degree, etc. I wonder if this doctor is on to something with thinking I have the anxiety and add.

and the stuff's hard to dose right too...

(the need to reach into your wallet at random points in the day to get the little pill split pieces, a little too much obsession along the lines of how many mg already today)

If you're going to the trouble of splitting the pills, you'd have a much easier time of keepign track if you put the halves into empty gelcaps. Many health food stores carry them.

that sneaking puritanical am I abusing it feeling

I hate puritanism directed at anyone else but seem to apply it to myself in this horrible way

All your life you've been told "Speed Kills" Now you're in a position of needing it to deal with a real problem (OCD or overfocused ADD - both suck.) And on top of that you might even be wondering how people get addicted to the crazy stuff... But as long as you don't abuse the medication by taking too much, or taking it to get high, there's a good chance that tolerance will develop only slowly if at all.

By the way, part of what you described reminds me of my own internal running commentary - continually going over what could have been or should have been said or done, or should be/could be next time - like a comedian's "slow burn" routine (if only it were funny.) If any of your actual problems are tied in with comorbid ADHD, I can see that adding in dexedrine could be helpful.

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"The social "Escalation" game is familiar. The trouble is that pressing buttons gets a response, which releases noradrenaline, which helps one think/feel more clearly, which clearly justifies another poke ... and it can all rapidly spiral into an uncontrollable mess."

which kinds of responses are you associating with noradrenaline release?

On my end, anything louder, faster, more interesting, newer, different ... anything that helps me wake up.

In any case, Big Red Buttons were made for poking at when bored. ;)

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Guest newaddguy

Nullo,

So I just read your other post, frustration about things not getting done quick enough, just jumping in to fix the issues, taking over others work, etc. This is right on with me and I also guess that I repeat myself alot to get my point across.

So what works best for you for meds?

"The social "Escalation" game is familiar. The trouble is that pressing buttons gets a response, which releases noradrenaline, which helps one think/feel more clearly, which clearly justifies another poke ... and it can all rapidly spiral into an uncontrollable mess."

which kinds of responses are you associating with noradrenaline release?

On my end, anything louder, faster, more interesting, newer, different ... anything that helps me wake up.

In any case, Big Red Buttons were made for poking at when bored. ;)

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Nullo,

So I just read your other post, frustration about things not getting done quick enough, just jumping in to fix the issues, taking over others work, etc. This is right on with me and I also guess that I repeat myself alot to get my point across.

So what works best for you for meds?

Desipramine + Adderall + caffeine PRN has been the most stable, long-term. I'm finally shifting into trimonthly visits with the doctor.

The best for mood and productivity was Wellbutrin + Adderall, but then one day the induced partials didn't stop. So much for that combination.

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  • 1 year later...

"The social "Escalation" game is familiar. The trouble is that pressing buttons gets a response, which releases noradrenaline, which helps one think/feel more clearly, which clearly justifies another poke ... and it can all rapidly spiral into an uncontrollable mess."

which kinds of responses are you associating with noradrenaline release?

On my end, anything louder, faster, more interesting, newer, different ... anything that helps me wake up.

In any case, Big Red Buttons were made for poking at when bored. ;)

I have sensory integration issues, where at times things are too loud, too bright, too much.... Then as a polar opposite, I feel the need for anything louder, faster, and such.

Pretty interesting stuff. I was just recently started on Dexedrine to address some additional issues I've continued to have, on top of my previous cocktail.

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