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"Trigger" Suicide? No!


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;)

Is there a treatment gap here that I've been ignoring?

I have Treatment Resistant Depression but this may apply to many more.

I was told not too long ago that I should pretend to be suicidal to get into a hospital for much needed help. That felt like an injustice somehow. I was indignant and did not go that route but should have I?

Should I continue to tolerate this intolerable pain day after day, month after month, year after year? This is what I have done before. I don't know that hospitalizations are the answer (I've had three before) but are they better than doing nothing when the constant med changes do not work and we spend years in misery?

Is there another answer between Pdocs, tdocs, groups, and outpatient/inpatient hospitalization? Seemingly not and I don't know what there could be.

This is what I Do know.

Eerily familiar place of intense mental, emotional, and physical pain, feelings/certainty of helplessness, doom, and hopelessness and a seemingly inability to take care of myself in the most basic of ways.

Is anyone with me? Maybe my mind/body is just so crazed with pain that I'm not thinking clearly and if so, please, PLEASE, get me back on the right track.

What do you do when you mind & body are shutting down and the pain is increasing to the point where you won't make yourself get up to go to Pdocs, tdocs, outpatient hospitalizations, pay your bills, go to the grocery store, have contact with people, make friends, try to enjoy anything, or do anything else. How long can someone go on this way?

Any comments would be of great help today.

Bleak and scared,

Sunshine Outside

Revised 2-8-08

Dx: Bipolar II,(TRD), GAD, SA, Hypothyroidism.

Current Treatment: Lithium ER, Cytomel, Lorazepam, Trazodone, Lamictal, Provigil, Levoxyl, Effexor XR, Vagal Nerve Stimulator.

Vitamins: Daily Supplement for Women. E 400 I.U. PhosphatidylSerine 200mg., Super B Complex Vitamin C 500 mg, 3000 mg Fish Oil.

Past Treatment: Too many meds to remember. ECT.

Current Results: Too much pain.

"To climb steep hills

requires slow pace at first"

-Shakespeare

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What do you do when you mind & body are shutting down and the pain is increasing to the point where you won't make yourself get up to go to Pdocs, tdocs, outpatient hospitalizations, pay your bills, go to the grocery store, have contact with people, make friends, try to enjoy anything, or do anything else. How long can someone go on this way?

When you're talking about physical pain, there really is a point at which you are forced to just live with it because nothing safely works. And I do know people who've had to live that way for years.

For emotional pain, I don't know. I think there's a point at which you end up having to make yourself just keep on keeping on. I do know that there have been days that I've only gotten out of bed because I had nothing better to do than go to work and assume I could take the rest of the day off if things got worse. That may be one of the "nice" things about ADHD - that it's sometimes easy to get sidetracked from any mental track.

In the past, people at the end of their ropes would go on extended "holiday" or "retreat", but that can be expensive. For numerous reasons, the hospital stays that have largely replaced them are getting ever shorter and less able to fill the same decompression functions. An outpatient program close to out-of-state relatives might be the only remaining way to get away from the current environment and get some sort of therapy for more than just a couple of weeks.

Some medical options may remain, even among your past failed trials (a miserable side effect in the past may not seem so important when you're feeling THIS bad.) For all their faults, the SSRIs and the old-line antipsychotics are usually good at numbing emotional pain. There are also some "heroic" med combinations that you may not have tried. However, radical changes in the middle of a nosedive usually require a hospital stay in case the doctors push things along too fast.

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What do you do when you mind & body are shutting down and the pain is increasing to the point where you won't make yourself get up to go to Pdocs, tdocs, outpatient hospitalizations, pay your bills, go to the grocery store, have contact with people, make friends, try to enjoy anything, or do anything else. How long can someone go on this way?

When you're talking about physical pain, there really is a point at which you are forced to just live with it because nothing safely works. And I do know people who've had to live that way for years.

For emotional pain, I don't know. I think there's a point at which you end up having to make yourself just keep on keeping on. I do know that there have been days that I've only gotten out of bed because I had nothing better to do than go to work and assume I could take the rest of the day off if things got worse. That may be one of the "nice" things about ADHD - that it's sometimes easy to get sidetracked from any mental track.

In the past, people at the end of their ropes would go on extended "holiday" or "retreat", but that can be expensive. For numerous reasons, the hospital stays that have largely replaced them are getting ever shorter and less able to fill the same decompression functions. An outpatient program close to out-of-state relatives might be the only remaining way to get away from the current environment and get some sort of therapy for more than just a couple of weeks.

Some medical options may remain, even among your past failed trials (a miserable side effect in the past may not seem so important when you're feeling THIS bad.) For all their faults, the SSRIs and the old-line antipsychotics are usually good at numbing emotional pain. There are also some "heroic" med combinations that you may not have tried. However, radical changes in the middle of a nosedive usually require a hospital stay in case the doctors push things along too fast.

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SO, I don't have any answers for you, but my instinct is to reach out for help. I think that if I were in as much pain as you appear to be, I would call my tdoc or pdoc and tell him or her that I'm at the end of my rope. Surely they would encourage you to be admitted for a few days, wouldn't they?

I'm not saying that the hospital will "cure" anything, but it might stop the free-fall. And it sounds like you need to be helped right now.

I hope you will call someone.

olga

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;)

Thank you. Talking about it and insight is good.

I was struck by the mention hospitals being unable to provide as much care as they need to to actually be able to help some of us. It is not very easy to get into a good hospital around here for "medication changes" only.

I realize that every situation is different and there are no easy answers.

In my case, trying many combinations of medications over the last several years has not increased my level of being able to function nor my quality of life except for in the Fall of last year when we added Lamictal. I improved a great deal but not to the point of being functional.

Why this is so, I have no idea. I don't know why I can't seem to function. I just know that I cannot, not won't, get to a level of wellness where I desperately need to be. My apathy has pushed most people away from me and yet I cannot will the apathy away.

I don't understand willpower any more. I WANT and am WILLING to get better but I am not CAPABLE of functioning. I am not CAPABLE (some days) of getting out of bed. I've been to the grocery store maybe five times in the last few years. Not because I don't WANT to go. It is because apparently I do not have enough POWER of that WILL.

Most times my mind CANNOT enjoy many things. My mind and body is still very ill even though I have come a long ways.

Most people cannot grasp this. Even some of my treatment team. That is one reason I worry about how to get the help I need.

Three Pdocs within the last six months have told me that they would not recommend changing any of my medications at this time because the Lamictal just started helping me in the Fall and it may not be good to rock the boat.

We tried going up on the Lamictal but it did not seem to help, only more side effects.

You'll remember a while back I was trying to find a psychiatric facility that would be comprehensive in evaluation of my illness, as well as the Hypothyroidism, vagal nerve stimulator, and medications. (the next thing I knew I was in a detox clinic)

Things have settled down since then. I think I was running on pure adrenaline. I've become acutely aware that I still need help. I'm just not sure how and if I will be able to get it.

I feel like my depression is worsening. I'm seeing a neuropsychiatrist on the 15th for a second (actually a fourth) opinion. She is HIGHLY regarded by her peers and I'm hoping that she can be of real help.

Olga, I WILL call someone today and take more action to seek the help I need. I think I'm going to be fine.

Thanks so much for listening. It means a lot.

My best,

Sunshine Outside

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Sunshine O, We seem to be in about the same boat. I don't know what to do either, but I want you to know you're not alone.

It seems that you're doing the right things. Taking the meds, seeing your docs, trying to keep some structure in your life. I don't know what happens when that's not enough.

What I'd really like to do is buy a small farm somewhere and put up 10 or 20 little cottages where all of my MI friends could come for respite care. We would each do what we could. Pull weeds, plant seeds, feed chickens, cook, harvest, whatever. I don't know if it would work. But I think there are a lot of us who just need an extended period away from the current shitstorm we call society.

That's what's really keeping me alive, a fantasy of having a place to rest and heal. I wish there was something I could do for you. I don't know what else to say.

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Greeny, that's a fantasy of mine, too. I read posts like SO's and I desperately want to pack her into a car and bring her up here to the country. I have no idea why that would help, but it makes me feel better to fantasize about having my very own Funny Farm.

I haven't gone through the years and years of med changes and frustration that you two have experienced, but I do empathize with the despair when nothing seems to work.

SO, I hope the appointment on the 15th is helpful. Do you have a local friend who can take you to the doctor that day? I'm just thinking that you might need someone knocking on your door to help you get out of bed and get ready for the appointment.

I hope you can keep a little bit of hope alive in your heart. There has to be an answer for you out there somewhere.

olga

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Greeny, that's a fantasy of mine, too. I read posts like SO's and I desperately want to pack her into a car and bring her up here to the country. I have no idea why that would help, but it makes me feel better to fantasize about having my very own Funny Farm.

I haven't gone through the years and years of med changes and frustration that you two have experienced, but I do empathize with the despair when nothing seems to work.

SO, I hope the appointment on the 15th is helpful. Do you have a local friend who can take you to the doctor that day? I'm just thinking that you might need someone knocking on your door to help you get out of bed and get ready for the appointment.

I hope you can keep a little bit of hope alive in your heart. There has to be an answer for you out there somewhere.

olga

oh SO i just typed out a whole bunch of what really amounted to nothing about an hour ago.... then my internet went down argh. all i could have said, olga already did so i'll just say "what olga said", again (i do that too much). please keep reaching out. i wish i could take you away, too.

- rita

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:)

I'm having deja vu everywhere. Greeny, it seems like I have responded to you but I don't think I did. I know I was at least thinking about it.

Maybe it was on the other thread that I mixed with this one. (unintentionally) I was trying to delete the first post because I wanted a different topic headline, I couldn't figure it out and ended up with the two topics.

Anyway, Greeny it is good to hear from you. I have followed you over time and guessed that we are around the same boat. It sucks.

I want to come to that fantasy place to minister and be ministered to. Gosh, that sounds so healing and comforting.

Big covered porches and lots of rocking chairs. Wind Chimes. Cool air. Comfortable beds and pillows. Wicker furniture and the most comfortable chairs imaginable. Green tea. Working in the sun and fresh vegetables and fruits to eat. Love, compassion, understanding, encouragement, support.

I read a short article recently where some sort of community with mental illness had people helping each other out. Like with meals and shopping on a larger scale. Hmmm. I wonder where that was.....

Olga, two of your best qualities are your strength and compassion. I think of several of other qualities but, now, anyway, your willingness to share those qualities with us helps us much more than you know.

I think that many of us share those same qualities, we just FEEL diminished sometimes as a result of these illnesses.

With your sharing it helps me and also reminds that I share those same qualities and encourages me to strive more and more to return to a place of well being.

Rita,

Good to hear from you. I read your post recently about your daughter and her struggles.

I was greatly impressed with how close and in tune you are with each other. It is obvious that you both respect each other a great deal.

I am happy when I see a parent taking their job seriously and giving the time, love, and direction to our children necessary to their well being.

I saw your post on the other same topic and I will respond to that. Thanks for being here.

Doing O.K., (just haven't gotten out of bed yet and have NO clean clothes to wear)

Sunshine Outside

P.S. I'll get it together eventually ;)

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I want to come to that fantasy place to minister and be ministered to. Gosh, that sounds so healing and comforting.

Big covered porches and lots of rocking chairs. Wind Chimes. Cool air. Comfortable beds and pillows. Wicker furniture and the most comfortable chairs imaginable. Green tea. Working in the sun and fresh vegetables and fruits to eat. Love, compassion, understanding, encouragement, support.

Yep. You almost nailed it. You forgot to add the cabana boys. ;)

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I want to come to that fantasy place to minister and be ministered to. Gosh, that sounds so healing and comforting.

Big covered porches and lots of rocking chairs. Wind Chimes. Cool air. Comfortable beds and pillows. Wicker furniture and the most comfortable chairs imaginable. Green tea. Working in the sun and fresh vegetables and fruits to eat. Love, compassion, understanding, encouragement, support.

Yep. You almost nailed it. You forgot to add the cabana boys. ;)

Well, there's no beach, so here in the country they are "yard boys." Raking, weeding, hauling mulch back and forth in a wheelbarrow.....and shirtless, of course. Sweat glistening on tanned muscles......he he he

Hey, it's my fantasy and I can be a dirty old woman if I want to!

olga

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