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Why don't doctors listen?


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Well i have posted on here before about my prev. meds. The last two years have been hell, probably cause of what i have said also. I have told some of my prev. doctors that i was tired of trying different meds for depression, I was looking for someone to prescribe lamictal, but very few were reluctant. Yet, i did and it didn't work anyways. But i just don't understand why some doctors suggest different meds yet don't follow through, or put you on meds, that you have tried and didn't like before and say no it will work. Am i too passive not enough assertive? I don't get it, i hear other people saying they have tried many different meds, but with me they say i am addicted to changing them. My last couple of doctors wouldn't give me any thing for anxiety or depression. I don't know. Sorry for ranting it just seems lately that everyone is on my case. ;)

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Well i have posted on here before about my prev. meds. The last two years have been hell, probably cause of what i have said also. I have told some of my prev. doctors that i was tired of trying different meds for depression, I was looking for someone to prescribe lamictal, but very few were reluctant.

So, for the past two years you've told them what you wanted to be treated for and prescribed but they keep failing to follow through. Dealing with your inferiors in education and clinical experience must be frustrating.

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Well i agree totally with the both of you, and i left my old doctor because i was tired of changing meds. And it is my fault for i had told some of my prev. doctors that i wanted to try something different. Alot of them won't put you on something for anxiety or depression because of the risk of mania, or addiction, so i did end up in the hospital and the dr. there put me back on celexa which didn't help my anxiety and when raised caused me to get manic. And i have been put on abilify more than once, which i have had bad results. I don't know. But what i was refering too is that when you first go in they suggest all these options then drop them. Maybe that is true what you said about after seeing them for awile but why suggest it in the first place? I mean my current pdoc said tht lithium is old and bad on your kidneys, scaring the crap out of me, then never mention it again. I don't know i am sorry if i am coming off sarcastic or stupid, its just some of them suggest differnt stuff then just forget about them, maybe cause too much change.

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I mean my current pdoc said tht lithium is old and bad on your kidneys, scaring the crap out of me, then never mention it again.
Just my opinion, mind, but that's, oh, how do you say... a bunch of bullshit (not you, him.) Unless you have significant renal disease, or completely uncontrolled other diseases that will chomp on your kidneys.

Otherwise, that's why you monitor for kidney function, that's why your psychiatrist doses as low as possible to get an effect, etc. Sometimes someone has to cowboy up and be the doctor, even if it takes extra time and effort.

And since when does "old" equate to "bad" in drug-land? Good grief. Yes, one certainly wouldn't want to use the drug with decades of literature and clinical experience supporting its use, much better to use something relatively untried.

OK, I have to stop now before I go off ranting in all directions.

Still, the idea of "external forces will fix me" is something you might want to examine in therapy or in moments of introspection.

Medications are a piece of the puzzle. They are just one piece, though. Think of the drugs as being like the outboard motor on a boat. You're still driving the boat.

The reason I mention the goals: hopelessness (and, cough, helplessness) are symptoms of depression. When making progress towards 'getting better', and while still depressed, it can seem like nothing is working - when there are actually some pretty significant observable changes. That's important for you to be able to see and track - 1) because it means you can see how you're responding to the drug, 2) because it gives you some evidence against hopelessness / helplessness, which is important for your treatment unto itself.

Null: you said what I meant to say re: "not liking." Thanks for the interpretation.

eta- fix typos

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I'd say of psych. meds and professionals (no matter how amazing the actual person) are frustrating by nature but we all know that that would be a major understatemetnt (maybe toally devasting would be more accurate ?). In a way we are sort of set up in that we have the most vital thing in our world (our minds, thoughts, feelings and personalities) and so when in some way we are thrown off balence of course we want control. As knowledgeable, experienced, and personable so many psychiatrists are I think I speak for at least 98% of when I say that we'd need be darnned (for lack of a better word) to give them our total trust.

When they have to power to change our perception and hense everything in our worlds with medicines it can be pretty scary enspecially when they aren't willing to listen to our viewpoints or take them into consideration. Yet in all this every professional has at least one advantage when dealing with our situations and that is that they are objective. While we can be remarkably in touch with ourselves and experiences (mental illness seems to do that to ya) we can never completely be an outside observer (well unless you have or believe in out-of-body experiences, or deamon possesion) so we are forever left with at least one blind spot.

Our psychs. can pick this up and act appropriatly to what they see and sometimes since we can't see what they see their decisions make no sense to us (...and sometimes they see things that aren't there or miss things....). To make things worse regardless of how accuratly the psych. can see what is going on they are always in a way guessing, as the god-forsaken chant we've all heard half a million times goes 'there's no magic pill' there are hundreds of magic pills all of which can do harm or good to anyone varying upon half a billion changing factors including time and doesage and no way to tell what will or wont work for any person.

Needless to say we have some right her to say yay or nay and give suggustions. As is best for us the psych. has the final decision but in my opinion it is not over assertive at all to let them know yours after all you are the expert. They may not do what you want but at least they've heard what you've said (and if they haven't it may help to switch psychs.). I think that about 99% (maybe I'm a little nieve) of psychs. really WANT the best but to get the best to their abilities they need to see as much of the picture as possible and it's our job to give it including our own ideas.

I've never heard of being 'addicted' to changing meds and not to cross any lines or in any way disrespect the words of your psych. but it sounds like a bit on any oxi-moron. We can get so tied up in wanting help that we aren't able to give help a chance but I wouldn't call that an addiction. It can above all else but gee that only makes sense you know?

I don't wish to push this on you and not at all to talk down hope (much the opposite) but I've come to look beyond meds for hope (I'm not saying anyone should stop taking meds) but it's a big picture. I still take mine but I don't think that they will ever get me where I'd wish to be, they probably will never totally rescue me from insomnia or allow me to focus as I once coculd as depressing and downright crual as those words are to me or work other such miracles and I simply refuse to stand her and wait from that to happen. There's more to life than meds and disorders and I've tried to reach beyond them making adjustments in my life when needed, 'perscribing' my own 'therapies' (listening to music, writing ect.) and liveing as best I can considering.

Best wishes and hearts.

~Jen

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hi,

*I think* i know what you mean. i may be way off, too.

one of my prior pdocs (i changed because i moved away) kept TALKING about lithium. for about a month he just talked about it. and he would say things like "i dont know if you are ready...." I felt he was philosophizing the pill instead of just prescribing it to me & see what happened. I was very open to his suggestions. and no, the move was not planned...neither of us knew i was going to be leaving his practice.

when i got settled at my new place, i got a new pdoc and i told the new one about these conversations with my prior pdoc. new pdoc said "well, lets try it!!" and he wrote me a rx that day.

i hope this helps you in that you are not the only one to have gone thru a similar situation. and if im completely off target - im sorry.

db

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Hi,, i am sorry i haven't been writing back. Well i have been on lithium for a about 4 years now. But i was having alot of side effects so a few doctors suggested changing it. But this new doctor just came off and was saying kinda aggressively that it is not good for kindneys and that more women have to be more careful of taking alot of motrin/basically cause thts what females do. But anyhow, yeah in the last year i say i had tried lamictal/lithium/seroquel combo. I tried the lamictal for depression/yet that didn't work just made me stupid. And that doctor wouldnt suggest anything other than the lamictal. Then i tried Welbutrin and that didn't agree with me. So now i am just on Lithium and Seroquel for Depression. After i switched doctors cause of Lamictal thing. This new doctor has upped my seroquel frm 200 mgs.. to 300 mgs.ER. And i just had a bad experience with it, and was really scared to have another day like that. I am not trying to down her or anything, but she just assumed that i am probably used to being on a whole set of mets. I don't know why the assume. And i have said before i had a doctor who wouldn't prescribe any medicine for anxiety because he didn't see why i was insecure because i was thin, and if i was waiting for something for it(the anxiety) that i would be waiting a long time. I mean that is not good practice. I think if something doesnt make us feel better, then i think we should have a choice of trying something else. Now this dr. wants me to lower seroquel and and start taking neuroton which a neuroligist prescribes. I just fear that if i lower the seroquel tht i might get depressed again, even though i didn't like it the first time, but kept with it because it is the only thing keeping me kinda saine, and not totally depressed. Sorry for rambling on.

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But this new doctor just came off and was saying kinda aggressively that it is not good for kindneys and that more women have to be more careful of taking alot of motrin/basically cause thts what females do.
Well, lithium and "a lot of Motrin" are not a great combination for kidneys. But, again, it depends on a lot of things - and that's why you monitor your lithium level. One of the main concerns with ibuprofen and lithium is that the ibuprofen will raise lithium levels - so if your level is very low to begin with, that might be less of a problem.

I'm not sure what the "that's what females do" thing is about. Do you mean menstrual cramps? There are other options, actually.

Then i tried Welbutrin and that didn't agree with me.
Did it help your depression?

By "didn't agree with," do you mean it worked but had side effects, or made you psychotic and loopy as hell, or ???

This new doctor has upped my seroquel frm 200 mgs.. to 300 mgs.ER. And i just had a bad experience with it, and was really scared to have another day like that. I am not trying to down her or anything, but she just assumed that i am probably used to being on a whole set of mets. I don't know why the assume.
Maybe you could go talk to her about it. Maybe it's as simple as using 300 mg, and not 300 mg ER, or maybe there's something else. But when I read this, it seems like maybe you are the one assuming things here as far as her motives and reasons and willingness to work with you.

I think if something doesnt make us feel better, then i think we should have a choice of trying something else.
Yes and no. That sounds mean. But sometimes there isn't an appropriate treatment, sometimes "feeling better" and "getting better" are not the same thing, and sometimes there isn't a choice.

However, you should always have the option of describing your desires and concerns, and to find out why that doctor doesn't want to change drugs. Sometimes it might be a good reason - and sometimes it might be a bad one. You don't have to agree with it, even. You just should be able to engage in the treatment decisions, and to seek care from someone else if you think the reasons are irrational.

Now this dr. wants me to lower seroquel and and start taking neuroton which a neuroligist prescribes. I just fear that if i lower the seroquel tht i might get depressed again, even though i didn't like it the first time, but kept with it because it is the only thing keeping me kinda saine, and not totally depressed.
I think you put that really well, Diamondgirl. Did you say it to her just like that?

If it's hard to do that in a live visit, could you write it out and take it in with you?

Not clear on why you have to jump ship to a neurologist for the Neurontin...

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Yeah, the Welbtrun made me loopy, and gave me a little bit of phychosis. My previos dr. had sent me to a neuroligist because i had a history of getting migraines, and i was having alot of derealization episodes on the welbtrin so she thought i might have been having absent seizures. My current pdoc didn't want the responsibility of prescribing the neurotin. Even though i gave the script to the pharmacy, i needed a PA and the neurologist wasn't around for like a week but no one would do the PA. And yeah i think i am going to have to call my Pdoc about the seroquel. And yes she did mean with cramps, but she also said that BP2 people are alot more moody. I had never heard tht one before, they always told me i was BP1. But whatever, I am just tired of this, i mean i know that it ain't all meds. I also have to work on therapy and in on my personal life/issues. Buts thanks to everyone that wrote in. I know these drs. are here to help but they also have to listen a little more too.

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