The 2008 US VP picks thread

[LikeMinded]

[EDIT: The poll question has changed. Unfortunately, it seems to not let anybody vote more than once in any given poll, and to have a new poll, I'd need a new topic. I am more confused than any of y'all are.]

Woke up this morning and the first thing I did was check Cnn.com to find out Obama's VP pick was Joe Biden (D-DE). Yeah, I was a bit upset. What would have swung me spot onto his party's vote would have been his #2/3 pick, Evan "Bayhpartisan" Bayh.

For those not familiar with the funny American voting system, during presidential elections, we run on an "electoral college" system whereby each state is assigned X number of electoral college votes based on its share of population relative to the whole country. California, the largest state, has 55 electoral votes, midsize states (such as Indiana, home to me as well as Bayh) have 10-15, and the smallest (like Biden's state, Delaware) currently have 3. There are something like 538 total electoral votes. The candidate who takes at at least the majority (IIRC) wins.

So the catch? The president doesn't win by popular votes, he wins by the number of electoral votes, making it important for the candidate to win not just voters, but also entire states. To my knowledge, once a state gains a definite majority of the vote at polls' closing, all of that state's electoral votes go to the same candidate (even if the state's final margin was 52/48). The exceptions (per Wikipedia) appear to be Nebraska and Maine, which split their votes in some directions or other based on popular votes within these respective states.

All this makes candidates likely to focus on "swing" states, ones that harbor a close to 50/50 chance of each party. Moderate and larger swing states (>10 electoral votes) are particularly focused on. Very large swing states, such as Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida, tend to be main foci of candidates (and voters!!!).

So why does Bayh seem important to me? Indiana is not a "swing" state. It hasn't voted democrat for the presidency since 1964. Its 10-12 electoral votes have always gone to the Republicans since. The state's current electoral count, 11, is not insignificant. Also, most Hoosiers pretty much get on their knees and/or bow at the mere mention of "Bayh", his whole family being moderate-Democrat 3-generation dynasty of Indiana politicians. In general, Indiana loves Indiana Democrats (the governorship was in the hands of that party from 1992-2004, 2 terms of which were Evan Bayh). He himself is a "fiscally responsible" Democrat, i.e., he knows how to weasel money out of the most bizarre places while making the budget healthier in more popular areas. (We Hoosiers aren't terribly intelligent, so that's good enough for us.)

(As of note, yes, the electoral college can also screw up the entire vote, giving the presidency to someone who didn't even gain the popular vote, e.g. W in 2004.)

Al Gore, presidential hopeful in '00, and John Edwards, VP hopeful in '04 with John Kerry, are both well-respected in their states, but to my knowledge, are not bowed down to. As in not re-elected to state and national positions multiple times by landslides. They both lost their states during their respective elections. The way this pundit sees it, Bayh on a VP ticket would not just assist in swinging the conventional "swing" states, but also might pull Indiana's typical 63/35 Republican/Democrat margin towards and perhaps past the 50/50 mark. Most importantly, every Hoosier's vote would count. Personally for me, my vote would count, and although I don't hate Republican candidate John McPlain (alt: McInsane) that much, seeing Obamination/Bayhpartisan in the oval office would be a refreshing deal, and I'd be happy that my vote counted, if in fact the Dems did swing Indiana. For now, it's just going to land in a pile of write-ins (the Libertarian party, as of the '04 ballot, was not available in Indiana, which is kind of odd given how they often sit on county councils with the platform of backing farmers against suburban takeover). (Not that I'd vote Libertarian with the party's current [mis]standing of legalizing marijuana being #1 on their agenda, and their utter lack of utlitarianism when it comes to healthcare, a problem shared with McInsane.)

I guess in the end, my opinion's a bit selfish, as I want my vote for once to count (the first presidential election I was eligible to vote in, 2004, I'd thrown out my vote in pretty much, as I was in California, whose 55 votes are almost guaranteed to get tossed out to the Democrats).

[EDIT: The following is moot.]

I also wonder whom McPlain is going to pick as running mate... not sure if it'll matter, as he himself has all the executive bases covered, so maybe he should just go for picking based on charm factor (something Obamination already has). I'd find it amusing if he picked Sarah "GILF" Palin (44 year old governor of Alaska, their youngest and only female governor, who also has an 80+ percent approval rating there).

[crazynotstupid]

Dumb and Dumber 3: Race to the Bottom '08.

Two gaffe prone idiots that don't know what they're talking about--a dream team! Yay!

[december_brigette]

hi all:

herrfous: since its almost 3 am and several hours of my life just disappeared....im assuming "GILF" means "governor i'd like to fuck." and if not...well...my wacky insomniac brain...is...um...

interestingly - the "ad" that was on your thread was for mccain. and he was posing with joe liberman - senator from CT. if mccain chooses liberman that might prove to be very "interesting." for lack of better words.

db

[SUEzie]

What happened to Hillary? Was she just "too dangerous" a choice for Obama? She's the senator from NY - that's a big state, isn't it, as far as electoral votes?

I still have not decided who I am voting for (I know, I better make up my mind soon, but I am still undecided.)

I like Obama, but am afraid he will end up being like Jimmy Carter.

Part of me thinks McCain is sufferring from as yet undiagnosed PTSD that could erupt, once he's in office (all we need is another Bush, reacting to threats real and unreal...no offense to those w/PTSD - at all).

Still, I could "get on board" w/Leiberman (sp?) as his running mate - wonder if that will happen...?

Methinks this is going to be one hell of a close race.

- Susan

[Rabbit37]

I voted, but you didn't give me the choice I wanted! Hillary, of course. I think it would have been a wise move. I wonder if there was talk between them, and she said no. She said from the beginning that she didn't want to be no. 2, in not so many words. If we can keep a muzzle on Biden, it might not be too bad. A neighbor's wife worked closely with him for years on domestic violence, she absolutely adores him.

I think if McCain chooses Lieberman, it'll level the playing field. Susan, the idea of PTSD never occurred to me. Wow. That's a real possibility. Scary.

[rowen]

OT, but I'm just voting for a third party. Yeah, I know my guy has no chance of winning. But it's the principle of the thing, dammit.

[Velvet Elvis]

Biden's fine with me. I'd have preferred Dodd but he'll work well as an attack dog.

Hillary's high negatives among independent voters most likely ruled her out. Since there's no chance of NY swinging red, it's EVs aren't really in play.

I'm just glad we didn't get Replublican-light DLC-stooge Bayh.

[SUEzie]

I would have voted for Dodd for President, if he'd ever been able to gather enough momentum to get on the ticket. I liked him the best of all the Dem candidates (although Obama is a close second. And of course, Hillary)

- Susan

[Artemisia]

Part of me thinks McCain is sufferring from as yet undiagnosed PTSD that could erupt, once he's in office (all we need is another Bush, reacting to threats real and unreal...no offense to those w/PTSD - at all).

McCain was a hot-head while at the Naval Academy, but he might've mellowed out by now. The worst accusation I've heard of him is that he doesn't protest when people make him out to be the POW of Vietnam, even though he was a POW (and tortured) for much less time than many other soldiers/sailors/whoever.

[link=http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html"'>http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html" target="_blank]http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html[/link]

There's of course also the fact that he was one of the politicians who accepted bribes in the Keating Five thing, but I don't remember any details.

[SUEzie]

I'm leaning more toward Obama, and I think he'll probably win; but I do think it will be a close race.

I am really, really, really fed up with the Republicans. This entire war has fed more money into the Halliburton corporation (and still is doing so) than anyone should ever have to contemplate. I think current VP Dick Cheny is a Sociopath, who ought to be strung by his toes and shot (don't get me started).

There is absolutely no excuse for the financial and political mess this country is in right now. I've had it up to my eyeballs w/the entire party (I may not be altogether "fair", but it's truly how I feel at this point.)

That is why I am very likely voting Dem.

- Susan

[tiredoftherapy21]

I would rather vote obama though biden isnt my fav. then ever vote for McCain, I cant explain it but that man pisses me off more than obama would. and I am not much for republicans never have been. dont like men to tell me what I can and cant do with my body.

[liveoak]

Based on her actions, Hillary never wanted the VP. She wants to be nominated for Pres. at the convention. She has been VERY divisive, and if she had just ceded the race to Obama when he won the EV, we would have had the Dream Team of Obama and Hillary. But, she had to muck it all up. She gave Obama no choice but to NOT ask her to be VP.

[LikeMinded]

Ah, good to hear that I'm not the only one who cares about this matter (enough to post on here, at least)...

db--

Yeah, that's what I meant by "GILF". CBS had at one point a particularly flattering photo of her on their VP pick speculation page, though her official photos by the state of Alaska seem a bit scary. If anything, I have to give her credit since she doesn't exactly look like she's had five (!) children. And not to mention, she manages to govern a state at the same time.

pleasemakeitstop and Rabbit--

I probably should have included Billary as a choice on the poll, though I felt she was too far and gone, having estranged her former rival in the process of the primaries. McInsane/Joe Indecisivemann would make an interesting combo ticket. Furthermore, Bidet will need to learn to have a nice warm glass of STFU once in a while so that he doesn't make a (further) ass out of his running mate.

VE--

I actually think you're right in disparaging Bayhpartisan (for essentially being a Republican tool). Though, the worst part is that he tried sucking up to Billary and the left-wing dems, possibly in a VP bid (maybe that's what broke the Obamination deal). Now, his sucking up to the left-wing dems, if you ask me, makes him a truly "Bayhpartisan" tool. That contrasts to his earlier career and it's a bit distressing to see how he's been acting the past 2 years. That all said, I felt he was the best pick not mainly due to the home state effect, but more that he can swing over the swing states as well as the worshipment of Indiana's 11 electoral votes. Namely due to his being a Republican's tool.

Artemisia--

Didn't know that McCain had such temper issues as well. Pretty much we're on the road to having four presidential/VP candidates who are perfectly willing to make major asses out of themselves regularly on live television (esp. if McInsane picks Liebermann). Honestly, Election '08 will probably be the most entertaining one I've witnessed thus far.

I'll post more commentary as this all progresses and/or I get out of my apathy pit, but that's all from me for now.

[Artemisia]

Honestly, Election '08 will probably be the most entertaining one I've witnessed thus far.

Entertaining? I don't know. I don't think it'll be anywhere as interesting as Indecision 2000--which was fascinating although in a scary way.

I don't expect miracles, but perhaps the country will change the course a little now (though of course we won't be able to get Iraq back to its pre-war state or anything close to that ).

[crazynotstupid]

There is absolutely no excuse for the financial and political mess this country is in right now. I've had it up to my eyeballs w/the entire party (I may not be altogether "fair", but it's truly how I feel at this point.)

When talking "financial messes" just remember the party that's been in power in both houses...not the Republicans, hint hint.

And note that Hillary was never even vetted by Obama--e.g., she was never even considered for veep. And BOY are her suppoerters mad--oh, good times!

Finally, McCain and ptsd--is there no low to which a dem will not stoop? Shame!

[december_brigette]

Hi all:

I love hillary. Im in the group of women dems who really wanted hillary and are now seriously considering mccain.

as for the hilariousness of this upcoming election. the local news was interviewing people on the street and this lady said "I hope we elect a new president."

DUH!!! we HAVE TO elect a new president - those are the rules. I laugh every time i think of it. which is good because my MI is currently in "hell" mode.

db

[FreedomSeeker]

We're screwed no matter who wins.

[Velvet Elvis]

I love hillary. Im in the group of women dems who really wanted hillary and are now seriously considering mccain.

So what's your take on your uterus? Are you cool to let some dude decide if it's yours or not?

How about 100 years of war in Iraq even after Bush has decided we should pull out by 2011?

I mean for fuck's sake, vote for Nader or McKinny if you must but there's no excuse for voting for McCain if you're not a Republican.

[FreedomSeeker]

Yeah, I agree with VE...I don't get voting for McCain if you were a Hillary supporter.

[december_brigette]

HEY!!!

Im too tired to go into the politics but im not too tired to note i said "considering."

the word "considering" and the word "vote" have to different meanings. I never said who i was voting for. I said "considering."

(im in hell and this really pisses me off...people putting words in my mouth.)

per dictionary.com:

consider: to think carefully about, esp. in order to make a decision; contemplate; reflect on.

vote: 1. A formal expression of opinion or choice, either positive or negative, made by an individual or body of individuals. 2. the means by which such expression is made, as a ballot, ticket, etc.

im already in hell, so fuck me whatever. I SAID "CONSIDERING."

ms asshole of the year,

db

[SUEzie]

CrazyNotStupid: With all due respect - A Republican President began this war, and his VP encouraged it. Yeah, Congress voted on it, but this gem of an idea started w/the Bush cabinet. I really, really dislike Cheney, and just look at Carl Rove (thank God he's gone) - don't get me started, or you will get a headache -

The Bush administration's disastrous initial, non-response to Hurricane Katrina (and FEMAs slow, plodding, bungled response to it still) are forever imbedded in my memory.

And God only knows what will happen as a result of Bush's pick for the Supreme Court (I also remember a scandal there, involving Bush's administration.)

I think Bush, Cheney, several other Republican House and Senate members, and some on Bush's admin staff, are corrupt as hell. Some of them are making lots of $ off this war. Dick Cheney was on the board of Halliburtion Corp when this war began, and afterward for quite awhile (and still has tons of its stock) - a company which is still doing Iraq "re-construction" and supplying catering equipment, food and supplies to the coalition troops which are being killed off daily, as we speak. Hard for me to believe he's not in prison (maybe someday.)

Bush might not be totally corrupt (hard for me to tell) but I have one comment: When you are Prez, the buck stops with you. If you know you are not a genius, at least hire an intelligent, competent staff. Did he do this? Doesn't seem that way (except possibly for Condi Rice, IMO). Too early to tell re: The new Treasury Secretary. Any of the original cabinet members, who maybe were partly competent, have now scattered off. They don't want their own reputations tainted-by-association w/Bush. Who can blame them?

Do I feel "sorry for them, or for Bush?" Hell, no. They will probably makes millions selling their memoirs, and most have big, fat pensions, or are otherwise wealthy.

Not so, the kids dying in Iraq, nor the war veterans. Or for the U.S. citizens, who will live with the inflationary economic consequences of funding this war, for many months, and maybe years, to come.

This country is trillions (not billions) in debt. It will takes years (maybe decades) to get out of debt. We are still at war, and there are still billions of voter $ feeding the (initially very likely un-necessary) war machine. It's a mess we'll now need to dig ourselves out of for years and years on end - and I am really, really pissed. Not to mention the lives lost, and the U.S. geo-political image gone to hell. Plus the economic inflation.

I am a registered Independent, neither Republican, nor Dem, and I am fed up.

I think many of the executive decisions by the Bush administration these past 7 years, rise above incompetence, and up into the realm of corruption. I think they needed to be impeached-and-or fired (but won't be, due to an apathetic public, and some scaredey-cat Dems, including Pelosi.) I don't think it's funny, and I find it infuriating. The only one that was obviously "let go" was Rumsfeld (and I thought it was about time, when it happened.)

Could this have just as easily happened under a Dem administration? Dunno. Who cares? It's still a mess. It happened under Bush, and his Republican cabinet. I've seen kind of _rap before, from both Republicans and Democrats, just never this bad.

Looking back on it, Watergate was not much, not compared to all of this.

*Obama seems to have a social conscience that really, really appeals to me, at this point.

And IMO, Obama isn't "dumb". He's got a law degree from Harvard, and based on hearing him speak, there is no doubt in my mind he can run circles around Bush (and probably McCain, although IMO, McCain is very bright.)

BTW - this morning, as I was reading my TIME magazine, I saw a pic of George Bush, proudly holding up the American flag, at the Olympics in Beijing, China. Except - he was holding it back-wards (yeah, somebody caught this on film).

Is it too much to ask, to have a President who knows how to pronounce the word nuclear (Nu-Klee-ar NOT nu-Q-lar)? Who knows which countries now comprise the former Soviet Republic? Who can make a speech in complete paragraphs, sans a tele-prompter?

And this country's current mess happened under George Bush's administration.

IMO, there should be some consequences for this mess (prison, and-or impeachment-job loss.)

This is much worse, IMO, than some former Prez adulterating himself with a really young White House intern. Back then, we had a budget surplus, and no war, and also: I couldn't care less what people do with their sex lives.

As for McCain - Haven't made up my mind. Probably not, due to fear not of McCain, (although I question why he cannot seem to go even one week, without mentioning some "crisis" in some part of the globe, that seemingly "requires U.S. military intervention" (as in Georgia, near Russia, last week) - his reactions to global situations like this make me seriously hesitate to vote for him (although there are parts of his persona and ideas that I do like.) Rather -

I fear if McCain is elected, then it's very likely to be more of the same (just maybe on a smaller scale than w/Bush) from another Republican cabinet.

I will watch the TV debates, after the conventions. I am very curious to see what these candidates have to say for themselves, that close to the election.

It may be a generalization, but for now - it's a generalization I can live with re:These past 7 years have really quashed my faith in most Republicans - although I usually do tend to vote more for the person, more than for the party.

Thanks for listening to me rant -

- Susan

[graduation day]

Well, what would be wrong with having Biden for vice president?

I thought the reason for choosing him was his experience with foreign policy. From where I stand (Europe), the US could really use a more diplomatic, less aggressive vice-president (and president for that matter) in the international community. One who actually wants to cooperate with other nations instead of just running them over with a tank.

But then again, I'm not sure how well-rounded Biden's diplomatic skills really are...!

[SUEzie]

I am fine with Biden. I guess I just expected Hillary (but Biden is fine with me.) I think one reason Bayh might not have been chosen, is because he perhaps is less familiar to some parts of the public, and also maybe Biden and Obama are a better ideological match (plus Biden's foreign policy experience, which Obama needs.)

Biden may have a big mouth, and love to talk, but he's very experienced in foreign policy, and he also has some brains, and what could be viewed (depending on your taste) as "charm", IMO. He's managed to get along okay w/Republicans on the foreign policy committees he's either been head of, or a member of, for years now.

After almost 8 years of what I consider to be a very bungling Republican administration, I can't say I'd be unhappy to see both Obama and Biden elected.

- Susan

[scatty]

How do I say this tactfully without sounding racist? I don't think Obama can win. That's not to say I wouldn't vote for him if he was the best choice to lead this country. I personally don't think he is (my opinion.) Also my opinion is that many americans will vote against him simply because of his race. I know it's not right, it's not fair, etc but I think the same prejudices would keep people from voting Hillary. Please don't throw rocks at me! I think McCain wins by default, that is just how I think this election will turn out.

[crazynotstupid]

How about 100 years of war in Iraq even after Bush has decided we should pull out by 2011?

Don't tell me you fell for that line--unless, that is, we're still "at war" in Germany and South Korea...

[crazynotstupid]

And IMO, Obama isn't "dumb". He's got a law degree from Harvard, and based on hearing him speak, there is no doubt in my mind he can run circles around Bush (and probably McCain, although IMO, McCain is very bright.)

...

Is it too much to ask, to have a President who knows how to pronounce the word nuclear (Nu-Klee-ar NOT nu-Q-lar)? Who knows which countries now comprise the former Soviet Republic? Who can make a speech in complete paragraphs, sans a tele-prompter?

[/i

There used to be a thing about Bushisms, about how W would muck up when speaking. I present...

Obamaisms

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MWZjY...TUyN2FkNmMzYTc=

Last May, he claimed that tornadoes in Kansas killed a whopping 10,000 people:

[SUEzie]

Scatty: I think he will win (but I think it will be a very, very close race. No offense intended. Vote your conscience, and for who you want to see in office, of course.)

CNS: Well Okay (cute.) Maybe Obama is exhausted. He's been "on the road" for months, by now. Also: He has time to learn this stuff, if he doesn't already know it - he's got the basic equipment, I believe (like a brain.)

What is Bush's excuse? What's he doing these days? - certainly not ending the war. Bush has had 7 years (not a few months) to prove he has some brains and good intentions, and can be competent. That's a loong time (and IMO he's very much failed to do it. And I really gave him a chance, too.)

IMO, Obama has more of an "analytically-based" style of speaking. Why? Maybe because he's got a brain.

Due to years of being exposed to media "sound-bites", many people seem to think - that if you don't get your complete idea out of your mouth in one sentence, and take a whole paragraph (!) (or longer) to truly complete a thought, that it means you don't have much that's worthwhile to say. How unfortunate.

I happen to disagree. I've listened to him, despite the apparent "gaffes" and I admire a lot of what he seems to be about.

CNS, IF "Obama-isms" are getting "poo-poohed" by the press, IMO, it only goes to show you that:

Many Americans are REALLY fed up w/Bush (as well they should be at this point), and maybe with the entire Republican party.

My sister thinks that even if Obama is elected, he will soon be assassinated by some crazed Yahoo who dislikes blacks (like a KKK member, or something similar.)

BUT - Obama isn't "black" - he is bi-racial. This is NOT (gentically speaking) the same as being black (to me). Even if:

1) Some black people want to think it is - and even if: 2) Some white people want to think so.

Unfortunately, I tend to think this assassination idea is not entirely out of the realm of possibility. If such an horrific event should come to pass, I also think Biden could actually run the country.

I will probably vote for Obama. At this point, if nothing else, it would be a matter of stating my disgust with these past 7 years, and the entire Bush administration, and much of the Republican party (plus, I tend to like Obama a lil' better.)

Dunno for certain though - am still (really) "thinking it all over".

I know McCain has experience, and yes, that does count for something, IMO but - I really do wonder why McCain seems to see a necessity for "U.S. military intervention" in several places around the world, that, IMO, could just as well be left alone (for now, if not forever).

I do think our nation's self-defense is one part of a President's job, BUT- have a question for Mr. McCain:

Where's the money for this "military intervention", on the part of the U.S., coming from?

Not from my pocket (not if I can help prevent it.)

- Susan

[Tenebrae]

i haven't liked one single candidate throughout this whole mess.

of course obama wouldn't choose hillary, you think he wants to share the spotlight with anyone?

so, here comes in biden on the spot ... mr milquetoast

a silent appeal to the unbdecided middle of the road white vote

conservative democrats who weren't quite sure about this "diversity" candidate with the funny name

the whole thing is a farce

i think this may be the first time i don't even bother to vote

all the candidates suck ass

[SUEzie]

Please vote! OMG - how can you forget what happened in 2004 - and the very slim margin by which Bush was (supposedly) elected?

If you are pissed off about the last 7 years, IMO you owe it to yourself to "register your disgust" by voting!

Regardless of your opinion of the currrent candidates - not voting is "disempowering" for a person, IMO.

(on the other hand, I can see it from your POV - maybe you think not voting is making a statement. I think the opposite. But, whatever.)

- Susan

[Artemisia]

of course obama wouldn't choose hillary, you think he wants to share the spotlight with anyone?

To be fair, I don't think it's about sharing the spotlight. Obama and Clinton have slung so much mud at each other before the primaries that it'd now look really weird if these apparent enemies just paired up so quickly.

[lysergia]

BUT - Obama isn't "black" - he is bi-racial. This is NOT (gentically speaking) the same as being black (to me). Even if:

1) Some black people want to think it is - and even if: 2) Some white people want to think so.

genetically speaking, you're right.

practically speaking, nuh uh.

put his face on a poster: all everyone will see is his blackness. period. nobody gives a rat's ass if one of your parents is white, as long as you look black that's what you are - you're a representative of all the preconceived ideas that come with that designation.

not saying this is right. saying this is the way it is. it's the most common reaction of both white and black people all over north america (i can't speak for europeans here, although i did take part in a british study of biracial people from places with a large black population... believe it or not my little inkblot on the east coast has the first and largest black settlement in north america!). but if obama's skin were white, and he was still biracial, this would be a non-issue. people would gloss over that little bit of information as long as he LOOKED white... it might make him a little bit more appealing to those that feel blacks have been shut out of politics, but in the end, his blackness would not impact the public's view like it does now.

so in the end nobody cares that he has a white parent - people get all surreal about that. i can't say it's completely universal, but most people i know have a hard time calling anyone at all bi-racial. you're either black or white. you might get a qualifier into the conversation somehow, like that not all your predecessors were the same colour as you, but it will just be a neat little "factoid" and nothing more. unless you are KKK or something else ridiculous - then being biracial is even worse than being any solid colour at all and therefore you must be destroyed.

of course i'm speaking with extreme prejudice and 38 years of experience as a biracial person. my father is black but my skin glows white in the dark, like my mother's. nobody gives a shit that my dad is a black man - all they see is what's in front of them, a white woman. the only thing that changes when people find out i'm biracial is that i don't get to hear the nigger jokes white people tell. cause i hear it all from people who think i'm a white christian sane middle-aged lady.

i'm a stinkin hippie and if i were american i'd be voting for obama (i would not have voted for hillary). thank god i don't have to vote with y'all. i do not envy anyone who has to wade their way through that much misinformation and theatre on all sides in order to decide who should be president. not saying we're all about honesty in politics up here in canada - ha! but it's hella less complicated for us. race would be an issue here too but.... not the same way, not with the same intensity. canadians are racist as hell too. but we also have this pride thing happening about how the international community views us as a nation... it almost trumps ethnicity and gender (almost. we're getting there). kinda like we were proud to say we had a female prime minister.... we didn't keep her, but see? we aren't sexist! having a non-white prime minister would be like a trophy in some ways, because canadians like to show off that stuff. 'cause we're just that "evolved" .

thank you for the opportunity to write and complain about something that has nothing to do with me.... and i'm serious!

politics gets my blood boiling way too fast though, so i may have to sit on my hands for most of this conversation. i'm just a 'lil sensitive to issues of race, gender, sexual orientation, poverty, military involvement, socialized institutions, immigration... ah hell everything....

[SUEzie]

Lysergia: If it's any consolation, I would never, ever EVER tell a "nigger joke" - not that one would apply to you, if I did - which I'd never do.) One time, when my little sister was in 2nd grade, or something, she came home and told one she'd heard from some other kid at school, to my mother. I forget what the joke was - but it had the word "nigger" in it.

My mother slapped her so hard, I thought her head would fall off (she was too little to really understand what she'd said. Not saying it's right she got slapped that hard, but - you get my point.)

No "nigger jokes" in our house. Telling jokes like that (around anyone) - is wrong, cruel, crass and oh yes- stupid, too.

Hope this doesn't sound silly (or patronizing. It isn't meant to be) - Most men I know (women, too) think Halle Berry rocks, and is lovely - and when they say it, they're not commenting on her bi-racialness at all (not when I've heard many of their comments.) If they do -"She's really a beautiful black gal",etc. -I think it sounds stupid. Why can't she just be considered a beautiful woman, period?

We were NOT raised that way (and this was in the 1960s. I am from the mid-west, in the U.S., btw) Dysfunctional as they may have been from many other perspectives, my parents raised us w/some semblance of social justice and equality for people of all races (and "in-between" races.)

I just am dumb-founded that - Americans who are _itching (rightfully so) that we are even in this war to begin with, (and will be paying for it, for decades to come) are willing to entertain a candidate (McCain) who keeps focussing on more "U.S. military intervention" (possibly) around the globe.

I understand the U.S. need to have some focus on national security (especially after 9/11) - but - my main question for McCain is: Who's going to pay for it?

Apparently, former U.S. President Bill Clinton is disappointed that he was asked to make a speech on "national security" at the Democratic convention (which is now ocurring in Denver, CO.)

He'd wanted to speak about the economy, because - he thinks that U.S. citizens are concerned about things like: Inflation (due to war costs, and other factors), and I think maybe he's right about that.

Maybe Obama should be focussing on the old campaign slogan: "It's the economy, stupid."

Because I don't really think McCain is doing this very well (so far.)

IMO, it's going to be a very close race.

- Susan

[LikeMinded]

I also wonder whom McPlain is going to pick as running mate... not sure if it'll matter, as he himself has all the executive bases covered, so maybe he should just go for picking based on charm factor (something Obamination already has). I'd find it amusing if he picked Sarah "GILF" Palin (44 year old governor of Alaska, their youngest and only female governor, who also has an 80+ percent approval rating there).

Honest to God, I thought I was joking and/or being sarcastic when I made that statement.

[reddog]

buy a lottery ticket, Fous.

i can't believe how obviously McCain is pandering.

[Ophelia]

i can't believe how obviously McCain is pandering.

he should really watch what he says and does now....

I mean, one of McCain's top objections to Obama is his supposed lack of experience... uhhh, excuse me? Dude, your choice for VP is a governor with barely 2 years experience. You aren't hypocritical at all, man...

[Silver]

This was the nicest thing that McCain could possibly have done for the Democratic party.

Every Dem I know is just beaming from ear to ear today. Big cheesy grins of happiness.

[Velvet Elvis]

I also wonder whom McPlain is going to pick as running mate... not sure if it'll matter, as he himself has all the executive bases covered, so maybe he should just go for picking based on charm factor (something Obamination already has). I'd find it amusing if he picked Sarah "GILF" Palin (44 year old governor of Alaska, their youngest and only female governor, who also has an 80+ percent approval rating there).

Honest to God, I thought I was joking and/or being sarcastic when I made that statement.

http://www.vpilf.com/

I love the internet.

[Ophelia]

i <3 someecards.com

[SUEzie]

Does McCain really believe that he's gonna get all of the voters who were intending to vote for Hillary, by choosing a VP candidate that adamantly opposes abortion rights? (even in cases of rape or incest?!)

Hmmm...interesting move. It makes me question his judgment, because personally, I think Leiberman would have been a much more viable choice. I think McCain just lost more voters than he gained (but we'll see how it works out for him in the end, I guess.)

- Susan

[december_brigette]

Hi, specifically to herrfous:

when i heard it was sarah palin - i immediately thought of you.

and you are right - she is one GILF. I'd do her anyday!!!

nothing like boinking someone with power - (albeit just governor for now).

db

[Chockblock]

Big choices this year.....pick Obama and go Socialist or pick McCain and Gov Sweetness to maintain status.

Watching that video of McCain unassing his burning plane, makes me kinda like the guy.

I'm waiting for nasty people eating Asian plague to finish us off.

762

[LikeMinded]

As a random insertion into this nascent flamewar, I would like to point out that I'm rather upset that McCain does not wish to have direct verbal dialogue with leaders of hostile foreign nations (e.g., Iran).

Honestly, I would look forward to the day that Mrs. Straightforward Sarah Palin travels to Iran and informs President Ahmedinijihad that he, in fact, is a dumbfuck whackjob numbskull. When the Ayatollah has to apologize for his comments, you KNOW something is Very Wrong with the fellow.

Should the dems win the election, I wouldn't mind Joe Biden doing the same, as well.

[SUEzie]

Whoah, is he a piece of work or what? If I met him on the street, I'd either:

1) Run the opposit direction

2) Bop him on the head and maybe slap him

3) Ask him why there are "no homosexuals in his country"

4) Ask him who the _ell he thinks he is -

Guess I am not a fan, either.

I wish you well,

Susan

[crazynotstupid]

Nice, y'all just following the Democrat talking points--nasty and sexist.

This is gonna be a fun election year. Just sad I won't be able to watch the results trickle in.

[SUEzie]

CNS: Where are you going to be? Why can't you watch the results trickle in?

I am not sexist. I am watching both party's conventions and the Presidential debates with an open mind.

In my last post, I was referring to the President of Iran, not you - if you thought I was referring to you, I wasn't. Anyway -

I wish you well,

- Susan

[crazynotstupid]

CNS: Where are you going to be? Why can't you watch the results trickle in?

I take a real interest in elections--I'm an election judge. From before the polls open (6 a.m.) till the votes are counted (my precinct is small, so about 9 p.m.). And since I'm on Mountain time, it'll likely be decided when I get home--depending on how hot and close it is.

Note that I only get paid minimum wage to be a judge--it's more a civic duty than anything else. My county is running about 100 judges short this year. Fuck drumming up the vote, get your ass out and count it--that's the important part of the election!

[FreedomSeeker]

There's a plague causing Asians to eat people? If I avoid Asians, I'm a racist. If I socialize with them, I'm lunch!

December, I know what "considering" means, but the fact that you would consider switching parties because Obama didn't pick Hillary is illogical to me.

If we get McCain, we get someone who votes in line with Bush.

If we get Palin, we get a vice president who hunts. (Remember what happened with Cheney!!!)

Seems a bit repetitious, don't you think?

McCain compared Obama to Brittney Spears. If Democrat is the Brittney Spears party, then Republican must be the Jamie Lynn Spears party! (Ok, I stole those jokes from The View [i think that's where I got the Cheney-Palin comparison] and Jay Leno [brittney-Jamie Lynn], but it's funny!!!)

[SUEzie]

CNS: I think it's great you are an election judge. Esp. when it pays so little - it's a neat thing to do, IMO.

- Susan

[Stickler]

Since my state's electoral votes are going to the republicans, I will vote for the greens, if given the opportunity, for the presidential ticket.

In states that are not "battleground" states, you should be more concerned with the state and local races; it's really important to me to try to get my current county sheriff (corrupt) out of office; and to elect a better District Atttorney.

Obama has already disappointed me in some respects (FISA, shooting mouth off about Pakistan), but I do think he'd make the next 4 years easier for us po'folks to get along. Especially us po'folks who are po' because of medical issues.

As far as Palin's hunting skills are concerned, I think she would have bagged her lawyer in one shot.