HOW DO I GET OFF THIS WITCHES' BREW?

[Karin]

My p-doc told me yesterday, after I had taken the various combinations of pills that stuffed up my brain and my life for a year, he doubts that I actually have Bipolar Syndrome.

I have decided that I am going off these meds. I am not going back to that pdoc, as he is not claiming ONE more CENT from my medical aid, I'll get off these chemicals myself. Please help me, advise me, apparently I could die if I just stop taking it.

Critical, daily stuff to lose is:

Lamictal 200 mg

Wellbutrin 300 mg

Topomax 50 mg

How do I do it? I know slowly, but how...???

[tryp]

I think you really, really need a pdoc to deal with that, especially since you're on multiple meds, including two AEDs.

It sounds to me like you're having a reaction to what your pdoc said to you. Obviously pdoc doesn't want to stop your meds, or he would have told you how to do it.

IMO, trying to get off those meds on your own is a really bad idea. Call your pdoc, or find another pdoc, and talk this through with someone. Or at least, wait until you've cooled down a bit.

[Karin]

I shall answer you all with pleasure, cause you deserve an answer cause you do. He has also added Cipralex 10 mg now, which I am not going to get and not going to drink. I also have the Ivedal I can drink whenever I want to, but I am hoarding it.

If I cannot trust pdoc, to be on my side, to bat in my corner with me, to look after me, I cannot trust the medication he is prescribing me. He upsets me, accuses me of lieing, of projecting, on the 4th time he sees me? If I am not BP, why should I drink this meds? He never calls my GP, my family, my boyfriend to check about me?

He asks me out of the blue, unexpectedly, about stuff that happened 25-35 years ago. Then, because I can not remember too much, and I am embarrased about the shit I did, and close my body language, and have to think about the answers, sometimes I have to remember if it was when I was 15 or 16, he says I am lieing.

He accused me of things that is not true. I do not lie. He does not believe me, and I feel as if I am made to sit there and PROVE To him that I have Bipolar. I don't want to have Bipolar, and if he says he doesn't think I do, then I don't have to drink the meds? I don't have to prove NOTHING to nobody.

I feel as if I am medicated out of my personality.

I gained 20 kg last year.

I had to stop drinking my beloved glass of wine every night.

My libido is lowered.

I have lost my joi de vivre, I don't want to wear a purple hat any more.

I have lost my "crazy" hellraiser attitude - my endless energy.

I sleep 8 hours every night, without sleeping meds.

The meds is costing me a fortune in excess payments not covered by my medical aid. Why drink it if I don't need it.

The meds are unnatural chemicals and is mind altering. I have reached almost 50 as is, I did not want to be different now. I just want to be me again.

The see-saw is killing me. Now you are, no you're not, yes you are, no youre not. Then I say, fuckem babes, fuck their meds, and let me wear a purple hat and eat my sausage all in one.

[sorrel]

So there are 2 issues:

1. Your psychiatrist is an ass and you don't trust him.

2. You don't like med side effects and don't feel you need the meds.

Those are separate issues. The fact that your psychiatrist accuses you of lying (while really unfortunate) has nothing to do with whether you should take meds or not. Also, if you don't trust him, why would you trust his assessment that you don't have bipolar and don't need meds? You trust him just on that one issue?

Taking meds is a choice and you don't have to if you don't want to. But I would think it would be a better idea to find a new psychiatrist first, one you can trust, and discuss the issue openly with him/her. Get his/her opinion on your diagnosis and your need for meds. Discuss why you don't like the meds. Then if you decide you want to quit them, do it under that person's supervision.

[beetle]

I shall answer you all with pleasure, cause you deserve an answer cause you do. He has also added Cipralex 10 mg now, which I am not going to get and not going to drink. I also have the Ivedal I can drink whenever I want to, but I am hoarding it.

If I cannot trust pdoc, to be on my side, to bat in my corner with me, to look after me, I cannot trust the medication he is prescribing me. He upsets me, accuses me of lieing, of projecting, on the 4th time he sees me? If I am not BP, why should I drink this meds? He never calls my GP, my family, my boyfriend to check about me?

He asks me out of the blue, unexpectedly, about stuff that happened 25-35 years ago. Then, because I can not remember too much, and I am embarrased about the shit I did, and close my body language, and have to think about the answers, sometimes I have to remember if it was when I was 15 or 16, he says I am lieing.

He accused me of things that is not true. I do not lie. He does not believe me, and I feel as if I am made to sit there and PROVE To him that I have Bipolar. I don't want to have Bipolar, and if he says he doesn't think I do, then I don't have to drink the meds? I don't have to prove NOTHING to nobody.

I feel as if I am medicated out of my personality.

I gained 20 kg last year.

I had to stop drinking my beloved glass of wine every night.

My libido is lowered.

I have lost my joi de vivre, I don't want to wear a purple hat any more.

I have lost my "crazy" hellraiser attitude - my endless energy.

I sleep 8 hours every night, without sleeping meds.

The meds is costing me a fortune in excess payments not covered by my medical aid. Why drink it if I don't need it.

The meds are unnatural chemicals and is mind altering. I have reached almost 50 as is, I did not want to be different now. I just want to be me again.

The see-saw is killing me. Now you are, no you're not, yes you are, no youre not. Then I say, fuckem babes, fuck their meds, and let me wear a purple hat and eat my sausage all in one.

What was your original reason(s) for seeking psychiatric care in the first place?

[tryp]

Karin, I really feel for you. Reading your post, I can see that you're really hurting, and I can see why. It's a terrible thing to feel like your pdoc's betrayed you - when you trust someone with your body and your mind and get back what you see as unfair or poor treatment, it's natural to feel angry and want to immediately do something about it.

But I want to ask you - how was your pdoc the other times you saw him? Because pdocs are human, and they make mistakes. Sometimes big ones. Sometimes ones that really hurt you. I know, because my pdoc has really hurt me before. But in my opinion, it's usually worth giving them a chance to fix it. What do you have to lose by going back one more time and trying to talk this out? At the very least, your pdoc will probably give you tapering instructions if you really push for them, and honestly, that would be a much better option than trying to kick your meds on your own.

About the meds - please really give this some time and thought, because this isn't a decision you want to make angry. Think back to when you went to see a pdoc in the first place. There must have been a reason. There must have been something that made you take the meds in the first place, and that reason is still going to be under there. Whether pdoc wants to call it BP or not, if the meds are helping you, really think about whether you want to drop them all at once.

If I were you, my first move would be to call pdoc and explain things and try to patch things up. Barring that, find a new pdoc you can trust and talk this over and then, if you still want to, slowly taper off your meds one at a time with medical supervision.

[CrazyLee]

Karin please be very careful if you come off your meds with the help of another doctor. Please read why quitting anti-convulsants cold turkey can cause seizures. Please seek out tapering schedules and do this SLOWLY!

Go to crazymeds.us they have good info on quitting meds.

[N&P]

Karin, please don't take this the wrong way, I really feel for you but I get the feeling that you want to stop your meds so that you'll become very, very sick and thus prove pdoc wrong..

I believe all the other reasons you stated but I think this one is most destructive and I hope you think about it.

You have every right to be angry and to want to prove pdoc wrong but this is not an ok way to do that. You (not pdoc) have come a long way...destroying yourself only hurts you. It does nothing to pdoc.

Do not allow this to take all that you have worked towards away from you.

Stay on your meds, have a conversation with pdoc and find a new pdoc if necessary.

[meg]

am tired, so sorry for the format, I'm not trying to be curt, just can't word things well right now, hence the list:

(oh, and sorry if I repeat anybody or myself, lol)

just because these meds aren't that helpful doesn't mean that no-meds-ever-will-help.

what did you go in to get help for in the first place? I'm assuming the pdoc didn't go search you out.

can someone close to you help you look back and remember what symptoms worried you enough to seek out a doctor and deal with meds, etc.?

bipolar is not the only diagnosis or mental illness. it's not 'you have BP' VS 'you are in PERFECT mental health'.

if it was BP or nothin' then most of us wouldn't be here.

you don't actually *need* a diagnosis in order to effectively treat symptoms and issues that you're having..diagnoses are basically just guidelines to make it easier.

diagnoses aren't usually made by which meds work or don't work for you-- we SO don't know enough about the brain to go "oh! lamictal doesn't work? that means you can't possibly be BP..congrats!' so I don't know where the doc is coming from with that if that is indeed all he is going off of.

seeing someone 4 times doesn't make them an expert on the 50 years of history with the moods and brain that you have- so his opinion is just that-- a professional opinion.

if you don't trust his opinion on anything else (like he thinks your lying when you're not?) then why trust his opinion on your diagnoses?

can you look for another pdoc? getting a 'second opinion' is really valuable, especially if you think the first opinion is crap.

if he thought you shouldn't be on any of your meds and thought they were all useless then why wouldn't he tell you to stop taking them and start helping you reduce them?

did you ask him why you are still taking the medications? does he know that you want to stop them?

okay- those are my main questions looking at your post, hopefully I can come back and make more sense but I just would hate to see you (or anyone)

1) throw away psychiatry, meds, medical help, support and help because of any of the following:

- bad doctor

- first meds didn't work

- second meds didn't work

- don't like the side-effects of some med

- are angry and wish they didn't need help

- talk themself into thinking they don't need help

- etc.

2) stop dangerous combinations of medications (psych or *any* medication type) on their own OR on the advice of what they read on the internet from other people who are not doctors

3) stop any meds (especially said dangerous combinations) without having a doctor even *know* what you're going to do

4) give up all help because of one bad doctor (or one doctor who they didn't get along with/like/understand)

- we've all had crap doctors before, my first pdoc was an absolute jackassmoronquack but if I'd given up on meds because he said I was 'just a smalltown girl blowing off steam' when I was really having what looks like a BP mixed episode and endangering my life, I'd either be dead or totally miserable and would never have gotten to enjoy my life or do anything worth doing.

- a good doctor (and they DO exist!) is a beautiful wonderful resource and support. it's so good to be able to trust the person giving you medications and trying to understand your issues.

sorry that's so long!

please think through your choices here and at the very least see a pdoc (any pdoc) to help you stop meds.

seizures suck from what I hear.

goodluck, let us know how you're doing?

m

[Karin]

So there are 2 issues:

1. Your psychiatrist is an ass and you don't trust him.

2. You don't like med side effects and don't feel you need the meds.

Those are separate issues. The fact that your psychiatrist accuses you of lying (while really unfortunate) has nothing to do with whether you should take meds or not. Also, if you don't trust him, why would you trust his assessment that you don't have bipolar and don't need meds? You trust him just on that one issue?

Taking meds is a choice and you don't have to if you don't want to. But I would think it would be a better idea to find a new psychiatrist first, one you can trust, and discuss the issue openly with him/her. Get his/her opinion on your diagnosis and your need for meds. Discuss why you don't like the meds. Then if you decide you want to quit them, do it under that person's supervision.

Sorrel, I have lots of posts here that I have to go through this morning, and as each one bothered to answer me, I think it would be courteous of me to answer each one personally?

To you, personally. Thank you for this analytical, cool, level headed, unemotional post. This was just what I needed at that moment. Your sensible, reasonable response, took all emotions out of me last night, calmed me down, and made me look at the true issues at hand. Thank you. And you are absolutely right. THANK YOU. I don't think you will ever realise what you did for me last night. I was so bloody tired of all the meds and shit and drama and issues, and you calmed it all right down and brought the true facts to me.

I can never thank you enough. I hope that one day, I can post something, the right words at the right moment, for someone else, to make up for what you did for me last night.

[Karin]

am tired, so sorry for the format, I'm not trying to be curt, just can't word things well right now, hence the list:

(oh, and sorry if I repeat anybody or myself, lol)

just because these meds aren't that helpful doesn't mean that no-meds-ever-will-help.

what did you go in to get help for in the first place? I'm assuming the pdoc didn't go search you out.

can someone close to you help you look back and remember what symptoms worried you enough to seek out a doctor and deal with meds, etc.?

bipolar is not the only diagnosis or mental illness. it's not 'you have BP' VS 'you are in PERFECT mental health'.

if it was BP or nothin' then most of us wouldn't be here.

you don't actually *need* a diagnosis in order to effectively treat symptoms and issues that you're having..diagnoses are basically just guidelines to make it easier.

diagnoses aren't usually made by which meds work or don't work for you-- we SO don't know enough about the brain to go "oh! lamictal doesn't work? that means you can't possibly be BP..congrats!' so I don't know where the doc is coming from with that if that is indeed all he is going off of.

seeing someone 4 times doesn't make them an expert on the 50 years of history with the moods and brain that you have- so his opinion is just that-- a professional opinion.

if you don't trust his opinion on anything else (like he thinks your lying when you're not?) then why trust his opinion on your diagnoses?

can you look for another pdoc? getting a 'second opinion' is really valuable, especially if you think the first opinion is crap.

if he thought you shouldn't be on any of your meds and thought they were all useless then why wouldn't he tell you to stop taking them and start helping you reduce them?

did you ask him why you are still taking the medications? does he know that you want to stop them?

okay- those are my main questions looking at your post, hopefully I can come back and make more sense but I just would hate to see you (or anyone)

1) throw away psychiatry, meds, medical help, support and help because of any of the following:

- bad doctor

- first meds didn't work

- second meds didn't work

- don't like the side-effects of some med

- are angry and wish they didn't need help

- talk themself into thinking they don't need help

- etc.

2) stop dangerous combinations of medications (psych or *any* medication type) on their own OR on the advice of what they read on the internet from other people who are not doctors

3) stop any meds (especially said dangerous combinations) without having a doctor even *know* what you're going to do

4) give up all help because of one bad doctor (or one doctor who they didn't get along with/like/understand)

- we've all had crap doctors before, my first pdoc was an absolute jackassmoronquack but if I'd given up on meds because he said I was 'just a smalltown girl blowing off steam' when I was really having what looks like a BP mixed episode and endangering my life, I'd either be dead or totally miserable and would never have gotten to enjoy my life or do anything worth doing.

- a good doctor (and they DO exist!) is a beautiful wonderful resource and support. it's so good to be able to trust the person giving you medications and trying to understand your issues.

sorry that's so long!

please think through your choices here and at the very least see a pdoc (any pdoc) to help you stop meds.

seizures suck from what I hear.

goodluck, let us know how you're doing?

m

This is not too long and not too curt and I appreciate every word and I was so confused and emotional yesterday that I did not make sense to myself!

I thank you for writing to me, and every word you say is perfect sense. I agree with you 10000000 percent!

My GP, who sent me to a pdoc in the first place when I wanted to commit suicide, is sending me for a 2nd opinion. My daughter, my friend from school (herself a bipolar), all believe "bipolar".

I sent this pdoc a stinking email telling him that he is unprofessional, that he "used" me to get accessories for his vehicle, and that he could never make any assessment on my life or place me on these meds based on 4 appointments. He never even offered to send me for therapy, and he did nothing to disabuse me of my opinion of his profession... he never even answered me!

I have to wait till June for another appointment with a very expensive but very thorough pdoc, and she is probably going to bankrupt me further.

I shall listen to you all, stay on these meds, and just believe you all here will keep me sane.

[Karin]

Karin, I really feel for you. Reading your post, I can see that you're really hurting, and I can see why. It's a terrible thing to feel like your pdoc's betrayed you - when you trust someone with your body and your mind and get back what you see as unfair or poor treatment, it's natural to feel angry and want to immediately do something about it.

But I want to ask you - how was your pdoc the other times you saw him? Because pdocs are human, and they make mistakes. Sometimes big ones. Sometimes ones that really hurt you. I know, because my pdoc has really hurt me before. But in my opinion, it's usually worth giving them a chance to fix it. What do you have to lose by going back one more time and trying to talk this out? At the very least, your pdoc will probably give you tapering instructions if you really push for them, and honestly, that would be a much better option than trying to kick your meds on your own.

About the meds - please really give this some time and thought, because this isn't a decision you want to make angry. Think back to when you went to see a pdoc in the first place. There must have been a reason. There must have been something that made you take the meds in the first place, and that reason is still going to be under there. Whether pdoc wants to call it BP or not, if the meds are helping you, really think about whether you want to drop them all at once.

If I were you, my first move would be to call pdoc and explain things and try to patch things up. Barring that, find a new pdoc you can trust and talk this over and then, if you still want to, slowly taper off your meds one at a time with medical supervision.

Ah, man, thank you so much for your concern... While this asshole told me I am lieing, he at the same time ADDED to my meds... He added Cymbalta to the prescription, and said he wanted to see me in a month's time, at which time he would prove to me I am lieing about symptoms, because I have to THINK to remember what happened 35 years ago??

I went to my GP, whom I have known for yonks, and he was speachless. He is now getting me in at the "best" pdoc in the city, but I have to wait till June to see her - and give a MONSTROUS deposit. ??!!!

I just felt so flat and down since Thursday... I go to this asshole because my chemist stuffed up my Wellbutrin, and I took 150 mg instead of 300 mg for 4 days and can not get over the anger issues since then, and now he tells me I do not have Bipolar, but here is some Cymbalta, I am lieing about symptoms, and thank you for helping him get stuff for his expensive 4x4, but that favour only lasts SO long, and NOW we are going to begin proper treatment... so in other words, he thinks he has been "humouring me" for 8 months by agreeing with my GP, my friend, my daughter, to a Bipolar diagnosis in order to get stuff for his 4x4? Shit man?

Do you see why I feel so betrayed?

I am working myself up again... Sorry.

[Karin]

Hi, Meg,

I have had a very tumultuous life, but I managed to hide it very well, due to having lots of money before my last divorce, as well as because my ex husband was away on business for most of the time. I managed to "hide" behind role playing, and believed there were different Karin's in me, i.e. "sport Karin", "mommy Karin", "office Karin", etc., exactly like you get Barbies. I bought my daughter lots of Barbies. 26 Barbies.

Later on, after I got divorced about 5-6 years ago, I could "let rip" openly. When I stopped smoking, I had serious suicide plans, and my friend in Sacramento just called me at the right moment... She is BP and realised something was up.

My GP, who has known me for many years, had suspected BP for a long time, and this was the excuse he needed to get me to a proper pdoc. I refused to go, cause I had been to many psychologists and therapists, and even a psychiatrist or two (who DID diagnose manic depressive, but my x had me out of there in no time!)

I told this pdoc about all this, but he initially said he is not sure I am BP, then agreed, now he says definitely not. He says I am lieing, faking, but puts me on hellishly strong meds? WTF ???

Why then, should I have all these meds if I am lieing and faking?

[Karin]

Karin, please don't take this the wrong way, I really feel for you but I get the feeling that you want to stop your meds so that you'll become very, very sick and thus prove pdoc wrong..

I believe all the other reasons you stated but I think this one is most destructive and I hope you think about it.

You have every right to be angry and to want to prove pdoc wrong but this is not an ok way to do that. You (not pdoc) have come a long way...destroying yourself only hurts you. It does nothing to pdoc.

Do not allow this to take all that you have worked towards away from you.

Stay on your meds, have a conversation with pdoc and find a new pdoc if necessary.

I think you are perfectly right. I just wanted to lash back at this pdoc. I am calmer now, though!

I am also just wondering at the futility of him messing with the chems in my brain, if he did not think there is an imbalance???

And the numerous statements he made about having now achieved the delicate balance?

But my GP is getting me in with another pdoc, I have to just wait till June, unfortunately.

URRRRRGGGH....!!!

[olga]

Karin, I have refrained from this discussion because I don't have a pdoc and don't pretend to be an expert on them. But I wanted to extend some sympathy because I think your pdoc acted strangely and I am very glad you will see a new one.

In terms of your diagnosis, well, when you see the new pdoc I'm sure you will get an expert opinion and perhaps you will feel that you can trust the new doctor. However, sometimes I have seen CB members whose doctors are treating their symptoms to help them have a good, stable life, and i think that might even be better than a formal diagnosis. If a patient has anger and agitation and depression---well, he or she needs medicines and possibly therapy for those symptoms. But do you really need to have a label on whatever your type of MI is?

To me, it's more important to have a doctor who sees YOU, Karin, the person---who is struggling through life and doing the best she can. What the name of your MI is seems to me to be unimportant. Effective treatment for your issues should be the top priority. I hope this new doctor can discuss your symptoms in a dispassionate way and help you by prescribing appropriate meds. It sounds like you've had a very difficult time.

olga

[gizmo]

Karin -

I had to go see a psychologist as part of a disability exam. I sat with the guy for 50 minutes and politely answered all his questions. Very completely and frankly. Sometimes, in fact, he had to tell me to stop talking so he could go on to the next question, lol.

Anyway, my doctor gets a copy of his report. It's nine pages long. My doctor asks me how in the heck long did I talk with the guy in order to generate a detailed nine page report?

Then she tells me the doctor doesn't really think I'm bipolar, he thinks I'm borderline personality disorder. My main concern was that *my doctor* didn't believe this guy, because I've researched BPD in the past, and I am pretty confident I don't have it. She didn't.

So it just goes to show you that, in my case too, a trained professional with a short amount of time with you, can make an educated WRONG diagnosis.

I wish you the best with your new doctor.

[Karin]

Karin -

I had to go see a psychologist as part of a disability exam. I sat with the guy for 50 minutes and politely answered all his questions. Very completely and frankly. Sometimes, in fact, he had to tell me to stop talking so he could go on to the next question, lol.

Anyway, my doctor gets a copy of his report. It's nine pages long. My doctor asks me how in the heck long did I talk with the guy in order to generate a detailed nine page report?

Then she tells me the doctor doesn't really think I'm bipolar, he thinks I'm borderline personality disorder. My main concern was that *my doctor* didn't believe this guy, because I've researched BPD in the past, and I am pretty confident I don't have it. She didn't.

So it just goes to show you that, in my case too, a trained professional with a short amount of time with you, can make an educated WRONG diagnosis.

I wish you the best with your new doctor.

This is unreal!

In my language we call that "gargle" out a report... *nine pages?* out of 50 minutes?

SSSSJJJEEEESSHHH

But Gizmo, what would you say of a theory that the less they have to say of value, the longer the actual report would be?

I sat thinking about this whole thing this week-end and again, what you are saying almost confirms my thoughts: again, what would be your opinion? How can anyone make an observation, or an assessment on who and what you are based on 50 minutes?

I am an excellent actress - I have had to be to be able to hide my different personalities so well. I have been able to act the goodie-two-shoes very well to my p-doc. How can he assess me accurately, especially if he sits pecking away, learning a new programme on his laptop?

I have made appointments, and simply just cancelled them. So, how does he actually KNOW me? How does he KNOW 50 years of my life?

[Karin]

Karin, I have refrained from this discussion because I don't have a pdoc and don't pretend to be an expert on them. But I wanted to extend some sympathy because I think your pdoc acted strangely and I am very glad you will see a new one.

In terms of your diagnosis, well, when you see the new pdoc I'm sure you will get an expert opinion and perhaps you will feel that you can trust the new doctor. However, sometimes I have seen CB members whose doctors are treating their symptoms to help them have a good, stable life, and i think that might even be better than a formal diagnosis. If a patient has anger and agitation and depression---well, he or she needs medicines and possibly therapy for those symptoms. But do you really need to have a label on whatever your type of MI is?

To me, it's more important to have a doctor who sees YOU, Karin, the person---who is struggling through life and doing the best she can. What the name of your MI is seems to me to be unimportant. Effective treatment for your issues should be the top priority. I hope this new doctor can discuss your symptoms in a dispassionate way and help you by prescribing appropriate meds. It sounds like you've had a very difficult time.

olga

Dear Olga,

This really was thought provoking - and I took my time, and in fact, am still taking my time to answer...

I really asked myself the question:

Why am I upset?

I am still thinking about it... out loud while maybe trying "blogging"... (yip, I am learning THAT art for the first time now! )

And I think the real answer is that I wanted to belong somewhere. I am not sure if that makes any sense.

I still feel that I want to stop meds, though. I really do.

[Karin]

Olga, I think it is the loss of my happy-go-lucky, flighty airy-fairy personality which is the worst.

And to be told that I am drugged to my eyeballs because I am FAKING? And then to be told by this person whom I trusted, whom I allowed to make me a legal junkie, a drug addict, that I have to prove I am BP? And then he is telling me that he will prove to me I am faking, putting the fear of god into me for any future appointment? In other words, next time I walk in there, he is going to make a fool out of me? And I am PAYING him for that? Se moer my skat. Fortunately you don't know to what language you need to translate that!

I JUST HAVE to get out of these meds. I suddenly feel as if I am drugged up to my eyeballs and out of my self.

This weekend I tried to be quiet, to think, (as much as I possibly could after I almost thundered that big "drug dealer wannabe" and his cronies for parking me in and then be laxadaisy about it.) (My head goes spinning with the thoughts chasing the white light and the nausea in my stomach and my arms and legs go watery.)

But I still feel I need to get off these meds, get back to ME, and see how I go. I have been me up to now, two thirds of my life is gone, then the year of meds and "treatment". No thanks.

I am not going to finish my life in this deadened state. I'll rather go out with a bang than a whisper.

[olga]

Karin, I have refrained from this discussion because I don't have a pdoc and don't pretend to be an expert on them. But I wanted to extend some sympathy because I think your pdoc acted strangely and I am very glad you will see a new one.

In terms of your diagnosis, well, when you see the new pdoc I'm sure you will get an expert opinion and perhaps you will feel that you can trust the new doctor. However, sometimes I have seen CB members whose doctors are treating their symptoms to help them have a good, stable life, and i think that might even be better than a formal diagnosis. If a patient has anger and agitation and depression---well, he or she needs medicines and possibly therapy for those symptoms. But do you really need to have a label on whatever your type of MI is?

To me, it's more important to have a doctor who sees YOU, Karin, the person---who is struggling through life and doing the best she can. What the name of your MI is seems to me to be unimportant. Effective treatment for your issues should be the top priority. I hope this new doctor can discuss your symptoms in a dispassionate way and help you by prescribing appropriate meds. It sounds like you've had a very difficult time.

olga

Dear Olga,

This really was thought provoking - and I took my time, and in fact, am still taking my time to answer...

I really asked myself the question:

Why am I upset?

I am still thinking about it... out loud while maybe trying "blogging"... (yip, I am learning THAT art for the first time now! )

And I think the real answer is that I wanted to belong somewhere. I am not sure if that makes any sense.

I still feel that I want to stop meds, though. I really do.

Okay, I understand the "belonging" thing because most of us came here, read some posts and thought "Hey! That's how I feel most of the time. Maybe I have what she has." For me, it was a light bulb going off. It helped me to admit to myself that what was going on with me was depression and I needed to get treatment for it.

I understand the feeling of wanting to go off the meds. Since you don't feel like you are doing well on these medications, it's a normal feeling to want to get off them. It's just that we at CB all know how serious a skid you can hit if you go off them all at the same time, and without supervision. Going off some meds can cause seizures and other very serious stuff.

If you want to go off them, please do it with a doctor's supervision. Don't try to do this by yourself.

And I hope you will see the new pdoc. Many of them are very smart, conscientious doctors and you might be pleasantly surprised by the new guy.

ETA: I just read your most recent post. I know what you mean about the deadened, half-alive feeling. But please please please give the new pdoc a chance. He or she can't possibly be the kind of jackass the first guy was.

olga

[Karin]

I really am feeling so much better today, Olga!

I won't go off all the meds without medical supervision. I think it would be especially very extremely dumb to mess around with anti-convulsives after receiving warnings from people here on CB who clearly know what you are talking about.

I do crazy things, but to come on the board here, ask the question and then not listen to informed answers, would be to insult everyone on CB. I have more respect for you all than for that stupid doctor who charged me almost equal to the minimum monthly legal wage for poor people, for 50 minutes "consultation"? (I wonder if he wasn't playing computer games, pretending to be typing my answers into his new pc "programme"?)

I do feel loads better today. I have really made the decision to at least try to be on a lighter dosage of meds by June, when I have to see the new pdoc, so I can at least be more myself.

I think this sounds a bit more reasonable?

[Karin]

.... Thought I'd pop a footnote in here!

What with picking up Sambuca, then chinese, I got home a bit late and it was quite late when we finished the chinese and I eventually realised that my Lamictin is finished and the emergency stash had been used. So I went without Lamictin last night and this morning, till about nine o clock, when I could get some from the pharmacy.

I felt

- disjointed: My fingers would not type.

- disorientated: My head would not remember words and names. I could not even rememer my son's name.

- I was being chocked from my feet up as if someone had put me in a bag of something and was squeezing. Then there was something round my throat, squeezing.

- I was perspiring rivers.

Then I got a Lamictin, which I took on an empty stomach, and it hit my bloodstream.

I can not go off any meds just like that.

[olga]

Oh, I'm glad you came to that realization!

Is Sambuca the kitty? Hooray for rescuing kitties! I hope you enjoy having a new baby to play with, and keep us posted on your journey.

olga

[Karin]

AAAH, Olga, he is just soooo cute! And he was rescued at a building site when he was 3 days old, and raised by bottle, so he sees humans as "mommy"!

The whole night he played around, then jumps on top of me for a scratch and a few kisses and hugs, and maybe a snooze, then he eats, plays poeps and on top of sleeping mommy for kisses and skratches!

Sasha, his new older sister, my other nuts klutz crazy cat, is so angry at me that she is stalking me around the cottage and attacks me! She sits way away from this whole scene and she cries and howls in frustration like a real hell cat. Then when I walk into the lounge, she attacks me.

Sho, I don't know much, if anything, about cats, so I don't know how I am going to get around this problem yet.

[olga]

It might be a good idea to put the kitten in a neutral place like the bathroom (toilet lid closed!) with a basket and food and a litter box, and give your older kitty some undivided attention. Talk to her and explain that she will always be #1 with you, but that this little baby had no place to go.

Do NOT leave the kitten alone with the older cat if you aren't supervising.

I wouldn't let the little kitten sleep with you just yet if the older kitty normally does. The kitten should be in a place where she can get to the litter box.

Oh, and be sure you have two litter boxes. Sasha should NOT have to poop and pee with that little interloper! Plus, you don't know if the kitten has brought worms or any viruses or diseases with him from the shelter.

They will eventually get along, but be sure to give Sasha lots of attention.

olga

[Karin]

Thanks, Olga!

That sounds very good advice to me! Sasha claimed my very expensive white bobble cotton mat in the bathroom for herself to sleep on, but would not go NEAR it last night, as she had to go through my room. She never sleeps with me.

She is a real character - well known amongst my friends and family as being totally crazy. I tried chatting to her last night, but she was so angry with me, she just stalked me, then attacked me from under any table or chair she could. But I think I smelled of Sambuca?

He is definitely not totally clean - it is a shelter, operating on charity only... I shall have to take both to be dewormed and checked thoroughly.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate!