sdjeff Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Well, they did it. The feds increased the cigarette tax from $.39 to I believe $1.06. anyway I think this sucks for a lot of people I know. Personally for me, I'm neutral. I make my own and it doesn't seem to affect me. So what are your thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2mnot Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I'm screwed. And very pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillech Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I had to quit. It's 6.50$ for a pack of genetics here. So far, I have saved almost 80$. Go me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r2mnot Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Give it enough time and weed will cost less than tobacco. Or maybe it does? Not that I smoke it or am recommending it or anything like that. (Don't mind me. I'm not a happy camper today.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 yeah, I realized it would be cheaper for me to wear the patch the rest of my life. And healthier too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downsolong Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Repeal 2200% tax increase!!! Fight the Bastard Anti-smokers!!! I've been betrayed again by a society that doesn't realize how evil it can be. I want to kill anti-smoker extortionists. 2200% tax increase!!! Cigarettes aren't a problem, systemic discrimination against smokers is. Anti-smokers are the problems, kill a few for me and stuff their extortionist asses with the patches. This impacts people with mental illnesses at a higher rate than the general population. Sue Congress and the Prez for violating the Uniform Tax Clause and our 9th Amendment. Violations of Rights are subject to civil liability. "ROLL-YOUR-OWN TOBACCO TAX from $1.0969 per pound to $24.78 (that is not a typo) per pound" "Frankly, this April Fool's joke doesn't strike me as being funny at all." The SCHIP tax is imposing over a 2,000% tax increase on those Americans too poor to buy cigarettes but who roll their own from shreds of loose tobacco and scraps of paper. I'm now getting mugged by this tax $20/week!!! Systemic Discrimination/Extortion against smokers must be stopped! The new taxes and Jim Crow/Joe Camel laws are unjust and highly hypocritical of an oil addicted earth poisoning society that calls itself free. Such a tax is the most regressive tax ever as it targets mostly the lower end of the income spectrum. End the nuke waste, coal power plants, gas addictions of everyone. Tobacco smokers should simply be grandfathered into the laws, if tobacco is so bad they will all soon die off. I've been denied jobs, education, and healthcare, now they want to steal yet more money with their hysterical puritan lies and hate. I've got a measage for them, go fuck off and die you witchburning pricks. I WILL NOT stop smoking, because it's something I enjoy! I WILL NOT bow to the pressure of those who think they can rule my life! I WILL NOT be prey for those jackals who set out to extort the money I've worked for to use against me! I WILL NOT allow my Constitutional rights to be destroyed without protest! I WILL FIGHT BACK WITH ALL THE MEANS AT MY DISPOSAL! Much of the anti-smoker propaganda is based on oft repeated lies, and doesn't pass scientific muster. OSHA says secondhand smoke isn't a significant hassard. Much of the harm attributed to it is in fact the results of the many other toxins in modern cities, workplaces, and homes. Bans and unequal taxation are systemic discrimation and the tyranny of a majority. ---- www.nycclash.com/CaseAgainstBans/OSHA.html [link=http://www.smokingaloud.com/discriminate.html"'>http://www.smokingaloud.com/discriminate.html" target="_blank]http://www.smokingaloud.com/discriminate.html[/link] [link=http://ryorevolution.com/ryo-schip-table.html"'>http://ryorevolution.com/ryo-schip-table.html" target="_blank]http://ryorevolution.com/ryo-schip-table.html[/link] I'm being robbed without representation. The only real objection the anties have is they hate the smell, well they can consider that I hate the smell of their shit but I don't outlaw it or tax it at rates I don't tax my own. ~Down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_b Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 It really sucks that the one last vice I have is becoming more of a burden to my wallet. Makes my idea of retiring to a beach in Mexico seem that much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Notice they dont tax the fuck out of alcohol, yet it destroys and kills a fuckload of lives. It's probably cheaper for me to go to e-cigs. Patches don't work for me. gum doesn't work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celestia Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Well, I'm going to sound like an old grump, but...you all know my pitch. My husband would be alive today if not for (un)Lucky Strikes. He was 48 when he died of lung cancer. Having said that, I think it sucks. I think this country is absolutely evil and criminal in the way they whore themselves to the cigarette lobbies and tobacco companies out the back door, and out the front they say, "well, it's every person's right to smoke. Everyone knows more than social smoking is hazardous". My ass. I smoked for a long time too. I was even a lightweight at that 1/2 a pack a day. But I have never known any social smokers. And now that I'm getting older, I have siblings who still smoke and it scares the shit out of me. So, I'm sorry they have you over a barrel. They are agents of Satan and will burn in a fiery hell. If there is such a place. Beelzubub smokes Camel non filters I'm sure. Before he died, he started rolling his own. I mean he had all that rolling practice from the other weed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayteana Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hmm. Well. *clears throat* I stopped acquiring my cigarettes through the federal government of the good U.S. of A. umm about 8-9 years ago. So outside of the occasional rant as to how the government is taxing the low income smokers of the country at a higher rate then smokers of greater income... I don't pay much attention to what they do with the price of smokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murmur Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I WILL NOT stop smoking, because it's something I enjoy! I WILL NOT bow to the pressure of those who think they can rule my life! I WILL NOT be prey for those jackals who set out to extort the money I've worked for to use against me! I WILL NOT allow my Constitutional rights to be destroyed without protest! I WILL FIGHT BACK WITH ALL THE MEANS AT MY DISPOSAL! As a fellow smoker, HEAR HEAR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogMan Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 is that all you pay over there? here in aus it is over 50% tax on ciggs. your $6.50 a pack, we pay in just tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrea3821 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I smoke cloves and it's up to like $6.50/pack now. It was $5/pack (compared with about $3/pack of cigs) when I started. Then add regular sales tax. People not faced with addiction problems see no harm in this. "Yeah, well, maybe that'll teach the smokers that they should just quit." It ain't that easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdjeff Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share Posted April 16, 2009 Hey guys, Remember how I said I was neutral? Well, the ass clowns in the state legislature here decided to levy a MASSIVE tax increase the same time as the feds. I decided not to make my own anymore. They hit RYO/MYO tobacco the hardest. Fuckers. Sooooo Since I live on a fixed income I bought a couple cartons of really shitty smokes (still pretty damn expensive but about the same as RYO/MYO) and I'm tapering down. I knew I had to quit someday. I just wanted to do it in my own damn terms. Assholes. Just another example of the man fucking you over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nalgas Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 The only real objection the anties have is they hate the smell, well they can consider that I hate the smell of their shit but I don't outlaw it or tax it at rates I don't tax my own. Well, I assume in that case that you won't mind if I come poop on your desk at work or your table at a restaurant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I have severe asthma and allergies. There's a good chance that being raised in a home with cigarette smokers caused a great deal of it. As it is now, smoking is not just a bad smell, it can send me to the emergency room and put me in the hospital. I was thrilled when smoking was banned in public places because I'm a photographer and I simply cannot work in venues that are full of smoke, which limits what I can do. I watched my father die from lung cancer. If the increased cost helps someone else's father quit smoking before they get cancer, I'm happy. My mother was a heavy smoker until COPD put her on portable oxygen for the rest of her life, and when my son would come home from her house he could barely breathe he was so congested, and had black boogers in his nose. It was disgusting. Smoking is not benign, and it doesn't affect just the smoker. With that said, I support your right to smoke outside or in your own home or in other places where smoking is mutually agreed upon. But I do see the utility in taxing something that is a public health threat. I'm already paying taxes so smokers without health insurance can get care for smoking-related illnesses and I pay higher insurance premiums for the same reason. Same here. I have way more to complain about than just the smell of cigarettes. Even though it does stink to high heaven. I mean, it's not like we're holding a smoker's nose down in a pile of OUR shit. But I digress. I developed asthma fairly young and it was a pretty serious case of it. I still have it. Both of my parents were HEAVY smokers. I remember sitting in the living room watching cartoons, wheezing, barely able to breathe, looking at the clouds of smoke hanging in the air all around me. Seriously, that smoke was so thick you could cut it with a knife. But while their darling daughter that they wanted so badly and planned for gasped for air, my ignorant, selfish, addict parents cared more about getting their fix than giving me clean air to breathe. I love to be able to go to a restaurant that doesn't have a smoking section. Even when they have their own section, it's not like those of us with asthma aren't triggered by what wafts over. People that work in those places shouldn't be forced to breathe it either. You can have your addiction as long as you don't make others sick around you when you get your fix. I watched my grandfather die of lung cancer recently (heavy smoker). My mother is on the same path. I'm so grateful that she'll be putting me in the same position she found herself in when her father lay suffering. Thanks ma! My Dad died when I was 19. Basically a combination of heavy smoking, drinking and generally not taking care of himself. He got sick with pneumonia, went into the hospital and never came out. He went into respiratory arrest, they worked on him for about 30 minutes trying to bring him back... they did, as a vegetable. He lay in a coma while I his 19 year old daughter and only next of kin was bestowed with the honor of making the decision to take him of life support. Thanks pa! Cigarettes are gerrrrr-ate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I'm a nicotine junky. I'm moving over to the e-cigs. It's cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_b Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Increasing the tax on cigarettes is not going to save lives, it is only going to make more money for the government to spend. Honestly, how many addicts quit just because the cost goes up? My health insurance now adds a $25 month smoking fee. it has done nothing to curb the number of smokers. I have seen an increase in people buying the e-cigarettes around my office though. Sounds like a good idea, no tar or smoke, but you can get the nicotine dose as high as you want. How would everybody feel if the government decided to add an extra tax to soda, sugar, or high fat foods because it makes people fat which leads to high blood pressure, diabetes, heart attacks and strokes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Yeah, I don't smoke (as of two weeks ago) but I did for ten years. I didn't quit because of the tax actually but whatever. Here's my two cents. The state I live in makes it already impossible to smoke in a public buiding anywhere(it's SUPPOSED to be illegal to smoke within fifteen feet of an entrance as well, but whatever) THAT I entirely understand. Little kids don't need to be breathing that shit in and I know what it's like to NOT enjoy the smell of well, I guess smoke. My mom used to smoke in the car without the courtesy to roll down a window. Ugh, I wanted to puke. SO fine, outlaw it INSIDE public places, whatever, makes sense, sucks at a bar in the winter, but whatever. Some people don't want to breathe in cancer causing agents, go figure, some people do, like me, I just don't anymore, that's another matter. The tax is fucking BULLSHIT. Though, here, I kind of think at least what they are putting that money toward is a more than decent idea (state health insurance for child whose parents can't afford it, that's my kid, she's on state insurance, so good, insuring children is good) but it just feels like it's a way for the government to control us. That's so fucking ridiculous, why not tax the living hell out of alcohol too? That shit kills people. If people want to smoke, they should be able to smoke. It's a fucking addiction. It's just going to make the poor people who are addicted to it poorer because they'll probably still buy them anyway. I'm the only person I know who has quit since this tax happened, and it WASN'T a financial decision. So yeah, I think it's outrageous. Maddy- I am INCREDIBLY interested in the e-cig. If it really isn't harmful, the e-cig is the thing of my dreams. Though I am fairly certain the FDA is placing a ban on that. I wish there was substantial evidence that they aren't harmful, because I LOVE smoking, I NEED nicotine and I am WAY worse off now(in my brain) than I was before I quit smoking. I want to be sane again! Anyway, yeah, if anyone knows anything about the e-cig, let me know. That thing sounds fucking awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 How would everybody feel if the government decided to add an extra tax to soda, sugar, or high fat foods because it makes people fat which leads to high blood pressure, diabetes, heart attacks and strokes? Some places already have: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_sh...ama-places.html in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/ This is where I'm getting mine. I'm going to try the disposable one first to see if I like them first before I spend any big money on them first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I can get my vicodin (brand) cheaper than my smokes. how fucked is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayteana Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [link=http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/"'>http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/" target="_blank]http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/[/link] Interesting. What will they think up next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepster Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [link=http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/"'>http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/" target="_blank]http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/[/link] This is where I'm getting mine. I'm going to try the disposable one first to see if I like them first before I spend any big money on them first. Maddy- I'm eager to learn of your experience with this product. I beg you to keep us posted! Deepster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [link=http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/"'>http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/" target="_blank]http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/[/link] This is where I'm getting mine. I'm going to try the disposable one first to see if I like them first before I spend any big money on them first. Maddy- I'm eager to learn of your experience with this product. I beg you to keep us posted! Deepster No shit, I am really curious as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 [link=http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/"'>http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/" target="_blank]http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/[/link] This is where I'm getting mine. I'm going to try the disposable one first to see if I like them first before I spend any big money on them first. Maddy- I'm eager to learn of your experience with this product. I beg you to keep us posted! Deepster No shit, I am really curious as well. Will do. It's ordered and in the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downsolong Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Well, I assume in that case that you won't mind if I come poop on your desk at work or your table at a restaurant. by that logic I should be able to: make you do all your crapping out in the snow while charging you to do it and excluding you from; a job, healthcare, education, relaxation in public and private buildings, some towns, your children, media coverage, democratic representation, due process, any and all things that anybody might be alergic to or that might aggravate conditions they might have like peanuts, chocolate, deodorant, perfume, plastics, dirt, sunshine, moonlight, statements that offend them, reality, etc...wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 [link=http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/"'>http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/" target="_blank]http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/[/link] This is where I'm getting mine. I'm going to try the disposable one first to see if I like them first before I spend any big money on them first. Maddy- I'm eager to learn of your experience with this product. I beg you to keep us posted! Deepster No shit, I am really curious as well. Will do. It's ordered and in the post. I got it a few days ago but my internet was out due to a bad line from the outside of the house and it just got fixed today. I can report that I like it. My friend Manny also tried it and doesn't like it. So I guess it's a 50/50 thing from here. It gives me everything that I need. It relaxes me and makes me happy. It works unlike the patches and the gum. It tastes a bit sweeter than a regular cigarette and it's not hot like a smoking a cigarette, but other than that, yeah...it's a lot like smoking. Getting used to the vapor might take some people a little while. It took me a couple of puffs. Manny never got used to it. I'd definitely recommend checking out the disposable e-cigs first. They are pretty big (disposable), but I'm guessing that the mini ones are closer to cigarette size. Either way I don't care. I'm finding that I prefer these to the regular cigarettes anyway. hope this review helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 That's very interesting to me. I have been wondering about these things for months now, ever since I thought about quitting, so yeah. There are certainly claims that they are "healthy" alternative to cigarettes, which I HOPE is true, but it seems that anything worth enjoying is rather unhealthy So if it is proven that they are more healthy, I'll pick up my tobacco habit again for sure. I guess they are cheaper too, and you can use them in the public places where smoking is banned. Sounds like the best dream I've ever had to me. Does anyone know about this ban the FDA is supposed to be placing on the e-cigs, I haven't been keeping up with my current events, currently. Anyway, can you feel it when you inhale the vapor? I'm sure it's less harsh. And is the routine for you the same as with a cigarette? (I know a little about them because, of course, I've looked them up on several occasions) Or do you just pick it up more randomly, making it less like a "smoking" session? This probably sounds weird, but I always thought if I got those, since I could smoke them inside, I'd probably have it in my mouth constantly. Okay, sorry, I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 by that logic I should be able to: make you do all your crapping out in the snow while charging you to do it and excluding you from; a job, healthcare, education, relaxation in public and private buildings, some towns, your children, media coverage, democratic representation, due process, any and all things that anybody might be alergic to or that might aggravate conditions they might have like peanuts, chocolate, deodorant, perfume, plastics, dirt, sunshine, moonlight, statements that offend them, reality, etc...wouldn't it? wrong. crapping is a natural function; everybody takes a dump. smoking is at least initially a choice. it's not built into your biology. you won't become ill if you don't smoke. your logic really falls through. no one craps in public *the way people smoke*; instead we go off into BATHROOMS to contain the smell and the mess. the rest of that previous stuff just doesn't carry over as an analogy. oh, and if i did go around repeatedly taking a shit in public? i bet i'd be arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickler Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 While I do not want to get sent to the hospital or have to wear a gas mask all the time in order to accomodate smokers (have one and wear it in public on bad air days-very hard to wear in the Houston heat), I think smokers ought to have the right to smoke somewhere. I furthermore would like any tax levied on ciggies to go strictly into health care funding-and the fact that it is treated as general revenue pisses me off. I also think all drugs should be legal and the taxes used to address the public health probs they cause. Locking up nonviolent offenders wastes money (ahh, I was wondering where my soapbox was!) I think e-cigs are a great idea. I doubt they're going to cause my asthma any problems. Hmm, maybe a nicotine aerosol inhaler would be nice for you-all, too. Y'know, I have a really lush tobacco plant growing in a 3-gallon container...It's about two feet high has footlong leaves and is about to flower. At one point, before the hurricane, tobacco was growing wild in the yard, too. I wonder if it'd be cheaper for you-all to grow your own tobacco in those hydroponic units, or inside in a grow room, like the potsmokers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stasis Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 While I do not want to get sent to the hospital or have to wear a gas mask all the time in order to accomodate smokers (have one and wear it in public on bad air days-very hard to wear in the Houston heat), I think smokers ought to have the right to smoke somewhere. I furthermore would like any tax levied on ciggies to go strictly into health care funding-and the fact that it is treated as general revenue pisses me off. I also think all drugs should be legal and the taxes used to address the public health probs they cause. Locking up nonviolent offenders wastes money (ahh, I was wondering where my soapbox was!) I think e-cigs are a great idea. I doubt they're going to cause my asthma any problems. Hmm, maybe a nicotine aerosol inhaler would be nice for you-all, too. Y'know, I have a really lush tobacco plant growing in a 3-gallon container...It's about two feet high has footlong leaves and is about to flower. At one point, before the hurricane, tobacco was growing wild in the yard, too. I wonder if it'd be cheaper for you-all to grow your own tobacco in those hydroponic units, or inside in a grow room, like the potsmokers do. Hey us indoor types need love too, Humboldt Hydroponics,YES!! I do prefer natural grown, my connection is retiring Well,I won't run out anytime soon. Like I've said before, Us Southern Humboldt Boys Love our Weed. And no, you can't have any. Stasis,tax away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Elvis Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 You could just smoke a pipe McClelland 5100, $50 a pound: http://www.smokingpipes.com/tobacco/by-mak...product_id=3983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 While I do not want to get sent to the hospital or have to wear a gas mask all the time in order to accomodate smokers (have one and wear it in public on bad air days-very hard to wear in the Houston heat), I think smokers ought to have the right to smoke somewhere. I furthermore would like any tax levied on ciggies to go strictly into health care funding-and the fact that it is treated as general revenue pisses me off. I also think all drugs should be legal and the taxes used to address the public health probs they cause. Locking up nonviolent offenders wastes money (ahh, I was wondering where my soapbox was!) I think e-cigs are a great idea. I doubt they're going to cause my asthma any problems. Hmm, maybe a nicotine aerosol inhaler would be nice for you-all, too. Y'know, I have a really lush tobacco plant growing in a 3-gallon container...It's about two feet high has footlong leaves and is about to flower. At one point, before the hurricane, tobacco was growing wild in the yard, too. I wonder if it'd be cheaper for you-all to grow your own tobacco in those hydroponic units, or inside in a grow room, like the potsmokers do. I grew up in a state that is (was, I dunno) one of the largest producers of tobacco. I do know that most smokers would not like to smoke the raw tobacco leaf, by that I mean dried and cured, because it wouldn't have all the other crap that the tobacco companies add to it to make it "mellow"... oh and then there's the filter. Most smokers can't smoke unfiltered commercial tobacco, they certainly won't like homegrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downsolong Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 When I took up smoking it was cheaper than candy bars, and not only staved off hunger pangs but comforted me in my depression, 15 years ago a carton cost me $5, after the stupid lawsuits by dead smoker's families it started inflating the price of coffin nails. Everyone knew it's not healthy to smoke although some have genes that survive it just fine, all suits groundless. Whatever, when the price inflated more I swithced to stuff your own cause I haven't worked in years but it's a pain and a damn time waster spending hours stuffing cigs that a good machine could stuff in less that a second. Suddenly now my local retail price gets tripled by a government that I thought had my best interests at heart. This is a big deal for me as was the job I lost because it went smoke free and the job opps I haven't had a chance at for the same reason. I wish I could similtainiously smoke bomb the whitehouse, national and state capital buildings country wide with skunk speew soaking all who voted for this outrageous violation of freedom, this coersive extortion, this theift of my money. Right now I get ROBBED EVERY WEEK! I may explode on some nazi anti-smoker so look out punk witch burning ass wipes. I don't even want to reply to the anti-smoker brainwashed nazi facists at the moment. Umans too easily seem be all to easily conditioned to rationalizes inhumanity to scapegoats of the moment, rational fairness has little to do with it, the blood sent gets in the water and the sharks frenzy. I will have to plant grow and process something like 400 tobacco plants to meet my 2.5 packs a day use, that's a lot of growlites. Meanwhile I am getting robbed $20/ week and not able to get work because of the demonization and systemic discrimination against smokers. This tax may kill me but I sure hope I can take out a few of the nazis before I go if this gross injustice stands during my lifetime. This is nothing short of economic eugenics. ~down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downsolong Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 What would you advocate if your meds taxes, do you pay any at all?, were increased 2200%? What would you advocate if your gas tax was increased 2200%? What would you advocate if you were sent out into the cold to take your breaks at work or denied work entirely because of how you wanted to take your breaks or what you ate? What would you advocate if you were robbed each week? What would you advocate if mental health and job concelling were denied you because of your desire for equible treatment, ie heated break rooms? What would you do if you were taxed without representation in congress or the press/media? Some have advocated violent revolution and they called themselves americans. I'm advocating immediate repeal of this injust tax, full reparations to those who have paid it, fines against those who passed it, explicit fair rights for smokers in the workplace and all public buildings encluding hospitals and clinics, jails and courthouses, schools, nursing homes; justice, fairness and reason instead of scapegoat torturing, and suggesting that however small the tyrannized by the majority scapegoated group, when injustice happens consecquences will be paid by all. Vent it if you don't like it damn it, or I hope someone vent you, quit picking on minorities causes not only isn't it right, you may find yourself in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I quit smoking about a month ago, I still think that the tax is bullshit, but if this is to pay for healthcare for people who cannot afford it in the lovely USA (a country that makes it damn near IMPOSSIBLE to pay for healthcare, that's the REAL problem, but whatever) then at least it's being used in a decent manner. If I WAS still smoking I would be a little irked by it certainly, but I'd probably think to myself "Hey, while I am sitting here killing myself slowly, now at least SOMEONE profits from it." This isn't an act against YOU as a smoker, it's an act FOR kids whose parents cannot afford healthcare for thier children. The banning it in public thing, what fucking ever man, it's pretty selfish to get your panties all in a twist over that particular thing. I personally, and even AS a smoker, feel uncomfortable taking my child into a building full of smoke. I woulof feel GUILTY smoking around an asthmatic person. I would never make the consious decision to do so, but it's not like they wear big red letter "A"s sewn onto all their garments. So, this is just MHO, but not everyone wants to be uncomfortable breathing that in. You know, there's also a law, I believe, involving some kind of rule that people wear clothing in public. Some people are more comfortable naked, some people would maybe even be comfortable naked in public. Some people might be pissed off that the government is making them spend money to buy items that cover up their private bits only so they can be uncomfortable in public. If the price of meds was increased, and one of those meds was one that kept me out of bed every day and still breathing, well, I would do the same thing I would with the cigarette tax, I would fucking pay it, because meds, like cigarettes, keep me sane. Would I ADVOCATE that? No. Would I try to fight it? YES. MEDS help me, they are necessary for life, cigarettes, while supplementing my nicotine addiction, make my lungs look like swollen, burnt sausage. And again, it's helping kids! The tax, it's helping kids! Yes it's bullshit some companies will not hire smokers, that's total fucking crap and they should be sued for that shit. I have always taken my little four minute smoking breaks in the cold. The non smoking employees don't get that four minute break. I've known people to START smoking so they could take advantage of that four minute break in the cold. You don't have to be robbed if you don't want to be. And that's my two cents. I don't smoke anymore, but even if I did, I wouldn't "fight" this tax. I would feel like an ass saying "NO! I don't WANT poor kids to get medical attention when necessary!" THE END. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayteana Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I've known people to START smoking so they could take advantage of that four minute break in the cold. lol! That's what took me from occasional smoker to daily smoker! Those damn little breaks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nalgas Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 What would you do if you were taxed without representation in congress or the press/media? Some have advocated violent revolution and they called themselves americans. You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean. Well, unless at some point voting rights were taken away from smokers, but last time I checked they'll still let you into the polls to cast your vote just fine. There's a slight difference between having an unpopular/minority opinion but still being allowed to express it, campaign for it, vote for it, etc. and having laws imposed on you by a government an ocean away that you have no say in. Also, when expressing such opinions and campaigning/protesting/agitating/whatevering for them in the hope of getting people to support you and vote in favor of your position, you may want to try sounding a little less like people like the Earth Liberation Front, who have possibly done more to hurt their proclaimed cause of environmentalism than perhaps anyone else has. See also: radical/militant/extremist <insert belief here, whether political, religious, or otherwise> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I've known people to START smoking so they could take advantage of that four minute break in the cold. lol! That's what took me from occasional smoker to daily smoker! Those damn little breaks! That's when you know the work environment is too dog eat dog. I started smoking when I was 11 years old. I was in and out of court testifying. The boys in school gave me hell. I was a nervous wreck. I'd overheard some adults state that smoking took the edge off their nerves. So I tried it. (stole a pack from a friend's mom) It worked like a fucking charm. No one was going to medicate an eleven year old for anxiety out the ass. Plus it made me "a better, more reliable witness" whatever bullshit. So yeah, I'm a smoker. I don't take a puff and beat the shit out of my family. (Like my half-brother would down the alcohol and then beat the shit out me.) But they don't tax the shit out that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null0trooper Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Notice they dont tax the fuck out of alcohol, yet it destroys and kills a fuckload of lives. Yes, they do. In the US, that's been going on since the founding of the Republic. As an export commodity with international competition, there is a limit to what can be done now to jack up the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 What would you advocate if your meds taxes, do you pay any at all?, were increased 2200%? What would you advocate if your gas tax was increased 2200%? What the fuck do taxes have to do with any of this? The local crack dealer down the street from my office isn't paying ANY taxes at all on product. (OK, he's getting some interesting indirect subsidies, but that's another discussion.) Nor are his clients. Wow. In fact, he has vastly reduced overhead; he may pay some fees to local law in terms of protection, but look at all the paperwork he doesn't file. And his product is every bit as essential as the smokes to his clientele's survival (and concentration.) What would you advocate if you were sent out into the cold to take your breaks at work or denied work entirely because of how you wanted to take your breaks or what you ate? Hahahaha. Oh, I am so the wrong person with whom to take this particular path. Honeybunny, do you have to go "out into the cold?" Gut it out. I'd love a break. In the cold. I live in the north. It's really cold. I like my non-smoke breaks - the cold centers me. I go hang out with the smokers to catch up on the gossip. And, depending on how I wanted to take my breaks, yes, depending on my job, I might well expect to be denied employment. Welcome to Grownupland. It sucks here, sometimes. What would you advocate if you were robbed each week?Well, if I were being robbed each week, I'd go to the police. If I were participating in voluntary taxation of the health-statistically impaired, I'd say, "Huh, maybe I should explore other options, like the e-cigs." If I didn't know the definition of robbery, I'd probably learn how to use Google. What would you advocate if mental health and job concelling were denied you because of your desire for equible treatment, ie heated break rooms?You mean in the way that my employer offers heated outside smoke huts, free smoking cessation classes, free nicotine replacement therapy, etc.? What would you do if you were taxed without representation in congress or the press/media? Some have advocated violent revolution and they called themselves americans.1. What Nalgas said. I passed Civics, and it looks like he did too. Did you? 2. And some have advocated violent revolution and just been assholes. And some have been members of le Parti Quebecois (OK, overlap.) And some have been members of the Shining Path. Did you, like, have a point, or were you just being vaguely all "viva la revolucion?" I'm advocating immediate repeal of this injust tax, full reparations to those who have paid it, fines against those who passed it, explicit fair rights for smokers in the workplace and all public buildings encluding hospitals and clinics, jails and courthouses, schools, nursing homes; justice, fairness and reason instead of scapegoat torturing, and suggesting that however small the tyrannized by the majority scapegoated group, when injustice happens consecquences will be paid by all. Reparations. Giggle. You're cute. I have some reparations I'd like too. Perhaps the months of work I lost caring for family members with lung cancer and emphysema. We'll have to figure out how much life/work experience I gained from that, of course. Huh. Now why would hospitals and clinics and nursing homes be different from other public buildings? Don't the sick, elderly, and infirm have a right to smoke 'em if they got 'em? Jail, hey, sure, they're trapped there (or the [edited] poster wants them to suffer.) Schools? Why not? What's the problem? Now let's move on to something fun. Ammunition prices are through the roof. Has anyone else noticed? And check this out. I bought a box to go sight in a rifle for my niece today and it's already not a casual little pocket change affair anymore. (OK, lithium tremor complicates that.) I don't even want to know what it's going to cost in August. Ignoring the Obama hysteria (believe me, ammunition has been damned expensive since Iraq/Afghanistan started), this is annoying. Probably not 1/100th as annoying as you guys and your smokes. Although, hell, if there are going to be a lot of pissed off smokers out there... I guess it's a good thing it's harder for them to reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdjeff Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 "Huh. Now why would hospitals and clinics and nursing homes be different from other public buildings? Don't the sick, elderly, and infirm have a right to smoke 'em if they got 'em? Jail, hey, sure, they're trapped there (or the OP wants them to suffer.) Schools? Why not? What's the problem?" Um, Silver, where did I insinuate that I wanted anyone to suffer? Not that I'm too fond of people in jail, but really. Where did you get that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I don't think silver is referring to you necessary, you see, your thread got hi-jacked by the "anti-smoking" nazi and I think that they probably thought that guy was the OP, not you. I was surprised to find that out myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 whoops, yes, not you, jbq. I should have said the NOP. a thousand apologies. [mortification.] I'll go edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickler Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Companies do have an economic incentive to get rid of the sick or the more likely to become sick. It's because of our fucked-up "healthcare" system. This doesn't only motivate some companies to try to keep out smokers, they're likely to try to keep out us fat folks, alcoholics, illegal drug users and the chronically ill, if they can. I'm carrying around about ninety extra pounds or so (although I like to tell myself I don't look it), and I seem to remember a survey reported on by the Wall Street Journal, in which employers said they were likely to try not to hire obese people because of the potential health insurance costs to their companies. My friend used to work at Borders Bookstore, which does offer health insurance. However, when he called in sick, it was treated as an unexcused absence, and after enough diabetes-caused absences, he was fired. This policy was probably set up to get rid of people with health problems. On another note: I heard on NPR this morning that a study on the effects of nicotine proves that nicotine moderates the anger response. I'm thinking about laying in a supply of nicorette gum for when my brother pisses me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayteana Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 the "anti-smoking" nazi lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kablume Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I just want to jump in real quick and say CONGRATS to Emperor for your stop smoking success! Ok, back to your regularly scheduled program. Thank you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdjeff Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 whoops, yes, not you, jbq. I should have said the NOP. a thousand apologies. [mortification.] I'll go edit. No problem at all. Thanks for clearing that up. I was like, "what? I just wanted to start a conversation here." Threadjackers suck. those e cigarettes are pretty interesting. if my little plan of sugar free suckers and weaning down doesn't work, (and so far it hasn't) I'll look into those. Pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Companies do have an economic incentive to get rid of the sick or the more likely to become sick. It's because of our fucked-up "healthcare" system. This doesn't only motivate some companies to try to keep out smokers, they're likely to try to keep out us fat folks, alcoholics, illegal drug users and the chronically ill, if they can. I'm carrying around about ninety extra pounds or so (although I like to tell myself I don't look it), and I seem to remember a survey reported on by the Wall Street Journal, in which employers said they were likely to try not to hire obese people because of the potential health insurance costs to their companies. My friend used to work at Borders Bookstore, which does offer health insurance. However, when he called in sick, it was treated as an unexcused absence, and after enough diabetes-caused absences, he was fired. This policy was probably set up to get rid of people with health problems. I think there is plenty of other anti-fat bias in our society. It may be socially framed in terms of health insurance, but it's often plain stigma. And as far as unexcused absences... it may have been a policy to get rid of people with health problems, sure. On the other hand, well, I've been the scheduler/director who's had to deal with the surprise absences, and I've been (currently am) the coworker who's had to cover, and the director who's had to handle the bitching from the coworkers who had to cover and the resignations from the coworkers who had to cover repeatedly, and then I've had to recruit and hire... and I've been the absent person (and I also know that it resulted in at least one person resigning because of overwork.) FMLA allows a certain amount of grace now, with the right conditions, but there are requirements as far as length of employment, etc. eta: and yes, Emperor, congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Hey thanks guys!! I might resume some kind of nicotine habit if those e-cigs aren't too terribly bad for a person. I really do love smoking and am often sad I had to give it up But it's deadly and all that jazz, had to be done But those e-cigs. . .hmmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olga Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Emperor, I'm watching you..... :) heh olga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I knew that somehow, olga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellmate Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I don't hate smokers or begrudge them their right to smoke. However I have 2 words for you: bodily integrity. If you're infringing on my right to bodily integrity you better back the eff off because then you lose your rights. You do NOT have a right to infringe on my bodily integrity. Smoking in designated areas is chill though. Because then I knew it was an area that would have smoking and made a choice to go into it. Paying taxes suck for everyone. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 As a little kid who grew up learning to type and chat with Daddy's graduate students on DARPAnet... not to mention spending many hours in twisty little passages, all alike... my understanding is that "taxes" are most of why the infrastructure that now supports, uh, this board is here. Um, come to think of it, maybe I wasn't supposed to be using gummint resources that way? forget I said anything... there wasn't such a thing as university day care back then. So paying taxes is unpleasant, yes. I had to write a really large check to the IRS this year. Preparing the taxes bites tinfoil. But saying "taxes suck" is kind of broad and simplistic for someone who has a really well-defined concept of, say, bodily integrity. I like my roads and CDC and all that fun stuff; those things don't suck, but they aren't free. (Disclosure/conflict of interest: about 30-40% of my income comes from public funding sources, one way or another, so, yes, I guess I'm part of the problem.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellmate Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 By taxes suck I meant paying taxes, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downsolong Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 This tax and the people bans are based on lies and discrimination for profit of the companies selling the patches gum and now ecigs. Those of you who support and laugh about these evil laws and vidictive taxes are complicitus in that evil that people are suffering, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Secondhand smoke doesn't fen hurt you worth complaining about unless you are so sick you should live in a bubble anyway. Read up if you're still smirking and laughing, while I and 30 million other smokers are being robbed. The poorest like me have been hit hardest by this latest outragously vindictive tax that takes food out of our mouths. yah you just keep laughing it up and keep telling yourselves you're not evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downsolong Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm sorry you are so aflicted with that illness, and I'm sorry parents die. But robbing people of jobs, money, and making them second class citizens is just plain wrong and not dissimalar to what the nazis did to the jews. Hitler also outlawed smoking btw. see the statment you quoted. It's not smoker's fault you have ashma anymore than it's peanut lovers fault some people have deadly allergies to peanuts. The number of smokers has gone way down while the number of ashmatics has gone way up, think about it, and stay out of smokey rooms. or insist on adequite ventalation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayteana Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 But robbing people of jobs, money, and making them second class citizens is just plain wrong and not dissimalar to what the nazis did to the jews. Hitler also outlawed smoking btw. I want to kill anti-smoker extortionists. Anti-smokers are the problems, kill a few for me and stuff their extortionist asses with the patches. I wish I could similtainiously smoke bomb the whitehouse, national and state capital buildings country wide with skunk speew I don't even want to reply to the anti-smoker brainwashed nazi facists at the moment. the "anti-smoking" nazi yah you just keep laughing it up and keep telling yourselves you're not evil. Signed, Evil laughing May Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downsolong Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 violence some of the lost jobs [link=http://www.nycclash.com/CaseAgainstBans/OSHA.html"'>http://www.nycclash.com/CaseAgainstBans/OSHA.html" target="_blank]http://www.nycclash.com/CaseAgainstBans/OSHA.html[/link] [link=http://www.smokingaloud.com/discriminate.html"'>http://www.smokingaloud.com/discriminate.html" target="_blank]http://www.smokingaloud.com/discriminate.html[/link] [link=http://ryorevolution.com/ryo-schip-table.html"'>http://ryorevolution.com/ryo-schip-table.html" target="_blank]http://ryorevolution.com/ryo-schip-table.html[/link] [link=http://www.smokinglobby.com/sitemap/"'>http://www.smokinglobby.com/sitemap/" target="_blank]http://www.smokinglobby.com/sitemap/[/link] [link=http://www.tv.com/South+Park/Butt+Out/episode/287335/recap.html" target="_blank]http://www.tv.com/South+Park/Butt+Out/epis...7335/recap.html[/link] [link=http://www.velvetgloveironfist.com/index.php?page_id=52"'>http://www.velvetgloveironfist.com/index.php?page_id=52" target="_blank]http://www.velvetgloveironfist.com/index.php?page_id=52[/link] [link=http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3475" target="_blank]http://www.smokersclubinc.com/modules.php?...le&sid=3475[/link] [link=http://www.schaler.net/moralhygienebyschaler.pdf"'>http://www.schaler.net/moralhygienebyschaler.pdf" target="_blank]http://www.schaler.net/moralhygienebyschaler.pdf[/link] [link=http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FACT_CHECK_FDA_TOBACCO?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT" target="_blank]http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FAC...EMPLATE=DEFAULT[/link] [link=http://www.geocities.com/americansall/"'>http://www.geocities.com/americansall/" target="_blank]http://www.geocities.com/americansall/[/link] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I have three vices: swearing, masturbation and smoking. And I'd be willing to give-up masturbation to keep the other two. That's not a whole lot of vices and I don't think that they're /all that/ terrible. It's not like I fucking kick puppies, drown kitties and shake babies and call it a day. I'm even willing to make a move over to some fake-ass, lame-o fucking "e-cig" just to get people off my fucking ass and not have to pay an arm and a fucking leg in goddamn taxes to get my fix. (although the FDA may not even allow me that much longer, since it's not a "cessation" device) But I accepted my fate a long time ago. I've /touched/ a smoker's lung. (I was 12. It was a *scare* program. They took us up to Oklahoma Osteopathic Hospital.) I took care of my mother through her death from lung cancer. (she never smoked a day in her life, never worked around smoker's, I never smoked around her) If anyone knows up-close and goddamn personal what's going to happen, it's me. I know, I've accepted it, I'm not afraid. I'm just tired of the way the whole health standard is placed on people. Oh it's socially ok to drink, you're not an idiot to do /that/, but you're fucking *retarded* if you smoke. You can completely blitz your liver every fucking night, run over little old ladies and beat your kid sister, just don't light up and you can be considered a goddamn genius *and* get your fucking liver replaced. Twice. (as long as you have money and power) But I'm sure the alkies bitched just as much when they ok'd prohibition. And we all know how well that worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophelia Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Oh, and this is coming from someone who has been smoking on and off since I was 12 - currently on. I am busy doing something called getting ready for work, even if it is only part time because that is all I can do due to a very bad injury I have sustained at the moment, but I just had to say this... But robbing people of jobs, money, and making them second class citizens is just plain wrong and not dissimalar to what the nazis did to the jews. How fucking DARE you. Seriously. How motherfucking dare you compare no smoking signs and some taxes on cigarettes to antisemitism and genocide. It is bad enough that you are here littering our board. Don't be more of a fucking zealot douche. Signed, The smoking granddaughter of a woman who was, along with her sister, the ONLY SURVIVORS in their ENTIRE immediate AND extended family of the Holocaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaRufina Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I used to smoke. I haven't in about three years [more than that, but I don't know exactly so I'll say three years to be fair]. My grandmother died from lung cancer. I started smoking anyway. I guess I wasn't old enough for it to "sink in" or I wasn't smart enough to pick up on it. [because we all know I'm a fucking moron, right?] I'm not sure why I started smoking. I think I just wanted to try it and then the way the nicotine made me feel was awesome. One of my friends' doctors said nicotine is an amazing drug but the popular method of delivery is the problem. If I could have nicotine in a pill, I would. I don't think we should be banning smoking outright. Hell I'm in the "Live free or die" state and we did it. What does that mean? I DO think, though, that people have the right to clean air and get annoyed when, for example, people at my school ignore the no smoking signs and smoke right in front of the doors so I have to walk through the smoke. [no it's not like a pleasant memory or anything. Though now and then I do wish I could have a cigarette.] That 200, 500 feet whatever from buildings should be enforced and that CLOSED OFF smoking sections are viable. As far as the taxing goes: It's always something. I don't think the heft of it is particularly fair, but I do think it'll come around to something else soon enough. Not saying "tough shit, suck it up" but more like someone else'll get it in the ass soon enough. I bet there'll be a movie about it. ETA: The persecution preoccupation and threats of violence going on in this thread are both getting old. Very Very Old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 DSL, please stop misusing the term "robbing." It's needless and ineffective melodrama. You're being as "robbed" as crack users are when dealers raise the price of crack, as bourbon drinkers are when the price of booze goes up, as anyone is who pays for Lexapro, and as I was when I paid for the boxed set of the last season of the Wire. If your local smoke shop is actually holding you at gunpoint to pay, you should probably find a new merchant. Robbery is, and I hate wiki refs, but this is as good a time as any, the taking the property of another by means of force or fear. Physical compulsion - the assault or battery component - isn't involved. As Maddy said, Prohibition didn't work out. Don't like it? Vote. Enough with the vaguely threatening crap. Speaking of needless and ineffective. There are several position statements supporting the e-cigs, by the way, asking that they NOT be pulled, arguing that any NRT is a better option. I keep meaning to pull them together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downsolong Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 You anti-smokers can keep showing your bigotry, ignorance, and intolerance to opinions and comparisons that you don't want made or you can read the links I've posted. The extreamists are the anti-smoker propaganda inspired laws, policies, and vindictive sin taxes. Some of you are under the delusion that the US is a democracy where we all have equal voice, that just isn't so, money mussles freedom and writes laws in a system as corrupt as it's ever been. The media parrots whatever propaganda machine buys their attention, facts and justice be damned. How fucking dare you prohibit me and 10s of millions of others from work, tax the hell out of us, and prohibit me and others from healthcare and continue to promote Himmler style lies justifing your esculating persecution. Many a smoker has died having either been murdered outright by extreamist aniti-smokers or been deined treatment by doctors and hospitals, or from unhealthy conditions compulserly suffered exposed to inclement weather. Outright mass murder and genicide isn't needed to draw valid comparisons to how the Jews were set up for their persecution. In march I paid $10 a week for tobacco, as of april I pay $30 a week due to this new robber state tax enforced by federal law with the backing of the military and police threats of violence, I call that extortion and will not call it otherwise. Thats $2000/year extortion from an increasingly unemployable person do to the system discrimination, hysteria and bigotry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaRufina Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 How fucking dare you prohibit me and 10s of millions of others from work, tax the hell out of us, and prohibit me and others from healthcare and continue to promote Himmler style lies justifing your esculating persecution. "You"? Who is "you"? Who's prohibiting you from work? Healthcare? Me? Is it Silver? Is it sdjeff? Because you know he started the thread, he's quite a suspicious fellow. And I'm sorry, who exactly is persecuting you? This time? Didn't quite catch that. Maybe you could go over it again. Wait, is it everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nalgas Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Ugh. And smokers wonder why they get no sympathy. Ok, here's the thing. I was born with a god given right to breathe. My own personal health issues aside, cigarette smoke is harmful to those even without respiratory problems. I know smokers don't want to hear it or believe it and from what I can tell they don't seem to give a rat's ass as long as they can get their fix without a single inconvenience. Most of them seem pretty god damn self centered (I didn't say ALL), at least when it comes to their addiction. Not to mention, next time you're at a stoplight look over on the shoulder of the road at the piles and piles of cigarette butts. Yeah, lots of people litter...even nonsmokers but smokers have to be one of the most littering demographics. Again, me me me. The world revolves around me cause I need this chemical in my body so everyone make accommodations for ME! Wrong. Breathing is normal. We are born with the need to do it. There is nothing wrong with me wanting to breathe. Smokers on the other hand, are engaging in a completely unnatural activity. They are the one with the problem... the addiction. They are the ones that should be inconvenienced not the rest of us that don't have that monkey on our back. As far as the tax, I couldn't give a fuck. Honestly do not care. But this thread turned into a discussion about smoker's rights versus the rest of us so... there ya go. ~A former smoker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Mayteana- you crack me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'M NOT EVIL! NO NOT ME! IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO WANT POOR KIDS TO HAVE MEDICAL ATTENTION IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT! THAT'S WHAT SOUNDS FUCKING EVIL! IT'S THE ASTHMATIC PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BREATHE CLEAN AIR THOSE FUCKING ASSHOLES! IT'S THE SICK LITTLE KIDS THAT NEED MEDICAL ATTENTION AND REGULAR CHECK UPS AND BOOSTED SHOTS! THE BASTARDS! OH MY GOD! I CAN'T KEEP MY COOL SURROUNDED BY ALL THIS EVIL! Maybe if I smoke a cigarette I'll die ten seconds sooner and be able to escape this evil nightmare world I am living in that much sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellmate Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Exactly Beetle, which goes back to what I was saying about Bodily Integrity. As for DSL's "links" here's a few for you, DSL, from CREDIBLE sources. See, there's a difference between things posted on the interwebs by anyone and things that have credibility. http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422 (^ that one even has all of it's scientific studies sourced for you) http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9O0E/b.39857/ (this one talks about what susan was saying and the whole second-hand smoke, children, asthma thing) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...eandHealth/home (unbiased news source) http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/ETS (national cancer society) Ok, now when you come back with CREDIBLE sources that prove all of these sources to be incorrect, we can talk. Until then, smoking infringes on my right to bodily integrity which means you lose the right to do it around me. Amazing how that works, isn't it? And please PLEASE do not site something from the Center for Indoor Air Research. We all know they work for Phillip Morris and also know that they have never done a CREDIBLE study... well... ever. If you even knew who the Center for Indoor Air Research was... which from your links from above, I doubt. Your sources are all from incrediably biased sites, lol. Comparing anti-smokers to Hilter and nazi's is.... well disgusting. Very very disgusting. You have the right to free speech and can say it if you want, but you're alienating a lot of people and there's no way that type of attitude is going to bring anyone to your cause. Unless you can debate in a tasteful manner with less hate and more facts... I would bow out of this one now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillech Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I smoke Ok, and I have to say, DSL is a disgrace to those of us who do. I don't want to infringe on anyones right to be healthy. So when I smoke outside in public, I do so 20 feet away from the door. Am I being discriminated against? No. We ALL know smoking is bad for you and those around you. You can't shake the stick any other way, DSL. He is an idea. Instead of bitching about having to pay the taxes (which are going for children who don't have health insurance) why don't you get help and stop smoking. If you don't want to quit, the stfu about the taxes. YOU make the choice to pay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMarshall Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Hitler also outlawed smoking btw. Downsolong.... Have you no shame? YOU ARE SMEARING EVEN THE NAZI'S AND FASCISTS WITH YOUR LIES. Jeez. Hitler DID NOT outlaw smoking or cigarettes. The German medical establishment had an antismoking campaign beginning around 1932 but cigarette production continued. Bulgaria increased its tobacco production dramatically through the 30's to 1945 to meet German demand. NOW, why do you keep bringing up FASCISM? What does it have to do with the US tobacco policy and taxes? Fascism generally includes centralized economic planning and some portion of nationalization of industries. NEITHER situation has ocurred in the US, neither direction of cigaratte production quotas, tobacco product types, nor has the US government seized control of any tobacco company. The tobacco support program for farmers is essentially the same since the 40's [my family held a production quota for over 50 years until recently]. Lay off the Fascists, you are giving them a bad name. -Do a little research before stating 'facts'. -You say 'many' smokers have been killed for being smokers. One. Give me a link to one credible public report of such a murder. -You say 'many' smokers are refused medical treatment. Where? For what? -You say 'many' smokers have died from being forced outside in inclement weather. Where? Why? I haven't noticed bodies stacked on doorsteps with cigarettes smouldering in their fingers. I grow weary of breaking the thin reeds you use for swords.... Bottom line: The democratically elected congress increased taxes to reduce tobacco use, a goal deemed to be in the public interest. They also placed a horrendous tax on Freon R-12 used in the airconditioning of my last car, to reduce greenhouse gases, a goal deemed to be in the public interest. You cigarette tax is a pittance in comparison. Tobacco taxes are much higher in Europe and have been for a long time. Suck it up (hah) or grow your own tobacco. That is still legal. a.m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Many a smoker has died having either been murdered outright by extreamist aniti-smokers or been deined treatment by doctors and hospitals, or from unhealthy conditions compulserly suffered exposed to inclement weather. Outright mass murder and genicide isn't needed to draw valid comparisons to how the Jews were set up for their persecution. In march I paid $10 a week for tobacco, as of april I pay $30 a week due to this new robber state tax enforced by federal law with the backing of the military and police threats of violence, I call that extortion and will not call it otherwise. Thats $2000/year extortion from an increasingly unemployable person do to the system discrimination, hysteria and bigotry. 1. OK, I am pretty fucking hardcore about the smoking, and I haven't MURDERED anyone. Quite the opposite. 2. I am going to go way out on a limb here and speculate that there may be other reasons you're not getting hired, possibly relating to your interpersonal skills, catastrophizing, tendency towards hyperbole/threats/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withing Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm just tired of the way the whole health standard is placed on people. Oh it's socially ok to drink, you're not an idiot to do /that/, but you're fucking *retarded* if you smoke. You can completely blitz your liver every fucking night, run over little old ladies and beat your kid sister, just don't light up and you can be considered a goddamn genius *and* get your fucking liver replaced. Twice. (as long as you have money and power) But I'm sure the alkies bitched just as much when they ok'd prohibition. And we all know how well that worked out. Actually, I think people who kill their liver are just as dumb as people who kill their lungs. However, it's their choice, so I leave both of them be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downsolong Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I posted to this thread to support it's starter and voice my own anger at an unjust tax, and suggest that anger isn't misplaced by smokers who's rights have been incrementally take for 50 years. I do think non smokers have rights too but not nearly to the extent they've gone which amounts to systemic discrimination. Stealing money from the sick, poor, and weak, many who don't have healthcare themselves can hardly be justified to provide healthcare for kids. It's been an interesting thread similar to others I've seen in different contexts. The pattern has been diagramed and might be of interest to those who are farmilar with , minirities stuggles against prejudice, group think, and cult behavior. While the propaganda is so thick and slimey from all sides it is hard to tell what's fact and whats lies, so I have to make my best guess. The pattern is clear. Stand up to the group think cult assumptions and personal attacks will quickly follow with much piling on and little interest in listening. Again and again people have been incredulus, insulted, hurt, outraged, it's quite typical behavior. I site links of sources and ideas and they aren't read or discounted. Then the pattern repeats. I didn't make any personal attacks, with the possible paraphrasing of ophilia who attacked me. I'm all for sorting out the science but as it's clearly religion to ainti-smokers zealotry blinds them to it. I will leave this thread to those who care to repeat their embarrassing bigotry and ignorance with a couple of more links that discribe the situation as I see it. It's not surprising that some smokers and exsmokers are among the mob of personal attackers to quote from a different context about the same behavior: "Research shows that cultural prejudices tend even to penetrate into members of the target group. Blacks tend to show more anti-black prejudice than anti-white prejudice. Women tend to see even other women in stereotypical roles. Cultures that deny women any number of liberties and freedoms would not be able to continue to do so without the active cooperation of the wo men in that culture in perpetuating those institutions. This tendency of a target group to take to heart society's expressed attitudes towards them helps to explain why the suicide rate among teenage homosexuals is so much higher than it is among teenagers in general. In their case, society's prejudices are internalized as self-hatred. It takes a great deal of courage and strong sense of self to stand up to a whole culture and say, "You are wrong." We are disposed to adopt the values that surround us, not reject them." behavior pattern of cults smokers with additude conclusion by Christopher Hitchens I have not intentionally told any lies, I don't do that as a general rule, if I've over simplified or been mistake about anything I've said, it was unintentional. Peace with Justice and Human Rights for All~Down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophelia Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 The pattern is clear. Stand up to the group think cult assumptions and personal attacks will quickly follow with much piling on and little interest in listening. Again and again people have been incredulus, insulted, hurt, outraged, it's quite typical behavior. I site links of sources and ideas and they aren't read or discounted. Then the pattern repeats. I didn't make any personal attacks, with the possible paraphrasing of ophilia who attacked me. I'm all for sorting out the science but as it's clearly religion to ainti-smokers zealotry blinds them to it. I will leave this thread to those who care to repeat their embarrassing bigotry and ignorance with a couple of more links that discribe the situation as I see it. That's classic. Poor you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I'm sorry you are so aflicted with that illness, and I'm sorry parents die. But robbing people of jobs, money, and making them second class citizens is just plain wrong and not dissimalar to what the nazis did to the jews. Hitler also outlawed smoking btw. see the statment you quoted. It's not smoker's fault you have ashma anymore than it's peanut lovers fault some people have deadly allergies to peanuts. The number of smokers has gone way down while the number of ashmatics has gone way up, think about it, and stay out of smokey rooms. or insist on adequite ventalation. I hereby invoke Godwin's law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is an informal adage created by Mike Godwin in 1990. The adage states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1. There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[2] than others invented later.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle itself is frequently referred to as Godwin's Law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful (this is sometimes referred to as "Quirk's Exception"). It's funny how often arguments on the innernets inevitably end up with a Hitler/Nazi analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withing Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I hereby invoke Godwin's law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law Holy crap! I'd forgotten about that! Good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 This is ridiculous. I don't care if people smoke, people should smoke if they want to. It was a better idea to have designated indoor smoking areas than to ban it all together indoors, but hell, people DO have allergies and asthma. I only had time to check out the first link, but there aren't any sources listed for the horror stories posted on the first link. I'm sorry, I lied. I checked out the first link, deemed it ridiculous and unreliable and decided against viewing of any of the other links because they too are likely just as unreliable. If there are links for newspaper articles including these stories AND the reasons for the deaths/rapes/guts and gore related to anti-smoking extremeists(WTF? Is there such thing?) then I'd like to see those, maybe that should have been the last link on the list. But as a cult member and a conformist, I did what I KNEW the other members of my "cult" would do, I clicked the first link, which was ridiculous, and therefore, having a tiny brain influenced by the Big Ant- Smoking Cult Leader, I assumed that the rest of the links were also as ridiculous, like our leader would have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Many a smoker has died having either been murdered outright by extreamist aniti-smokers or been deined treatment by doctors and hospitals, or from unhealthy conditions compulserly suffered exposed to inclement weather. This is so inappropriate, and I should so not be giggling, but, honey, if someone wanted to kill the smokers faster, don't you think they'd just... reduce the tax? And give out free smokes? OK, I'll wait while you work through it. sheesh, doesn't anyone remember the great crack conspiracy theories? otherwise, I second the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickler Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 DSL I worked with a guy last year who chewed tobacco constantly, sometimes in the same truck cab as myself. I had absolutely no problem w-it. I believe chew is a lot cheaper, and most companies, as long as you deal with the spit tidily, probably wouldn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Many a smoker has died having either been murdered outright by extreamist aniti-smokers or been deined treatment by doctors and hospitals, or from unhealthy conditions compulserly suffered exposed to inclement weather. This is so inappropriate, and I should so not be giggling, but, honey, if someone wanted to kill the smokers faster, don't you think they'd just... reduce the tax? And give out free smokes? OK, I'll wait while you work through it. sheesh, doesn't anyone remember the great crack conspiracy theories? otherwise, I second the Emperor. tee hee. Or we anti-smoking Nazis would be advocating the addition of stronger chemicals into cigarettes so they'd kill people faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nalgas Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I believe chew is a lot cheaper, and most companies, as long as you deal with the spit tidily, probably wouldn't care. I'm not sure if it's a regional thing or what, but at least around here, most people at least grudgingly tolerate smokers at work, as long as they step outside to do it, but people get some of the dirtiest looks I've ever seen if they chew tobacco in public. I am not exaggerating when I say people glare at them like they just kicked their puppy or ate their baby or something. It's just one of those things that people don't do around here, to the extent that I probably see no more than one person do it in public every year or two, probably at least partly due to the kind of reaction they get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdjeff Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 Naw, never mind. I got nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nalgas Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 This thread has inspired me to do some reading, and I've found some fascinating (to a dork like me) stuff about how tobacco/nicotine work in the brain and addiction/withdrawal and stuff. I have started a separate thread in the appropriate place for it, if anyone's in a psychopharmacological mood. If not, please disregard. Also, if anyone tries to hijack it like happened with this one (sorry sdjeff et al. who were being totally reasonable at the beginning), I will kick you in the junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazynotstupid Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I think perhaps some folks don't understand taxes or the CHIP/SCHIP program. Dunno how it stands now, but the children's health insurance program has insured "poor" families making in excess of $200k a year and higher. Gosh, I wish I was that poor, and damn I wish your taxes would subsidize my health care. Oh, fucking wait--they do. The last time you filled up your tank with gas, you contributed a teeny bit to my paycheck. I thnk you. See, as a guv'mint worker, I understand taxes and fees. I really do, after years in "the business". My agency really lovews our state's senior senator--he really brings home the bacon. So anyway. I had been planning on quitting the ol' cig thing. I walked into the store a bit back, to pick up my $22 bag of tobaccy. BUT it rang up at $69. WTF??? Now you tell me you walk into somewhere and buy something you get every day and it triples in price. Cuz the guv'mint says "it's for the kids". (yeah, well, show me where the money's really going) You're gonna be PISSED. I ain't ready to quit YET. Don't give me no scare shit. My mom likes to say "your grandma died of lung cancer"--yeah, at 82, after 65+ years of smoking. My grandpa smoked til 80, quit, and we don't know how he died, but it wasn't cancer. Can't scare me, the only thing that scares me is the fucking price. And it ain't all for the kids--it's that damn smoking "agreement", and the tobacco companies that didn't sign on were forced to raise their prices in separate agreements. If private companies had reached a cartel agreemnet like the one the States' attorney generals came to, it would have been a racketerring violation or somesuch. But it has the guv'mint imprimatur so it's OK, and hey, it's to cover Medicaid costs, so there. Bugger all that I could be using the money to pay my bills. Or stimulate the economy. (BTW, if smokers start quitting in droves, where's the money for kids' health insurance going to come from? Good thing guv'mints got this legalized addiction racket; God forbid they legalize crack!) Smokers. Fat people. Christians. Conservatives. The last few that you can truly victimize and get away with it. Shit, I can't even drive around with an open container anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karin Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I quit smoking about 14 months ago. I love all the free, undiluted air pollution I breathe! I have loads more money in my pocket - to buy booze and drink my fill, after which I get in behind the steering wheel of my car and drive like hell, endangering the lives of many other road users along with me - choose: Me smoking, or me drinking? I could have travelled around the world four times (exageration) to smoky cities with the money I burnt up and inhaled. Our government taxes ciggies to probably tripple the actual cost - it is easy money for them, because they know that smokers are addicted, and will pay. Same as any other addictive, uncontrolled substance. Easy money, because people will pay to feed the addiction. Like heroine. I paid for quite a few Mercedes Benz's for quite a few government officials, while I drive a small, small little car. I should do the maths, but I can't concentrate long enough - nicotene-addled brain? I know we all have to die in SOME way - I actually would rather try to minimise my chances to die while sucking air from an oxygen cilinder. (Above water, that is.) Image, doll, image. But if you find out for a fact that the world will end in 5 days? Please call me on (+555) 555 55555 So that I can go and draw every single cent I can lay my hand on, to go and buy tobacco by the ton, and smoke, smoke, smoke to my heart's content!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Another reason I will continue to smoke or at least use nicotine. So I wont become a self-righteous, holier-than-thou ex-smoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesireArmed Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 - choose: Me smoking, or me drinking? How about driving.. Another reason I will continue to smoke or at least use nicotine. So I wont become a self-righteous, holier-than-thou ex-smoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null0trooper Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Another reason I will continue to smoke or at least use nicotine. So I wont become a self-righteous, holier-than-thou ex-smoker. Nah. You can always be a smoker who just doesn't smoke (for whatever reason you choose - and people *have* to accept it ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazynotstupid Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Another reason I will continue to smoke or at least use nicotine. So I wont become a self-righteous, holier-than-thou ex-smoker. Amen. sister, except that it is a constant struggle between that and going John Galt and denying the guv'mint their damn taxes. At least if I quit, I will ALWAYS support the right to smoke. And may I add, that so long as their is no "Twinkie tax" and especially no retroactive Twinkie tax, non-smokers, ex-smokers, et al have NO RIGHT to bitch cause fat folk cost Medicare probably as much or more than smokers do. And you will die before you tax my fat and my sugar. (Oh wait, you already tax my sugar--it's called a "tariff") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophelia Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I need a fucking cig whenever I see this thread pop up again. heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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