I have GOT to sleep!

[daisy]

I take my prescribed 30mg Restoril and 1 mg Xanax at about 10:00 while lying in bed. (I've heard that you're not supposed to take Xanax every night or for insomnia at all -- don't know if that's true or not -- but my pdoc prescribed it this way because I have racing thoughts when I'm trying to go to bed. I just CAN'T stop thinking, so the Xanax helps relieve the thinking and worrying and anxiety.) Anyways, I generally take them between 10-11, hoping to fall asleep before midnight. They seem to kick in VERY quickly, and make me EXHAUSTED. But no matter how exhausted I get, I just CANNOT SLEEP. I lay in bed until around 5:00 when I finally pass out. I've tried taking the medications earlier, per pdoc's suggestion, but the problem is that they DO kick in quickly, and so I'm just tired for the rest of the night, and it doesn't help me fall asleep. I know anybody in the sleep forum knows how hellish it is to be incredibly exhausted but not be able to fall asleep no matter what you do.

When I fall asleep, I'm ASLEEP. I'm generally knocked out and only wake up to very loud things. Apparently, my incredibly loud alarms are no longer loud enough. I've always had problems with alarms -- I usually have to set them 2-3 hours before I want to wake, because I press snooze for that long. (I'm so lucky my roommate for the last two years in the sorority house was a morning person and was always awake before my alarms went off!!! I'm a horrible roommate.) On Sunday, I set 6 alarms. 4 on my phone, one on the LOUD iPod alarm next to my bed, and two on my loud beeping alarm across the room. (I like to put this one across the room, because it will snooze for as long as I press the snooze button, and I'm less likely to get up to press snooze a billion times.) I usually set them in 5 minute increments to annoy me an incredible amount. However, I must have gotten up and turned the alarms off, because I don't remember ever hearing them. I didn't wake to the bazillion calls on my phone from my family, since I was supposed to be with them for Mother's Day. I didn't wake up until 5:00 PM!!!

Luckily, waking up that late a pretty rare occurrence, and I'm usually fine if I set 6 alarms about 2-3 hours before I'm supposed to wake, but things like that are beginning to happen more often... probably at least 4 times a week. I'm sure it has something to do with my depression, which worsened over this semester, even though it's getting better. It also probably has to do with stress -- I'm graduating, and many of my friends are moving back to their homes across the country, or going to law school or grad school, or have awesome jobs, while I haven't found ANY JOB, despite daily searching. I'm upset about having to move back home and not being as successful as the other girls in my sorority, even though I have good grades and a good resume, so I know it's not my fault. (Damn you, economy and hiring freezes.) There's A LOT that can contribute to my current sleep problems, but recognizing the things that are exacerbating my sleep issue isn't making it go away. I've been sleeping until at least 1-2 on nearly a daily basis, and that's just too late for me.

I do understand that I'm still kind of young (23), so my sleep schedule probably hasn't matured to what it's going to be. I know teens usually have a schedule like this and perhaps I haven't grown out of mine yet (though it has actually seemed to get worse...). I also know that I am just NOT a morning person, so there may always be some problems in the sleep area for me. But laying in bed for 7-8 hours before I go to sleep, then sleeping through most of the day is NOT okay with me.

I've gone back to some previous prescriptions in the past couple of weeks just to test them out again -- Trazadone and Ambien CR. Same problems. (I cannot go back to Sonata or Seroquel, as they both made me hallucinate and have delusions. In fact, my suicide attempt was driven by Sonata! Very scary, as I was on low dosages. Lunesta never did anything for me. My mom's lorazepam (is that Ativan?) did help me one night a while back, so maybe I'll try that again.)

Does anybody have any suggestions for new pills I could try? It's possible that the Restoril has simply pooped out on me. My pdoc says that he has patients on up to 60 mg at night, but I know that's a very high dosage. I'll, of course, try it, but it seems like the higher the dosage of meds I take, the more I'm knocked out the next day. (For example, only 50 mg of Trazodone gave me the BIGGEST hangover, plus it didn't even really help me fall asleep!)

If anybody has any natural or non-prescription suggestions, I'd love to try those as well. Of course, I cut off caffeine early -- about 2-3 PM, which is about the earliest I can do while still keeping my sanity. (Eventually, I'd like to cut it out completely. I'm down to one Diet Dr Pepper a day. I'll probably start to cut it out completely as soon as school is over.) Tylenol Simply Sleep is a no-go -- no effect unless I take 4-5, which is probably not the safest idea. Perhaps I should try Benadryl, since my problem is just getting to sleep in the first place and not staying asleep? I've been drinking Sleepytime Tea, which hasn't been helping, but I could try drinking a cup earlier in the night, then one a little bit later when I take my meds. Melatonin seems to exacerbate my depression (which apparently isn't uncommon), but are there any other supplements that anybody could suggest?

I know that all y'all know how frustrating this can be, so I'm hoping somebody else here has found their solution to insomnia. I know that in all likeliness, mine will never completely go away. I had it as a baby, as did my mom, and her dad, who still suffer from it. All I want is to get it under control a little more, as I feel it's exacerbating my existing mental illnesses. I'm also beginning to be really agitated and rude towards people, and it's becoming really obvious. My mom asked me why I was always so angry with her! It broke my heart! Besides that, it's just plain frustrating, and I'm pretty sure it is going to lead me to kill somebody sometime soon!!!

[dancesintherain]

so you've tried most of the drugs that I can think of...other than maybe trying some of the other more-sedating AAPs (Risperidone is one that I use). but if Seroquel made you out of it, I might be wary of that. You said neither Trazadone nor Ambien worked at all, right? And that was at any dose that's prescribable?

Amitryptaline (TCA) is known to be sleep inducing and Remeron at lower doses is usually good for sleep as well. Remeron worked for me for a while.

Other things can include playing around w/ the room temperature a little bit (having it cooler tells your body that you're going to sleep for most people) and lighting (people are all over the board w/ respect to this one).

One really helpful change would be to find something that gets you up in the morning...I know you said your alarm clock isn't working, so I assume you're looking for one that is? My hope would be that the earlier you're awake, the earlier you'll be able to fall asleep.

[daisy]

so you've tried most of the drugs that I can think of...other than maybe trying some of the other more-sedating AAPs (Risperidone is one that I use). but if Seroquel made you out of it, I might be wary of that. You said neither Trazadone nor Ambien worked at all, right? And that was at any dose that's prescribable?

Amitryptaline (TCA) is known to be sleep inducing and Remeron at lower doses is usually good for sleep as well. Remeron worked for me for a while.

Other things can include playing around w/ the room temperature a little bit (having it cooler tells your body that you're going to sleep for most people) and lighting (people are all over the board w/ respect to this one).

One really helpful change would be to find something that gets you up in the morning...I know you said your alarm clock isn't working, so I assume you're looking for one that is? My hope would be that the earlier you're awake, the earlier you'll be able to fall asleep.

Ambien doesn't work at any dose, unfortunately. Sadly, I've been so desperate I've taken more than the highest dosage, so it's a no-go. It also makes me do some strange things, even at the lowest dosage... I have a lot of interesting conversations that I don't remember the next day and eat some VERY strange foods... nothing like sleep-driving, but concerning to me nevertheless. Trazadone at higher dosages DOES put me to sleep, but it knocks me out for longer than I'm knocked out now, plus it adds migraines in the mix. That's too bad, as it would be a good one at a higher dosage. But that medicine REALLY knocks me out. I couldn't even handle the 50 mg for some reason. (How does it not help me fall asleep but makes me stay asleep for 14+ hours????)

I'll try cooling down the temperature. And I have been trying to work on the light thing, since I know that is a big problem for me.

I'll ask about Remeron. I knew it was sedating, but for some reason, I never thought about it for sleep! Weight gain is the only side effect that I can't handle, as it depresses me, then makes me isolate myself, which makes me more depressed, but perhaps at a low dose, the weight gain would be minimal. I can handle 5-10 pounds, as much as I hate the thought. (I recently went from about 170lbs -- mostly caused by the Seroquel -- to about 115-120 lbs, and I hate to gain it back.) I'll have to look up Amitryptaline, as I've never heard of it! Thanks for the suggestions!

My alarms are actually as probably as loud as they can get, so I probably won't be looking for a new one. After all, I haven't had a problem with hearing them until recently. My alarm worked today, though! I set an alarm on my phone for every 5 minutes from 9:00-10:30. So not only did 18 alarms go off, but they all went off on snooze every 9 minutes. I got up at 10:45, so as annoying as it was, it worked!

[withing]

I've had my rounds with insomnia... I take seroquel now, but it doesn't really make me sleep anymore. It helps me stay asleep when I do sleep, but it doesn't knock me out. I can stay awake for hours until that happens.

Anyway, the mayo clinic has some tips that really do work (for me). And the national sleep foundation is a good resource as well.

It's surprising how well these hints worked for me. I hope they help.

[tryp]

Remeron apparently works for sleep at a very low dose, like half a pill (7.5 mg).

I took it as a combined AD/sleep aid with mixed results, but since you've tried pretty much everything else, you might as well give it a go.

Rozerem also comes to mind as an alternative to the Ambien/Sonata group, but as it hits melatonin receptors, it might have the same effect on you.

Alternatively, you could try a different benzo. I used Ativan for a while with pretty good results, and Klonopin is also a possibility, especially if you're having trouble staying asleep.

Since you pinpoint anxious thoughts as the problem, it might be a plan to stick with the benzos, or at least try a couple more.

[jillista]

I'm so sorry that you're having such a hard time. I know how maddening it is. I can throw in some experience that I have ...

Remeron did help me a lot with falling asleep, but I did gain weight. However, I gained weight because I was craving carbs and eating them rather than re-directing myself. If you are conscious of the possibility and prepared to monitor how much you're eating, I think the weight gain could be avoided. I went on it while in the hospital, so I wasn't at all active - I gained weight partially because I didn't make a plan for going on a medication that I knew could have that side effect.

As for the environmental things, I have a strict set of rules about how my bedroom has to be that have helped me get better sleep. I sleep with a fan on, which helps to lower the temperature and also gives me some white noise. I have figured out which pillows, blankets, sheets, etc, are most comfortable for me so that I'm not distracted by how I feel lying in bed. Also, I use a mask for my eyes - it shuts out the light, which helps a ton. I have bought various masks, and liked some of them better than others, but my old stand-by is actually just a bandana that I tie around my head.

I also have had some success with hypnosis. I did a google search for hypnosis downloads and play them before bed sometimes. It's really more of a guided relaxation than real hypnosis, but it helps me turn off my brain.

I hope that you find some relief!

[water]

Remeron apparently works for sleep at a very low dose, like half a pill (7.5 mg).

Daisy, I hope you have found sleep solace. I am also having a tough time falling asleep though not from anxiety as usual, just a racing, active mind. I think it is a side effect of Lexapro.

I am interested in trying this low dose of Remeron, but I was wondering if you can take it on an as needed basis or if you need to take it every night?

Thanks!

[olga]

A couple of things that have helped me to have consistently good sleep are:

1) An uncluttered bedroom with no TV and no other distractions

2) Quiet

3) Yoga in terms of the meditation/relaxation part. There are also some postures that make you sleepy, which used to put me right out.

4) A warm bath and a dull book

Good sleep is essential to mental health. I hope all of you can achieve it someday because it really helps you to cope with the daytime stuff if you are rested.

olga

[lysergia]

i'm sorry you're having so much trouble sleeping. it sounds terrible.

i react totally opposite to what is common sense about getting good sleep. it takes me four times as long to fall asleep in silence. my daughter is the same way (though that could be learned). every night i cue up three or four light/funny television shows as i'm going to bed. every time i catch myself entertaining an unpleasant train of thought that's keeping me awake, i refocus my attention to whatever's being said on tv (i don't watch, just listen). it has to be shows i pretty much know by heart or i'll stay awake to finish them.

having a window partially open to have a sensation of "breeze" helps but i don't know why. temperature makes a huge difference but airflow helps too.

i also fall asleep (and stay asleep) much better if i've eaten something kinda groggy-making (like not full of sugar) (but not too greasy, that's just nauseating). that could be because i eat sporadically during the day though. nevertheless your eating patterns might make a difference.

hope something in these responses helps. it must be awful not to have decent sleep meds at your disposal.

[withing]

i'm sorry you're having so much trouble sleeping. it sounds terrible.

i react totally opposite to what is common sense about getting good sleep. it takes me four times as long to fall asleep in silence. my daughter is the same way (though that could be learned). every night i cue up three or four light/funny television shows as i'm going to bed. every time i catch myself entertaining an unpleasant train of thought that's keeping me awake, i refocus my attention to whatever's being said on tv (i don't watch, just listen). it has to be shows i pretty much know by heart or i'll stay awake to finish them.

There's a huge difference between a "quiet" room and a "silent" room. I need music on to fall asleep. I leave the television on in the other room - set to the channel guide because it has constant music (I don't get radio reception here).

having a window partially open to have a sensation of "breeze" helps but i don't know why. temperature makes a huge difference but airflow helps too.

I also leave the window open in the fall and spring or early winter - and my fans are *always* running in this house because my relative has no concept of air control.

i also fall asleep (and stay asleep) much better if i've eaten something kinda groggy-making (like not full of sugar) (but not too greasy, that's just nauseating). that could be because i eat sporadically during the day though. nevertheless your eating patterns might make a difference.

hope something in these responses helps. it must be awful not to have decent sleep meds at your disposal.

I also sleep better if I eat some empty calories... but that makes my seroquel work better.

[scatty]

I hope you find a way to sleep soon. Amitriptyline helped me sleep like a baby.