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When is Suicide OK?


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Guest Nobody Nowhere

;)

So...been depressed, been not depressed, not terribly depressed right now - just really really tired.  So, when is ok to throw in the towel?  I'm sick of the meds (working, not working, side effects), the therapy, everything.  So, when is ok to throw in the towel? 

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N.N.,

Sorry I can't contribute to a philosophical debate on those merits, now. That dialogue goes through my mind when I am down in the depths, and I can't allow myself to fall.

Here are my rules:  A person who is depressed, under stress, and hurting cannot make an rational decision to off themselves.  A person who is NOT depressed would not reasonably choose to end their life, especially knowing how much hurt it would cause to friends and family. Catch-22.  Therefore, the answer is you are never allowed to off yourself.    ;)

Please do whatever it takes to get yourself out this hole today. Anything that makes yourself feel better and take your mind off your pain is good. 

- Go see a friend

- Call a friend

- Go for a walk

- Take some bread and feed the pigeons and squirrels

- Go to the pet store and look at the animals

If things are really bad, call your therapist, Pdoc, a suicide hotline or go to the ER.

http://www.suicideinfo.org

-Keep coming back to CrazyBoards.

A.M.

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Guest Nobody Nowhere

OK, so here's the thing.  I think things are getting better, then everything sinks back down.  Working on abuse issues - finally "feeling" the feelings (blah blah blah)  and now I can't turn any of it off.  I feel like it's happening all over again, even though I know it's in the past.  Drugs don't seem to be helping.  I'm more depressed now than before - therapist says, it can't be the anti-depressants.  I want to sleep but the insomnia keeps me lying awake staring at the ceiling - when I'm not have night terrors (think I'm awake, can't move, think someone's touching me).  I'm tired and I'm crazed and I really don't know if I want to do anymore.

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Nobody Nowhere -

For what it's worth, here's the paraphrase of the only statement that made sense to me during the many times I've been suicidal:

What you are desperately seeking through suicide is relief from your feelings.  However, you have to be alive to feel relief.  If you're dead, you won't be able to feel the relief you need.

Also, someone on this board has as part of their signature:

Why not give today a chance?  You can always kill yourself tomorrow.

As a terminal procrastinator, that also makes sense to me.  I don't know what else to tell you because I know from the times I've been suicidal, I didn't really feel like talking to anyone.  But there are some good websites that helped me out, which is where I found the bit about not being able to feel relief if you're dead.

One thing I did that helped, if you can force yourself to get dressed and outside somewhere, is to go on a walk/hike until you are absolutely and completely physically exhausted.  Take some water with you if you're in the country and won't be passing any place you could get some, and just go.  It seems that if I can wear my body out, my mind is forced to go to sleep too.  Of course if you're more of an athlete, you could find some stadium stairs to run up and down for a couple of hours or something, but the idea is still the same.

Somehow or another you'll get past this bad patch.  We're all rooting for you.

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Do you have a pdoc? Because whatever antidepressants you're on aren't doing enough, and you need to be able to sleep. Yes, you have to feel the feelings and the really nasty part about PTSD is that to get beyond it you have to go through it. Again. It's always worse before it's better.

Go back to your doctor. Say exactly what you've said in your second post. You need and deserve more help than you are receiving.

I'm sorry it's this hard. And, no, you do not get to throw in the towell. Keep coming here. Camp in your doctor's office until you get some relief.

Greeny

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Depression is a piece of shit that will get its balls cut off and eyes gounged out if it ever messes with me again!

Depression is WORTHLESS, do not let it walk all over you.

All I'm gonna do is offer you advice, not get into a debate about rights and wrongs that may or may not exist.

You will do whatever it takes to beat it.  If you need somewhere to start, just close your eyes and repeat in your head or out loud -

"I will beat this!  I will beat this!  I will beat this!  I will beat this!  I will beat this!"

If you say it enough, it will stick bud - trust me on that one.

After this, you will get yourself the amo to deal with this!  That means drugs if you want them (though some sites would have you banned for saying so), AND therapy (if you are not having luck with it then get BETTER therapy).

And keep posting.  All that I ask is that you stay positive.

You will beat this bud.

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So, when is ok to throw in the towel?

Um, I'm going to have to go with never.  I totally understand being tired of it all.  I was there not too long ago.  It sucks.  The only advice I can give is to be aware of the fact that life is precious.  Not living sucks even more than living.  And you never know what tomorrow may bring.  You might be pleasantly suprised.  Probably not, but you might.  There is only one way to find out.

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I'll have to go with "never."

The stuff that tells you it's OK or a good idea to kill yourself is the depression talking. It's an insidious and constant little voice that sometimes just won't shut up no matte what we do. Eventually, though, it will.

It sounds like your meds aren't doing the things you need right now. Are you seeing a psychiatrist? If not, you definately need one. If you are, you need to be forceful about how little benefit you're getting, or maybe get a new psychiatrist.

Therapy is sometimes about learning and strategies, and sometimes it's about help in getting through the day. I hope you've found someone to help you with this.

Meanwhile, keep writing to us. The depression will pass.

Fiona

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Guest Nobody Nowhere

Thank you all for your kind responses (although I have to admit I was kind of hoping for a "yeah, it's been rough, go ahead and do it").  I called my pdoc, who returned my call within the hour.  He was so kind, it made me cry (as did some of the responses here).  I am so torn - there's a large part of me that knows I can deal with all of this, and have already made a good start (meds, diet, exercise, meditation, therapy, quit abusing substances, quit the bulemia)...then there's the part that just wants to slip back into the mud where it's not so hard. 

I've heard that we all chose our lives before we're born - if that's the case, I'd like someone to slap me soundly upside the head.

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Guest PinkToo2grrl

...then there's the part that just wants to slip back into the mud where it's not so hard. 

yanno what?  the mud sucks more ... it is hard in the mud. 

the mud hurts like a son of a bitch. pain is hard.  pain isnt easy.

pinky

(who's spent her fair share of days in the suck ass whale shit mud)

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So, when is ok to throw in the towel?
When it won't hurt anyone else.

Here's the rub: it always will. Family members, friends, casual aquaintances, people who don't even know you will blame themselves. Yes, their guilt is irrational, but rationality has no claims on this territory. Incessant brooding over "If only I had said/done something different," leaves savage scars.

That's a nasty trip to lay on someone. Don't think for one minute that anyone will understand if you write that perfectly-worded suicide note. They won't. People who don't suffer from depression DO NOT understand the whys & wherefores of suicide. (Remember something: Most people never think about it ever--not even once in their whole lives.)  They will take your suicide personally, as something they could and should have prevented. (And you thought you were crazy.) Even people who have "been there" will be flipped-out. The grief from suicide short-circuits reason in a way that nothing else does.

Arguably, there's nothing wrong with suicide if you live on a deserted island. But if you don't, killing yourself is morally equivalent to slipping everyone around you a hit of bad acid--only the trip is permanent. This applies to people you don't even speak to, who only see you once in a while. Trust me: they get all freaked out, too.

No, it's not fair. People should respect your decision to do whatever you damn well please with your life. But here's the problem and there's no getting around it: People aren't reasonable about suicide and you have no right messing with anyone's head like that.

Sure it sucks. Tell me about it. I figured out a foolproof method, had a suicide note that explained everything. But the moment I started thinking about what the impact would be...what a viscious assault, what a brutal attack on people who don't deserve it and can't do anything once it's done. And how are they supposed to recover?

Notice that none of the above makes any appeal to religion. I'm not even tempted by beliefs regarding supernatural entities. Suicide is gravely wrong because of the harm it causes to others.

...there's a large part of me that knows I can deal with all of this, and have already made a good start (meds, diet, exercise, meditation, therapy, quit abusing substances...

Good for you! For me, it's all about staying away from the #%&* substances (and taking the meds).

(This post probably sounds preachy, but when I'm depressed the last thing I'm worrying about is how others feel.)

 

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I should probably use a moniker based on a novel I finished, but this one makes me feel smart.  :)  

That book had way too many characters for a guy taking Depakote. About 1/2 way through I figured that I don't need a book to feel lost & confused.

And there's another reason you can't kill yourself: then there'd be only four people left who'd read GR.  ;)

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Guest Nobody Nowhere

Today is a wee bit better.  There are times when I want to sit down on the curb, put my head in my arms and just cry like a little kid...it seems that overwhelming.  I appreciate this board and all of the feedback.  You guys really rock.

K.K. - it's a whale of a book without drugs (well, maybe a little LSD would help).

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hey sweets....well to answer your question...i'll say it like my hubby said it to me."you can't check out...you've gotta stick around n suffer like the rest of us!" i find it funny now but he was right n i'm glad he cared enough to put it to me straight. n i for one think you're someone somewhere n i care if you "check out"!!!!

don't get me wrong i still think about it sometimes but i keep in mind that statement n make it work for me.

good luck hon ;)

good thoughts goin' your way

flutterfly

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It's true.  It's a nasty trip to put on others.  Do it and you'll leave a legacy of suicides, especially if you have family.  It can be terribly infectious (sp?)

One of my closest friends had his mother commit suicide when he was 15.  She did it because her children were being sexually abused (raped is a more appropriate word) by her sick bastard alcholic husband.  I suppose she could handle being raped by him herself, but not being able to protect her five children from the monster was too much to bear.

The night before she did it, she took my friend aside, and told her she loved him, and that he needed to follow his dreams, whatever they may be. 

The next morning she was dead.  No emotion from his father, who was the one that found her.

She didn't bother to take her own advice, so how could she expect him to?  He needed her terribly to be there for him, and she abandoned him.  He's never understood how she could do that.  Since then, he has attempted to commit suicide 15 times.  Every time he was found after he had taken the steps necessary, and someone rushed him to the hospital.  Not a day goes by that he doesn't contemplate it.

It's a tragic legacy to leave behind.

J.

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Guest Vapourware

Here is an idea of the aftermath of a suicide.

Here is a personal account of the aftermath.

Although, it all depends on how much you care about other people's feelings right now. On the flipside, you could say that you don't care because you won't be around to know - or deal with - the emotional upheavals that will follow.

That being said, I do not condone suicide.

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